Anyone who owns these dog breeds currently or a long time ago?
Akita, Staffordshire bull terrier, Rhodesian Ridgeback and bullmastiff?
Shiloh Shepherds?
Well, I am looking for a large dog breed that is trainable and make a good watchdog. I am willing to do the research but I would like some opinions on these breeds.
You’re not picking the most ‘trainable’ breeds. (never heard of a ‘Shiloh Shepherd’, though).
As a rule, the most intelligent, most trainable dogs come from the herding dogs, the retrievers, and other working dogs. So if you want a large trainable dog, consider a German Shepherd, a Lab, a Golden Retriever, etc.
Why do you need a very big dog? Big dogs can be difficult to keep. If you have a farm, great. If you live in the city and the dog will be in the house all the time, you might reconsider. I’ve had big dogs and smaller ones. A really big dog can be a disaster in the house. Wagging tails sweep things off of coffee tables. If the dog gets destructive, he can do a lot of damage. Food costs are higher, and it’s harder to travel with the dog.
I say this because you seem to not be sure of what you want, just that it be ‘big’. If what you want is home protection, size doesn’t really matter. The mere existence of a dog in a house is a great deterrent, and even a medium size dog can be plenty intimidating when it’s snarling at you. Most burglars will go right by a house if they know there’s a dog of any sort there. They don’t need the hassle of the barking waking the neighbors, the danger of being bitten, etc. There’s easier pickings.
I agree about them not being the most trainable. But all will be wonderful watchdogs. All will turn out to be good dogs if raised right. The ridgeback will need LOTS of time and effort.
Are you sure a Staffy would make a good watchdog? The ones I lived with would probably happily run up to anyone breaking into the house, tails wagging, expecting petting. On the other hand, bull terriers have a reputation for being vicious so they would probably be a great deterrent.
Staffies are not known for their intelligence and trainability…I read a book (I think called “The Intelligence of Dogs”) which ranked them #80 or so in intelligence among dog breeds.
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier I’m familiar with is the English Staffy, and they’re little dogs, less than knee height abeit built like fire plugs. Pretty woeful watch dogs normally, they’re too people friendly. Very energetic and bouncy, since they’re terriers, can be stubborn to train and can be dog aggressive. The bull breeds often don’t make good watch dogs, they’re more likely to point out where you keep the silver and go back to a nice nap.
Ridgebacks and Bullmastiffs would possibly fit your criteria, but they’re very different dogs. The mastiff breeds can be stubborn to train, because they’re giant breeds they prone to a range of health problems, they aren’t long lived and they drool. Did I mention drool?
Hounds have their own issues with training, they’re often not good off lead and need a fair bit of exercise.
I don’t know a great deal about Akitas, except that they can be very dog aggressive and hard-headed and are really dogs for experienced owners with a real understanding of the breed.
My understanding of Shiloh Shepherds is that they are simply German Shepherds bred for size, and don’t have an official breed standard. I’d be really worried about health issues and temperament.
If your criteria is a reasonable sized dog who is both easy to train and likely to be decent watch dog, as Sam Stone suggested, look at the working dogs, I think a Australian Cattle Dog is about the best all-round dog you can get, closely followed by a good German Shepherd. Dobes or Rotties would fulfil your criteria as well.
The thing to remember about smart dogs is that while they’re easy to train, they need lots of mental stimulation, lots of exercise and a lot of committment from their owners.
I don’t recall what the general reputation of the Akita as a watchdog might be, but they are not the dog for a beginner. They are very dominance oriented. If you have the experience to keep yourself in charge, they can be very good dogs. If you’re more familiar with a lab or somesuch… they’re more than a bit of a shock. They will continually challenge for the position of alpha, and if they feel they’ve won, they don’t take anything from their owners.
It’s not that they’re bad dogs, just more than most people care to try to handle.
Just out of curiousity, what’s wrong with going with the old standard: The German Shepherd Dog?
My friend had an Akita and it was extremely friendly, but hyper. She was not a very trainable dog.
My nephew has a couple Newfoundlands. They are friendly (though my ex boss had a couple that were not). They’re huge (150 lbs). So if you’re looking for big, they’d be a good prospect.
I’ll second this. They’re very people-friendly, not very bright, and stubborn as mules - so not easy to train. Mine does bark frantically at anyone approaching the house, though, which is a useful deterent, and I have no doubt she’d die protecting me if it came to it, bless 'er.
