Why does my cat flop to the ground on seeing me?

[Promethea]

Is it submission? Desire to have her tummy rubbed? (I don't think so with this one - attempts to do this often earn an irritated swipe) Or just a cat way of saying hi?

Kitty in question

[Frylock]

Mine does this too. It's like she just suddenly goes limp.

Yeah, so answer the OP's question.

-FrL-

[Red Barchetta]

My parent's cat does as well. In his case, it's because he loves being scratched (roughly, even) on his side. He gets so into it, he'll start crawling his way across the carpet, while still on his side. It's hilarious.

[Krokodil]

Cats are, science tells us, in league with the Devil. This one is obviously trying to devour your soul.

[Pushkin]

Is it a sign of submission?

"Here's my belly, I couldn't possibly mean you any harm!"

[Bryan Ekers]

I dunno, when we brought a kitten home as company for an older male cat, her response whenever he approached was to flip over in about 1.2 microseconds because this allowed her to use all four paws (and attached claws) in defense. Perhaps the cat sees you as a huge potential attacker and is getting into the optimal defensive position. Or he just wants a tummy rub.

[Trisha McMillan]

Originally Posted by Promethea

Is it submission? Desire to have her tummy rubbed? (I don't think so with this one - attempts to do this often earn an irritated swipe) Or just a cat way of saying hi?

My little monkey does this as well (ok she's a cat, we just call her monkey), and gets equally swipey when rubbed on the lower tummy, she seems to do this as a reflex when ever she's touched there, so I think it may just be quite a sensitive area.

I've always felt it was her way to greet me when she was feeling a tad pathetic and lazy, makes us come to them rather than them do the work. It's quite successful too as neither I nor the boy can resist a prone kitty.

This site seems to agree with me: cite

And Promethea, is she a Burmese, she looks very similar to my little one??

[kanicbird]

It is a invitation to play, either for petting or play fighting. From watching kittens the one on the ground is the one in defensive attack mode, able to bring 4 claws and one set of jaws to bear on the attacker, while the attacker must use at least 2 paws for locomotion to make up the final distance between them and to start the attack.

[Zsofia]

Our little orange guy does this all the time to us to have his belly rubbed. He does it to the other cat when they're wrestling so he can pretend to disembowel him.

In other words, either to allow you to pleasure him or to disembowel you. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

[chowder]

Fear, pure unadultered fear

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by Pushkin

Is it a sign of submission?

"Here's my belly, I couldn't possibly mean you any harm!"

For cats, "belly up" is the attack position; its the only position where they can use all their weapons at once. Exposing its belly is not a submissive posture in a cat, its an agressive (or playful) one, in stark contrast to the behavior of a dog.

Now, my cat used to go "flop" when I would head out the door, but it was because he knew that by being irresistably cute I would pause on my way out to pet him.

[Barrington]

One of my ex's cats does the "tickle my tummy" thing, but the odd thing is, she only does it outdoors. I've never seen her roll on her back indoors, yet every time I meet her in the garden, over she goes. I've never understood that.

Sorry, no pics at the moment.

[Promethea]

Originally Posted by Trisha McMillan

And Promethea, is she a Burmese, she looks very similar to my little one??

Nope, she's a black moggy born of a ginger/ white stripey mum and unknown Dad. I Burmese cats though - any pics of yours?

[CalMeacham]

We think it's submission. Our little Hestia does this when our old, crotchety Midnight passes by and hisses at her. She does NOT do it when she wants to play, as she often does with Clarence.


All respect to hello again, but I don't believe that "cat on back" is in attack position. Cats DO attack with both front paws (pulling in) and back paws {kicking out, an active scratching and potentially disemboweliung move), but this also exposes their vulnerable bellies, and I've never seen an alert and hostile cat do it -- they stay upright, backs raised, hair all puffed out (to make themselves seem larger), ears back (out of danger), and alert, always facing the danger spot. A cat on its vack is putting itself in a very vulnerable position, and is signifying submission and/or asking for a belly rub.

[Valgard]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

We think it's submission. Our little Hestia does this when our old, crotchety Midnight passes by and hisses at her. She does NOT do it when she wants to play, as she often does with Clarence.


