There is a glitch in the matrix.. at Homeland Security telling New York to drop dead.

[GIGObuster]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-356751c.html

Feds to city: drop dead

Homeland honcho cuts funds by 40%

BY MICHAEL SAUL in New York and MICHAEL McAULIFF in Washington
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

A new report from the Homeland Security Department deems that New York City has no national icons that deserve special protection from potential terrorist threats.

The city was stunned yesterday to find that its share of federal anti-terror funds was slashed nearly in half by bureaucrats who said it has no national icons to protect and lousy defense plans.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff determined, however, that cities that have never been targeted by Al Qaeda — like Louisville, Atlanta and Omaha — deserve whopping increases.

Waking up.. zzz uh?, oh! Just federal bureaucracy with anti blue state sentiment. The usual..


Wait a moment!?!

These are the same bean counters who think that the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building and Brooklyn Bridge are not national monuments or icons," scoffed Bloomberg spokesman Jordan Barowitz.

A Homeland Security spokesman insisted New York's cut was based on a powerful new matrix that crunches millions of bits of data to figure out where money is most needed.

"We're quite frankly getting highly sophisticated in our ability to analyze threat," said Russ Knocke.

"To error is human, to really mess things up you need a computer"; finding that the errors could be on purpose? I would not be surprised if "errors" like this one are the reason machines revolt in the future.




Morpheus: Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. - The Matrix

[kanicbird]

NYC is the national icon in and of itself. Hell it's the world icon.

[Bricker]

Originally Posted by kanicbird

NYC is the national icon in and of itself. Hell it's the world icon.

Yes, although if it would be possible to carve out Hunt's Point from the zone of protection, I would be willing to entertain that.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Great.

U.N. Headquarters is not a terrorist target.

[friedo]

Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor

Great.

U.N. Headquarters is not a terrorist target.

If there were one thing in this city that deserves to get blown up, it's that.

[Ludovic]

Statue of Liberty isn't a target, because as we all know, it is destined to remain intact until our ape overlords finally take over.

[THespos]

I read about this in Newsday on my way to work, and the first thought that popped into my head was, "Wouldn't I just LOVE to see the little computer program that assigns the same value to Wall Street as it does to the Obsolete Computer Museum?"

Can't you just giggle at the notion of a terrorist strike at the Obsolete Computer Museum? INFIDELS KNEEL! ALL YOUR VT-100s ARE BELONG TO US!!!

[What Exit?]

NYC has so many targets, that it possibly exceeds DC for targets.
The major Subway stations, all the Bridges and Tunnels, the huge water tunnels, Wall Street, The Empire State Building, the UN, The Chrysler Building, the Stadiums, MSG which could also wipe out Penn Station, any of the major Museums. Even Macy's and the Broadway theaters are good terror targets. I am sure I missed many others. Apparently, Homeland Security is just going to be another way to spread pork.

Jim

[silenus]

As much as I dislike NYC and its inhabitants, I have to say that this development just reinforces my feelings about virtually all Federal programs. Jim nailed it...pork. Ham, bacon, sausage....more pork than you can imagine.

No targets in NYC? I think we know what the government is doing with all those intercepted drugs now, don't we?

[Nava]

The March 11 bombs in Madrid caught me and several other Spaniards in the US, for a work meeting.

The talk soon turned to 9-11. Many of the Americans were surprised to find out that I was the only one who'd heard of Liberty Bell (my office in Philly was yards away from it); we've heard of El Alamo but think it's the name of a movie (was John Wayne in it?).

American icons listed by the other Spaniards, only one of whom had ever been outside Spain before, let's see: MacD, the Great Canyon (which doesn't sound like a particularly bombable target), New York (meaning Manhattan), Las Vegas, Times Square, Niagara Falls, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Hollywood sign, the Empire State Building, Marilyn (not Manson), that-other-pretty-skyscraper-what's-it-called (the Chrysler Building), the Twin Towers.

