Screw your culture, take responsibility

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I really need to vent about this, so please excuse any ranting. Before I start, I have nothing against different cultures, I find them fascinating. But in my mind there’s a point where certain things override a person’s culture. Of course, as you’ll see by the end of this post, I’m a little upset and bitter, so my view’s a little skewed right now.

I started dating ‘Ken’ in May. He was here in America on a student visa from Japan, attending school to improve his English. Everything was great at first, we had a good time together and really clicked. But then things started going downhill, as they sometimes do. We just were incompatible about what we felt a relationship was about and we were fighting nearly every time we were together. About this time I found out I was pregnant. When I told him, he was actually very excited. For about a week, we enjoyed the idea of having a baby together. Unfortunately, it didn’t last.

We were sitting down one night discussing the future when he asked when we were going to get married. I was a little surprised at this and told him that I wasn’t sure I was ready for marriage, especially since we had been fighting so much. Well that was the wrong thing to say. He was just SHOCKED. How could I NOT want to get married? It was our duty. We were obligated to do this and the only other option (in his mind) was for me to get an abortion and we go our separate ways. Not liking the ‘marriage or abortion’ option, I told him bluntly that I was going to have the baby and I didn’t feel we HAD to get married because of it.

He went on a tirade, about how it was wrong and how society would pity the baby for coming from unmarried parents. My attempts to explain that’s not how it was here in America fell on deaf ears. He said he was Japanese and in Japan this did NOT happen. It was a dishonor to him AND his family, and if his parents found out, they would all be disgraced. At this point he hadn’t told anyone in his family. I told him he didn’t have to marry me to be a father but he said it was just wrong for a child’s dad to be just friends with the mom. When I asked him what he was going to do he said he was going home to Japan and never tell anyone about this.

At this point I was both hurt and angry. I told him he needed to take responsibility for the child, since we both had a part in it. He refused, we fought and he left. The next day I get a phone call from him. He wanted me to sign a ‘contract’ about the child. Apparently he had been speaking to some American friends and they told him about child support. He made it very clear to me that he did NOT want me touching his money and basically wanted me to sign a contract saying I’d never go after him for money. I told him ‘hell no’ and we got into another argument, with him screaming that he’d ‘fight’ me all the way to keep from paying any sort of support.

I haven’t heard from him since. I know he’s going home to Japan soon, so I did some research about child support over there. Apparently there is such a thing but the government refuses to enforce it. One site I found said that 80% of dads ordered to pay support pay nothing. And the woman has no recourse since the courts won’t pursue the money. More research led me to a site about international child support. It seems certain countries have agreements with the USA to enforce child support orders across the borders. Guess what country’s not on there? Yeah… So I basically have no recourse on this. My parents say it’s for the best since he’s a jerk. I kinda agree with them, and sinvceI have a very strong family support group here so I’m not overly worried about the future. But then there’s the part of me that’s angry that he’s getting off ‘scott free’ just because his culture dictates it so.

2

Wait…you said “screw your culture, take responsibility.” Sounds like that’s exactly what he was trying to do by proposing that the two of you get married.

And maybe this is something about his culture that you should have made sure you learned about BEFORE you started engaging in activities that could result in you getting pregnant and causing all these problems?

If you want to talk about responsibility, you need to start with yourself.

3

You know what happens when you have a kid with somebody that is not an American? They go home and you raise the kid alone without support from them. I’ve seen it happen,and you will have basically no recourse. Foreign governments make you go through their legal system, and you need to be there every time the next step in the process happens. That’s what happens in the countries that cooperate with you.

The latest one I’ve seen is a Irish guy that married during a pregnancy, and skipped back to Ireland in less than a year. She at least had a legal marriage. It may help if she ever tracks the guy down in Ireland, and tries to get some support for the child.

4

He has reproductive rights as do you. You’ve made your decision, now you seem to want to deny him his. I agree with Soapbox, responsibility starts with you. It’s your body.

5

First, soapbox what you say goes both ways. He had as much responsibility to learn about my ‘culture’ as I did. Maybe even more because he was IN America. I’d like to know how many inter-racial/cultural couples sit down and talk about ‘What if a baby happens?’ before they start sleeping together. Not very many, I’m sure. We took precautions. I managed to ‘beat the odds’ and be that lucky 3-5% error margin that got pregnant on birth control.

Harmonious, I knew that he’d be going back to Japan because his Visa was going to expire soon anyway. But what I’m angry about is him refusing to take any sort of responsibility for the child, be it financial, emotional or both. He’s going to go back home, forget he has a baby and never talk to or see them. He even told me to tell the kid he was dead so they wouldn’t hate him when they grew up.

