Paul Potts on Britian's Got Talent

[ivylass]

I caught this via Brit Hume on Fox News who got it from YouTube...my God!

Watch the video...you will be blown away.

[Hal Briston]

There's a lengthy discussion about him over in the Your favorite Youtube video (new thread) thread, along with a link to his semi-final performance.

[ivylass]

Dammit...I searched for Paul Potts and everything.

[Operation Ripper]

Was about to make a joke about Pol Pot, but then watched the vid. That was epic, gotta say.

[phouka]

More than his singing ability (which is jaw-dropping), it's his bravery that's inspiring. He knows that he's just a working class schlub with bad teeth, and that Simon whatsisface picks his teeth with contestants, and he got up there and sang his heart out.

Damn, but I'd buy that man a drink any day.

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by phouka

More than his singing ability (which is jaw-dropping), it's his bravery that's inspiring. He knows that he's just a working class schlub with bad teeth, and that Simon whatsisface picks his teeth with contestants, and he got up there and sang his heart out.

Damn, but I'd buy that man a drink any day.

He's talented, but he's not "just" a working class "schlub." He's been training for years, and touring in Italy with a top Italian company. His teachers include Luciano Pavorotti, as well as several other singers who I've never heard of but who I gather are right up there.

This is what Wikipedia says, anyway.

I don't mean to detract from the guy's talent or his performance, but the presentation was edited to make it appear as though he just came out of nowhere singing like that on his own, and as though he'd never had an opportunity to perform seriously before. ("It's always been my dream to sing!" edited to make it seem as though he means he's never sung before.) In fact he's sung on TV before.

-FrL-

[Operation Ripper]

Originally Posted by Frylock

I don't mean to detract from the guy's talent or his performance, but the presentation was edited to make it appear as though he just came out of nowhere singing like that on his own, and as though he'd never had an opportunity to perform seriously before. ("It's always been my dream to sing!" edited to make it seem as though he means he's never sung before.) In fact he's sung on TV before.

Well shatt, you should detract from it then, 'cause it was apparently total bullshit. Feh.

[Operation Ripper]

Ayup, he was a ringer, per his Wiki bio. What a travesty, contrived bullshit of a show. Sorta like putting Christy Aguilerra on AI as an amateur.

[ianzin]

Bit of an own goal for the producers. It might not matter quite so much if there was just a mild clash between how the producers choose to slant the show in the edit ('These are all amateurs from nowhere!) and the fact that Paul has in fact had a lot of pro or semi-pro experience.

But it goes a little bit further than that. I think it was the semi-final where Simon Cowell gave a big heartwarming speech - more or less a 'statement of policy' - about how the show was all about discovering someone who is just an ordinary Joe, doing a humdrum job somewhere, who turns out to have a hidden talent. Cowell is of course not just a judge but also the executive producer, so his statement should carry some weight. Doesn't look too good if the ordinary Joe turns out to be someone with Paul's level of prior experience.

It's been quite a strange show. Having the auditions in front of a live audience made a big difference. As usual, the choices and selections seem utterly imponderable. Zeus knows what the judges saw in the middle-aged, overweight Madonna wannabe who didn't even sing, and who at the semi final stage was more or less stoned off the stage by the audience. Or those women with the 'dancing dogs' who didn't have a routine for the semi-final. It's a shame to think these people took semi-final places that were denied to other acts.

[Operation Ripper]

Meh, upon further review it seems he wasn't really a pro, but paid for all that stuff, the tour and everything, so I guess he still rocks, great YouTube stuff still I gotta say. I'd vote for him.

[Operation Ripper]

Originally Posted by ianzin

But it goes a little bit further than that. I think it was the semi-final where Simon Cowell gave a big heartwarming speech - more or less a 'statement of policy' - about how the show was all about discovering someone who is just an ordinary Joe, doing a humdrum job somewhere, who turns out to have a hidden talent.

Nahh, it was that other guy on the panel, whoever he is, never seen him before. Who is that broad anyway, she's kinda hot, cuter than Pauler gotta say.

[glee]

Originally Posted by Operation Ripper

Nahh, it was that other guy on the panel, whoever he is, never seen him before. Who is that broad anyway, she's kinda hot, cuter than Pauler gotta say.

Are you referring to Amanda Holden?

She certainly is a hottie.

[glee]

The other judge is Piers Morgan, a former newspaper editor.
He has been involved in various scandals faking pictures and lots of others

[Operation Ripper]

Originally Posted by glee

The other judge is Piers Morgan, a former newspaper editor.
He has been involved in various scandals faking pictures and lots of others

I say, he's a bit of wanker then isn't he?