All respect to hello again, but I don't believe that "cat on back" is in attack position. Cats DO attack with both front paws (pulling in) and back paws {kicking out, an active scratching and potentially disemboweliung move), but this also exposes their vulnerable bellies, and I've never seen an alert and hostile cat do it -- they stay upright, backs raised, hair all puffed out (to make themselves seem larger), ears back (out of danger), and alert, always facing the danger spot. A cat on its vack is putting itself in a very vulnerable position, and is signifying submission and/or asking for a belly rub.

This is what my understanding has always been. However there's also a little trigger that goes off at some point where "soft tummy getting rubbed = kitty about to get stomach attacked" and the cat will go from lying there purring happily away to suddenly latching on to your hand and scratching/biting. It's an instinctive reaction to the position; exactly how much a given cat will let you get away with is up to the individual.

[Hello Again]

http://www.catcaresociety.org/social.html

Read down to "Defensive aggression." I may have overstated the extent to which this is a purely agressive posture, but it is NOT a submissive posture.

I have two cats that fight all the time* and I am frequent witness to the behavior; cats will get to their sides, legs contracted (what we call "chambered" in Karate class!) prepared to fire on all cylinders.



*both fixed, one male, one female, both are known to instigate; the male is front-declawed.

[CalMeacham]

From your cite:

Defensive postures include crouching with the legs pulled in under the body, laying the ears back, tucking the tail, and possibly rolling slightly to the side. This is not the same as the submissive postures dogs show in that it will not "turn off" an attack from another cat. Continuing to approach a cat who is in this posture will likely precipitate an attack.

Sounds like what I described above, and not at all like a cat lying on the ground, belly up and all legs spread.

[CalMeacham]

And from this site:


http://home.ivillage.com/pets/cats/0,,mj2z,00.html

What is my cat thinking when he exposes his belly to me?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Feline behaviorist Pam Johnson-Bennett, author of Think Like a Cat, says:
The message a cat is conveying is based on specific circumstances.
For example:


• A relaxed cat will often stretch out onto her back and expose her tummy. This is the ultimate in relaxation and also indicates that the cat is totally secure in her surroundings.

• A cat will sometimes expose her stomach to an owner or a higher-ranking cat when confused about which direction the relationship is going. She is not really afraid enough to turn and run, but she's also not sure whether she will need to defend herself.

• A cat will expose her tummy to an owner when she isn't sure whether she wants to play or be affectionate.

• When confronted by an opponent, a cat will expose her belly as an indication that she doesn't want to initiate battle but will fight if the opponent decides to attack. This is an important signal because it gives the offensive cat the opportunity to back off. It isn't a submissive posture the way it is in canines, but it does indicate a reluctance to actively engage in confrontation.

• If a cat is in battle and there is no means of escape, she will roll onto her back in order to fully engage all of her weapons.

Every cat is an individual, and they use their methods of communication in slightly different ways. One cat may expose her belly to her owner or a companion cat when she wants to engage in play but isn't sure if the situation is appropriate. Other cats develop the habit of exposing the tummy after being trained by owners that this gets a positive response. Some cats are just not as sensitive about their tummies and will even allow petting. It's important to keep in mind, though, that when a cat does expose her stomach, it's not a good idea to pet her there because it could trigger the defensive response.

Best,
Pam Johnson-Bennett

Bolding mine -- notice that only after battle is engaged will the cat roll onto its back as a defensive move.

[Hello Again]

We may be talking at cross purposes. There are many positions a cat can take which include lying comfortably on its back "airing out the belly" as we call it. My point is only that such posture is not *inherently* submissive, as it is in dogs, and probably not submissive at all. As your cite notes, moving to the side or back is not intended as a submissive posture that thwarts an attack. My cite also notes that cats do not form firm hierarchies of dominance/submission.

A better description of what I was imagining is in the "intermale aggression" section, actually (emphasis added):

If an attack occurs, the attacker will usually jump forward, directing a bite to the nape of the neck, while the opponent falls to the ground on his back and attempts to bite and scratch the attacker's belly with his hind legs.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by valgard

cat will go from lying there purring happily away to suddenly latching on to your hand and scratching/biting

My mom's cat (well, actually she is my cat, but I didn't have the heart to take her with me when I moved out, since she has acreage to run around on) does the same thing, but the scratching/biting thing is her being playful (she's gentle). Another sign of playfulness is when she bats her tail around, like she's using it as a lure to catch bait.