6

This is the only attitude that I’ve seen from foreigners in visiting this country. They bail back to their country, and are never held responsible for the kid. They know damn well it’s almost impossible to make them accountable in anyway, if they stay out of America.

7

Wow, I’ve never heard of an American boy who first suggests marriage and then runs away. Yup, it’s just those damn Japanese.

Stop kidding yourself – this isn’t about “culture” – this is just another deadbeat dad bailing out. He’s luckier than most because he can get home to a place where you can’t reach him.

I suggest you communicate with his parents. Maybe they’d like to know they are about to become grandparents, and maybe they can exercise some influence to provide some support. Or maybe not, but it’s your only real shot.

Do you mind explaining why abortion is not an option for you?

8

I would not recomend communicating with his parents unless you are sure that he won’t commit suicide if you do so.

9

I have no way of communicating with his parents. And I wouldn’t do that because as upset as I am, I have no desire to utterly ‘ruin’ his life in Japan.

And boyo, as far as my choice not to have an abortion, that’s my own personal decision.

10

Just out of curiosity, did you do any research on his claims about his culture and whether or not it would be considered shameful for him to have fathered a child out of wedlock? Because if that really is true, it sounds like he was trying to take responsibility in the way his culture finds acceptable, by marrying you. He may have real issues with how his family and friends will react to this. Mind you, I’m not absolving him of his share of support, but I can sympathize. After all, he is going to be living there, and it is hard being the subject of disapproval and gossip. You are hurt and angry, and it sounds like he was too. It also sounds like you have trouble talking without fighting at this point. Is there any way the two of you can get together in a mediated session, with a counselor or couples therapist? You may not be able to resolve things in a way that will make both of you happy, but if you are going to have a child, it would be better if you could at least be on speaking terms with each other before he leaves the country, and maybe things will gradually improve.

11

One of the most important things that you can do is to get a medical history of the father and his family and the grandparents siblings. You need as much information as you can get for your child in the future.

As for your feelings, anger is quite reasonable on both sides. You won’t cooperate with his cultural traditions. (I think you are wise.) And he won’t support the child voluntarily. What a jerk! Your chances of getting that changed – especially without a lot of expense – are slim. He really has you in a tough position. You may just have to accept that there isn’t much that you can do about it.

There is one thing, however:

Well that’s just too bad. If he wants the respect of this child, he will have to earn it in the usual way, right? Let him know that you will not be lying to your child about who and where his father is. His child will judge what kind of man he is. Maybe some day he will travel to meet him and his family.

There are things that you can’t control and there are things that he can’t control. I wish you much luck.

12

Getting married when someone gets pregnant is hardly the responsible thing to do. As if getting married makes things magically better for all involved. No doubt it may help in the long term (statistics may or may not prove this), but the instant requirement to get married? Sounds so… faux. The only thing it’ll do short-term is allow his friends and family to say “way to go sport!”. Then what? There’s still some hostility to resolve, and now a baby on the way! :eek:

13

Sounds like it will be tough, but good luck, Obligate Carnivore. I’m proud of you for taking responsibility. I hope things turn out okay.

14

Long-time resident of Japan checking in.

I sympathize with you. Finding out that you are pregnant can often cause a lot of worrying and anxiety even in the best of circumstances, and then throw in the additional worries of facing raising a child by yourself would certainly be tought.

Unfortunately, as your research has shown, it’s going to be almost impossible to collect child support. Courts aren’t aggressive at getting non-custodian parents to pay support in the case of divorce, and for unmarried couples then it’s almost unheard of.

From a Japanese perspective, he did try to take responsibility. Getting married after a baby is conceived is common here and there isn’t any particular shame about it. Unfortunately, refusing to get married (which isn’t what you did, but he could think that’s what you did) then means that the mother assumes responsibility.

Japanese culture treats divorce and unmarried couples differently. There isn’t a cultural basis for emotional involvement after a separation. There aren’t court-decreed visitation rights, for example, and mothers will often refuse to allow the father to see his children after the divorce. There isn’t a common word for a step-father. A mother’s new husband is called the father.

While I completely sympathize with you, from his perspective it’s not him who is behaving irresponsibly. He’s offered getting married to take responsibility and is in shock that you aren’t following what he believes is in the best interest of your child. I wouldn’t be surprised if he were saying the same thing, on how he wished you would screw your culture and take responsibility.

