Need ammo for the air conditioner fight

[kittenblue]

In this miserable heat we are having, the person who controls the air conditioning in this house is being very conservative in its use. Since she basically stays on the lower level of the house, sitting in a chair right next to a vent (yes, I've closed the vent) she feels comfortable, if not downright cold: she's a woman who believes suffering is good for your soul. The thermostat is set at 80.

Upstairs, we are roasting. Temperatures range from 85 to 95...and that's when the air is on. I've shut as many vents as I can on the lower levels of the house. When she lets us know she's turning on the air, we shut all the windows and turn off the fans. She doesn't always tell us. The thermostat is on the main level of the house, and we are behind a closed door, so the temperature upstairs doesn't really affect the thermostat.

The major problem is at night. She turns the air off because " it's cooler outside at night than during the day" and she opens her bedroom window and runs a fan. But it's not that much cooler at night, and it's still humid. Very humid. Upstairs, we swelter at night. We run an attic fan (huge thing) to try and get some air movement. We open all four windows on three sides of the house. And we each have an oscillating fan blowing directly on us in order to try and sleep. It's still 85 and above, until just before dawn. And humid. Very humid.

So to my logical brain, it would make more sense from an energy use standpoint to just keep the air running all night. The air inside the house is cooler and drier than the outside air, and the unit doesn't have to work as hard to maintain the temperature, and then the house is already cool when the day gets the hottest, so the unit isn't fighting to lower the temperature. I think letting all that warm humid air in at night just makes the unit work that much harder and longer the next day to cool and dehumidify...and then when it finally gets comfortable, she shuts it off again.

To her mind, you should turn the air off at night if there's even only a ten degree difference in the daytime/nighttime temperature, and if you get hot and sweaty and can't sleep, well, then, suffering is character building. If she thinks it will save money, that's what she will do. I think she's wasting money because it just has to work harder the next day.

So which one of us is right? Which way saves money? Because if she is convinced it will save money, she will forego the suffering.

[Green Cymbeline]

I don't know a factual answer to your question, but damn I feel sorry for you! Who is this AC Nazi you live with?

Maybe you could offer to pay any increase in the power bills that goes above the average. Or, can you get a window AC unit?

[Una Persson]

I'm assuming that you're not all at work during the day for some reason, so the house has people in it all day long.

There's actually not enough information to really solve the problem, or else I'm not smart enough to figure out an exact, numerical solution without making a lot of assumptions on things like the heat load of the house, the efficiency of the condenser, etc. I mean, I could figure it out for my house, but then I know an awful lot about my house and its inside and outside environment.

I will say that having it cool and being able to have refreshing sleep is going to have a definite positive health effect, as opposed to sweltering and having poor sleep at night. I'd pitch it from the mental/physical health aspect. Having better sleep will make it easier to deal with the heat during the day (IMO).

[CookingWithGas]

There have been a lot of HVAC threads, but I haven't seen one quite like this where you alternate between A/C and windows wide open. Clearing the humidity does complicate matters. Have a look at my unofficial FAQ for prior threads.

It must be said that your problem is not the A/C, it's the "person" who controls the A/C. Why does she get to be the one in charge?

Does your system have louvers where the ducts come out of the blower to block ducts to different parts of the house? You might be able to block the lower floor and redirect it all to the upper floor.

[Joey P]

I would think explaing to her how much extra work it takes to pull all that humidity out of the house at once might help. Other then that, maybe tell her you've found some mold growth??? As others have asked...Who is this lady? (ie grandparent, friends mom, renter)

[Crafter_Man]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

She turns the air off because " it's cooler outside at night than during the day" and she opens her bedroom window and runs a fan.

This makes no sense to me. The AC is controlled by temperature. If it's too hot in the house, then it's too hot in the house, regardless of what the outdoor temperature is. Yea, opening the windows for a brief period might accelerate the cooling. But if it's still too hot after doing this, close the windows and turn the AC back on.

At any rate... 80? That's too damn hot. IMO do whatever you can to adjust the set point down to at least 74, if not cooler.

[diggleblop]

Having the fan run in the house lowers humidity. There is no way I would allow for someone to tell me I can't have the A/C on in this heat, it's dangerous, icky and downright rude. I would tell her to switch floors for the night, she sleeps in the hotass upstairs and you guys downstairs and switch back in the morning.

