The Aquarium Thread

[MacTech]

Inspired by Asimovian's thread on how to move an aquarium, I started wondering, how many Dopers are also aquarists?

I have three fish tanks, all cycled and balanced properly;

a 2.5 gallon tank occupied by a lone female Betta, white body and red fins, with a faint bluish cast between the fin rays (Chiana) and a couple brown ram snails, and a decent amount of plants, I'm trying to turn this tank into a heavily planted nano-tank, 2.5 gallon tanks are considered nearly impossible to cycle, but it can be done, using filter media from an established tank, and planting heavily with aquatic plants, it's a precarious balancing act, but it can be done

a 10 gallon tank, well on it's way to being heavily planted, occupied by a male Crowntail Betta (Rocky) with a gray-and-iridescent blue body, with a yellow-to-silver fade on his fins

and my pride and joy, my 20 Long heavily planted tank, containing a male Crowntail betta (Nova) yellow body and yellow fins (you can see him peeking out from the right coconut hut near the left of the tank), a orange male Platy, 4 Kuhli Loaches (three spotted and one black), and a Clown Pleco, along with a bunch of Cherry Shrimp and Amano Shrimp and a pair of Brigesii Apple snails as the cleanup crew

the 20 Long is so heavily planted, and understocked fish-wise, that I can easily go 6 months or more between water changes, I basically just top it off as water evaporates, it's also a fairly low-tech tank, hardware consists of;
55 watt Power Compact flourescent bulb and 20 watt standard flourescent (75 watts of light into 20 gallons of water, approx. 3.1ish watts-per-gallon)
Ebo-Jaeger 100 watt heater (20 years old, and runs just as good as the day I bought it)
Fluval 204 canister filter filled with Fluval Pre-filter, polyester filter floss, and Fluval Bio-Max rings
DIY Carbon Dioxide injection system going right into the Fluval filter's intake

nothing special really, basic off-the-shelf stuff, yet the tank is both maintenance free and completely stable, it's as close to a truly balanced system as a closed environment like an aquarium can be

the secret of a truly maintenance-free community tank?
live plants with enough light to support them, take care of the plants, and they'll take care of the fish, the fish produce waste, which the beneficial nitrifying bacteria and plants consume, the plants release oxygen which allows the fish to continue eating and producing more waste to feed the plants.....

I've got enough plant mass in the tank that I could probably shut down the filter and let the plants be the filter

[Zsofia]

Sigh. My aquarims... aquaria... my aquarium and my other aquarium are a hot mess. I have a 29 gallon one that was doing great, but didn't get much maintenance for a while and has gradually depopulated - I have three or four survivors, I think. The light part of the hood freaked out and I e-mailed Marineland, who said send it in and they'd send me a new one, which I just did (it's been months.) By the way - Marineland really does stand behind their products, they replaced it no questions asked. So I have to get that put together and working, and restock. I'm considering taking out the couple surviving community fish (two zebra danios and an I-forget) and doing angelfish or maybe an oscar. The plants are doing fine in the darkness, surprisingly.

I have another little three gallon hex with some Java fern and theoretically a betta, but I'm afriad to look in there because I'm 70% sure it's dead. I've been putting off the inevitable for ages - I need to do something about the algae problem and clean the tank up and and and, and I feel pretty bad about the whole thing. I might just dump that tank for the time being.

[levdrakon]

It'd almost be nice if we could get a long-term aquarium thread to keep going.

I've been out of the freshwater planted aquarium hobby for years, and am only recently playing around with it again.

Back in the day I had metal halide grow lamps suspended over CO2-driven tanks and used to support my addiction by selling plants back to the local fish store (LFS).

Right now I've got two tanks going in the sunroom. Sunroom, you say? Yes. How's that for a challenge? I've got a 10 gallon with a yeast/sugar CO2 reactor running I'm trying to use as a plant nursery, then a 35-gallon ornamental goldfish tank I'm slowly trying to cycle into a plant tank as well.

[Zsofia]

Don't the goldfish eat the plants?

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

Don't the goldfish eat the plants?

Well, now that you bring it up...