Feel free to email me or IM me if you have any questions concerning Japanese culture. I really wish that there were an easy solution, but I don’t see one.

I hope thing go well. Take care.

15

You can’t make your decisions on the assumption that your reasonable acts will result in insane responses. Besides, you will NEVER know what his response will be. If you follow Shoshona’s advice, you are pretty much doing exactly as daddy wants – pretending the guy is already dead.

This is not about destroying the guy’s life in Japan – this is about doing what you are able to get support for your child – it really is an obligation on your part, IMO. Frankly, making him squirm uncomfortably in front of his parents should be the least of your worries. Besides, if you inform them, and somehow the word spreads to his community and his life is “ruined”, it won’t be your doing. It will be his parents, and ultimately him of course who must take responsibility for his actions.

And this whole “ruin” thing – you’re taking HIS word on the consequences to him. Somehow I find it hard to believe that this hasn’t happened to many Japanese men, who I’m sure haven’t all committed suicide.

And if he does off himself – your child should inherit.

Why are you suddenly concerned with fucking with this guy? You weren’t before.

16

Just an FYI, In the Japanese culture, there is generally little to no stigma attached to abortion. In fact, at least when I lived in Japan in the early 1990’s, abortion was a pretty common form of birth control. At least back then, the pill was difficult to obtain.

17

From reading the thread, it appears to me that **Obligate Carnivore ** isn’t the only one who knows little or nothing about Japanese culture. What she described in the OP is exactly the situation as the Japanese see it.

In the first place, culture isn’t some patina lightly washed over a society – culture goes to the very core of a person’s identity. What’s on the surface today in Japan is westernization. Just under that surface of bright lights and iPods and Coca Cola is a thousand-year-old system of beliefs, taboos and customs that is still being handed down from generation to generation. The traditional family hold Ken’s family has on him and his beliefs is stronger than anything people in America can imagine. We talk about “family values,” but American family values pale in comparison to those in many older societies.

It’s probably not fair to castigate **Carnivore ** so severely for her failure to understand Ken’s culture. I’m willing to bet that most of the bickering and fighting she described in the OP had to do with her “traditional role” – that is, a subservient one – in their relationship. Most Japanese men won’t consider marrying an American or European woman because they are confrontationally independent. The “battle of the sexes” that we make jokes about and sometimes even celebrate is, in Japan, a shameful denigration of women’s role in society. What Americans see as “progress” in women’s rights in Japan is viewed there as a breakdown in civilization.

To condemn Ken for allegedly fleeing his responsibility is an example of the worst kind of ethno-centric prejudice borne entirely of ignorance. Ken discharged his duty in the only honorable way he knew. If **Carnivore ** wasn’t willing to do the civilized thing (in his view), certainly that’s her choice, but he did give her a choice.

18

There is blame to be assigned on all sides, it seems to me … maybe Obligate Carnivore had no business risking a pregnancy with someone from such a different culture and maybe she should be more understanding now. Maybe Ken had no business risking a pregnancy with someone from such a different culture and maybe he should be more understanding now.

But what’s done is done. Castigating the parents won’t change the fact that an innocent baby who deserves the best possible start in life is coming into the world.

Obligate Carnivore, have you considered adoption? There are so many families out there who are desperate to have a child. You can choose an open adoption if you prefer.

If you choose to raise this child on your own, I wish you the very best. Just make sure that you are choosing what is best FOR YOUR CHILD, and not just what you want to do.

Raising a kid on your own, especially if money is tight, is a daunting task. And that is assuming your child doesn’t have any special issues. What if he or she does? My son came within a hair’s breadth of being diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome in his preschool years; I will forever remember the nights I spent feeling tears rolling out of the corners of my eyes as I stared bleakly at the bedroom ceiling, unable to sleep because there was something wrong with my child. If I hadn’t had my husband lying beside me in bed, I don’t know how I would have avoided cracking up.

I hope this doesn’t come across as “oh, you can’t be a good mom - give your kid away, loser!” Heck no. You may be a wonderful parent. And for sure, there are TONS of single parents out there who do a great job. But make no mistake, you are in shouldering a huge burden that will last decades if you keep this child. It will affect and possibly constrain everything that happens to you in the coming years: your ability to find a spouse, get additional education, earn a living, work late nights to “get ahead” on your job, travel, buy a house … you name it.

19

That’s how it used to be in America. Illegitimate children were indeed stigmatized, and you heard about couples who “had to” get married. So it’s not just a Japanese thing.

20

It still is that way, just not as severe, or as frequent.