[kittenblue]

The hand that rules the AC is the owner of the house, my elderly mother. Due to some recent financial problems, I'm unable to chip in on the electric bill, but even if I could, to her it's a comfort and energy use issue. We can't switch places in the house because she can't cope with the stairs. Even if money were absolutely no issue, she'd think it wasteful to run the air all night...she gets cold. Which to me is silly....there are a thousand blankets, and she sleeps in a nightgown. We're the ones who have to sleep naked, no sheets, with a fan directly on us.

It was so hard to get to sleep last night, and then the attic fan started acting up. It runs on a timer, and I don't know if it is the fan or the timer that's the problem. It shuts itself off, and then starts up again. We were worried about it overheating, so we shut it off. At three am my son couldn't stand it anymore and turned it back on, and there was a definite decrease in the temperature. I finally got to sleep about 4:30.

Mom reads all the articles about saving energy, and they all recommend setting your thermostat higher....so she does. She knows how dangerous this heat can be for seniors, so she isn't gardening this week. She hates to run the air conditioning in her car, too. We had quite a battle to get her to install central air a few years back...all this house had ever had was a small window unit in the livingroom, so she's used to sleeping in the heat. It's a Depression-generation thing, plus fear over horror stories about huge electric bills that fill the news...even though her normal bill is under $100 for a four bedroom, two-story house with full basement. She constantly complains that we use too much electricity in general...she won't turn on the lights at night until it's quite dark. Comfort is not a good argument with her. Safety and energy efficiency and price is.

Yesterday, the electric company called to inform us that there would be planned rolling blackouts in our city over the next few hours. Instead of watching her beloved Jeopardy and Wheel of fortune on the TV, she dug out her portable radio that gets TV sound and listened....in the dark kitchen...and shut the air off. She didn't open the windows because she wanted to keep the cool in until dark. Her explanation was that if the TV or the lights were on when the power went off, then it would be in the "on" position when the power went back on, and if she was already in bed she'd have to get back up and turn things off. She's heard that having the air on when the power is restored creates a load on the transformers, and she doesn't want to be responsible for creating an undue load on the power grid at startup. Other people are just selfish and not thinking of the good of the community if they don't turn everything off in anticipation of the announced blackout....which by the way never happened to our neighborhood. And she apparently missed the part of the phone notification that said this would happen between 6:30 and 8:30, not at random times during the night and early morning.

Our comfort up here, and that of the cats, does not matter to her. As I said, even if I were paying the whole bill, she's more concerned about wasting electricty, and people these days are too pampered and keep their houses (and churches, and stores, and doctor's offices) too cold for her. Only an argument about energy efficiancy will work.

The other morning, she actually turned the air on before leaving for church. We drove separately (don't say it...there are reasons). Before I left, I turned it down to 72 from 80, and called my son the minute church was over to have him turn it back up to 82 before she got home. I know it probably didn't help much, but psychologically it did. She just doesn't get it that even though she may be comfortable, the upstairs needs a little more time to cool down.

[redtail23]

Don't have any help for the A/C problem, but can suggest that you clean the attic fan blades and motor. Get some compressed air and a vacuum cleaner and go to town on that thing.

It's probably overheating, which will cause it to switch off and on like that. The most common cause of overheating is blocked vents and dust in the motor. Cleaning the blades will make it run better, too.

You do have my sympathy...I remember my mom running the A/C gauge all the way to the top (95+), and then switching it off when it came on, because she was working outside anyway. I spent most of my summers at the library, all day every day. They had air conditioning and weren't afraid to use it!

Good luck with your situation.

[JustAnotherGeek]

Arguing with a little old lady? Especially one who raised you and knows better? Good luck. Try to get some documents signed by God himself to use as evidence. (Note: this may or may not even help.)

Originally Posted by kittenblue

Our comfort up here, and that of the cats, does not matter to her.

I just don't know what to say to that. But that is a sad state of affairs. Having dealt with a 90 something grandmother who can be quite selfish and un-empathetic, I feel your frustration.

I don't know if this helps but:

The major problem is at night. She turns the air off because " it's cooler outside at night than during the day" and she opens her bedroom window and runs a fan.

Do you all have any idea what kind of amperage your AC unit draws? Shutting down one central unit and turning on several room units may not be energy efficient, depending on the draw of the individual units.