Whadayamean, I've listed NYC six times? I didn't even mention that triangular building! (Flatiron, I think it's called)

[silenus]

As an aside: It seems to me that HS is missing a bet here. Has anybody bothered to do a little discrete polling of non-Americans to identify "American Icons?" Nava raises an interesting point here. What we think is important may not be what other people see as important. Prior to 9/11, I never would have considered the WTC to be an icon, but Al-Qaeda did. It might be wise to figure out just what other people see as a target.

[Giles]

No, you guys just don't get it. Homeland Security knows that those Muss-lims and Ay-rabs read the papers. So they will see that Louisville is a more important target than New York, and put all their efforts into bombing it. When those terr-ists take out Colonel Sander's grave with a dirty bomb, you'll know thatr Home Security was right.

[Ponder Stibbons]

Assuming "MacD" means "McDonald's", I'm not surprised at the list, aside from the absence of the White House. But the point you make is quite valid. Most landmarks recognizable as "America" in other countries are in fact in New York City.

[Waverly]

Get cynical, people. You don't think there is some logic? NYC is in the blue zone. The blue zone is for loading and unloading of democrats. To receive funding, please proceed to the red zone.

[Count Blucher]

Q: Who's burried in Grant's Tomb?

A: Everyone in Manhattan after the next attack.

[5que]

Originally Posted by Giles

No, you guys just don't get it. Homeland Security knows that those Muss-lims and Ay-rabs read the papers. So they will see that Louisville is a more important target than New York, and put all their efforts into bombing it. When those terr-ists take out Colonel Sander's grave with a dirty bomb, you'll know thatr Home Security was right.

Those bastards better not. My Dad's buried in the same cemetery, not too far away from the Colonel. (Which is only fitting, since Dad and Mom grew up in Corbin, and went to the Colonel's chicken place many times.)

[Sal Ammoniac]

Yup, Boston got cut too, by a third.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by Sal Ammoniac

Yup, Boston got cut too, by a third.

Irish and in the blue zone. Double whammy.

Somebody check out Houston.

[Digital Stimulus]

While I agree that NYC's funding should not be cut (and that, say, Omaha doesn't require a whole lot of funding), I got the impression that this is a "bang for the buck" move. In other words, the benefit of upping Omaha's budget is (relatively) large when compared to the detriment of decreasing NYC's budget by the same amount. Put the money where it can do the most good and all.

Again, while I still disagree with the reallocation of funds (and how on earth NYC has no historical landmarks is beyond me), that perspective makes it a little more understandable. Although I actually think political pork is a more likely explanation.

[hawthorne]

I work with very large models that give results for hundreds of thousands of variables. You check the results. When they look odd, you look into them until you understand why. Once in a hundred times you find you have learned something new and interesting. The rest of the time it turns out you fucked up in some new and subtle way. I suspect these guys haven't reached that stage.

[Merijeek]

So...where can one find a complete list of the funding changes between 2005 and 2006?

-Joe

[Encinitas]

San Diego, funding cut in half.

I guess all those Navy ships aren't much of a target.

[UncleBeer]

Two comments.

From the linked article:

But a document obtained by the Daily News that explains what Homeland Security reviewers were looking at in their analysis suggests key data were missing.

For instance, in the category "national monuments and icons," the feds list none.

This, seems to be a pretty large fucking flaw in the DHS "matrix." It needs to be corrected and the allocation analysis run again.

The lowball dollar amount puts at risk the NYPD's plan to build a "ring of steel" of security measures around lower Manhattan — surveillance cameras, computerized license plate readers and vehicle barriers.

On the other hand, this thing needs to be scrapped. The potential for abuse and damage to the rights of free citizens is shocking. Everybody's bitching about Dubya's assualt on the rights of individuals, but those are pretty pale in comparison with this thing. If the DHS cuts mean this system won't be deployed, then I'd say that's a positive effect.

Okay, three comments. Sorry.

Bloomberg said the city wouldn't change its approach. "We're going to continue to do what it takes to keep this city safe and then worry about the money," he said.

If Mayor Bloomberg really means this, that "money is no object," then he's an idiot and should be unelected at the earliest opportunity.

