As I have mentioned, or at least implied, in a few other threads I grew up as an avid creationist of the fundamental Christian type. I am no longer in that category, I now self label as an ‘Open minded atheist’, i.e. I don’t actively believe in God, but I do not disallow for the possibility.
To give you a little background I was raised in a Biblical literalist church that I attended on a weekly basis (and then some) between the ages of 5 and 18. I firmly believed in everything I was taught, but eventually my belief began to wane. For several years I simply ignored it, essentially I just stopped thinking about my religion all together. I still occasionally went to church when I would visit home for the weekend, but I mostly went out of habit or to socialize. A little over a year ago I decided I needed to have a definitive statement of my beliefs and I was able to finally look all that I had been taught that didn’t mesh with my world view in the proverbial eye and walk away.
I have noticed in my years lurking, and now posting, on the Dope that there are very few, if any, Biblical literalists here, and those that do show up rarely last through their guest membership, so I figured that there may be some posters that might want to probe into the mind of a former member of that group.
Ask away! (or let the tread die a quiet death if I overestimated peoples interest)
Would something as simple as pointing out that some of the trees on Yakushima are at least over 6,000 years old make most biblical literalists immediately jump up and down screaming, or would most not even notice the non-sequitor.
(As I recall, the world is meant to be only 4,000 years old or so…)
I’ve wondered why most Biblical Literalists don’t live a low-tech or no-tech lifestyle, like the Amish. Why are there Biblical Literalists on TV, when TV, electricity, etc., aren’t mentioned in the Bible?
Oddly enough I’m not really all that bitter. I suppose part of the reason lies in the fact that it was so much of who I was that I can’t disassociate it from who I am now. Basically I see it as an such integral part of becoming who I am now (a person I happen to like a fair bit) that figure that the means justify the end.
Admittedly there is one thing that I am a little bitter about and that is growing up with the firm belief that ‘God has a plan for my life’. I was so sure of that that I feel as though I shorted myself on planning and preparing for my life.
There was one moment of epiphany, but it was only a small one that acted as a spark to get the whole process started.
I have always been a science buff, specifically astronomy, cosmology, and physics. For most of my life I have enjoyed reading about all of these topics in my free time. If I had to pinpoint the epiphany I would say it happened sometime in my eighteenth year when I was reading a book (I think it was The Elegant Universe) and it hit me, I was dismissing out of hand any fact or theory that did not fit nicely into my preconceived notion of the world. I consciously decided to stop doing that and to examine everything with equal candor. From that point forward it was a gradual process that led me to where I am now.
My mother took it incredibly well, all things considered. She and I shared a pleasant and frank discussion about what I believed and why etc. over a nice meal. She was genuinely interested in what had brought me to change my views. My father, on the other hand, was devastated. I told him about a month and a half ago and while we still talk (though not nearly as much as we used to) and he still seems to enjoy my visits there is certainly a strained nature to our relationship now.
Not really. I imagine that if I had not been brought up to associate literalism so strongly with religion that I might still be a Christian of some sort. There may be a time in the future that I am able to separate the two ideas in my mind, but for the time being I can’t accept one without the other.
I think there may have been seeds of doubt earlier but the above mentioned epiphany at the age of 18 was the first time I took active notice of them.
I may be off, but I think the accepted age is 6,600 years. But in answer to the spirit of the question most would simply not notice or dismiss any scientific evidence of an older Earth. I personally would search until I found one little bit of the evidence that could perhaps be mistaken and then just take that fact as proof that none of it worked.
I have to admit that I am incredibly ashamed to say that I used to think like that.
No where in the Bible does it say that you must live exactly as Jesus did, at least not that I know of. Even if it does say something of that nature people are very good at interpreting things to fit into the modern day (or better put: their preferred morality)
An example:
There is a famously controversial passage in 1st or 2nd Timothy where Paul writes that wives should submit to their husbands. My father always interpreted that passage very literally (i.e. he always had the final say in any family decisions).
I always interpreted that very differently. It says earlier in the letter that the real problem is that the women in question were taking advantage of the fact the Jesus’ teachings gave them more freedom in their marriages than women traditionally had in the area. He told them that they shouldn’t take it too far lest they make the religion seem undesirable to others thus lowering the number of converts. So the lesson changes to one of following cultural rules as to not alienate yourself from those you should be witnessing to.
Both are literal interpretations of the passage but they have very different implications.
22 actually. About two and a half of the four years were spent with my brain separating itself into two factions, one that questioned everything and almost always came up disagreeing with the other half which continued to try to hold on to everything I was taught to believe. Ever spend almost 3 years in a constant state of cognitive dissonance? It’s a weird feeling. The final year of the missing four I simply avoided the topic with my parents as I knew how my father would react, if he brought up something religious I would simply nod, smile, and change the subject.
Put that particular thought out of your head. You’ll never have completely won the battle for your intellectual freedom as long as you retain the residual guilt that religion can foist upon many people.
What is your status (i.e married? kids? college? moved away from home town?)
You seem about the age where all of those things happen. It seems with fundamentalist belief, that getting married early (to another fundamentalist), having kids, not going to college, etc seem to “lock in” early dogmatic beliefs.
Do you notice any turning points in your life where if you’d taken a different path, the open-minded revalations might never have been possible for you?
Back when I was a Creationist, I heard everything from 6,000 years to 10,000 years. I think Ken Ham, despite what it says in the article, generally supports 10,000 years, but I may be mistaken.
I received a ton of literature on why dating techniques are wrong, etc. For example, if the earth were older than 10,000 years old, everything would’ve eroded away. Or something.
I know Alistair has already answered this, but my experience as a former Creationist and with other former Creationists is that we usually view the Creationist teachings of our childhood as learning experiences. Many of my friends who are also majoring in Evolutionary biology were brought up as Creationists, and most of us agree that it was Creation science that first sparked our interest in evolution, and eventually led us to learn more about it in college.
Ah well, I can’t think of anything else that makes it an easy, like tree rings, to support going over 10,000. There is still the stars and light speed.
It’s not so much guilt as it is wanting to never fall into the trap of that kind of thinking again. Ok, there is a little bit of guilt there as well, and you’re right, it’s something that I need to drop.
Graduating my undergrad program in December, and moved away from home three years ago.
I’m not sure, it was my interest in science that eventually made everything click for me so I think that even if I had stayed closer to home it would have happened, though it probably would have taken longer. I suppose if my parents had ever dissuaded me from my interest in science I may never had reached to point of questioning.
That is an excellent way of putting it.
I seem to recall the two answers that I heard for that being along the lines of either light speed has slowed down or God created the light in transit. And it is that kind of blind, grasping, rationalization that wore me down.
I know my elder brother, with whom I discuss issues and topics like this in depth, holds a similar view to my own. While I am not sure exactly where he would place himself, I would say he is a Deistic Humanist with no specific religious affiliation. As for my younger sisters I am fairly certain that they are still where I was. Not sure what their take on this is though as it isn’t something that ever comes up when we talk.