Also, you are right that the humidity plays a major roll in the work that the AC unit has to do. For instance: when I was on a research cruise this past May, we were running an external "Cold Van" on the main deck of the ship. (We had to keep live samples at the temperature at which we found them - 4C or 40F.) The AC unit on the Cold Van was rated to work up to 95F. It was in the high 80's, and because of the humidity levels (90% relative), the AC unit started to fail, and the temperature inside the van started to rise. We were able to jury-rig something to combat the problem, but the point is that the eneregy required to remove that amount of humidity from the air was greater than even the heavy-duty AC unit could handle.

So, in short, opening the windows and letting humid hot air back into the house will (IMHO) make the AC unit have to work more. Keeping the AC on overnight would (to me) make sense from an energy stand point.

And lastly, I don't know if this would fly - but you could consider actually blocking (e.g. with carboard and duct tape) the vents on the lower level. Force the air to go upstairs and work its way down.

[kittenblue]

Thanks for the advice. My son asked me (at three am) whether I thought he should climb up and vacumm the fan....I said, "not right now"! The thought of sending him up in the attic in this heat is daunting, but he's going to try tonight.

Moving all those little baffles on the ducts in the basement hasn't worked well, so the advice to block the vents with cardboard and duct tape is appealing. I've physically closed the vent flaps at the floor registers in several rooms (the kitchen one that she sits three inches from, and the bathroom one, which is six inches from the toilet when you're sitting there, so she notices that one. I've also closed one of the living room vents (because no one goes in there much) and the sewing room (unless I'm actually in there) so that really only leaves the one in her room fully open. Even with the registers closed, there is plenty of cool air downstairs. There are only three registers upstairs...two ceiling ones, and one floor one that feeds both the boy's bedroom and the bathroom.

If the air is left running long enough it gets cool upsatirs...at least tolerable....but it heats up again so quickly as soon as she shuts it off. I'm going to go into battle with the humidity fight, and see how that holds up.

[VunderBob]

Buy a second AC and put it upstairs.

Mom won't be able to touch it because of the climb, the second floor gets cooled, and the load is taken off of the downstairs unit...

[SnakesCatLady]

Is it just you and your son upstairs? Move into the living room at night. Get an air mattress for your son, and you sleep on the couch in the living room while he camps out on the floor. If your mother complains, tell her it is too hot to sleep up there and this is the only way you and your son will get any rest. Not getting enough sleep isn't going to be good for your son when school starts.

[Joey P]

Can you sneak a dehumidifer up there. It won't cool the area, per se, but it will help dry it out and make it atleast feel cooler.

[Avarie537]

Originally Posted by SnakesCatLady

Is it just you and your son upstairs? Move into the living room at night. Get an air mattress for your son, and you sleep on the couch in the living room while he camps out on the floor. If your mother complains, tell her it is too hot to sleep up there and this is the only way you and your son will get any rest. Not getting enough sleep isn't going to be good for your son when school starts.

This might help draw mom's attention to the problem you are having. Can you make it an either/or? Either she keeps the A/C at a reasonable temp, or you live in the living room?

[redtail23]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

Thanks for the advice. My son asked me (at three am) whether I thought he should climb up and vacumm the fan....I said, "not right now"! The thought of sending him up in the attic in this heat is daunting, but he's going to try tonight.

I recommend early morning, it's usually the coolest part of the day and the attic has had a chance to cool down a bit. Keep an eye on him - it's easy to get overheated yourself up there. Is the attic properly vented? That will also help tremendously in reducing cooling costs, as will good insulation in the attic floor.

Oh, oh, oh, another thought - have him check the ducting while he's up there. Is it possible that the vents for the upstairs are loose, thereby causing less air to the upstairs? Blocking the downstairs vents is also a good idea. It certainly sounds like something is causing a severe imbalance in the system.

I second the moving to the living room to sleep. It makes your point AND you get to sleep comfortably.

[picunurse]

Can you wait until she's asleep and turn it on at night? Close the vent in her room and close her bedroom door. Then try to make her think she forgot to turn it off.

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by Joey P

Can you sneak a dehumidifer up there. It won't cool the area, per se, but it will help dry it out and make it atleast feel cooler.

Depending on humidity level this won't work. If the thing stays on too long it starts blowing hot air (personal experience in a damp basement apartment on a humid evening). Nothing like a loud dehumidifier blowing hot air on a warm night to aid in lack of sleep.

