Dinosaurs and Man?!? TOGETHER???

Great Debates
1

Heeey, TheFonz loves a good debate. He also loves rustling the feathers of the tired old parrots these days who love to repeat everything the mainstream tells them. So here’s a few pictures of ancient artifacts, mosaics, and paintings. Tell me what you think.

The art below is from a Mesopotamian cylinder seal dated at 3300 BC. On the right is a drawing of your lovable long-necked beast.

The January 2003 issue of National Geographic magazine presents an artifact described as a “cosmetic palette . . . from a cemetery of the first dynasties in Manshaat Ezzat.” I’m starting to remember how EVERY culture from around the world talked about dragons…

This is a Roman mosaic from about 200 AD that depicts two long-necked sea dragons.

This is a beautiful mosaic that was one of the wonders of the second century world. The letters above the reptilian animal in question are Greek for KROKODILOPARDALIS which is literally translated Crocodile-Leopard.

Deep in the jungles of Cambodia are ornate temples and palaces from the Khmer civilization. Is that a stegosaurus?

In the 1960’s, a leading jewel designer was commissioned by the University of Pennsylvania to produce replicas of a series of small gold weights obtained in Ghana. So well crafted were they that the animals that they depicted could be instantly identified by zoologists. All but one, that is:

To the right are displayed a slate palette from Hierakonpolis showing the triumph of King Nar-mer:

and another:

In 1496 the Bishop of Carlisle, Richard Bell, was buried in Carlisle Cathedral in the U.K. The tomb is inlaid with brass, with various animals engraved upon it. Amongst the birds, dog, eel, etc. this clear representation of two long-necked creatures is shown:

Then there are of course the countless Ica stones, clay pots, figurines, and whatever else you can think of whose authenticity has been questioned because… come on… humans and dinosaurs?

Could a great catastrophy have occured that swept over the Earth making everything seem much older than it really is. Could this have killed off the dinosaurs like so many other creatures from back in the day?

2

Children today draw pictures of dinosaurs. I don’t think they have seen them in the back yard, however.

OK, slightly more seriously - the serpent motif has been around for… well, forever. No need for catastrophe theory.

3

So when Joe Shuster first drew Superman, it proved the existence of extraterrestrial life?

Kewl.

4

I’d like to see you evilutionists explain this!

5

So what? We know how a dinosaur looks these days because we’ve dug up the bones and pieced them together. Maybe these people spent their time doing that, but I doubt it. EVERYONE from EVERY part of the world seems to know what a sauropod looks like.

6

Now that is impressive… an impressive way to jump the shark. :slight_smile:

That would not be news to Adrienne Mayor, she looked closely at the first fossil hunters of the ancient world, modern research forgot or basically ignored what the ancients made up with prehistoric fossils. She is not the mainstream, but since her ideas and evidence fit, she is beginning to be paid attention.

Check her book The First Fossil Hunters: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times.

Bottom line: serious rebel researches still only find evidence that dinosaurs died out millions of years ago, man came later.

7

It sure did! It proved Jesus IS Superman, and that the asteroid belt is his Krypton. Very insightful, Bryan.

8

Actually, you are remembering no such thing. What you appear to be remembering (in a quite distorted manner) is that as Europeans brought back tales of monsters from the legends and mythologies of other cultures, they imposed European motifs on those creatures. Thus, when the Romans brought tales of the winged, fire-breathing Persian creature that the Greeks had adopted as the drakôn to Northern Europe, later writers confused those tales with the tales of the flightless, venom-spitting Norse wurm and blended the images. Later, the Europeans encountered Chinese tales of great and powerful creatures (Lóng) that could fly (although without the benefit of wings) and discarded the European notion of a rather mindless beast to incorporate the Chinese notion of great and ancient wisdom and called the Chinese creatures “dragons,” even though they were clearly not the same “creatures” and even though the Europeans had to change their own descriptions to make the name fit. Then, when the Europeans encountered the feathered serpents of Meso-America, they decided that Queztlcoatl and his brethren must have been some sort of “dragon,” even though Quetzlcoatl had nothing in common with drakônes, wurmen, Lóng, or any other legendary creatures except a vaguely serpentine shape.

