Human-Animal Moral Code

The BBQ Pit
1

The recent threads with regard to pit bulls and cats once again remind me that my own moral code is at odds with the majority of posters here. I think my code is reasonable, justified and is the result of concern for both humans and animals and a logical progression of basic caring emotion. You know, as a child up till the age of 16 or thereabouts, my goal was to be a vet, but I never had the school marks to justify that objective.

My first pet was a unknown breed of black dog named Blacky. I was five years old. I can still see the green truck with side compartments in the driveway swallowing up my loved one. I hated my dad. Many years later, I learned that our family was thrust into abject poverty at the time because of his business partner.

Several years later my cat Smokey disappeared. Once again I was devastated. I found out later she was sick and we could not afford a vet.

Somewhere during this period my dad made known to me that he believed it was more humane to put down an animal than give it away to someone else. Not that I buy that particular sentiment, but it left me with a need to establish some sense of a moral compass with respect to animals.

At the age of 10 I was given an opportunity to select a German Shepherd puppy. The father was Hector and the mother was Sheba. How many of you know the name of the parents of your dogs? I named her Princess and although she was a purebred, I never felt the need to pursue her documentation. She was my best friend and we had an intense relationship until I left home for university.

During te subsequent years of my life, I felt the need to come up with a moral code with respect to human animal interaction. Yet the wants and needs of humans constantly conflict with the best interests of animals. Before I continue, I hope you’ll recognize that I too am an animal lover. So here’s the basis of my moral code.

  1. The needs of humans trumps the needs of animals. The wants of humans do not. However the need/want dichotomy is really a continuum that is subject to objectivity. If you disagree with the first statement, then to continue reading and respond will be a waste of your time.
  2. The biological imperatives inherent in the life of an animal should be respected. That means the inherent need of a species to socialize(if inherent), survive(food and water) and procreate(have sex and rear kids)
  3. Every species is endowed with the need to function according to evolutinary influence.
  4. The degree of importance of the above criteria should correlate to the degree of intelligence of the species.
  5. Every individual animal should have the right to live subject to human needs. That right need not be equivalent to the human right. The primary reason for that qualification is that animals, due to their lack of human attributes are not influenced by a sentience that includes a {b]hope** for the future.
  6. Every species has their own needs.

These 6 points influence all of my attitudes with respect to animals. Now lets take individual cases of my contention with other animal lovers.

Cats. If you think you are anymore than a warm spot or a source of food then you are deluded. You might enjoy the emotional effects of your interaction with them, but that is about on par with a guy who patronizes a hooker. I get that information anecdotally and from cat experts. Ever went on a hike with an unleashed cat ? I’m not intending to put down cats, but they do not have IMHO the same desirable characteristic of dogs. There advantage as pets however is based on the need of much lesser owner efforts.

Pit bulls. They are dogs period. I most of all love dogs. I have been intimate with and studied dogs all my life. I know that the various types have been bred for specific purposes and have been proven to excell in their specific areas.Some of these breeds have been bred for various fighting sports. Pit bulls are the most popular.
Most people buy one of these dogs for reasons of their own and I know they can be very lovable. Yet constant press reports of horrible maimings and deaths by pit bulls leads me to believe that this particular breed is undesirable. Arguments of undesirable ownership do not sway me. Assholes and incompetants abound in our society and we can’t control that. We can control the breeding of dogs however through legislation. I particularly am biased towards German Shepherds and I know that a lot of people are fearful of them. But if I hear constant press reports of deaths and maulings of other humans by them I would certainly never aquire another one. I just wish the breed and those like it slowly disappear.

Pigs. Ever seen a corporate pig barn? Just horrendous. I love bacon, but I get it from a local farmer who allows his pigs to roam.

Chickens. Ever been in a corporate chicken barn? As a teenager to make some extra cash I participated in grabbing the legs of 7 each 8 week old chickens at a time and shoved them into a small cage on a transport truck. I get my chickens from a local farmer who allows them a barnyard life.

Injured Animals. I once came across a rabbit that was injured from a previous motorist. I could see it shaking on the road. I stopped my truck, got out and stomped with all my force on its head to put it out of its misery. Got a problem with that?

Neutering. This is an area of compromise on my part. I accept that we desire to kill animals for food, because we have our own biological imperative for meat. We do not have a bilogical imperative for pets and yet we want them and not to neuter would create all sorts of problems. It is in conflict with my moral code of allowing all domestic species an experience of excercising one of their two bilogical imperatives. This is a problem I have not yet sorted out to my satisfaction.

Feel free to flame me, but please give me the opportunity to understand where you and I differ.

2

You are aware that there isn’t a single breed recognized as “pit bull”, yes?

3

You are a dog person. So am I. Dogs are pack animals, and we understand the pack mentality. That’s why dogs fit into our households so well.