[ratatoskK]

It seems to me that if you have central air, and there's a difference in temperature between upstairs and downstairs (when the A/C is on), then there's a problem with the A/C and you need to get a repair person.

Aside from all the issues about who controls the temp, the window, etc., it sounds like if the upstairs were the same temp as downstairs, you'd be in much better shape than you are now.

[flex727]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

So which one of us is right? Which way saves money? Because if she is convinced it will save money, she will forego the suffering.

Her way saves money, without a doubt. The A/C may "work harder" (i.e. run longer) the next morning, but the sum total is a lot less than if it ran all night.

Summer will be over soon - you'll survive.

[Carnac the Magnificent!]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

It's still 85 and above, until just before dawn. And humid. Very humid.

Huh. AccuWeather shows the low July temps for the Cleveland area to be in the upper 60s to mid 70s. The August forecast for the next several days suggests low temps in the mid 60s to high 70s--nothing close to the 85 degree temps you describe.

You need to better direct the cool outside air into your house. Best of luck.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by redtail23

I recommend early morning, it's usually the coolest part of the day

Or when it's raining, that should drastically reduce the attic temp.

[Stainz]

I would definitely start camping out in the living room. I doubt you're going to convince your Mother to change her mind, no matter how many facts & figures & anecdotes you show her.

If what you want is a more comfortable sleep, go to the lower level at night. Good luck!

[Dorjän]

To be fair, we HAVE been having quite the heat wave here in Cleveland these past couple of days. Daytime temps in the upper mid-90's, night temps in the mid 80's. Fortunately, it's going to coll off over the next couple of days.

That being said, we don't use AC in my house. I couldn't bear the electric bill, especially with the old inefficient window units the previous owner left behind. All of the windows are open, the ceiling fans are on slow rotate, and we have a box fan in the window pumping air in. The humidity, eh, you just live with it! Somehow people survived in the days before AC. And yes, we do sleep upstairs.

[Kyrie Eleison]

Here's a trick I used when I when was a teenager, and faced a similar situation with my parents. Whether it will work for you depends entirely on the specifics of your situation. From what you've given, it seems that at best it will make an intolerable situation slightly less intolerable, but here it is anyway:

In addition to blocking vents in the unused areas of the house, I would always leave my bedroom door open a quarter to a half of an inch. I found that with the door shut, less cool air would would flow through the air conditioning vent due to backpressure. With it fully open, of course, any reserve of cool air would mingle with the warmer air outside of the bedroom. Leaving the door open just a bit, though, would relieve the backpressure, but prevent too much heat exchange through the doorway. Once I discovered this trick, my room was always a few degrees cooler than the rest of the house.

Our house was of 70s construction with high shag carpets everywhere, so rooms were airtight enough that there was enough backpressure to make the effect of relieving it significant.

This won't do much for you during the periods when the air is shut off, but if you're lucky, it might make the days slightly more tolerable.

Oh, and when no one was looking, I would hold a lit Bic lighter under the thermostat. Mom had an uncanny knack for detecting whether someone had moved the controls, but she never wised up to the lighter trick.

[pmwgreen]

A thought occured to me just now. Last year we threw out our 30 year old AC unit and bought a new one. After it was installed, we were told it would take a few days for the temperature in the house to come down. The guys installing it said it would take that long for the heat trapped in the house and furniture to dissipate. This proved to be true and the house became noticibly cooler. Not just the air but the temperature of surfaces declined over the next few days. My point is if you leave the AC on, the cool builds up in the house and after a few days, you don't need to run it all the time. Right now, probably everything in your house is about 80 or so and as soon as the AC is turned off, the air starts to be warmed by all the surfaces radiating heat. The AC never actually cools the house down. Run it all the time for a while, the excess AC isn't wasted because the "coolth" will be stored in the walls.

Otherwise, have you tried sleeping in the basement?

[panache45]

I had the exact same problem with my mother, before she passed away last October. She'd be sitting in the living room, all bundled up and shivering, and I'd be sweating like a pig. I semi-solved the problem by installing a ceiling fan in my bedroom.

Of course, this summer, everything's different.

[drachillix]

Originally Posted by Dorjän

To be fair, we HAVE been having quite the heat wave here in Cleveland these past couple of days. Daytime temps in the upper mid-90's, night temps in the mid 80's. Fortunately, it's going to coll off over the next couple of days.