[ianzin]

Originally Posted by Operation Ripper

I say, he's a bit of wanker then isn't he?

The general opinion of the nation re Morgan was best summed up by Stephen Fry, who once defined 'countryside' as 'a legal term meaning to murder Piers Morgan'.

[Liberal]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in a Wiki article thrown up a few days ago. And I certainly wouldn't refer to anything in it as "fact". For one thing, it doesn't jibe with an interview Paul gave to NPR (linked in the other thread), in which he said he'd had a few lessons, the last of which was some six years ago. No, he didn't just roll out of bed the morning of the auditions deciding that he'd sing opera that day. But he certainly hasn't had anything like a career with it.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Liberal

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in a Wiki article thrown up a few days ago. And I certainly wouldn't refer to anything in it as "fact".

I dunno. A lot of the information in the Wiki article comes from the Bath Opera website. There's a bio of the bloke here.

A student of Ian Comboy, Paul has appeared on national and local television and radio. He has spent two summers touring Northern Italy training with one of the major opera schools, and has taken part in masterclasses with Vilma Vernocchi, Katia Ricciarelli and Luciano Pavarotti. He has also performed with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. With Bath Opera he has sung the roles of Don Basilio (Marriage of Figaro), Don Ottavio (Don Giovanni) and the title role in Verdi's Don Carlos. Future plans include the role of Chevalier des Grieux (Manon Lescaut) for Southgate Opera, London, and another concert with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in the summer.

[Kal]

And, yes, I accept that the Bath Opera gigs were amateur and don't really think that the bloke himself has been dishonest about his background. The producers of the show do appear to have been a wee bit manipulative about things though.

[glee]

Originally Posted by ianzin

The general opinion of the nation re Morgan was best summed up by Stephen Fry, who once defined 'countryside' as 'a legal term meaning to murder Piers Morgan'.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Kal

And, yes, I accept that the Bath Opera gigs were amateur and don't really think that the bloke himself has been dishonest about his background. The producers of the show do appear to have been a wee bit manipulative about things though.

Oh, well, lordy. That goes without saying.

[Operation Ripper]

Well, how did he do then in the final???

[Liberal]

It should be underway right now. It's approaching 8:30 PM in London.

[Kal]

Yep, the final is on now with the results programme starting at 10pm.

[MarcusF]

He won

[jjimm]

Good on him.

[MarcusF]

Agreed, whatever the show's producers made him out to be, he has got talent.

And anything is better than the six year old with the missing teeth

[GorillaMan]

Yikes, I saw him for the first time tonight. He seems to have a vibrato which mimics a boy's voice breaking. Awful. But hey, he'll make a fortune for himself and for his record company, and that's the important thing, right?

Sing Nessun Dorma in drag and with an accent halfway between Borat and Bjork if you want, but with the right presentation (i.e. tug on the rags-to-riches heartstrings) people will still fall for it. The song isn't the good thing. It's not that hard to sing. Especially into a microphone. Verdi's music is brilliant. That's all...

(I'm getting ready for a rant now, must go and sit down.)

[fachverwirrt]

I just want to point out that this:

Originally Posted by Bath Opera

...has taken part in masterclasses with Vilma Vernocchi, Katia Ricciarelli and Luciano Pavarotti.

does not mean that he's taken lessons with Pavarotti. A master class isn't a lesson, and one can "take part" without even necessarily singing.

I think his amateur status is secure.

[Revenant Threshold]

I'm glad he won, if only because he would be probably the only one to beat the little girl, who was awful.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Revenant Threshold

I'm glad he won, if only because he would be probably the only one to beat the little girl, who was awful.

I hate to think what your reaction is when a typical six-year-old decides to sing to you!

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by Revenant Threshold

the little girl, who was awful.

But would you have told her... to her face? She's six for God's sake.

That said, she was saccharine beyond belief, and whoever trained her to make "shaking the ribcage up and down" = "vibrato" needs shooting.

[Revenant Threshold]

She was very good for a six year old. I'm certainly impressed by her voice at her age. But I wouldn't buy a CD of it. And if she came on the radio i'd turn it off. And with normal six year olds it's cute that they're trying - they're bad, but that's cute. She was trying, and wasn't that good anyway, and was being told she was superb. I guess that soured me to her too.

And no, I wouldn't say it to her face, but then that's the miracle of phone voting - you don't need to face them!

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by jjimm

That said, she was saccharine beyond belief, and whoever trained her to make "shaking the ribcage up and down" = "vibrato" needs shooting.

