Lacking the gene to enjoy fresh tomatoes?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

elfbabe and I were musing just the other day about how we enjoy virtually all products derived from the humble tomato, save for the fresh tomato itself.

Over the years we've tried very, very hard to enjoy fresh tomatoes. We've tried about every variety out there: The much-maligned store-bought ones, the fresh from the local garden ones, the premium designer-organic-greenhouse variety, the yellow ones, the green ones, etc. etc.

Each time we both conclude: I can eat it but it sure has that nasty fresh tomato taste. Then we wander off to enjoy sun-dried tomatoes, tomato juice, tomato soup, tomato sauces made from fresh tomatos, & even home-made salsa, as long as the tomato bits have steeped in the lime juice (or other acid) for long enough.

Is there some sort of genetic basis for not enjoying the taste of fresh tomatoes? Perhaps something similar to those folks whose genetic makeup leaves them tasting cilantro as nastily soapy?

Or is there another explanation for our not liking the fresh version of the wonderfully tasty tomato, even though we long to?

[pool]

Well I don't know the answer but I'm with you. I love everything made from tomatoes but I can't stand a fresh tomato.

I did see this on wiki:

Examples of food containing these glutamate (and thus strong in the savoury taste) are parmesan and roquefort cheese as well as soy sauce and fish sauce. It is also found in significant amounts in various unfermented foods such as walnuts, grapes, broccoli, tomatoes, and mushrooms, and to a lesser degree in meat. The glutamate taste sensation is most intense in combination with sodium. This is one reason why tomatoes exhibit a stronger taste after adding salt. Sauces with savoury and salty tastes are very popular for cooking, such as tomato sauces and ketchup for Western cuisines and soy sauce and fish sauce for East Asian and Southeast Asian cuisines. Since not every glutamate produces a savoury-like taste sensation, there is continuing investigation into the exact mechanism of how the savoury taste sensation is produced.

[pool]

Or maybe this would solve the problem:

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/2003/B...cker1feb03.htm

[Random]

Could it be that the slimy mouth-feel of fresh tomatoes might be a part of this? The fact that you like tomato juice, which is uncooked and not otherwise denatured (with added acids, for example) raises this question.

How do you react to a slice of tomato that has been mildly cooked (say in the middle of a grilled-cheese sandwich)?

[Duckster]

With vegemite?

Maybe hypnosis?

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by Random

The fact that you like tomato juice, which is uncooked and not otherwise denatured (with added acids, for example) raises this question.

I am not familiar with any fresh, uncooked tomato juice. All canned tomato juice is cooked (pasteurized), and most are loaded with salt.

[Polycarp]

A quick thought: what kind of soil, and in particular what bedrock, do you have there on the shores of Lake Michigan? It was my experience that I never liked the taste of tomatoes, whether canned, fresh, local hothouse, garden, shipped in, or whatsoever. Then I moved to an area where the soils are clay-loam rather than loam-sand and the bedrock is not limestone, as it had been all through my childhood, youth, and young adulthood. And the fresh tomatoes here are sweeter, not as bitter-acid-y, and generally good eating.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Fear Itself

I am not familiar with any fresh, uncooked tomato juice. All canned tomato juice is cooked (pasteurized), and most are loaded with salt.

Although I grant you the salt (although that does not seem relavent, unless Qad likes salted fresh tomatoes, which, if true, I assume he would have pointed out), pasteurization does not equal cooking.

Would you call pasteurized milk cooked milk?

Seeded, pureed fresh tomatoes results in a liquid that (when salted) tastes pretty much like canned tomato juice.

[ZipperJJ]

Not to turn this into an IMHO but...

If you have a garden, you should try growing some paste tomatoes (scroll down). My neighbor grew, I think, San Marzano tomatoes this year and they have a totally unique taste. They're meaty and nearly seedless. My whole family is addicted to them (I get to keep whatever ends up growing on my side of the fence!)