My suggestion, when your cat flops, would be to get down on all fours and start stalking your cat. If she's like mine, you'll get a lively game of hide-and-go-seek out of it (I usually win).

[MLS]

One of our cats, when she's happy to see us, will literally fall down on her side, roll onto her back and curl her body in a "C" shape, her head around to the side. She usually says "mrrp" at the same time. She has always done this, since kittenhood, so I don't think it's anything she's learned. Of course, she does get a scritch under the chin and soft talking when she does it, so we've certainly reinforced it.

[Omegaman]

Originally Posted by chowder

Fear, pure unadultered fear

I'm going to have to disagree. Any being willing and capable of shitting on my shoe with perfect timing and dead on accuracy has nothing to fear from me.

[Cervaise]

A cat will sometimes expose her stomach to an owner or a higher-ranking cat when confused about which direction the relationship is going.

"Meow. Listen, monkey, we really need to have a talk about our relationship. Meow."

Words to make one's blood run cold...

[Valgard]

And I've just been rereading my Man-Kzin Wars books.

Nice monkey. Do not pet the Kzinti's tummy.

[Barrington]

Just to confirm the belly-up-as-defensive-aggressive thing, that position is the only way a cat can bring all its five weapons (mouth and paws) to bear simultaneously. Any attacker has the disadvantage of approaching with at least two paws still involved in locomotion and support, and they're going to be the hind paws. The hind paws of a cat are much stronger and more deadly than the fore paws, so it's an advantage to have them ready to use.

That's an explanation I've heard that makes sense to me.

[Wile E]

Okay, first let me say "cats are weird".

Cats are not dogs, one thing we can all agree on is it is not a submissive posture. I think in most cases your average house cat does this to elicit attention from it's pet human but sometimes the human mistakenly rubs the tummy or rubs the tummy too much and must be punished for taking liberties and not instinctively knowing when to stop. Bad human! Feel my pointy vengeance!

I remember seeing an article on feline behavior that showed several different facial expressions/ear positions and postures and what they meant. In some cases the difference was subtle. So I think that what most of you have said is right but there may are some subtle differences in the positions and expressions that change the meaning of the behavior from "pet me!" to "come closer so I can rip out your spleen!". So you really have to judge on a cat by cat basis and do not choose poorly.

[Magiver]

The cat wants attention. Nay.... the cat is demanding attention. If you aren't doing exactly what the cat wants then playful biting or pawing will ensue.

OR. he/she wants to play cat football, your call (look for goalposts).

I'm guessing the gesture of flopping down is a communication process. If they cat simply laid down in a casual manner it wouldn't convey much information. The smackdown is a non-verbal gesture to get you to notice. There's a good chance that a meow can be elicited if you cock your head sideways and say "what"?

[danceswithcats]

Pet me, dammit!

[elelle]

Originally Posted by Wile E

Okay, first let me say "cats are weird".

Cats are not dogs, one thing we can all agree on is it is not a submissive posture. I think in most cases your average house cat does this to elicit attention from it's pet human but sometimes the human mistakenly rubs the tummy or rubs the tummy too much and must be punished for taking liberties and not instinctively knowing when to stop. Bad human! Feel my pointy vengeance!

I remember seeing an article on feline behavior that showed several different facial expressions/ear positions and postures and what they meant. In some cases the difference was subtle. So I think that what most of you have said is right but there may are some subtle differences in the positions and expressions that change the meaning of the behavior from "pet me!" to "come closer so I can rip out your spleen!". So you really have to judge on a cat by cat basis and do not choose poorly.

In contrast to what Hello Again is saying, and more in alignment of the above post, and, as a person who has literally had cat's in the cradle from three month's on in life: Cats upping their belly to their known human buddy is a sign of friendship, especially if they twist about playfully, and, like one of mine does, bite yer toes in the morning. If you engage them, they will then think " Yeah, PLAY, which involves some gentle play biting and bunny kicks, usually with claws not drawn out, so, play. That play indicates that you are part of their family group.

It's not vengence, but simple cat play, they figure that if you get past their defenses, you are ready to play on their terms, and then up it a bit with the tooth and nail they are apt to. Mine react to:" No! too much claw! Fuck! Ouch!" and back off from it then. They can learn that, to my surprise.

I suppose to best sum it up, cat's don't roll on their belly with people they know to be submissive, but, rather, accepting.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by elelle

...

