My wife and I saw something deeply disturbing the other night…or maybe it is the norm we do not know, so I figured I’d ask the almighty Dope.
First, my wife and I do not have any children yet, we’ve been married for quite a while and sort of put our careers in front of having children, that being said, we are getting ready to go down that road and are really looking forward to it.
We were at a Target buying some shelving for our ever growing library and we were walking past the children’s section. We were just about to the Transformers when a little boy [I’ll guess 3 years old] ran out into isle. He appeared to have smeared something [chocolate as far as I could see] all over his face, probably just eating it quickly so mom wouldn’t see, and running after him was his mother. She had a wet wipe in her hand preparing to wipe his face off when she grabbed him and said: "Mikey come here! You look like a slob! Let me wipe your face off!"
I was a bit taken aback by her statement, ‘you look like a slob.’ That doesn’t seem like something you call a 3 year old and certainly not something you say to a child when he has chocolate all over his face…
Are we over reacting to this? Would you have called your son or daughter a slob in public or at all for that matter?
Darn, missed the edit window…
How about other atributes of your child’s looks? Say they have a mole on their face, or a cleft lip or whatever? Do you care what they look like to others? I would think looks have very little to do with a parents system of beliefs for their child…but knowing there are such things as baby beauty pagents ala Jean-Binet Ramsey, I’d think some people do care what their children look like.
All I really care about is their health, I hope we have a healthy baby…that’s all.
Maybe it’s cultural differences - but to my mind ‘slob’ is a very mild word… and calling a 3 year old a slob (especially a male kid) is completely insignificant. You are overreacting.
At least the mother wasn’t swearing at the kid… That’s the kind of thing that shocks me… and it does happen.
Well, first, if your kid has chocolate all over his face in a store, you’re gonna want to wipe it off fast, before he decides to, say, hide in a rack of clothes. And in the heat of the moment she probably wasn’t thinking a lot about what was coming out of her mouth. She didn’t swear or call him awful names, so I’d say she’s doing fine.
Then, you do want to take your kids out in public looking neat and clean. People are likely to call CPS on you if your kid’s hair is consistently and obviously unbrushed, and her clothes and body aren’t clean. (At the least they won’t want to be friends; they’ll be afraid to send their kids over to your house.) Kids are kids and should get dirty, but they shouldn’t be neglected. You have to clean them up every so often.
I’ll let my kids go out in clothes they pick themselves (to a point; I tell the 7yo when her striped sweater doesn’t match her striped pants, since she does care a bit about looking nice). I don’t insist on putting their hair into elaborate styles, but it does have to be brushed, and their hands and faces should be clean.
Standards vary geographically. Around here there are plenty of granola folks and kids tend to be very kid-like–people are pretty laid-back. I’ve been to places where all the kids had matching outfits and fancy hair, and that was the standard for decent parenthood. Less effort was seen as neglect. I’m glad I don’t live someplace like that, and I wonder how I’d react to the pressure.
About physical features–a cleft lip would be surgically repaired in infancy in this country. Moles tend to develop when people are older–mine are going to be quite freckly and moley, like me, and the oldest (7) only has a few now. Something like a birth mark, that is obvious from day one and not something that needs fixing–well, I wouldn’t care. I think most people would live with it, but not all would.
My son is nine and is insisting he wear his hair long - not ponytail long (though he’d probably like that) think Beatles long. And the thing is that by doing that, he IS choosing which friends he’ll have. His cleaner cut friend’s moms are less comfortable with the long haired kids. And the friends whose moms don’t care - many of them are great kids (and great parents) - and some of them are “hummm, can’t choose your kids friends, but we are going to discourage a friendship with this future glue sniffer.” We are letting him wear it “longish” - but I do care about it and I don’t like it.
My daughter is eight, hates combing her hair, likes standing on her head, and so seldom has tidy hair. And that choice impacts who she gets to play with as well. She’s getting a lot better as the social reality of “other people do care what you look like” starts to hit.
Obviously from my two kids, you can probably tell neither of my kids are Jon-Benet clones. I personally don’t approve of kids whose parents teach them about the “right” shoes and wearing the “right” brands (mine are usually dressed from Target). But there is a happy medium between letting your kid go to a playdate looking like he was raised by wolves (and, I think the majority of kids would let entropy take over if their parents didn’t encourage hair brushing, bathing, taking care of their teeth and wearing their clothes - changing you underwear does not come naturally to a six year old) and making sure that they look like Stepford children.
And, yes, I think parents telling their kids they look like a slob is appropriate. Their classmates will be far meaner.
Re-read what you said, though. “You LOOK like a slob”. Not “you ARE a slob”. Assuming that’s what the Mom said, I think it’s perfectly OK. She wants him to be non-chocolatized, and she’s giving him a reason why not (you look yukky! might have been what I would’ve said). I’m with Dangermom exactly: a chocolate-y 3 year old running amok through a store with clothes racks is scary! Kids that young have a tendency to rub on stuff and try to hide within the hanging clothes. I definitely feel the Mom’s urgency on this one.
