Massachusetts man charged with animal cruelty for cutting off puppy's ears.

[wolf_meister]

Okay, with a name like "wolf_meister" I am partial to my canine cousins but GEEZ this guy is one sick uncaring bastard.

Luis Negron, 20, of 142 Concord St. was arrested Sunday afternoon after police officers saw a set of dog ears on an empty beer case in the backyard that was allegedly used as the operating table, police said.
<snip>
Police said individuals sometimes cut the ears off dogs to make them appear more intimidating.

Although not mentioned in this story, I've heard it mentioned that another reason for removing the ears is preparing dogs for illegal "dog-fighting".

What an asshole !!!

If alien abductions were for real, I nominate this guy to be their next abductee and they can keep him for as long as they like.

[SnakesCatLady]

That happened here in Columbus, also, but they never caught the asshole who did it. Apparently he had hit the dog, too, and her sight was damaged - so he just threw her out.

The vet I used to work for no longer does ear crops, but when he did at least he used anesthetic!

I wish I believed in Hell when I read about shit like this.

[Unregistered Bull]

He cropped a dog's ears without anesthesia. How old was it? Was it the normal age for getting it done? Boars are made into barrows, roosters into capons, bulls into steers, and stallions into gieldings all the time without anesthesia. The ears of pigs and cows are notched without it. I know that this is a pet, but is tail docking and ear cropping universally done with or without anesthesia? It seems like such a common, ancient tradition that surely doing it under anethesia is something that came about fairly recently and may not be widely practiced.

[hawksgirl]

I'm sure its considered practicing veterinary medicine without a license at least.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

He cropped a dog's ears without anesthesia. How old was it? Was it the normal age for getting it done? Boars are made into barrows, roosters into capons, bulls into steers, and stallions into gieldings all the time without anesthesia. The ears of pigs and cows are notched without it. I know that this is a pet, but is tail docking and ear cropping universally done with or without anesthesia? It seems like such a common, ancient tradition that surely doing it under anethesia is something that came about fairly recently and may not be widely practiced.

Yeah, but even if it's routinely done without anesthesia, it's also done in a steril environment by a professional-not in some guy's backyard on a freaking BEER CASE.

Look, Unregistered Bull, I know you're not one for animals, and that's fine-not everyone is. But you have to admit, this doesn't sound like such a hot idea.

[hawksgirl]

Sterile environment? No.
Trained and qualified person doing it (or at least supervising)? Yes.

That's what the difference is.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Yeah, but even if it's routinely done without anesthesia, it's also done in a steril environment by a professional-not in some guy's backyard on a freaking BEER CASE.

Look, Unregistered Bull, I know you're not one for animals, and that's fine-not everyone is. But you have to admit, this doesn't sound like such a hot idea.

Is it? All over the world? Combs and wattles of roosters aren't trimmed in a sterile enviroment (vet's office), nor is removing the testicles of livestock, nor the notching of ears. This seems weird yeah. But I really don't know if it is that weird outside of the animal rights mindset. There is too little information presented.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

Sterile environment? No.
Trained and qualified person doing it (or at least supervising)? Yes.

That's what the difference is.

This guy might have known what he was doing. There is nothing in the OP that says that he didn't.

[hawksgirl]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

This guy might have known what he was doing. There is nothing in the OP that says that he didn't.

Granted, but where did he learn it?
It's not the kind of thing that a lot of people just know. Castrations and the like on the farm are taught by people who know what they are doing, make sure the learner knows thoroughly before they try it, and they know how to detect a problem and get adequate care.

But where does a guy learn to remove dogs' ears?

(not snotty, just a little curious)

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

But where does a guy learn to remove dogs' ears?

I imagine the same way. By watching, learning, and doing. Of course this guy could have not known what he was doing and botched the procedure. But with the information given, we don't know that.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

Is it? All over the world? Combs and wattles of roosters aren't trimmed in a sterile enviroment (vet's office), nor is removing the testicles of livestock, nor the notching of ears. This seems weird yeah. But I really don't know if it is that weird outside of the animal rights mindset. There is too little information presented.

Just to clarify--this will help me understand your ravings. Do you believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans adhere to the "animal rights mindset"?

Daniel

[hawksgirl]

I think he (like many people) neglect to distinct between "animal rights" (animal=person) and "animal welfare" (animals deserve to be cared for according to certain standards).

I could be wrong; I don't speak for the Bull.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

I imagine the same way. By watching, learning, and doing. Of course this guy could have not known what he was doing and botched the procedure. But with the information given, we don't know that.

Oh for crissakes, the guy used a freaking BEER CASE as an operating table, and he did it in his backyard! Even I know that's not a sterile environment.