Many (although not all) cultures have stories of serpentine creatures. However, they were variously described as flying or flightless, winged or wingless, scaly, feathered, or incorporeal, wise or possessing only brutish, primitive thought, bearers of wisdom and purity or symbols of evil. Those are far too many contradictions to hang on a belief in some promordial creature of which we have never found a single fossil contemporaneous with humans.

9

Sorry, I need to call for some proof these picture came from where you claim.
I took one at random and the only place it turned up was this lovely site.
http://images.google.com/images?q=manshaatezzat.jpg&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images
http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm
It looks like most of your picture came from here.

I grab a second one. Gee same Site. http://images.google.com/images?svnum=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=pterosaurth.jpg
I will not waste anymore of my time.

I think I am very limited in what I am allowed to call you in this forum so I will just ask for more proof than your very questionable pictures.

Jim

10

Of course. Superman’s Earthly parent is a Jew. It all fits.

11

The answers are there for any who seek.

12

Not that I think it will do any good, but how do you reconcile this theory with a fossil record that does not place dinosaurs and men in the same strata and with various biochemical dating methods that suggest dinosaurs far precede mankind?

13

:rolleyes: Not another of these…

Er, you DO realize that many ancient peoples found dinosaur (and other) bones, right? Hell, both the Chinese and the Greeks used to find them regularly AND display them (though often times they pieced them together in, um, interesting ways).

Maybe you should do somemore research before trying a ‘debate’ like this again…its pretty tired and lame. MAYBE you should educate yourself so at least if you are going to argue an unsupportable position you at least don’t sound TOO lame doing so.

Or, maybe you should just wait until your guest membership runs out and do us all a favor. :slight_smile:

-XT

14

That’s, like, your opinion man.

15

It’s all true. Ancient cultures drew pictures of dinosaurs, so this is irefutable evidence that dinosaurs existed in historical times and evolution is wrong. And what’s more, ancient cultures drew pictures of the Olympians, which is equally irefutable evidence that that Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, and Athena existed and Christianity is wrong.

16

I think that you are treading on thin ice.

So far you have opened one thread to “debate” some bogus physics claims, one silly thread to “debate” whether Ken Lay arranged to fake his own suicide (despite a lack of evidence), and now this thread in which you are using the images taken* (without attributiion) from a Creationist web site and posing them as examples of “depictions of dinosaurs” even though neither you nor the site from which you have “borrowed” them have demonstrated actual provenance showing that the pictures are what you (and they) claim.

  • Although I have not (yet) found a copyright claim on the genesispark website, it appears that you have copied them in violation of standard copyright law, simply to mask their source in your OP. This would be a serious violation of SDMB policy.

I would strongly urge you to restrain your enthusiasm for (what you call) debate.

[ /Moderating ]

17

OK Tom, point taken. The Ken Lay thread and the Electric Sun thread aren’t meant to be silly though, and I’ve kept it fairly serious in those. A rich man escaping the law doesn’t sound silly to me, and I’m serious when I say I want to see a body. The evidence for the electric nature of the Sun is pretty compelling, as well. I don’t want to be a troll, so I’ll let this thread die if you want.

But not before pointing out a few things. The various biochemical testing methods are all inherently flawed for the one reason that they wrongly ASSume that the way our planet is now is the way it’s been for the past umpteen years. There have been various calamities throughout the ages though that can mess with these testing methods, but another time and place I suppose.

I’ll let this thread die off though… Or delete it if you wish. Don’t touch Ken Lay or the Sun, though. I’m Straight Dopin’ it up in those.

18

Reunited… and it feels so good.

19

On that note, you and all are invited to see **TheFonz ** jumping over the pit of [del] despair[/del] the dinosaur:

20

I think this is an excellent time and place. What calamities interfere with biochemical testing methods? What evidence do you have that significant aberrations in dating have occurred as a result of such methods? And why is ancient pottery considered a valid alternative to in your eyes?