I agree with Random - it might be a mouth-feel thing. San Marzanos are all tomato, none of the extra crap.

[Martin Hyde]

What's interesting is I'm generally known as someone who will eat just about anything, I grew up in a rural area with grandparents who pickled just about everything and served just about everything you could imagine; as an adult I've traveled extensively and have never feared trying exotic foods.

But something that millions of people eat, and love, every single day, I just can't stand. The fresh tomato. I think I gave up on the fresh tomato sometime around the end of High School. Prior to that, there were still incidents of me "trying to force one down" just to see if I could somehow learn to enjoy them. It just never took. I wasn't a picky kid who refused to try new things, I tried fresh tomatoes in various ways and eventually just plain gave up.

Since then, I think I've firmly established a general aversion to tomatoes. What's weird is, liked QtM I can enjoy raw tomato if it's in a salsa of some sort (where it has been heavily saturated by other things), I can enjoy tomatoes in a stew (where they still maintain a lot of their original texture.)

I've never gotten it checked into, but I have also wondered if it's possible I have a very mild tomato allergy (I doubt mine is serious as I've heard people with serious tomato allergy have been hospitalized after a few seeds or juice from a fresh tomato are left on a sandwich when a food worker removes tomato from an order after forgetting said order was without tomato); this comes about because of some work I did in a kitchen many years ago. Anytime I had to slice a bunch of tomatoes, I noticed that a rash broke out on my hand. I've heard of people breaking into hives from eating tomato, if they're allergic. But can simple skin-contact with tomato juice cause a reaction? This was definitely brought on by something to do with me cutting the tomatoes up, because I cut up a lot of different veggies in my day and only tomatoes will cause the characteristic rash on my hands.

[Voyager]

Fascinating. My wife also loves tomato products but doesn't like fresh tomatoes, which I grow. I love them - from my garden, not from the store.

Perhaps it is genetic. She definitely isn't allergic to them. One daughter loves fresh tomatoes also, I'm not sure about the other one.

Those who don't like them - do your kids or parents do?

ETA: My parents liked them, especially my dad.

[Martin Hyde]

My dad loved tomatoes, he would eat them with peanut butter, even.

My mom hates tomatoes. Interestingly she had two siblings, a brother and a sister. The sister also hated fresh tomatoes, the brother loved them and wouldn't eat a sandwich without one.

Her father and mother both liked tomatoes (to the best of my knowledge) although I'll have to ask my mom, I think it may be possible my grandfather didn't like tomatoes--but he was a picky eater in general. I know that my grandmother on my mother's side liked tomatoes because she used to grow them and put them on her salads and sandwiches frequently.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by Random

Although I grant you the salt (although that does not seem relavent, unless Qad likes salted fresh tomatoes, which, if true, I assume he would have pointed out), pasteurization does not equal cooking.

Would you call pasteurized milk cooked milk?

Improper terminology on my part. Canned foods are sterilized at temperatures above 250°, while pasteurization of milk occurs at 161°. So while milk may not be cooked, all canned foods certainly are.

Seeded, pureed fresh tomatoes results in a liquid that (when salted) tastes pretty much like canned tomato juice.

Not to me.

[jjimm]

This is indeed interesting: I like fresh tomatoes, but my brother and sister absolutely hate them. Yet both will eat cooked and processed tomatoes happily.

[Telperien]

Odd. I was talking to my parents about this a few days ago while we were eating salad. They both love any and all things tomato; I shun only fresh tomatoes and tomato juice.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I'm with the OP. I simply cannot bring myself to eat a tomato. Not on a sandwich or any other way. But almost all tomato derived foods I like very much (and as mentioned even salsa where it is finely diced...big slimy bits in salsa I avoid).

[CalMeacham]

I don't like fresh tomatoes, which my parents, sister, and wife al regard as blasphemy (the innate superiority of fresh Jersey tomatoes is taken by akll of them as a given). But it's true.