The thing about dog breeds is that you can never be CERTAIN you’ll get the qualities you want. Some breeds are more prone to having certain qualities, but dogs vary as much as people do. As an example, I own a pure-bred Jack Russel who is as calm and sweet-natured as a cat, and a Golden Retriever mix who is decidedly unfriendly.
Any dog (except for frou-frou toy breeds) can be a good watch dog. Most theives are looking for an easy dash-and-grab. A house with a barking dog is not attractive as a target, because the thief doesn’t want the neighbors alerted and doesn’t want to worry about getting bit.
The best way to pick a dog is to go visit some litters for sale or for adoption at the pound. Spend some time with the puppies. Take along a handful of small treats and try to teach one of them to sit. Dangle your keys above their heads while giving the command and move them slowly behind their heads. Most puppies will lose their balance and sit automatically. Praise and repeat. After a few tries, give the command without the keys and see which ones of them seem interested in obeying. (Even if they don’t do it right, you’ll be able to tell which ones want to obey and please you by their expressions and body language.)
Next, try the dominance test. Take a puppy and turn it over onto its back, holding it gently in place. The ideal puppy will struggle for a moment and then give up. A dominant puppy won’t give up, but will continue struggling until you release it. A submissive puppy will surrender almost instantly.
Now, submissive and dominant puppies can make great pets, but they require more careful training. A dominant dog will always need a dilligent owner who is careful to always show the dog who’s boss (and will have to be aware of what being the boss means in the dog kindgom-- not always the same as it is in the human world.) The owner of a submissive puppy will have to be more gentle and praise-orientated in training, or the dog can become frightened of them and develop a host of nervous problems like submissive urination.
Give them a little IQ test. Put the treat under a small box or under a towel and see how long it takes for them to figure out how to get it. Next, take a piece of cardboard and make a wall with it, holding a treat on the other side. Don’t let them climb over or try to wiggle under it: see how long it takes them to figure out to go around the wall.
High intelligence isn’t always a positive. Super-smart dogs can be hard to train, because they learn to manipulate you. Low-intelligence dogs can be loving and wonderful pets, but they take a lot of repitition and patience to train. Again, just like dominance, a mid-range dog is probably your best bet if you don’t have a lot of time.
I’ve always preferred mutts to pure-breds. Not only do you get the warm-and-fuzzies by saving a dog’s life, but you don’t start out with expectations of the dog’s behavior (“He’s a Doberman-- he should be doing this!”) which can actually be detrimental to training. Whatever you decide, take your dog as an individual, not expecting that they will have traits just because they’re a certain breed. The chances are higher that they will, but not certain by any means.
My best friend has a Ridgeback named Blanco. This dog is an excellent dog. Not too bright, but very intimidating and has a good throaty bark. I tought him how to sit a few years ago with a couple slices of cheese. He still remembers how. He is a really sweet dog to people though, so I don’t know about him being a protector, but I have seen him take down a huge Rott that was attacking some of his neighbor’s cattle. In the midst of the dog fight, he allowed us dominance and let us pull him away from the Rott, only pulling away when the Rott was going after me for a cheap shot. After about 15 seconds of the dogs fighting, we had to pull Blanco off and shoot the Rott because it had a severed jugular. In the midst of the dog fight, he allowed us dominance and let us pull him away from the Rott, only pulling away when the Rott was going after me for a cheap shot. The cheap shot is why Blanco mortally wounded the Rott.
I dunno, YMMV
Please ignore my double sentance. My copy and past skills only work after 11:00 AM.
:smack:
My wife and I have a Rhody and he is the absolute best pup we have ever had. This behavior TD is talking about it part of the breed. Rhody’s were originally bread to hunt lions, they decend from a blood line of several dogs include the Mastiff - see ->
They are known for feirce allegience to owners and a completely undying urge to please and exercise. **If you are not into walking dogs the Rhody is not for you. **
I say this in all seriousness because the Rhody needs exercise, 3-4 times a day… My wife and I have a large backyard and neighbors who live a fair distance away so our Rhody can run, run, run until his heart is content.
The biggest thing to learn about a rhody is that the are arrogant dogs. They need copious amounts of training or they will dominate the person they are attached to. As for being a good watch Dog, I’d consider them one fo the best. Ours hads a very low growl when he is playing guard dog, and a deep bark when things go awry. But at family picknics and such he stays away from the food table and loves to play with the kids… What else could you ask for?