Jesus, not everyone who thinks animals shouldn't be abused is some PETA nutfreak.

[hawksgirl]

Sterility is not a requirement when you're talking larger animals though. I helped castrate and dock tails for piglets and lambs. There were foot-long lamb tails all over the dirt floor of the barn we were doing it in. There were flies everywhere and the lamb had a bit of its own feces on itself (as animals tend to do). And this was for an approved University class, not some hick experimenting. That's how its done in the field every day.

So the real problem is whether its different for a sheep than a dog. I don't know. And if it isn't, then the animal industry has a lot of change to do when we figure it out.

[MrDibble]

"My dog has no ears!
-How does it hear?
Terrible!"
Naah, it's just not as funny.

But seriously - people cut the ears right off? I can sort of understand a little trimming or pointing, I guess, but I can't think of a good reason for lopping a dog's ears right off. Given that dogs are more aural than us, that seems excessively cruel.

[Menocchio]

They showed the poor pup on the news. A couple of points:

1. He didn't crop the ears, he cut them right off.

2. The cuts were ragged and uneven.

So he went beyond the usual operation, and didn't know what he was doing. This is a clear case of animal cruelty.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

This guy might have known what he was doing. There is nothing in the OP that says that he didn't.

The part where he was arrested might be a clue.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

Just to clarify--this will help me understand your ravings. Do you believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans adhere to the "animal rights mindset"?

Daniel

I think that it is becoming more and more pervasive in our society as it becomes more and more urbanized. And the only ravings in this thread are from those with an animal rights mindset.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Menocchio

They showed the poor pup on the news. A couple of points:

1. He didn't crop the ears, he cut them right off.

2. The cuts were ragged and uneven.

So he went beyond the usual operation, and didn't know what he was doing. This is a clear case of animal cruelty.

Well then, he shouldn't have done it. And he shouldn't do it again. I don't know about animal cruelty though. Did he do this to intentionally inflict pain for his jollies or to simply conform the dog to what many might consider its appropriate look.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

The part where he was arrested might be a clue.

Given the location and the fact the animal rights mindset is so pervasive there, it provides no clue except to those that adhere at least in some part to the animal rights mindset.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Oh for crissakes, the guy used a freaking BEER CASE as an operating table, and he did it in his backyard! Even I know that's not a sterile environment.

Jesus, not everyone who thinks animals shouldn't be abused is some PETA nutfreak.

Millions of similar operations, albeit on different animals, occur in similar enviroments. I am not familiar with ear cropping. I do know that tails are docked without anesthesia when dogs are young pups though. And not in vet offices either. The fact that he, supposedly, botched the job according to picture evidence is more relevant to the "wrongness" of cropping this animal's ears IMO.

And FWIW, one can be heavily influenced by animal rights without going over to the extreme of HSUS, PETA, or ALF. It's like all the people who are upset when something "bad" happens to a cute animal but not an ugly one.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

I think he (like many people) neglect to distinct between "animal rights" (animal=person) and "animal welfare" (animals deserve to be cared for according to certain standards).

I could be wrong; I don't speak for the Bull.

I think that it has became the same thing. If this guy had neglected to feed or water his pup, I'd be incensed. I wouldn't think that it worse or even any where remotely close to the multitude of crimes and cases of neglect towards human beings. But I would certainly think that it was seriously fucked up. Him fucking up a common procedure with no malice, even though it sucks for the dog, doesn't really piss me off too much.

[jsgoddess]

Someone cut my cat's ears off, apparently going for some chic look. If I could find that person and... actually I don't know what I would do. Probably cry, because I am a weenie.

[wolf_meister]

Unregistered Bull
Wow - nine postings so far - I guess you want your views to be duly noted.

As far as the procedures done on farm animals, at least those are done for a logical purpose (even if sometimes that purpose favors humans more than animals).

What the Hell is the purpose here? Did he expect burglars to think twice before they robbed his house?

"Gee I was thinking of breaking into that guy's house, even though I saw a Pit Bull in his yard. But when I saw the dog had no ears, I knew the dog would really be trouble."

[Sailboat]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

If this guy had neglected to feed or water his pup, I'd be incensed. I wouldn't think that it worse or even any where remotely close to the multitude of crimes and cases of neglect towards human beings. But I would certainly think that it was seriously fucked up. Him fucking up a common procedure with no malice, even though it sucks for the dog, doesn't really piss me off too much.

You are aware that neglecting to feed and water a pet is a common procedure outside the animal rights mindset?

I'm not clearly understanding your distinction where cutting off parts of an animal without anesthesia is acceptable because it's commonly done to animals by people who don't really care a lot, but not feeding the anmimal is UNacceptable even though it too is commonly done by people who don't really care a lot.

Can you clarify this position?