Nevertheless,I LOVE cooked tomatoes -- stewed, in an Italian Dinner, Pizza, Spaghetti. I like ketchup.


Part of it is, I'm sure, the different slimy feel of tomatoes and its gelid interior. Part, I suspect, comes from seeing a hornworm boring its way through a tomato when I was a kid, which freaked me out.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

It's not the mouth feel, believe me! I enjoy raw oysters, for og's sake!

And I've tried fresh tomatoes from all over the nation, and in Europe.

Salt makes them less unpalatable, but that nasty fresh tomato taste is still there.

I do enjoy other foods that are high in glutamate, like soy and fish sauce.

Glad to know there are others like me and mine out there!

[Jackmannii]

We need more clarification as to what the "nasty" part of fresh tomato taste is like.

There are people for whom the "acid"/tangy part is great (including me) and others who can't stand it, and like pronounced sweetness or relatively unflavored ("mild/subacid") varieties. The white or yellow ones are typically the most bland.

My problem has been finding really tasty varieties to grow in my garden. This year was pretty decent (mostly because I had a number of cherry types, often the most flavorful) but the vaunted "black" tomatoes were only moderately enjoyable (I had one called "Paul Robeson"). I think soil and weather influence tomato taste as much as their genetic component.

By the way, I like good fresh tomatoes, salsa, tomato sauce etc., but wouldn't go near tomato juice. Brauuugh!

[An Arky]

Wow, I'm almost the opposite. I love fresh tomatoes, but tomato sauce, juice, soup, etc. are kind of meh to me. Maybe, as Polycarp touched on, it's because I grew up where the tomatoes are dang good eats (Arkansas), which might be a soil/climate thing.

[Lunar Saltlick]

Depends on the tomato. The ones we grow in our garden are meaty and somewhat sweet. I sprinkle salt or pepper on them and they're delicious fresh.

But everybody has stuff they hate to consume. Some people can't bear to look at broccoli. The very thought of mayo makes me ill. I think we let ourselves be finicky because we easily can. I've had mayo plenty of times, including special-flavored, homemade, etc., etc., and I still hate the stuff. I doubt it's genetic. I bet mayo would be a godsend if I was starving. Would that just be a case of hunger overcoming my revulsion, and not a case of my taste changing? I'm not sure. I'm thinking that if I forced myself sufficiently, I really could learn to like it. I just don't wanna make that much effort. I don't have to. There's no need. I think that probably holds true for most everybody and the edible they find inedible. And the fact that I probably could like mayo makes me think there's no mayo-liking gene that I lack. ;-)

That said, there's a whole science of taste about which I am completely and utterly ignorant. Maybe it is all genetic.

[wolfman]

This is interesting. I know what you are talking about, but I can't describe it either, but for me I like them both.

People have told me I'm a bullshitting snob for years when I tell them a perfect salsa has both canned and fresh tomatoes. The canned has a condensed but natural sweetness. The fresh just has 'tomatoey freshness' the canned stuff lacks. Since most canned Tomatoes are over-ripe I have always figured it is some volitile compound that disappears as the tomato ages.(And since tomatoes are Nightshade family I have always wondered if it is some low-dose Poison I like )

[Eliahna]

Originally Posted by An Arky

Wow, I'm almost the opposite. I love fresh tomatoes, but tomato sauce, juice, soup, etc. are kind of meh to me. Maybe, as Polycarp touched on, it's because I grew up where the tomatoes are dang good eats (Arkansas), which might be a soil/climate thing.

I'm with An Arky, except I'd go so far as to say that I hate tomato sauce and soup, and don't care for tomato juice. I don't dislike all cooked tomato products, and will happily eat bolognese sauce*, etc. However, give me a fresh tomato and I'll happily munch away. When I was a child, we grew cherry tomatoes and I used to pick them off the vine and eat them by the handful.

*I like tomatoes and some tomato products, but they don't really like me and I have to keep my consumption to a minimum, lest I suffer the consequences.