As to the rest of your question: of course physical beauty doesn’t matter to me, as a Mom. It’s not like the kid can help what he/she looks like, anyway. Much more important is character. The way I explained it to my kids was that “pretty on the inside” was far more important than “pretty on the outside”.
To expand further, I also don’t care if they (as teenagers) dye their hair weird colors or get earrings. I don’t care for tattoos or other piercings (ok, maybe belly-button rings); however, if they wait until they are living on their own then I will never say a word about it.
My husband has a huge problem with piercings in men, and it’s all he can do to tolerate an earring on guys. If teenage visitors with other visible piercings (lip, eyebrow, etc.) come over, he will ask them to remove the hardware if they are going to be around him.
I agree with dangermom. I also think that there’s a difference, albeit a subtle one, between “You look like a slob!” and “You’re a slob!”, especially when said slobishness is easily remedied if you stand still a sec and let Mama wipe your face. Fear of ostracization for looking like a slob because of chocolate on your face is a good way of teaching social values around cleanliness, but fear of being ostracized for a mole or harelip isn’t - those are things that can’t be wiped away easily.
I like my kid to look clean and neat, and cute and matched is a bonus, but there are some battles that aren’t worth fighting. Today she’s in a blue and green horizontal striped sweater and a pink and brown plaid pair of pants. Can you tell she got herself dressed with Daddy’s help? When she came into the room, I laughed a little and said, “Caileigh! I think my eyeballs are broken! What a wonderful creative little girl you are!” and gave her a big hug.
She will not, however, be going *outside *in that outfit, unless she really, really insists. I’ll probably simply “forget” to put a bib on her so the sweater gets dirty at lunch, and change it under the pretext of putting on a clean shirt when we go out this afternoon. And, unlike Daddy, I don’t give her free choice out of her closet, but pick out two options, each of which would be acceptable to me, and let her chose from those.
Dangerosa, my son is going through that 14 year old yucky smelly boy phase. I’m at a loss. I do tell him he smells and his hair is gross (both from not shampooing it correctly and not combing/brushing it), but I do it as a bit of information, not a judgment. I know I don’t always know when I reek if we’re camping and I haven’t showered, for example. But I’m not sure I’m winning at it - he’ll shower when I specifically order him in there, but he’s not a self-starter. I’m hoping when he gets interested in girls he’ll become interested in hygiene.
The comment wouldn’t have done anything more than amused me, because having a toddler, I know the exasperation of, “Oh crrrrrrrap, he’s going to smear gunk everywhere!” And I agree–“You look like a slob” is an entirely different matter than “You’re such a slob!”
We like Rufflama to be clean when we go out, but also know he’s a toddler. This means he might have stubborn bits of applesauce in his hair, his upper lip might have a bit of dried-snot residue that refuses to wipe off, and his hands might be stained with “washable” markers that, well, aren’t entirely. I prefer that his clothes match, and that they be going-out clothes (not, for example, footied PJs), but he wears brands gathered from clearance sales and the occasional garage sale–though I would dare you to pick out the GS clothes from he Babies-R-Us ones.
I gotta say, I’m glad he’s not a girl, because I’m not a girly-girl. I’d have to, I dunno, do her hair and stuff. Eek!
Unless you had my girl. She doesn’t even own a dress at this point, because it would be wasted money. She ain’t gonna wear it.
I care what my kids look like, but let them make their choices in most situations. My daughter’s favorite outfit is a pair of jeans, a long-sleeved shirt, and a short-sleeved T-shirt worn backwards over the LS shirt. I have no clue, really. If she’s hanging around the house or going to daycare, then fine. This I can tolerate. If we’re going to dinner at Nana’s house, I explain that she has to make other choices. (She’s 5, BTW). It’s a whole lot easier to let her choose this outfit and put it on herself (or a striped/other striped/wildly colored one like WhyNot described) than it is to impose my choices upon her and spend 20 minutes struggling.
My son is just entering the phase when he’d rather pick out his own clothes as well, but so far, he’s been more easily influenced.
So, I care what they look like, but I also care about bolstering their abilities to make choices and feel good about themselves.
I just remembered. My youngest does have an issue with her appearance; her left eye doesn’t go left (it’s called Duane’s syndrome, it’s not lazy eye) and it looks a bit weird sometimes. I noticed it when she was a week old. There’s nothing to be done about it, however, so I don’t worry about it.
I wouldn’t mind if a kid had Beatles hair or something, but I’d worry if a kid looked neglected. What does the inside of the house look like? Are they healthy? Are they fed well? Is their house infested with critters? That’s more what I meant by that people won’t let their kids play at your house if your kids don’t look decently cared for.
I remember one of my nieces saying she looked like a “dragon muffin” (ragamuffin). Her feelings didn’t seem to be hurt because she heard something less-than positive. I think today’s worries that your kid have great self-esteem makes parents not give their children valid feedback or criticism. Face it, not everything they do is perfect. Sometimes they need to hear that they smell. They can’t fix the problem unless they’re told the truth.
I wouldn’t have called my kid a slob in that situation but would definitely wipe his or her face off, just like I do my younger sister when she has something on hers. I don’t like to go out in public like that and will not let anyone I have any control over look like that either.