[UncleBeer]

Originally Posted by Encinitas

San Diego, funding cut in half.

I guess all those Navy ships aren't much of a target.

Frankly, the Navy, of all things in San Diego, oughtta be able to provide their own security out of their DOD budget.

Lotsa otherwise rational folks in this thread arguing strongly in favor of government pork. Kinda saddens me.

[Hunter Hawk]

Originally Posted by hawthorne

The rest of the time it turns out you fucked up in some new and subtle way. I suspect these guys haven't reached that stage.

Yeah, they're pretty much still at the "fucking up in the same old obvious way" stage.

[Future Londonite]

Originally Posted by Waverly

Get cynical, people. You don't think there is some logic? NYC is in the blue zone. The blue zone is for loading and unloading of democrats. To receive funding, please proceed to the red zone.

This kinda doesn't hold up since DC got cut by 40% as well.

Yes, DC can't vote and thus is neither Red nor Blue, but it's where 'they' (as in the powerfull Reds) live........

[Otto]

Originally Posted by EuroMDguy

Yes, DC can't vote and thus is neither Red nor Blue, but it's where 'they' (as in the powerfull Reds) live........

Originally Posted by Amendment Twenty-Three, United States Constitution

1. The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint in such manner as the Congress may direct: A number of electors of President and Vice President equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives in Congress to which the District would be entitled if it were a State, but in no event more than the least populous State; they shall be in addition to those appointed by the States, but they shall be considered, for the purposes of the election of President and Vice President, to be electors appointed by a State; and they shall meet in the District and perform such duties as provided by the twelfth article of amendment.

Ratified in 1961. Maybe you've been busy.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by UncleBeer

...
If Mayor Bloomberg really means this, that "money is no object," then he's an idiot and should be unelected at the earliest opportunity.

I think (and hope) you misinterpreted what he said. He has been a very good mayor and is a financial genius as a self-made Billionaire. He is the Bloomberg of the Bloomberg Report. I would guess he meant, they would spend what was required and find a way to pay for it. I would not ever believe him capable of "money is no object,".

Jim

[UncleBeer]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

I think (and hope) you misinterpreted what he said. He has been a very good mayor and is a financial genius as a self-made Billionaire. He is the Bloomberg of the Bloomberg Report. I would guess he meant, they would spend what was required and find a way to pay for it. I would not ever believe him capable of "money is no object,".

Jim

I agree. At least with the fiscal responsibility portion of what was said. It does seem oddly out of character from a guy who's made such a pile of money as Bloomberg has. Perhaps the news story has taken his remarks out of context.

On the other hand, to me, Bloomberg's assault on the rights of gun owners, and utter refusal to abide the duly enacted federal legislation protecting the gun industry from "junk lawsuits" is reason enough to call for his immediate unelection. He insists on persuing a court case - and wasting buckets of NYC taxpayer dollars - on a doomed lawsuit. But that ain't got anything to do with this thread, so forget I said it.

[Capa84]

Uhh...the article at the bottom wants to imply that Jacksonville has no targets, except for Alltel
stadium...

How bout NAS Mayport, home of an aircraft carrier? How about one of the fastest growing deep water seaports on the east coast? Besides the large current military presence, there is also an old NAS that is probably going to be converted into a spaceport as well

[Cheesesteak]

Sounds to me like all Bloomberg meant was that the security plan was not based on the federal funding amount, but on the needs of the city. As opposed to saying that X Y and Z could safely be scrapped since someone else wasn't paying for it. Take away the federal money, he still wants to beef up security, and will try and figure out a way to pay for it.

I wonder how many of the cities with big increases will have to try and figure out how to spend it.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by UncleBeer

I agree. At least with the fiscal responsibility portion of what was said. It does seem oddly out of character from a guy who's made such a pile of money as Bloomberg has. Perhaps the news story has taken his remarks out of context.