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

Is there some sort of genetic basis for not enjoying the taste of fresh tomatoes? Perhaps something similar to those folks whose genetic makeup leaves them tasting cilantro as nastily soapy?

Is there an actual genetic basis for this? I'd always suspected that, but hadn't seen any scientific backing for this. I just googled and got lots of second hand cites "I read that..." or "I heard that...."

Can anyone supply an actual cite for this (not to doubt you, good Doctor)? Also, are there any other foods that have a genetic basis for an aversion? Beyond the noble fresh tomato, of course.

[tbdi]

I don't understand what people mean by the taste of a fresh tomato. To me, fresh tomato is completely tasteless and just has an unpleasant texture. I always remove tomato slices from anything I order because they do nothing but detract from whatever they are on. I accept that I have to deal with them in salsa and similar things but they're generally chopped up small enough to be less of a problem there anyway.

On the other hand any sort of tomato juice or sauce is good, as is any form of cooked tomato.

I thought I was the only one as I've never met anybody else who didn't like fresh tomato or who didn't give me odd looks or comments when I removed the slices from hamburgers and sandwiches.

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by tbdi

I don't understand what people mean by the taste of a fresh tomato. To me, fresh tomato is completely tasteless and just has an unpleasant texture.

That'd be an under-ripe, picked-too-early tomato found at the grocery store or in a restaurant. This is why I though I hated tomatoes for most of my life.

-FrL-

[The Blue-Sighted Shadow]

I have a severe (non-allergic) reaction to fresh tomatoes. My body will expel them as quickly as possible. If I manage to choke them down, they won't stay down long. I've attempted a wide variety of tomatoes, many of them heirlooms, few of them store bought. If I reacted to an unknown food the same way I do to tomatoes, I would assume that it was poisonous/toxic, and wouldn't attempt to eat it again. On the other hand, I can eat and enjoy most tomato-based foods, except stewed tomatoes and some sauces. Maybe it's a sensitivity to the night-shade family?

[AHoosierMama]

I have two words for you.
Bacon Salt.
Better than gene therapy.

[Chronos]

And the fresh tomatoes here are sweeter, not as bitter-acid-y, and generally good eating.

This post really makes me wonder, since "bitter-acid-y" is a contradiction: With normal taste buds, at least, a food simply cannot be both bitter and acidy. Is this maybe a clue to why tomatoes taste bad to some people, that maybe their bitter taste buds are reacting to something other than base?

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by Chronos

This post really makes me wonder, since "bitter-acid-y" is a contradiction: With normal taste buds, at least, a food simply cannot be both bitter and acidy. Is this maybe a clue to why tomatoes taste bad to some people, that maybe their bitter taste buds are reacting to something other than base?

To me, "acidy" implies "bitter."* This is because I do not really know what "bitter" means. I bet I am not the only one.

-FrL-

*Those quotes are scare quotes.

[Tuckerfan]

There is, IIRC, a genetic type called "super taster" who tend to find certain types of foods unpalatible. Quite simply, it's not a case of you simply not liking such things, your genetic make up is such that you find them pretty much abhorrent. It is possible that such a thing is why many of us don't like 'maters in their raw, unprocessed form.

[cher3]

I hated them as a kid. I gradually learned to accept them in semi-cooked form in soups and such. As an adult I would never seek them out, but don't usually remove them from sandwiches, if they happen to be there. I can eat tomatoes in a salad, if they are halfway decently ripe. If not, I usually leave them.

The exception is the type of salad made with fresh tomatoes, fresh mozzarella and basil drizzled with a vinaigrette. I make that myself sometimes, with the best tomatoes I can find.

So I don't think it's genetic. I think some people just learn to like or accept them and some don't

[Duke of Rat]

Another "I like any tomato except raw". Raw tomato chunks ruin my salad, raw tomato slices ruin my burger. Yet I just made a huge batch of marinara sauce and used it and its variations on almost everything for a week. Tomato juice, catsup, salsa, stewed tomatoes, cooked tomatoes, I like 'em all.