I don’t understand cats or cat people. They’re absolutely nonsensical to me. I enjoy petting cats and am friendly to the cats who cross my path, but I don’t see why anyone would put up with one in their house. In my worldview a cat as a pet has no particular advantage over, say, a ferret, whose fur is just as soft and kills rats in addition to mice. But since I expect cat people to respect me and my doggish devotion to all things canine, I choose to take a respectful tone when speaking of cat people. It is patently unfair to tell a cat owner that their cat sees them as only a warm spot; as unfair as telling you that your beloved german shepard will be cheerfully eating your guts for lunch if your forget to feed him. I believe my dog respects and loves me; if a cat owner tells me their cat does the same I will not tell them they are wrong. I know that’s not the tone you were trying to take, but you really ought to apologize.

FYI - in the Pit Bull thread someone linked to a CDC report of all the documented deaths By dog bite over a twenty year period. Guess which breeds rounded out the top three most frequent killers? Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and - oopsie - German Shepherds. I’ll phone the shelter and tell them you’ll be dropping off Bowser later today.

4

Yes, I have.

What relevance has this question to anything?

5

Dogs are biologically programed to stay with you (pack), cats are independent creatures that choose to stay with you.

6

Ah yes, here is the link - I see it has been trotted out several more times since I last looked at the Pit Bull thread: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

So, approximately 300 people died of dog bites over a 19 year periodin the US, meaning your odds of dying by dog bite are roughly 1,000,000 to one. According to the National Weather Service, your odds of being hit by lightning are roughly 280,000 to one. (cite: http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/resources/Ltg%20Safety-Facts.pdf) So, abusing the math, you’re almost four times more likely to be hit by lightning that get killed by a Pit Bull.

Do you have any idea how the Press works? They print the news that sells newspapers. If you buy the stories on Pit Bulls, then that’s what they print, regardless of how representative that is of reality. Critical thinking should always be applied when reading the newspaper.

7

Thank you, Edward R. Murrow. :rolleyes:

8

Obviously not :stuck_out_tongue:

9

I’m all for reality and understanding it, even when someone “on my side” tells me something which even they know is untrue. My German Shepherd would have starved to death before she ever would take a chunk out of me.

I respect cat people. Enormously in fact. I am elated when these people come to a cat’s defense. Their preference for cats is their business and who am I to tell them otherwise. I enjoy it as well to see a kitten at play with a ball of string, but don’t tell me that you have a give and take relationship with a cat. People who are well aware of the true character of a generic cat can best appreciate it, and so often I’m given the impression that cat lovers ascribe some human love attribute to them. In one of the earlier threads I referred to a cat that pissed on me. Yes I was angry, but I also was kind of thrilled by this animal having the correct sense in how to insult me. I actually was filled with admiration for its intelligence. Given that intelligence, I quickly determined that I would or should ascribe a higher degree of responsibility towards good social behavior. I didn’t destroy the cat. I gave it away. And by the way, this cat had no prior pissing accidents like I get every second day with my 13 year old Dachshund that I tolerate. Btw, I had saved several song birds from this cat.

10

Big difference between a general attitude towards a category of people and a specific attitude towards a specific author of a non value-adding posts :wink:

Besides, how do you know I wasn’t giving you a sincere compliment? You know, you cat people can be so idiotic sometimes. </tongue in cheek>

11

Yep, and those pigs are treated better than many human beings in America. Barns are cleaned daily and air conditioned. Pigs are routinely checked to maintain good health. The pig farms of today are a far cry from those of yesteryear.

This, of course, doesn’t change the fact that I’m not a big fan of pork, and I’ll only occasionally eat tenderloin, chops, or ham. Can’t stand bacon.

We raised chickens when I was young. My attitude toward animals that are raised for food is this: they’re a crop. I don’t feel any worse about cutting the head off a chicken than I feel about picking an ear of corn. They were raised for consumption. That’s not to say they shouldn’t be kept clear of harm while alive and given plenty of clean water, food, and relatively sanitary conditions, but when their time is up, it’s up. No hard feelings.

None whatsoever. Good for you for ending its suffering.

12

I would be the last person to say any such thing. All I’m saying is that I respect people who say that, even if I don’t understand the nature of the relationship. As fellow pet owners, we should respect each other.

You mean, sort of like we do with dogs?

Rats with wings! You should have handed them to the cat as a goodbye present.

13

Um…you know that’s illegal in most places, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

14

Pigeons aren’t songbirds. :stuck_out_tongue:

15

One place where you and I differ is that you killed a cat who peed on your bed because of some psychic connection you had that made you realize that cats are as intelligent as you are, and that this cat peed on you as a malicious act of will. Instead of taking the animal to a vet to determine whether there may have been a physiological problem, you had the cat put down. And crowed about it.