For goodness sake, let the kid be a kid! Quietly wipe off the mess, but don’t expect the world from a 3 year old! (I bet his potty training is/was hell for him!) It is a little extreme because a 3 year old doesn’t know any better. Perhaps it seems incidental to the adults because there are so many worse things (as the SDopers have pointed out) to say. All the kid knew is he was enjoying his treat. The rest has no meaning in a 3 year old’s world…unless you want him to grow up to be obsessive compulsive :twitch: compulsive :twitch: compulsive.
I prefer my kids (two boys) to be neat and clean when they go out and preferably colour-matched. That tends to work itself out by buying stuff for the season that they agree on and that has a fairly consistent theme. (For example Little Brit’s clothes this year are mostly red/white/cream/navy/black and Bigger Brit’s clothes tend to be orange/white/cream/black/khaki.
At 7 and 11 they dress themselves and I will not argue unless something is horribly stained or wrinkled or on backwards! And socks have to match.
Teeth must be brushed and hands must be clean and non-sticky. However, the older one has allergies and an absolutely intractable habit of grabbing a handful of shirt and wiping his nose on it. At ELEVEN! Ewwwww. He gets yelled at every time by everyone who sees it, and he’s always sorry and goes to get a tissue, but the damage is done! So he’s clean for about three seconds of a morning… It does influence his friends and the mothers who will allow him in their houses to play.
He occasionally now has a teenager-y whiff about the armpits so recently we have been talking a lot about daily hygiene routines and what is expected OF HIM in the bathroom. I am getting sick of checking and then having to send him back! (But that is boys for you…)
As toddlers I wanted them clean(ish!) and appropriately clothed but I didn’t mind stained hands or whatever. I did hate snotty noses and sticky hands though. Still do. But my declarations of never having a snotty toddler lasted about a minutes after gaining said toddler!
As long as the clothes matched and they had clean faces and hands it was all good.
My son had some issue with putting his shirts on backwards. I can’t tell you the times I had to tell him to correct it. Tag in back, tag in back, TAG IN BACK, what is wrong with you boy? Just when we thought he had it licked he came down wearing his pants on backwords. :smack:
My daughter had and still has the ability to stain just about every shirt she wears. I don’t know what is about her. Food just flys of her spoon or fork and lays smack damn on the front of her blouse. She had more play clothes than good clothes because of this. At least know she buys her own clothes so I don’t have to worry about it anymore. I tell her that white is NOT her color.
They both sort of found their own way in what they like to wear. I tried not to force them to wear things they did not like. My son is your basic jeans or kacky pants and t-shirt kid. My daughter is half tom boy half girly girl.
To the most part I think society understands small children and they don’t expect them to be hair pin neat all the time.
The thing that bothers me is when I see kids dressed in $200 leather coats and $100 tennis shoes and the parents are insisting they don’t do anything to ruin them. I am not against buying higher priced clothing for children but there is a place for them. A five year old does not know the value of money so to him the $50 jeans you dress him in is no different then the $1 ones from the thrift store. He still wants to crawl on the floor.
Let the kid be a kid. You are in Walmart buying TP and some motor oil. Put the kid in some regular jeans, some slip on shoes and sweater.
Heh. I think I won a skirmish in the War. He’s got a crush on my friend Gina, and Gina, as it happens, has gorgeous ass-length Italian-curly hair. My son has uncombed, obnoxious chin length curly hair that he hates. (I have straight, straight hair.) Yesterday I told him that GINA had given me some tips for dealing with curly hair*. He was a clean boy last night! His hair, while still unruly, at least looked clean. Alleluia!
We saw Gina last night, and she told him how nice he looked. I’ve never seen a boy turn that many shades of red all at once.
*shampoo twice, condition once, comb it with a wide toothed come *while *conditioning, towel dry, apply Friz-ease or leave in conditioner, comb through and then never touch it with a comb or brush while dry. She told me that months ago, and I have given him all those instructions before, but I never told him the information came from Gina.
This could be my son right down to the age. Last weekend I force the issue since he had to accompany me to the salon while my husband was working. A cute young stylist and the promise of a look similar to Drake of Drake and Josh helped. Now I’m blow drying a third grader every morning but it’s a small price to pay.
I’m sure there are going to be posters who find this shallow and it’s not me making the rules, but, where we live it makes a difference and, guess what, he’s had two playdates with new kids since last Saturday. Coincidence? I don’t know.
The description in the OP? I would have done the same thing, except I might have said, “Jesus Crap, Matty. What the f-um -heck is on your face?” before making the slob remark. What if it was poop?
I don’t have kids, But if I were to spawn, I imagine that I would only insist on neat and clean. I grew up with a mom who was a bit on the anal side about clothes and haircuts and always resented it. I would only tell them if something looked bad on them. For example, I look good in an all over buzz cut, or really long hair. Everything else in between looks terrible on me. Seriously, it makes my head look too big, and thus is too dorky. Where did mum insist on keeping it until high school? You guessed it conservative middle. I looked like a freakin’ light bulb. At 28 she STILL badgers me about my choice of haircut and how I wear my beard.