His remarks are quoted make perfect sense. Would you rather he invent a need based on the level of funding, or evaluate the need first, and then work on getting the money to meet the need. The security needs of New York remain unchanged even if the morons at DHS decide to send the money to Omaha. And getting the money for a critical need is a far cry from "money is no object" so you're putting words in his mouth.

My understanding of pork is that it is money for low priority items that is politcally driven. Lots of money to meet terrorist threats to Omaha is pork, not money for actual threats to San Diego or New York.

[Excalibre]

So, if I missed it I apologize, but has anyone posted the raw dollar values? Because these percentages are sort of meaningless without knowing what the original amounts were. It seems to me that doubling or even tripling the amount of Homeland Security funding that Omaha is receiving is probably small potatoes, since I doubt they're receiving even remotely as much money as most of the bigger cities facing cuts.

Originally Posted by silenus

As much as I dislike NYC and its inhabitants, I have to say that this development just reinforces my feelings about virtually all Federal programs. Jim nailed it...pork. Ham, bacon, sausage....more pork than you can imagine.

No targets in NYC? I think we know what the government is doing with all those intercepted drugs now, don't we?

You dislike everyone who lives in New York?

What an exceptionally moronic thing to say. I'll try to charitably assume that it's an abberration.

Originally Posted by UncleBeer

Lotsa otherwise rational folks in this thread arguing strongly in favor of government pork. Kinda saddens me.

It's not inherently irrational not to share your political opinions.

I agree with you, though, that those plans for "security" sound a lot like they involve substantial violations of people's liberties.

[UncleBeer]

Originally Posted by Voyager

His remarks are quoted make perfect sense. Would you rather he invent a need based on the level of funding, or evaluate the need first, and then work on getting the money to meet the need. The security needs of New York remain unchanged even if the morons at DHS decide to send the money to Omaha.

Not so. Some idea of cost has to be factored in while you're deciding what's "needed." I rather he decided what's affordable at certain levels of funding. "Need," after all is a pretty abstract concept. If lower Manhattan "needs" a bomb-proof bubble installed over it which is permeable only by approved aircraft, boats, land vehicles and pedestrians, and Bloomberg goes ahead and plans to do that while worrying about the cost only after the fact, that would be totally irresponsible.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by EuroMDguy

This kinda doesn't hold up since DC got cut by 40% as well.

Yes, DC can't vote and thus is neither Red nor Blue, but it's where 'they' (as in the powerfull Reds) live........

DC has been disenfranchised!? Ye gods!

I think you will find that the ‘reds’ you mention don’t consider it home, and it if DC *were* allowed to vote, it’d vote blue.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Excalibre

You dislike everyone who lives in New York?

What an exceptionally moronic thing to say. I'll try to charitably assume that it's an abberration.

Probably not all of them. Just the ones I've met or listened to.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by UncleBeer

On the other hand, to me, Bloomberg's assault on the rights of gun owners, and utter refusal to abide the duly enacted federal legislation protecting the gun industry from "junk lawsuits" is reason enough to call for his immediate unelection. He insists on persuing a court case - and wasting buckets of NYC taxpayer dollars - on a doomed lawsuit. But that ain't got anything to do with this thread, so forget I said it.

I’ll forget it in a moment, after I point out the myopia. Look, I support gun hobbyists within reason. You want to use firearms responsibly? Have at it. But of all the damned stupid things to put undue emphasis on… Matching trade and budget deficits, crumbling Medicare and Social Security plans, and you worry about a slippery slope scenario whereby gun lawsuits eventually lead to a curtailing of your 2nd amendment rights? Get some fucking perspective.

[UncleBeer]

Originally Posted by Waverly

I’ll forget it in a moment, after I point out the myopia. Look, I support gun hobbyists within reason. You want to use firearms responsibly? Have at it. But of all the damned stupid things to put undue emphasis on… Matching trade and budget deficits, crumbling Medicare and Social Security plans, and you worry about a slippery slope scenario whereby gun lawsuits eventually lead to a curtailing of your 2nd amendment rights? Get some fucking perspective.