Whiners...sheesh, we just came off of a run of 110+ every day, the mid 90's we have had the last couple days have seemed cool and refreshing, I didn't run the ac in my truck today at 94 because if felt so nice now that the air rushing by the windows dosen't seem to burn me as it passes.

Mid 90's heh, spoiled kids.

[drachillix]

Originally Posted by pmwgreen

My point is if you leave the AC on, the cool builds up in the house and after a few days, you don't need to run it all the time. Right now, probably everything in your house is about 80 or so and as soon as the AC is turned off, the air starts to be warmed by all the surfaces radiating heat. The AC never actually cools the house down. Run it all the time for a while, the excess AC isn't wasted because the "coolth" will be stored in the walls.

We called this the cave effect in my solid brick house on a concrete pad. Ran the swamp cooler pretty much 24/7 during the summer, stayed right around 80-85.

For some of the really ugly nights we just drug a matress out next to the vents for the swamp cooler.

[kittenblue]

I very gently broached the subject tonight, and apparently if I would just leave the windows closed at night (with the air off) and turn on a fan, instead of using the attic fan ( I run it at too high a speed, it's not designed to run at its high setting....I guess they put that setting on there just to trick people) I will be cool and comfy all night.

Right.

It's stuffy and hot.

But she's never wrong. And the article in the seniors magazine on how to save energy and keep cool said to do that.

The living room couch is incredibly uncomfortable, but I'm getting very tempted.

[KGS]

kittenblue, how old is your mom? If she's from the Depression/WWII era, forget about it. Her generation deeply believes that any kind of suffering is worth pinching a few extra pennies, and no amount of logic will change that.

Complicating matter is the fact that, as JustAnotherGeek pointed out, she's your mother. Mothers always think they know best, and we're just kids who don't know better. There is a way to beat her at that game, however, if she's playing the Mom Card. And that's to play the Rebellious Teenager Card.

You see, every Mom has a blind spot. It's something we learn as kids, perfect as teens, and tend to forget about after we become adults. It's what enabled you to sneak around behind her back, conceal bad grades on a report card, wear obnoxious clothing for the sole purpose of making her freak out, that sort of thing. It may take you awhile to recall what her particular blind spot is, but don't get frustrated, eventually you'll remember. If you need pointers...ask your son.

Some things you might try:

(1) Change the thermostat to 72 when she's not looking, and pretend you don't know how it got changed. Blame the cat, the ozone layer, any wild excuse that comes to mind. (Note: this method works best with a sibling, because the two of you can conspire to blame each other.)

(2) Tell her you'll cover the extra expense of running the A/C lower, and promise to pay her the difference when the next bill comes. The key word here is promise. When bill time comes, make excuses for not being able to pay quite yet...maybe give her ten bucks, and hope she'll forget to ask the rest. Eventually, of course, she'll cancel the deal and turn the thermostat back up...but by that time, summer's over!

(3) Move into the living room, complain incessantly that it's too hot upstairs, she just doesn't understand, she doesn't really love you, blah blah. Spend LOTS of time talking on the phone late at night, play loud music (Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or Metallica work best -- whichever type of music her generation hates.) Oh, and when I say move in, really move in, with all your pillows and books and stuffed animals and everything. Make the living room your permanent nest. (This part is important!!!)

Whichever method you choose, be sure to make a game of it. You don't want to awaken any emotional demons, that would be counter-productive.

Good luck...hope you find a way to stay cool!

[bdgr]

If its an old mercury type thermostate, open it up, and adjust it so that it thinks that 74 is 81. Either by tilting the whole thermostat or just modifiying it. They arent too complicated.

[merrily]

She won't listen to you.

She doesn't go up there herself.

Find someone she will listen to, either from respect or because it will shame her to be found out, have that person go upstairs (you offer to show them something, not as part of your battle with your mom), and have that person comment on how stinking hot it is.

Even better, have the person ask you, where do you sleep, there's no way you could sleep up there at night, heat rises, everyone knows that!

[Harmonious Discord]

I have to say that I understand your mother's problem. I can't be in a room colder than 80F or I get all crippled up. I'm sure she does too. The humidity is waht you want to keep out at all costs.