To call yourself an animal lover in the light of the above is to abuse language beyond usefull meaning. No animal lover would behave as you have done, and if he had, he would be deeply ashamed. You, sir, are a liar.

16

I have too. A very cool cat that a roomie had would go for hikes with us all the time. He wouldn’t cross streets though, so we were limited in area…

17

Gave away, not killed ( hopefully ). But regardless, I agree. Inappropriate urination in cats is commonly associated with medical problems and since cats are often very good at hiding illnesses ( sometimes to the point of being almost terminal ), it is not uncommonly the first obvious symptom to present itself. Assuming that the very first time a cat peed somewhere wrong was automatically because of malice was foolish in the extreme. At the very least a thorough vet checkup was called for.

Beyond that, while cats can indeed “act up” when distressed, being that certain about what was going on seems way to far into self-assured psychic anthropomorphism for my comfort.

As far as cat/human interactions go ( and this coming from someone who has owned cats, dogs, assorted rodents, lizards, snakes, turtles and fish at various times in my life and liked them all for what they were ), objective research doesn’t quite bear out the “just a warm spot/feeder” hypothesis. Cats are not pack animals, but they are semi-social and feral cats will congregate in loose groups under certain circumstances with loose hiearchies and engage in social pair ( or greater )-bonding. Despite being near identical in appearance to their wild ancestors, domestic cats ARE domesticated animals and don’t display identical behavior to their wild cousins. Cats kept as close pets seem to actually be slightly infantilized - the owner appears to take on the role of the parent, specifically the mother cat. It’s not the same pack bond as you get with a dog, but it appears to ( generally ) be an affection bond all the same. Exceptions of course probably being semi-feral animals or barely handled barn cats looking for handouts.

As to the OP’s little list, I too don’t place animals on a higher plane than humans and for me that includes neutering and spaying them without a qualm. As far as I’m concerned they have no “natural right” to procreate, nor roam free. And I think you almost certainly did right with your injured rabbit example.

But I have some mild issues with some of your other statements. For example German Shepards ( the puppy-milled varieties at least ) are notoriously prone to “shy-sharpness” and hence fear biting if improperly trained and socialized. But I no more condemn the whole breed for that, than I do “pitbulls” for their propensity to have strong prey drives and thus to be cat-killers if improperly trained and socialized. Different breeds just have to be manged differently is all. But that sort of argument is being hashed out in that other thread.

  • Tamerlane
18

So it’s a pet thread and it’s mainly about dogs and cats. Par for the course! Well I like birds and reptiles and think you all are wacked in the head. :slight_smile: I don’t much like cats, but I don’t have any problem with them. Though I find outdoor cats absolutely appalling for example, because they kill my beloved songbirds. (Half the time they don’t even eat them because they are well-fed. They are just doing it for practice). The reaction from [some] cat-lovers? “Well, there’s plenty of birds.” No, actually, plenty of bird species are on the verge of extinction because of cats, and have been since the early European settlers because of cats being introduced to new places. Source - check out David Attenborough’s Life of Birds, for example. And on the other hand, I do believe it’s more dangerous for cats to be outdoors than in. I don’t like them - that doesn’t mean I want to find one under my car one day. Somebody’s beloved pet? I would be heartbroken because they were.

But still, as **Leviosaurus **says (and then insults my beloved birds! bad Levi!) we must all respect each other’s feelings. To a extent.
Even though I participated in the cats thread (not the Pit Bull thread), I am not really going to sit here and try to list *all *my feelings about animals. Because every one is different and all cases are different. There are some few consensuses that can be reached but a lot of the time we don’t know the full details and we jump to conclusions.

I do have a major problem with the way dogs and cats are practically revered in the States, to the point of insulting other countries who don’t do so, and then look what we do to the non-cute animals.

19

I grew up in a very rural, forested area, and we always had cats. A number of them loved to go on long hikes through the woods, all-day affairs.

It’s a lot different than walking with a dog. The cats were very quiet and did a lot of watching. They didn’t scare most of the wildlife.

Most of the walks I’ve taken with dogs have involved boisterous dogs who galumphed through the woods (it’s hard to get a Saint Bernard to walk quietly). The Saint, Gennie, would chase all animals.

A couple of times, I went out with the Gennie and two cats, Boo and Too (yeah, I named them when I was very young). The cats took turns walking right with me while the other wandered farther afield. Gennie kept galloping barking off then coming back to lean and drool on my leg. Sometimes, the dog would be out of sight/hearing for an hour or two. The cats tag teamed, so one was always with me, and often both were.

Er, this post wasn’t supposed to be so rambly. Sorry.

20

So, when a cat owner says their cat loves them, they’re anthropomorphizing them, but when a dog owner says their dog loves them, it’s the real deal. I wonder if the OP has any evidence for that claim?

And for the record, I love both dogs and cats.