How many of those things you listed as concerns greater than the rights guaranteed by the second amendment are within Bloomberg's purview? He's got a budget to worry about, of course, but Medicare and Social Security are federal programs. And I don't think Bloomberg's charter as mayor of NYC says much about the nation's balance of trade either.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Waverly

NYC is in the blue zone. The blue zone is for loading and unloading of democrats. To receive funding, please proceed to the red zone.

Look, Waverly, don't start with your blue zone shit. We both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.

Hey silenus: Fuck Youse!

Back to the topic at hand, this funding has never made any sense, and it does confirm a lot of my worst fears about the government's incompetence and dedication to stupidity. (And I have to say, I have an awful lot of those.) I'm glad that every inch of Wyoming has the funds to be as secure as dozens of places in New York need to be.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Look, Waverly, don't start with your blue zone shit. We both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion

No, I want you to smoke pot, join Habitat for Humanity (or just Habitat, for those in the know), and fellate illegal aliens.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by UncleBeer

How many of those things you listed as concerns greater than the rights guaranteed by the second amendment are within Bloomberg's purview? He's got a budget to worry about, of course, but Medicare and Social Security are federal programs. And I don't think Bloomberg's charter as mayor of NYC says much about the nation's balance of trade either.

You are correct. I did list concerns that are [mostly] federal, but NYC is not without similar problems. They have their own budget issues, flat job growth, erosion of the manufacturing sector, and a whole list of socio-economic concerns. Where should guns be ranked?

[JohnBckWLD]

Originally Posted by Waverly

NYC is in the blue zone. The blue zone is for loading and unloading of democrats. To receive funding, please proceed to the red zone.

As a point of uncynical fact; blue cities such as Jersey City, Newark, Atlanta, Chicago and LA all received HS fund increases.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by silenus

Probably not all of them. Just the ones I've met or listened to.

So it is not just us Yankee Fans?

To various people that have mentioned Military bases:
Why does Homeland security dollars need to go to protecting military bases?
The military has a budget and trained personnel to do this already.

Jim

[UncleBeer]

Originally Posted by Waverly

Where should guns be ranked?

Rank 'em wherever the fuck you want. I'll do the same.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by Waverly

I think you will find that the ‘reds’ you mention don’t consider it home, and it if DC *were* allowed to vote, it’d vote blue.

I think you will find that the residents of Washington, D.C. have been allowed to vote in every Presidential election since 1964. They also have an elected mayor and city council (with limited powers since Congress exercises oversight in the district), and they elect a Delegate who attends sessions of the House of Representatives and has the right to participate in debate, but not vote.

They also apparently elect a "shadow Representative" and two "shadow Senators" who appear to be glorified lobbyists for DC statehood.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Waverly

No, I want you to smoke pot, join Habitat for Humanity (or just Habitat, for those in the know), and fellate illegal aliens.

In that case, I have good news...

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by Marley23

In that case, I have good news...

You just saved a bundle on car insurance?

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Count Blucher

You just saved a bundle on car insurance?

If by "saved a bundle on car insurance," you mean that I'm smoking a joint while mailing my membership application to Habitat for Humanity and giving a reacharound to an illegal whose name I think is Jose, then yes!

Next time anybody asks me how far I'll go for a joke, I think I'll send them a link to this.

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by Otto

I think you will find that the residents of Washington, D.C. have been allowed to vote in every Presidential election since 1964. They also have an elected mayor and city council (with limited powers since Congress exercises oversight in the district), and they elect a Delegate who attends sessions of the House of Representatives and has the right to participate in debate, but not vote.

They also apparently elect a "shadow Representative" and two "shadow Senators" who appear to be glorified lobbyists for DC statehood.

Am I being whooshed, or are you?

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by Marley23

If by "saved a bundle on car insurance," you mean that I'm smoking a joint while mailing my membership application to Habitat for Humanity and giving a reacharound to an illegal whose name I think is Jose, then yes!

Next time anybody asks me how far I'll go for a joke, I think I'll send them a link to this.

Aside from being a steep premium, that Gecko's One Sick Bastid!