Sailboat

[hawksgirl]

If he fucked it up, he did not know what he was doing. This is animal cruelty (falls under welfare, not rights. They dont want to let him vote, just to live without undue suffering). It wasn't even ear cropping. Just... what the fuck? Someone mentioned dog fighting earlier, and that makes a lot of sense now, because I cannot think of a single aesthetic reason for fully removing the ears. Grrrr.

[Anaamika]

Where are you guys getting all this information??? I don't see a link anywhere?

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

But where does a guy learn to remove dogs' ears?

Tufts?

[hawksgirl]

Originally Posted by Cervaise

Tufts?

I have no idea what that means. Explain please?

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

I think that it is becoming more and more pervasive in our society as it becomes more and more urbanized. And the only ravings in this thread are from those with an animal rights mindset.

Let me repeat: Do you believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans adhere to the "animal rights mindset"?

Daniel

[wolf_meister]

Anaamika

Wow - I thought I posted the link. (And I previewed too).
I am sorry.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO25255/

[Anaamika]

Ok, that's better. Thanks, wolfmeister.

From the article:

After using scissors and other makeshift items to cut the ears off a pit-bull puppy, a 20-year-old Lowell man is facing animal-cruelty charges.

Officers found the pit bull puppy hidden in a stroller, crying in the basement.

Yeah, I'd say that's animal cruelty.

I do wonder how the police got there in the first place. Were they called? Because it says they saw the ears in the backyard, but how did they get in the backyard.

[ralph124c]

Someone who would do this to a puppy probably has no problem firing a few bullets into a human being-for "dissin'" him, for example. Incipient psychopath? probably. Of course, this dod was probably going to be used to fight, so the owner was probably not shy about brutalizing it. Real fine specimen of humanity there!

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

I don't know about animal cruelty though. Did he do this to intentionally inflict pain for his jollies or to simply conform the dog to what many might consider its appropriate look.

What a stupid question.

The fact that he might think that the "appropriate look" for this dog is having its ears hacked off does not, in any way, negate the cruelty involved in the act. If i genuinely thought that my cat would look better with my initials carved into its side, would that make it acceptable for me to take out a knife and start hacking away?

Or what if i thought that you would look better with the word "moron" branded on your forehead (a redundant exercise, i acknowledge)? Would that justify me throwing the iron in the fire and tying you down?

Of course, you'll probably answer that you are a human, and that we humans are different from animals, and deserve more consideration. It's certainly true that humans are different from animals, and in my opinion one of the things that makes us different is our capacity for reason and compassion. And, as the dominant species on this planet, we have a responsibilty to exercise our reason and compassion by not engaging in the needless torture of lesser creatures. If we don't do that, then our claim to be more highy evolved than them is pretty hollow.

[hawksgirl]

Originally Posted by mhendo

What a stupid question.

The fact that he might think that the "appropriate look" for this dog is having its ears hacked off does not, in any way, negate the cruelty involved in the act. If i genuinely thought that my cat would look better with my initials carved into its side, would that make it acceptable for me to take out a knife and start hacking away?

It was unclear at that point whether the ears were removed, or if it was a botched ear cropping of some sort. If it was the latter, it was a valid comment, albeit a controversial one as there are various arguments for and against cropping. The "pro" side is mostly dog showmen that maintain that that is how the dog should look, even if they can't breed it to actually look like that.

[mhendo]

Sorry, but cutting a dog's ears off, or even cropping them, for primarily aesthetic purposes, is cruel. Period.

[Guinastasia]

Unregistered Bull, we all know you don't like animals. So why do you have to come into every thread about animal cruelty and inform us that we're all making too big of a deal of it?

You may not like it, but in our society, animals deserve to be treated humanely. That means, if one takes on an animal as a pet, one has the duty to feed it, give it water, and take care of it. Cutting off its ears-NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON-in the manner done by this asshole was WRONG.

(And why couldn't you have kept your points confined to ONE post, rather than five posts in a freaking row?)

[LVBoPeep]

There were foot-long lamb tails all over the dirt floor of the barn we were doing it in. There were flies everywhere and the lamb had a bit of its own feces on itself (as animals tend to do). And this was for an approved University class, not some hick experimenting. That's how its done in the field every day.>>
Hawksgirl


Just out of curiousity, why wouldn't they band the lambs tails when they were younger instead of cutting them off? I keep sheep and band them at about 1-2 weeks and its infinitely cleaner and less stressful than cutting. Just curious as to what the reason was (on the university's side) for not banding them...

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Smokinjbc

Just out of curiousity, why wouldn't they band the lambs tails when they were younger instead of cutting them off? I keep sheep and band them at about 1-2 weeks and its infinitely cleaner and less stressful than cutting. Just curious as to what the reason was (on the university's side) for not banding them...