It's not vengence, but simple cat play, they figure that if you get past their defenses, you are ready to play on their terms, and then up it a bit with the tooth and nail they are apt to. Mine react to:" No! too much claw! Fuck! Ouch!" and back off from it then. They can learn that, to my surprise.

I suppose to best sum it up, cat's don't roll on their belly with people they know to be submissive, but, rather, accepting.

Yeah, I was being facetious with the "feel my pointy vengeance!" stuff but who knows what thoughts are really going through their brains?

[Tripler]

Mine does it because I have a telepathic forcefield that knocks all four-legged animals to the ground. I usually have to get really close to them (it's a weak field). No, really, I do!

I didn't realize it until just a few years ago, but every dog, cat, ferret, etc. just flops onto it's back. It even works on small children who haven't learned to walk yet. Yeah, I know what you're thinking: "Well, what about the zoo? Do zebras and bears flop over?" Sometimes, but like I said, I have to get really close up to them--zoos won't let me in that close. I don't think the zookeepers want others to test their powers without knowing whether or not they have it.

You probably have this power too, just haven't discovered it yet. . .

Tripler
. . . and you must only use your powers for good.

[David Simmons]

Originally Posted by Promethea

Is it submission? Desire to have her tummy rubbed? (I don't think so with this one - attempts to do this often earn an irritated swipe) Or just a cat way of saying hi?

Kitty in question

Your cat us undoubtely a a witches familiar.

While the familiar could take any animal form, right down to the smallest spider, the creature whose reputation suffered most from its role as the witch's evil accomplice was, of course, the cat. This association may have come about because cats were plentiful and were often kept as pets to help control the rodent population, an ever-present problem due to the lack of sanitation. Black cats were especially targeted as familiars because the color black was associated with the powers of darknes

She does this to entice you into reaching your hand down to rub her tummy so that she can tear your hand and arm to bloody shreds.

Beware.

[WarmNPrickly]

One of my ex's cats does the "tickle my tummy" thing, but the odd thing is, she only does it outdoors. I've never seen her roll on her back indoors, yet every time I meet her in the garden, over she goes.

My PJ is just like this. There is no way this is a defensive position, as his paws are in no way ready to attack. If I rub his tummy he will sprawl out even more so he clearly wants his tummy rubbed. This is definitely a position of completely being at ease in his surroundings. Maybe its not technically a submissive position but effectively it's saying "your my owner, rub my tummy". He does not do it for strangers that pass by.

Speaking of dog-like behavior, how many of you can take your kitty for a walk to the park without a leash?

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by elelle

In contrast to what Hello Again is saying, and more in alignment of the above post,

I suppose to best sum it up, cat's don't roll on their belly with people they know to be submissive, but, rather, accepting.

I must have been communicating poorly, because Wile E's post is pretty much what I was trying to say: while a belly-up position can mean many things (including but not limited to forms of aggression), the one thing it does not mean is "I submit to your superior social position within the group." In other words, it is not a submissive behavior.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by David Simmons

Your cat us undoubtely a a witches familiar. She does this to entice you into reaching your hand down to rub her tummy so that she can tear your hand and arm to bloody shreds.

Beware.

Fortunately my cat can counteract your witchie cat with pure goodness.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...3/Miss2001.jpg
If you look close you can see the halo over her head. Likes her tummy rubbed too!
Goodness and niceness always conquers badness and not-so-niceness every time!

[David Simmons]

Originally Posted by Jake

Fortunately my cat can counteract your witchie cat with pure goodness.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...3/Miss2001.jpg
If you look close you can see the halo over her head. Likes her tummy rubbed too!
Goodness and niceness always conquers badness and not-so-niceness every time!

Hah. Have you ever been lulled into a false sense of security.

Seriously, people believe the damndest things. My neighbor inherited a real nice cat, all black by the way, from his son and daughter-in-law. They had a baby and the daughter-in-law insisted that cat had to go because, you know, they sometimes suck the baby's breath away.

[akira5822]

Originally Posted by Krokodil

Cats are, science tells us, in league with the Devil. This one is obviously trying to devour your soul.

This explains alot, thanks for the science!!!

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Promethea

Is it submission? Desire to have her tummy rubbed? (I don't think so with this one - attempts to do this often earn an irritated swipe) Or just a cat way of saying hi?

Kitty in question

Your cat looks just like our Pretty Black Girl. And she does that too.