A friend of mine grew up with a Ridgeback. He was very well behaved, a little hyper but they had a big backyard for him to romp in. Excellent watchdog yet had endless patience for her cats and for children.
Are you looking to get a puppy?
I like the German Shepherd, the Doberman and the Dalmation as guard dogs, myself, but even a terrier or a beagle will be a good deterent to thieves when they are barking loud enough to annoy the heck out of the neighbors. Saint Bernards and Bernese Mountain Dogs are also super guard dogs, but there is a massive amount of hair and drool to deal with.
Bluepitbul I think you are probably going to be a great owner of whatever dog you choose, based on posts I recall from you, so I hope you won’t mind my venting a little here about this.
Too many people get big dogs or dogs with reputations as ‘mean’ for ‘protection’ and then never train them or exercise them. This is both cruel to the dog and dangerous to everybody who comes near it. Only people who want to be responsible owners and caretakers should get a dog and people who only want protection should invest in burgular bars and a good monitored alarm system. It’s cheaper anyway, if you add up the food costs, vet bills, etc…
I used to live with someone who had an English Bullmastiff called Fred.
Absolutely loved that dog - althought they look mighty ferocious, they’re some of the sweetest dogs I have ever met. They’re not the brightest dogs, as mentioned before, and can get carried away (nothing that a ‘deep’ voiced Gentle can’t prevent).
I loved it for the fact that living in the area that we did, people would cross to the other side of the street when walking the dog (and trust me most of the time that was a good thing given the neighbourhood). I’ve never seen Fred attack. It’s my undersatnding that we originally bred to assist forresters. They were trained to corner and intimidate poachers, not to shred them to pieces. Hence why the deep bark…
Though I have to mention the drool - they drool. A lot. If you think you’ve seen drooling, think again.
If I had the space and the time I’d get one in a heartbeat
Bullmastiffs stubborn to train? I don’t think so at all.
They may be slow movers, but they do aim to please.
Euromdguy describes the bullmastiffs I know. I own two English Mastiffs, and have had 3 in my life, and lived next door to a Bullmastiff for 9 years.
They do drool and sometimes snore, but they are not hyper, nor do they need a lot of exercise.
They are ready to play if you are, but never get restless. Very good watch dogs; have never attacked, but definitely show protective attitude.
We lived next door to an Akita for 8 years, and I agree with OtakuLoki that they are not for beginners. That dog obeyed only the male of the couple–and he wasn’t always home.
We used to meet up with a Shiloh Shepherd on our walks, and it was one of the most beautiful dogs I’ve ever seen. His owner stayed away though, she said he was intact and might fight mine. The dog did not really look or act that aggressive, but of course I took his owner’s word for it.
It’s true with dog breeds that you may not get the exact qualities you are hoping for. OTOH, there is a certain amount of predictability–a bit more than with pound puppies.
I’ll never forget the Irish setter mix we thought we brought home from the pound.
She turned out to be, we think, a Vizsla mix. Well, both breeds do retrieve.
We had her for 14 years.
Reviews of Akitas, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and Bullmastiffs.
You increase your chances of getting the qualities you want by getting your dog from a reputable breeder or rescue organization, rather than from someone who casually breeds their dog or breeds to sell puppies for profit. A good, reputable breeder is more likely to choose the parents for both temperament and looks, spend time with the puppies, socialize them properly, and to know what to look for as an indication of future temperament. Some people get lucky with dogs from bad or indifferent breeders, but not all.
I’m getting a Ridgeback puppy this summer. Here are some good sources on the breed to start with:
Rhodesian Ridgeback Club of the United States - breed info section
Ridgeback Rescue of the United States
Good info on picking a Ridgie breeder (if you decide to go that route).
When I finished my preliminary research, I started with a contact from the breed club to start talking to breeders and meeting dogs. I believe most if not all of these people are heavily involved in rescue as well. I considered rescue, but decided a puppy from a reputable breeder is a better choice for me right now.
Ridgies are smart, but not what I’d call traditionally “trainable” - but if I wanted that, I’d get a lab or golden. Part of what appeals to me about the breed is that they are a challenge to train, and have minds of their own.
Just a note that lots of dogs in rescue are not from reputable breeders, though.
But a good rescue organization will have someone fostering the dog, and that person should know something about its temperament from observing and interacting with the dog (unless it’s a young puppy, in which case it is a crapshoot).
Absolutely. I guess I misinterpreted your original comment to mean that a dog from a responsible rescue org has a predictable temperament for the same reason that one from a responsible breeder does, if that makes sense.