And also out of curiosity, why do it it all? Just wondering.

[Cluricaun]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

And also out of curiosity, why do it it all? Just wondering.

I see you've never been to Scotland.....

[hawksgirl]

Originally Posted by Smokinjbc

Just out of curiousity, why wouldn't they band the lambs tails when they were younger instead of cutting them off? I keep sheep and band them at about 1-2 weeks and its infinitely cleaner and less stressful than cutting. Just curious as to what the reason was (on the university's side) for not banding them...

I guess that's just they way they prefered to do it. We used the elastrator on the testes and like a cauterizing/cutting thing (the name of which I'm not familiar with) for the tail. Maybe so they had all the tails together at once, and we got experience cutting things, as placing rubber bands isn't very interesting? Just a guess.

And as to why do it at all: its a lot cleaner. Have you ever seen a lamb with a full tail? It just gets caked in dirt and (literal) crap. I think they can grow long enough to get stepped on, or other sheep can bite and injure it, inviting infection. Same with pigs. Its a lot more sanitary and healthy to remove them. Also if its a ewe and you want to milk it or have a lamb suckle, you're just asking for mastitis.

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

I have no idea what that means. Explain please?

Tufts

[Plynck]

I heard this on the news last night, and there was some speculation made that may shed light on the motive: This was a pit bull, and there may have been the intent to raise it for dog fights. If so, removing the ears gives the opposing dog less to hold onto during a fight. They may be withholding this from news stories because it would be speculating on criminal activities without substantial proof. It would, however, be consistent with removing the whole ear rather than cropping.

One thing not mentioned in the article - the police were called when neighbors heard the puppy's cries. Considering the normal barking that is typical in most urban settings, that crying must have been upsetting indeed for several neighbors to call the police.

And for heaven's sakes - what kind of idiot would attempt this himself rather than bring the puppy to a vet?

[hawksgirl]

A respectable vet would not do it.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Cluricaun

I see you've never been to Scotland.....

... but I've been to Arizona. Pithy and all, but not really responsive. Thanks anyway.

[Kalhoun]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Sorry, but cutting a dog's ears off, or even cropping them, for primarily aesthetic purposes, is cruel. Period.

It should be illegal. If you don't like the way the dog looks, pick another dog. Duh.

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Unregistered Bull, we all know you don't like animals. So why do you have to come into every thread about animal cruelty and inform us that we're all making too big of a deal of it?

You may not like it, but in our society, animals deserve to be treated humanely. That means, if one takes on an animal as a pet, one has the duty to feed it, give it water, and take care of it. Cutting off its ears-NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON-in the manner done by this asshole was WRONG.

(And why couldn't you have kept your points confined to ONE post, rather than five posts in a freaking row?)

Because so often the predominantly urban group of folks on the Dope do make too big a deal out of it. And FTR I do like all kinds of animals. I am all for providing domestic animals with food, water, and shelter. And in some cases, doing the same for wild animals.

It appears after getting the whole story instead of the minor snippet origninally provided, that what this guy did was pretty wrong. From the OP, there was no way to know if it was a botched job. And we still don't know how uncommon a practice this is.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Unregistered Bull

It appears after getting the whole story instead of the minor snippet origninally provided, that what this guy did was pretty wrong. From the OP, there was no way to know if it was a botched job. And we still don't know how uncommon a practice this is.

I'm curious about the moral underpinnings of your argument here. You seem to have taken a position that the morality or immorality of such an act is somehow directly tied to its prevalence. Is it your belief that this act is somehow more morally acceptable if more people do it?

After all, thousands of animals are dumped by roadsides each year. Does the frequency of this practice make it right, in your opinion?

[Unregistered Bull]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

Let me repeat: Do you believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans adhere to the "animal rights mindset"?

Daniel

I think that it is a serious problem and a significant threat to cultural and economic freedom in the US. One can look at recent legislation at the Federal level and see how it's treating the horse slaughter issue. Or the end of farrowing crate use in Florida which hurt economic raising of hogs (and probably results in a lot piglets* being smothered and crushed by mom) there. Rodeo has been affected, especially Mexican rodeos known as Charreadas. Calf roping is now known by the silly term tie-down roping so as to not offend those with an animal rights mindset. They don't even hold steer roping on TV. Chicago recently banned goose liver from gourmet restraunts. The freedom of religions such as Santería is severely curtailed because of animal rights laws. I'm also sure that Halal and Kosher butchering are in the sights of the more hardcore animal rightists such as HSUS, PETA, and ALF.

[Guinastasia]

One wonders how he managed to restrain the poor pup while he did this.

Damn, I hope the poor thing gets lots of love and care after this.