I agree with you on these points. But her technique was as refined, and as versatile, as Mr Spots. The difference with the kid is that she had a truly remarkable sense of pitch, and for a six-year-old quite incredible breath control. There's a potential singer there, provided she doesn't have a money-grabbing family choosing to make the quick buck (aka Charlotte Church), because it's physically impossible to combine the demands of the two.

[Operation Ripper]

Anyone have a link of his final performance?

[GorillaMan]

The falling intervals were where the pitch rose, and think the range she'd need to get down to was physically beyond her. I didn't say 'perfect', but 'truly remarkable'.

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by Operation Ripper

Anyone have a link of his final performance?

Sure: Paul Potts winning the competition singing Nessun Dorma*.


(*I always thought a certain Japanese car company should bring out a motor home called a "Nissan Dormer".)

[Szlater]

Originally Posted by jjimm

(*I always thought a certain Japanese car company should bring out a motor home called a "Nissan Dormer".)

Honda?

[jjimm]

That's right! The all-new Honda "Nissan Dormer", made by Subaru.

[ianzin]

GorillaMan - you seem to know a bit about singing and music and stuff. I was wondering if you had any opinion on the other little girl in the final, the one who was 12 and wanted to do musical theatre. I thought her first two performances (Flower Seller, Mary Poppins) were really surprisingly good and showed a lot of promise. Didn't like her final performance, though. It seemed to me that she was having serious pitch problems. What I did like, however, was that she at least got a new performance ready for each appearance. Almost all the others stuck with the 'tried and true', even the guy with a monkey puppet. Anyway, even tho she didn't win, I reckon she's got a future in the business if she sticks at it.

[yojimbo]

Two links to the performances ianzin is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d41ZBcYPgOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjXQh2UigQ

I really liked her and thought the first My Fair Lady one would have been perfect for The Royal Variety show.

As you say though she's sure to pop up on the westend after a bit more stage school. She seems very serious about her dream and certainly has the talent.

[GorillaMan]

Having watched those clips...

I fully agree she's got the potential for a career on the stage. Although her voice is currently nothing spectacular: they were much easier songs, and it would be interesting hear how she'd have got on with Somewhere Over the Rainbow in comparison. And bear in mind that she's a fair bit older - eleven-year-olds who can sing like that, or can dance like that, aren't as hard to find as six-year-olds!

[Liberal]

Wonderful! He will perform before the Queen, and Simon told him that this week, he'd be working on his debut album. Honestly, I don't know whether he's technically good or not, and I don't care. I love everything about him, and I hope his every dream comes true.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Wonderful! He will perform before the Queen, and Simon told him that this week, he'd be working on his debut album. Honestly, I don't know whether he's technically good or not, and I don't care. I love everything about him, and I hope his every dream comes true.

I have to take issue with this. He's not technically good, and the suggestion that he somehow deserves great things for being a regular guy who happens to sing better than people expect (but still not particularly well) is insulting to those of us who have worked our asses off to become technically proficient, but weren't lucky enough to have a talent show come along to thrust us into fame and recognition.

I'm happy for him. But a talent show's a talent show. He is not that good at what he does, and while there is no particular reason that he can't get better, as things stand, he does not deserve more than what he's got. Sing for the Queen, record your album; the rest shouldn't just be handed to him because it's "a nice story."

[GorillaMan]

Well put, fachverwirrt.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by fachverwirrt

I have to take issue with this. He's not technically good, and the suggestion that he somehow deserves great things for being a regular guy who happens to sing better than people expect (but still not particularly well) is insulting to those of us who have worked our asses off to become technically proficient, but weren't lucky enough to have a talent show come along to thrust us into fame and recognition.

Due respect, but I believe it is presumptuous to assume that the only people who deserve great things are people who work their asses off to become technically proficient. There are lots of situations in life where an ancillary skill trumps a primary skill. Take business, for example, where an outgoing person with a great personality may have greater success than an MBA with a bad attitude. The former may do better than the latter because the people he deals with value his temperament more than they value his counterpart's credentials.

Again, no offence, but we lay people are not required to value the credentials of those we are fans of more than we value that which we like about them. I like Paul's voice. I like his look. I like his manner. I ... enjoy ... watching and listening to him. The fact that I don't care what he has studied should not be taken by you as a personal affront. It isn't even about you, or about the study of opera; it's simply about what I like. And I like Paul.

That doesn't mean that I don't like you. It doesn't mean that I don't admire your accomplishments. It only means that I have bad taste (in your eyes). And I'm okay with that. There's no reason for you not to be.

