Flat panel TV surround -- Center Channel on TV?

[squeegee]

My current setup is a 36" 4:3 TV, HTR + surround speakers. All of this lives in custom cabinetry, with space for the HTR + mains in the cabinet, and the TV providing the center channel via a center channel input.

(For those who don't know: a "center channel input" is basically a speaker connector on the back of a TV that allows a Home Theater Receiver (HTR) to drive the TV's speakers directly as the center channel in a surround setup. There's a menu setting in the TV that turns off the internal amplifier and listens to this input instead. Volume is then controlled from HTR, not from the television)

I've asked the cabinet maker to give me a price on removing some panels to make the TV space larger, about 52w x 35h. This will fit about a 50" flat panel television.

I'm currently looking at LCD and/or plasma televisions, and noticed that most or even all sets don't seem to have a center channel input. Just HDMI+stereo or component+stereo. See [url=http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665153949]here [/url for an example (click on "Owner's Manual" (pdf) ).

Can these sets even be used as a center channel speaker? Would the HDMI cable carry the center channel, and the TV would play that? Or a mono'd stereo preamp-out from the HTR? Or do I just need to budget ($$ and cabinet space) for a center channel speaker?

I'm surprised that big ticket TVs such as these seem to not be HT ready, but instead lean toward a stereo-only customer. Am I wrong?

What I do *not* want is to have to control the volume for the TV via the TV controls, and the surround speakers via the HTR.

[Hunter Hawk]

Why couldn't you just use a dedicated speaker for the center channel? I'd imagine you'd end up with better audio quality than if you relied on the built-in speakers in the TV.

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Hunter Hawk

Why couldn't you just use a dedicated speaker for the center channel? I'd imagine you'd end up with better audio quality than if you relied on the built-in speakers in the TV.

I could -- its mentioned in the OP -- but the center channel from the TV speakers seemed fine in the old setup, its mostly used for speech, so medium speakers are fine. I actually had a big honkin center channel speaker hooked, (this one), and after a while ended up not using it in favor of the TV speakers. This dedicated CC speaker was just too powerful, and too directional, if you can believe it -- the center of the listening space would get blasted, and anyone off-center didn't get the dialog as clearly.

(let me also add here that this setup spends 80% of its time showing cartoons or TV sitcoms. Not exactly theater material.)

Its mostly a matter of planning and space -- I need to figure out what size TV will fit in that cabinet, and if I must have a CC speaker, that needs to be taken into account.

[Hunter Hawk]

Originally Posted by squeegee

I could -- its mentioned in the OP --

Sorry, I totally missed that. (Late night last night and I haven't had any caffeine yet this morning.)

[Hampshire]

For some reason that feature on the newer HD sets (a center channel input) seems to have fallen by the wayside. Probably because of the expense of wiring the insides of the TV that way and probably not a lot of people used that feature.

I'd plan on designing your setup with the intentions of using your own center channel. That way you aren't limited by your choice of TV (if you can still find one with center channel input), and you can get a better match acoustically with your left and right mains.
Seriously, which would you prefer for a center channel, your Klipsch with 4-5" drivers, or the paper cone Sonys that are built into the set?

[Running with Scissors]

If you're not using the TV's built-in tuner, you could run the center channel preamp output from your HTR to an RCA "Y" adapter, then send both outputs to the L/R input on whatever video input you're using on the TV. You may have to split it more than once if you use more than one input (you can probably split it twice (i.e. to four sets of outputs) without any major effect).

However, as was already noted, built-in speakers in flat panel TVs, even the more expensive ones, are mostly crap. If space is tight, you could try finding a panel with removable speakers and then substituting a small pair of L/R speakers that match the rest of your system; or look at some of the low-profile centers.

There's nothing magical about center-channel speakers; you don't need to have a tweeter flanked by a pair of woofers (this convention was determined by the need to make the speaker in a fairly low profile, with the thought being that two smaller woofers would work just as well as a single large one; however, IME most center speakers' bass response are on par with their brethren with only a single woofer of the same size). A simple two-way speaker, or a pair of same (if you're going to be mounting them to the sides of the set), will work just as well.

For TV watching, it's probably not critical that the center channel be voice matched (all speakers have a "voice" to some extent or another, which is the way they affect the sound). However, when you're watching movies with sound effects, it can be distracting when a sound pans from left to center to right, and it changes as it hits the center because it is voiced differently. The best way to keep the speakers sounding the same is to use all from the same line of the manufacturer.

[squeegee]

Well, one thing I hadn't noticed was that in the manual for that Sony panel, you can set the Audio Out to "Fixed":

Originally Posted by Sony

Audio Out Fixed:
Select to fix the audio output and allow you to adjust the volume with your audio system's remote control

So I guess do that, and use Running with Scissors suggestion. I'll want an HTR that can upsample anything to HDMI, so I don't need to multiply this setup across every input on the panel.

Or I can shop for a small CC speaker. The problem is I'll have about 4" of space if the panel is on a stand. Or I can mount the panel on an articulated mount, which looks kindof hairy -- I'd need to beef up the cabinet, but I'd get back a few inches of height for the CC speaker. Hmmm.