My mom could eat a raw tomato like an apple, just loved them. We always had tomatoes in the garden growing up. Over the years, I've come to like many of the foods I didn't like when I was young, but I just can't get there with tomatoes.

To me, it's about the same reaction I have with most wine. Something about the bitter/acidic taste both have just doesn't work for me. I admit I can choke down wine better than raw tomatoes, but I don't really like it to the point it'd ever be my drink of choice. Something like a dill pickle, much more acidic and bitter, is just fine with me, so I'm still not quite on the mark.

There was a pit thread a while back about picky eaters, and IIRC tomatoes were the topic of much debate in that thread. As much as I've tried, I just don't like them.

[Merkwurdigliebe]

Count me in your camp QtM. I have exactly the same symptoms. I eat all of the other glutamate including foods. I love broccoli and other really hearty things. I also love cooked tomatoes. I don't like sun-dried ones but that's mainly a texture thing. I'll try to find the best way to describe tomato. To me, it is vaguely reminiscent of the way garbage smells. This isn't rancid garbage, but some-what fresh garbage.


There's simply something vaguely reminiscent of that. That's the only way I can describe it. I also like tomato juice. Well, I don't like it but it's okay. The texture and mouth feel isn't the best either.

I have tried on various occasions. I ate a bit the other day while I was sick. I wanted to give it a shot, and for the first time, I didn't find it abhorrent. So maybe I'll give it a shot next time. I just feel like an idiot always picking the tomatoes out of my salad. They come in EVERYTHING!

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

There is, IIRC, a genetic type called "super taster" who tend to find certain types of foods unpalatible. Quite simply, it's not a case of you simply not liking such things, your genetic make up is such that you find them pretty much abhorrent. It is possible that such a thing is why many of us don't like 'maters in their raw, unprocessed form.

This is what I was thinking as well.

Taste Matters

"About 25 percent of the population are genetically programmed to be super tasters who sharply detect bitter compounds in food," said Adam Drewnowski, Ph.D., director of the Nutritional Sciences Program at the University of Washington in Seattle, and an expert on taste and food choices. "Half the population detects these compounds to some degree, and another 25 percent don't detect them at all."

What makes super tasters so bitterly sensitive to some foods? Compared to their less discriminating brethren, super tasters' tongues are crammed with many more fungiform papillae, the little bumps on the tongue that house the taste buds. About two-thirds of super tasters are female and the hypersensitivity fades with age. One theory is that long ago super tasting served as a species survival mechanism. "Perhaps the characteristic discouraged pregnant women from eating poisonous plants or berries, which tend to taste bitter," said Drewnowski.

Ironically, many of these bitter substances are disease-fighting phytochemicals that may be beneficial to health. Super tasters can help the vegetables go down and optimize nutrient value by adding a bit of butter or oil to their dish. According to Drewnowski, "Fat improves the flavor of vegetables by masking the bitter taste and helps promote absorption of fat-soluble phytochemicals such as the beta carotene in carrots, the lycopene in tomatoes, and the lutein in spinach."

[DrFidelius]

Raw tomatoes taste green. And not in a good way, like broccoli does. Just a cold, slimey green.

[bump]

I'm another one in QtM's camp. Raw tomatoes just taste funky to me. Not necessarily gaggingly horrible, but just not good either.

In a lot of ways, they taste like a tomato plant's leaves smell to me. Not sweet, not really tangy, just strange.

Some are definitely better/worse than others; I noticed that when I was making sauce out of the ones from my garden, that the beefsteak ones tasted much funkier than the paste ones. (yes, I tasted them in spite of not really liking raw ones)

And, FWIW, I absolutely adore many other glutamate containing foods (parmesan cheese, walnuts, fish sauce, etc...), but just not raw tomatoes.