[jovan]

I only saw the YouTube clip and due to my location, I'm completely oblivious to the nature of the show, but here's my two cents anyway.

This reminds me of David Helfgott (of Shine fame). After the movie came out, he went on tour and played to full houses. I'm sure some people cried when he played at the oscars. However, he wasn't a good pianist. As a matter of fact, he was downright awful. His technique sucked and his interpretations were bizarre -- and not in a good way, like Glenn Gould. I cannot fathom that anyone familiar with Sviatoslav Richter or Martha Argerich's versions of Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto could have sat through a David Helfgott performance of the same piece without squirming from beggining to end.

But people didn't care. The people who got teary-eyed to Helfgott cared much more about the story than the music. When David walked onstage, he brought with him the drama of his life. Seeing the movie was absolutely necessary to derive any real appreciation of his performance.

People love underdog and ugly duckling stories. Would most people rather watch a movie about a shy cell phone salesman who rises to be an opera star or a movie about a super-talented child genius who practices eight hours a day and grows up to be a first-rate pianist?

With this Potts guy, the background story is supremely important. If no one knew who this guy was and all you had to judge him on was the sound of his performance, would people still cry? Of course not. This is as much theatre or cinema as is it music.

Unfortunately, I happen to be familiar with Franco Corelli and Fritz Wunderlich, and all I can see in the Potts video is uncontrollable shaking, poor vibrato, poor Italian and even poorer phrasing.

However, if you liked the performance, don't think I believe that my impression is more worthy than yours; we're just coming from different places and seeing different things. There's clever marketing and manipulation by the tv people, but in the end context is always important, even if it is fabricated.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by jovan

Unfortunately, I happen to be familiar with Franco Corelli...

You know, you work hard, you think you're pretty good, you're feeling pretty good about yourself...

Then you see that. And you understand why you went into teaching instead of singing.

I've heard Corelli sing this, of course, but never live. Holy fucking shit.

[StGermain]

As I see it, the question isn't is Paul Potts the Best! Tenor! Evar!!!, it's is he better than the competition he was up against (which didn't include Corelli). And not just is he better, but can he convince people that opera is better than a tiny girl singing "Somewhere Over The Rainbow". Apparently he can, because more people voted for him.

StG

[jovan]

Perhaps, but like I wrote, I don't know the show and who he was up against. It's entirely possible he was better than anyone else. In the great show that is YouTube, though, he is up against Corelli, sort of.

However, I have read comments comparing him to Pavarotti, and that's just absurd. Last time I checked, his Youtube video had over 3,000,000 views and 14,000 favourites. I think someone even started a thread about him on the SDMB.

I was mostly interested in this incredible outpour of positive comments for what was to my ears and eyes a rather poor performance.

[Mtgman]

Originally Posted by fachverwirrt

I have to take issue with this. He's not technically good, and the suggestion that he somehow deserves great things for being a regular guy who happens to sing better than people expect (but still not particularly well) is insulting to those of us who have worked our asses off to become technically proficient, but weren't lucky enough to have a talent show come along to thrust us into fame and recognition.

I'm happy for him. But a talent show's a talent show. He is not that good at what he does, and while there is no particular reason that he can't get better, as things stand, he does not deserve more than what he's got. Sing for the Queen, record your album; the rest shouldn't just be handed to him because it's "a nice story."

Consider this, Potts did put in his time. He worked his butt off(presumably) and he had some minor success with the Bath Opera, and he did a tour. He fell out of professional opera his first time around. But he tried out again, and in what is essentially a large, televised, audition for Cowell's label. It also serves as advertising for Cowell's label, so the human interest story is a big factor in who wins. Still, if Cowell, and the others in his production company, decide to take Potts on, that's their decision. I think he's still got a lot of work to do to get his breath support(he was really gasping during his finals performance, or it seemed so to me) and phrasing into professional performance state. He also needs a first rate language coach, he mangled a lot of the Italian. Nessun Dorma is a cakewalk of a song compared to a lot of what a leading man is expected to sing. All this may not matter if he doesn't get into actual opera though. He could spend the rest of his career making recordings in studios where they can cover a host of sins with technology.

So he'll either make it this time or he'll fall out again. I wish him well, and I don't think it's for any of us to decide there's one "real" or "honest" path to success in this business. God knows it's a crap shoot at every audition and the most talented and well-honed performer can be thrown over for someone who just has a slightly better "look" or "feel." I saw enough ups and downs of my first voice coach's career to know.

Enjoy,
Steven