The energy costs are way above what is affordable for many people and unless she's well off, you need to grin and bare it.

You may reach a compromise for the heat way. She leaves the air on at night set for 80F and you sleep downstairs for a period. It is her domicle, and she gets to choose what is comfortable.

[Skammer]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

It's a Depression-generation thing, plus fear over horror stories about huge electric bills that fill the news...

Even in this 100+ degree heat, my 90-yr old grandmother will not let my grandfather run the small window A/C unit they have in their tiny house (which their children bought for them a few years ago). Every time he tries to turn it on, she comes into the room: "Turn that thing off! It's just blowing cold air!"

It's a depression-era thing. Why pay money for a luxury like cold air? The thing is, 90-year olds need A/C if they want to make 91, at leat my grandparents do. So we always chide her to let grandpa keep it on. But I don't think she does, when we're not around.

[Joey P]

Here's some nice ammo

From here

Despite the soaring temperatures in the home, Eison was actually complaining of being cold and wouldn't allow a window-mounted air conditioner to be turned on because she wanted to save money, her daughter told authorities.

When I heard this on the news this morning, this post is the first thing I thought off. (Well acutally it was more like "Hey, when I get to work, I'll be able to kill some time digging up an article and posting it)

[Joey P]

Oh yea, she died.

[Harmonious Discord]

Originally Posted by Joey P

Oh yea, she died.

Kittenblue's mother is keeping the house at what Kittenblue thinks is to hot, not 100F. 80Fto 85F is uncomfortable not deadly for a healthy adult. The unfortunate death of the other woman was a older person using no air conditioning, not a healthy adult.

[tremorviolet]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

The hand that rules the AC is the owner of the house, my elderly mother. Due to some recent financial problems, I'm unable to chip in on the electric bill, but even if I could, to her it's a comfort and energy use issue.

Since you're not able to contribute, I don't think there's a good argument you can make. The way she's doing it now is the cheapest for her and she's paying the bills. I'd get a few cheap box fans for the windows, they can make a world of difference. I'm in Texas and I rarely use the air unless it gets up over 95 at night. I'm not home during the day and with good fans, I can get the apt (second story too) cooled down to the outside temp which is comfortable enough.

If it's really unbearable, do as another poster suggested and camp out of the sofa for the duration of the heatwave.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by tremorviolet

If it's really unbearable, do as another poster suggested and camp out of the sofa for the duration of the heatwave.

And, luckily, (at least for Wisconsin, but I'd imagine for other places as well) the heat wave is supposed to break tonight. It's been in the upper 90's for the past few days (with the Heat Index at about 105 to 110) and it's supposed to be 76 tomarrow.

[Clothahump]

Another thing that will help is to wet the roof down. The best way is to lay a weep hose along the roofline and put it on a timer so that it does its thing from about 10:30 - 4:30.

We had this issue in the last location our Taekwondo school was in. The a/c units were very old and couldn't cool the school down very well. In addition, we had really bad insulation and west-facing windows, so we got cooked in the summer afternoons.

I went up on the roof with a sprinkler and a garden hose. I set the sprinkler dead center on the roof, taped it in place and put a flow timer on the hose. When I came in to open the school up, I'd go out the back door and set the flow timer for about 2 hours. The sprinkler would come on and cool the roof down, and it made a big difference. Our water bill went up about $25 a month and our electricity bill came down about $80 a month. And our students weren't dropping like flies.

[samm]

Originally Posted by KGS

Some things you might try:

(1) Change the thermostat to 72 when she's not looking, and pretend you don't know how it got changed. Blame the cat, the ozone layer, any wild excuse that comes to mind. (Note: this method works best with a sibling, because the two of you can conspire to blame each other.)

(2) Tell her you'll cover the extra expense of running the A/C lower, and promise to pay her the difference when the next bill comes. The key word here is promise. When bill time comes, make excuses for not being able to pay quite yet...maybe give her ten bucks, and hope she'll forget to ask the rest. Eventually, of course, she'll cancel the deal and turn the thermostat back up...but by that time, summer's over!

(3) Move into the living room, complain incessantly that it's too hot upstairs, she just doesn't understand, she doesn't really love you, blah blah. Spend LOTS of time talking on the phone late at night, play loud music (Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or Metallica work best -- whichever type of music her generation hates.) Oh, and when I say move in, really move in, with all your pillows and books and stuffed animals and everything. Make the living room your permanent nest. (This part is important!!!)

