Bubastis pits Seeing-Eye Dogs; Confirms Asshole Status

[bubastis]

Oh, this won’t go down well.
First, let me state that this is NOT an attention seeking troll post designed to generate a trainwreck thread. I’m not trying to be an asshole: that just comes naturally.

I’m not even that angry, or pissed off, or even passionate about this subject, I’m just going to say my piece, and see if anyone agrees with me or not. I know that lots of people will call me out as an insensitive, fascist, despicable shitheel bastard, well, hey. I’ll just say my piece, maybe in an hours time I’ll be emailing a mod begging them to close this thread before too many people read it… That’s if I’m not banned immediatley. Here goes.

I was out for lunch, and a blind man and his seeing-eye dog came into the restaurant. They took a seat beside me. The dog, a huge German Shepard, sat obiediently by his masters side, eye level with my table, panting like a… well, a dog. He kept panting, right in the direction of my table, all over the food. I thought to myself, They shouldnt let dogs into restaurants. AT ALL.

Most places have a “NO DOGS, EXCEPT GUIDE DOGS” policy… fair enough. But how hygenic is it to have dogs, of any kind, in a restaurant? Could a waiter or waitress not escort blind people to their tables, and leave the dog tied up? Just a thought. I’m sure it wouldnt be too much trouble; unless the restaurant suddenly happens to be innundated with blind people. What if ten blind people show up, all with guide dogs? What, are guide dogs cleaner than normal dogs?

OK, let me save you guys a few posts:

“You’re giving out about a dog sitting beside you in a restaurant? How would you like to be blind, you fucking jerk!!”

“I wish the OP would put himself into the shoes of a blind man for a while… the independence he has since he got his seeing-eye dog, restricted so that some asshole can eat his dinner without the discomfort of having a dog in his presence. After the OP puts himself in this position, maybe he can put himself in front of a bus, the asshole!”

“So a dog breathes on your plate. What are you afraid of? Rabies? Typical ignorance from a trolling asshole.”

“Hey bubastis, you knew this thread was a bad idea? How about not posting it? Fuckhead.”

I deserve it all. But maybe… maybe I have a point? Of course I have sympathy for the blind, and NO this is not like the “sympathy” i had for the obese a while back. I think that it’s wonderful that a blind person can live so free and independant thanks to seeing-eye dogs. But should they be allowed to take these dogs into restaurants or food preparation areas? I’m just asking… I’m not starting a petition or anything.

[Crotalus]

What harm do you think the dog’s presence could cause for you?

[JohnT]

Did the bastard buy anything for his poor dog?

Betcha didn’t see that one coming.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Food preparation areas? No way. But restaurant dining areas? Sure. It’s not like you’re eating off the floor, and the animal is by its very nature well behaved, compliant, and thoroughly trained.

It’s really not a big deal, and for the mobility they afford blind people it’s quite reasonable.

[SisterCoyote]

Shepherds are large animals, very intelligent, and without the best breath in the world.

As the rant is about the dog breathing on your food (and I doubt anything is spread that way but don’t know for sure), I will agree with you in a fashion. The dog should probably have been put on a down stay, rather than a sit stay.

On the other hand, given the size of the restaurant and the implied distance between the tables, it’s possible that s/he couldn’t lie down without being in the way of the wait staff and other patrons.

[Miller]

I don’t think hygeine is too much of a concern. Millions of people have dogs in their homes, including the kitchen, and we aren’t all keeling over of canine food poisoning. Naturally, restaurants have restrictions about this sort of thing, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with bending the rules for the (very few in number) guide dogs, to make things easier for blind patrons. The real issue with pets in a restaurant would be behavior concerns. You don’t want dogs growling at the other customers, stealing food off the tables, or widdling on the servers. Guide dogs are, by their nature, very well trained, and there’s no worry about that sort of thing happening with them. You don’t have that sort of guarantee with your average dog-off-the-street, so they aren’t allowed.

[bubastis]

Again, I’m sorry for my ignorance. I’m not sure if anything can be spread by a dog panting directly onto a plate… Probably nothing, but given the option betweem dog breathing on plate and no dog breathing on plate, I’ll take no dog, thank you. It was a very small restaurant, yes, so the dog was in the way pretty much wherever he sat. And yes, his breath did stink.

[Syntropy]

Yeah, but it’s not like the guy saw you sitting there, or saw his dog panting on your plate. You could’ve said something. Or moved. Right?

[Elza_B]

@Maureen

Yeah, but it’s not like the guy saw you sitting there, or saw his dog panting on your plate. You could’ve said something. Or moved. Right?

But that wouldn’t make for a very good Pit thread, would it? :rolleyes:

Don’t be a pansy. Speak up next time, for pete’s sake.

E.

[lno]

Just some possibly relevant quotes from the a US Department of Justice FAQ entitled COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT SERVICE ANIMALS IN PLACES OF BUSINESS

Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?

A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.

This means that the food preparation area of a restaurant is off-limits. This also means that the individual and the service animal are allowed into the regular seating area of the restaurant. When eating out with a service animal, I’ve found it convenient to have a table in the corner or against a wall if possible; quite often our server has never known there was a service dog under the table.