Cooked ones of just about any stripe are terrific, while the only way I can hack raw ones is in salsa, and even then they have to be fairly small.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

A supertaster I'm not. I can detect bitter, no problem. But I enjoy it! I drink tonic water (with quinine) because I like it, I've been known to knock back a Moxie with its gentian root flavor from time to time, and tend to slather on the strongly flavored food enhancers like vegemite, soy & fish sauce, and the more pungent of cheeses. Espresso is my default caffeine beverage, consumed on a daily basis.

I need to do an experiment: See how long it takes a slice of fresh tomato to become palatable to me when soaked in lemon or lime juice.

As to the cilantro issue: I don't find any clear description of a "cilantro tasting gene" in the literature, just references to the trait of finding cilantro to be nasty to have a familial component, implying there may be an inherited basis, among other factors.

[John Mace]

I think everyone has these types of tasting quirks, QtM. I absolutely cannot stand the taste of cooked carrots. But I do like raw carrots or carrot juice. Most of us couldn't handle eating butter by itself, but how freakin' good is butter on freshly baked bread?

[SharkB8]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

Or is there another explanation for our not liking the fresh version of the wonderfully tasty tomato, even though we long to?

Perhaps it's the fact that someone could slice a fresh tomato in half and spit on it and you'd be none the wiser.

[WarmNPrickly]

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

Raw tomatoes taste green. And not in a good way, like broccoli does. Just a cold, slimey green.

Are you saying you are a synesthete?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I'm another who has preferences opposite to the OP.

[tbdi]

Originally Posted by Frylock

That'd be an under-ripe, picked-too-early tomato found at the grocery store or in a restaurant.

No, that'd be every uncooked tomato I've ever tasted all my life which covers a wide range of ripeness and freshness. They are all tasteless to me.

[Quartz]

Just a thought, but are you perhaps not liking the taste of the skin?

[Mr. Goob]

I amnot a freak! I have brethren.

I can't stand a raw or fresh tomato. I'm also very stingy when using herbs and spices. A little goes a long way for me. I wonder if it's connected.

[samclem]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

Is there some sort of genetic basis for not enjoying the taste of fresh tomatoes? Perhaps something similar to those folks whose genetic makeup leaves them tasting cilantro as nastily soapy?

Great Og, man! I've just about finished a report on asparagus pee--those who generate odiferous urine after eating, those who don't, those who can smell it, and those who can't. Now you have to bring up something else.

BTW, I love fresh tomatoes from the garden as do my parents and three siblings. But, I have one out of three kids who can't stand them.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by Quartz

Just a thought, but are you perhaps not liking the taste of the skin?

Nope. I've eaten them with and without skin. No significant difference in the dislike.

[SharkB8]

Getting to the genetics thing...I often wondered that. Both of my parents LOVED raw tomatoes, and stewed tomatoes, and big hunk sof tomatoes in pizza sauce. My mom said she'd take a shaker ofsalt out to the garden and go to town, but I HATE tomatoes. Like the OP, I can do gazpacho, salsa, SOME pasta dishes with red sauce, sun-dried tomatoes, catsup, verious other tomato-based foods. I feel similar about bananas. I sort of like them, I'll eat them, mainly becasue I find them filling and a nice quick snack when I'm in a rush, but I prefer things made with or made out of bananas. My brother also hates tomatoes...maybe it's like twins and skips a generation.

[PatriotX]

My son and I share the OP's love-hate relationship w/ the tomato.

Good in things & with things, but not so much by themselves


And cilantro tastes soapy to me - but I'vel earned to enjoy the flavor.

When I was a kid, before I knew what cilantro was, I thought that all Mexican restaurants had problems rinsing their little salsa bowls.

[whiterabbit]

And here I thought I was a freak of nature; I can't eat fresh tomatoes, but I will eat tomato sauces (though if they have chunks of tomato I eat around those, and that goes for salsas and such as well). I don't like ketchup, either. I wish I liked tomato. They're so pretty. But I just can't do it.