Jiminy christmas, I'm not an old person or a mother, but if I had anyone living in my house (who was old enough to have their own children but NOT able to pay their own bills) that was lying to me, costing me extra money, and complaining incessantly, then I would kick them out on their butt. I'm sure they'd be much happier and cooler sleeping on the street!

[Little Plastic Ninja]

Along that line..

On the hottest day ever yet recorded in this town, I was outside scrubbing drips of paint from the floor of our front porch (because the Mensa rejects who painted the ceiling didn't even think of putting a tarp down or moving the outside table while they were slinging paint around, that's why). I didn't even realize it was so hot because:

A) The porch had a ceiling fan
B) I had sprayed the entire porch down with water, several times, to make the paint easier to scrape up. I was soaked. The floor was soaked. Together, we made it about 80 degrees in there rather than 118.

Also -- I believe this is true and I have no pressing reason to think otherwise -- the Littlefield Mansion, now used mostly for office space, is still cooled by the same system originally put into the house in 1890something. Water is piped through the walls in order to keep the place comfortable. It certainly is; the temperature approaches downright chilly in there.

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by samm

Jiminy christmas, I'm not an old person or a mother, but if I had anyone living in my house (who was old enough to have their own children but NOT able to pay their own bills) that was lying to me, costing me extra money, and complaining incessantly, then I would kick them out on their butt. I'm sure they'd be much happier and cooler sleeping on the street!

You took the words right out of my mouth! That is not behavior you want to model for the kids.

I happen to agree that 85 is not dangerous for healthy adults (or children).
However, heat exhaustion is a dangerous condition, and if the attic gets above a certain temperature (100 or so depending on humidity) it could become more serious. If you are worried about this, find some literature on heat exhaustion and show it to your mother.

That being said, if the temperature doesn't go much above 90-95 degrees it's more a matter of comfort. Here are a few suggestions.

I lived in an apartment with no air conditioning in Chicago the summer many people died. (100 degrees or more) I survived by opening all the windows so there was a breeze, plugging in a fan, and most importantly, taking a cold shower before I went to bed. A long cold shower is a miracle in a hot place. Have you tried this? It really cools down your core temperature and gets rid of that feeling that you'll never be able to cool off. This is especially effective if you have a fan blowing on you. I was almost shivering when I did this and I had no problem sleeping.

Take a shower and sleep downstairs on the floor with a fan on, or sleep outside.

If you are in dire financial straits apply for federal aid to help with the utility bills and such. Even if you live in your mom's house, you can get aid, especially if you have kids.

I happen to agree that air conditioning is a very energy inefficient luxury. There are ways to live without it, and you do save money by turning it off.

[GingerOfTheNorth]

Originally Posted by Clothahump

Another thing that will help is to wet the roof down. The best way is to lay a weep hose along the roofline and put it on a timer so that it does its thing from about 10:30 - 4:30.

We had this issue in the last location our Taekwondo school was in. The a/c units were very old and couldn't cool the school down very well. In addition, we had really bad insulation and west-facing windows, so we got cooked in the summer afternoons.

I went up on the roof with a sprinkler and a garden hose. I set the sprinkler dead center on the roof, taped it in place and put a flow timer on the hose. When I came in to open the school up, I'd go out the back door and set the flow timer for about 2 hours. The sprinkler would come on and cool the roof down, and it made a big difference. Our water bill went up about $25 a month and our electricity bill came down about $80 a month. And our students weren't dropping like flies.

Damn, that's clever. I'll remember that if we're in a too-hot place with substandard air conditioning.

[kanicbird]

You need a multipronged approach IMHO some suggestions:

If there are no pets - remove the covers on the vents upstairs totally - this will increase airflow.

Close off the downstairs - but you can't close off too many vents of a a/c system you risk freeze up.

Stop the cold air upstairs from falling downstairs - install a curtain or close the door. - Depending on your setup this could be a biggie.

Where are the intakes, close (block) the downstairs one, and remove (of no pets) the upstairs one This will create negative pressure upstairs and 'suck' more cold air from the vent system and upstairs.

Other things that could help but cost money:

Install vent boosters (basically fans in the vent or at the vent cover), that increase air flow to the upstairs.

install a window ac upstairs - probabally the best overall solution.