Q: Can I exclude an animal that doesn’t really seem dangerous but is disruptive to my business?

A: There may be a few circumstances when a public accommodation is not required to accommodate a service animal–that is, when doing so would result in a fundamental alteration to the nature of the business. Generally, this is not likely to occur in restaurants, hotels, retail stores, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities. But when it does, for example, when a dog barks during a movie, the animal can be excluded.

The key here is a ‘fundamental alteration to the nature of the business’. A quiet dog in a movie theater doesn’t alter the experience; a barking dog does.

[Guinastasia]

@bubastis

Again, I’m sorry for my ignorance. I’m not sure if anything can be spread by a dog panting directly onto a plate… Probably nothing, but given the option betweem dog breathing on plate and no dog breathing on plate, I’ll take no dog, thank you. It was a very small restaurant, yes, so the dog was in the way pretty much wherever he sat. And yes, his breath did stink.

From what I’ve read, dogs’ mouths aren’t much worse than humans’.

[Anaamika]

I just want to answer this part:

@bubastic

Could a waiter or waitress not escort blind people to their tables, and leave the dog tied up?

From what I understand, it’s a trust issue. It took a long time for that blind person and that dog to trust each other. And most of us seeing people just don’t know how to guide a blind person. We tend to grab them, or their upper arm, and most blind people I’ve asked would rather hold on to you. So now you have the issue of training all these waiters/waitresses, and then the turnover, too. And on top of it all, it’s still just someone you just met, and have no earthly reason to trust.

Why do they need to trust, you might say? There’s no danger in the restaurant…
Which brings me to my second point…independence. Many blind people have worked damn hard for that independence. They’ve got their dog, who is truly their best friend; they don’t need anyone else to guide them around.

Me, I’d prefer dogs to some slovenly people I know. And if this is the cost for blind people to be able to be happy functioning people in our society then to me it’s no cost at all.

[Voyager]

@JohnT

Did the bastard buy anything for his poor dog?

I know that’s a joke (a poor one ) but guide dogs are never hand fed, and are never given food off the table. They are not trained with food, and if they are ever given food outside of their normal food times, it has to be put in the food dish. The reason for this is so that guide dogs can be brought into restaurants without making a nuisance of themselves.

We’ve brought our puppies in training into lots of restaurants with never a problem. We took them to the grocery store also - only problem there is that shopping takes longer because everyone wants to ask questions, and our latest one had to get loved by her many fans.

bubastis, why do you think a blind person would want to be separated from his friend, the dog he depends on for mobility? Guide dogs are valuable - what if someone stole his when it was tied up? I agree with Maureen, you should have asked to be moved if it was a problem for you. Me. I’ve been a lot closer to than that to guide dog breath, with no ill effects.

[Fish]

@Miller

I don’t think hygeine is too much of a concern.

It might be for me. I’m a transplant patient, and immunosuppressed. Doctors advise me not to own any pets, especially cold-blooded ones; and to wash thoroughly after petting or touching anybody else’s pet. Maybe the risk of dog breath is small, but it’s not non-zero.

For what it’s worth, I don’t have a problem with pets. It’s a safe bet that the hygiene is okay, but you’re not the one who has to make that bet — I am.

[Syntropy]

Again; then you open your mouth and say something.
“I’m sorry, but I’m a transplant patient, and your dog is breathing on my plate. Could I ask you to move him to the other side of your table?” Is not rude.

[Zsofia]

Ever been to France?

If this bothers you, don’t go to France.

[Larry_Mudd]

I absolutely hate people who bring pets into eateries, and they invariably get maximum stinkeye from me, and I don’t hesitate to cuss them out if their animal interferes with me at all, and suggest to management that they ought to be more assertive about keeping people from bringing their pets in.

Actual service animals, I’ve never had a problem with, because they’re trained so well to be unobtrusive. I have a hard time imagining a dog at the next table breathing in such a way to present any sort of threat to your food. (Usually guide dogs in restaurants are right down on the floor in a compact “rest” position until they’re required to get back to work.)

If the dog was very close to your table, and sitting up, I don’t understand how it was allowed to remain a problem. The other patron was blind, not deaf, right? He couldn’t be expected to divine that his dog was annoying you, and I don’t think that many people would be unreasonable about a polite request to get the dog to lie down or adjust his position to remedy the situation. Just the tiniest effort of communication would have set things right immediately – a much more practical solution than barring guide dogs from restaurants.

[GaryM]

Don’t plan any trips to Germany, Belgium, or the Netherlands either.

And these aren’t service dogs either.

[PoorYorick]

@Larry Mudd

Just the tiniest effort of communication would have set things right immediately – a much more practical solution than barring guide dogs from restaurants.

A friend of mine who’s blind and has a guide dog wouldn’t have a bit of a problem if I said, “Excuse me, your dog’s breathing on my food.” She’d apologize, nudge the dog over, and that would be that. On the other hand, she doesn’t have a defensive bone in her body, so your mileage may vary.

Why are people afraid to strike up a conversation with blind people? Because there’s no eye contact? I don’t know.

[Guinastasia]

Hell, you’re probably getting more germs from your fountain drink than the dog.