Yes. Goldfish are wonderful but very mouthy creatures. Everything goes in the mouth. Plants, gravel, your fingers, they spend their lives trying to fit everything in the mouth. But, that just presents me with an additional challenge. They won't eat certain plants. My tank is open topped and I have floating Hyacinths and Azolla. Azolla is sorta like duckweed except it's an aquatic fern rather than true blooming plant and goldfish don't like it much.

Underwater, I'm trying to get plants going that goldfish also don't eat, and can't dig out of the gravel. That means plants that don't root in the gravel and can be anchored to rocks. Things like Java Fern and Anubius plants. I'm also experimenting with a form of what I think is Vallesneria. That's a grassy like plant. They'd dig it right out of the gravel if I tried to plant it directly, but what I've been doing is planting it in a Jiffy peat pot filled with gravel and letting it grow out in my little 10 gallon aquarium. Once the plant is thoroughly rooted and pot-bound, it can be transferred into the goldfish tank where it will be molested initially, but eventually judged not mouth-worthy and left mostly alone. My goal is to work out all the plants that can co-exist with mouthy goldfish.

[Zsofia]

See, the reason I asked being, I'm trying to decide what to put in my 29 gallon tank and I'd thought about goldfish, but figured they'd eat my plants, and the plants are probably the only thing that keeps everything from dying all the time in any of my fish tanks.

[levdrakon]

I wouldn't recommend goldfish + plants in general, unless we're talking outdoor pond.

[Tristan]

I've got a 10 gallon that is sparsly planted. 2 small Amazon Swords, and 2... uh.... things. Not sure what they are, they look like spider plants with a bit of a stalk.

I have a handful of fish in there, as it started as a fish tank that I dumped plants into one day out of sheer obstinance (my wife said I'll just kill the plants. We'll see!).

[Acid Lamp]

Heh. My goldfish aren't the plant botherers in my tank, it's the crayfish that tear everything up. I used to be ridiculously hardcore into aquaria, and even co-owned a LFS for a while. Now I keep my two Ryukin, in a nice 39 gallon and give them fresh river plants every 4 weeks or so. Beside the ryukin and crayfish, i've got two lovely dojo loaches that zip about the bottom.

Hardware:

39 gallon
HOT magnum system (i love these guys)
suspension light with double 10,000 k bulbs
Shultz's aquatic plant potting medium and mexican beach pebble bottom
huge cedar burl I got from an estuary.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Acid Lamp

HOT magnum system (i love these guys)

Me too. Great filter for the money. I wish they made an extension that would put the outflow a little deeper into the tank.

I had a "Blue Freshwater Lobster" crayfish once. I found it six months later behind a dresser in my bedroom, way away down the hall from the living room tank it escaped from.

[Shamozzle]

I've always wanted to set up a reef aquarium but I don't have the time it would take to maintain it. I've used tanks like this for inspiration. Check it out, it will blow your mind.

[MacTech]

That's an incredibly impressive setup, very natural looking reef

I'm also very fond of Takashi Amano's Aquascapes

[Acid Lamp]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Me too. Great filter for the money. I wish they made an extension that would put the outflow a little deeper into the tank.

I had a "Blue Freshwater Lobster" crayfish once. I found it six months later behind a dresser in my bedroom, way away down the hall from the living room tank it escaped from.

You can make one from Pvc. You'll need to find the next biggest size and use some silicone sealant to get it right but it's easily done. The HOT tubes are of some bizarre off size that no one carries.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by MacTech

That's an incredibly impressive setup, very natural looking reef

I'm also very fond of Takashi Amano's Aquascapes

Lord Amano reigns, but I started with Kaspar Horst and Horst Kipper. Amano's tanks are an inspiration, if you have the time and staff.

[blondebear]

[slight hijack] Speaking of Aquariums, has anyone been to the one in Atlanta yet? I think it would be worth a visit just to see the whale sharks.[/hijack]

[yellowval]

We have a 125-gallon saltwater tank. At the moment we have:
1 yellow tang
1 blue hippo tang (the world's stupidest fish)
1 royal gamma
1 pygmy angelfish
3 pajama cardinals
1 lawnmower blenny
2 anthias
2 clownfish
1 clam
1 cleaner shrimp
Several emerald crabs & other crabs
Some snails
Peppermint shrimp (I think the sea anenome may have eaten most of them though)
Various corals

[Dinsdale]

Tank looks nice, Mac.

I've got a 3 gal here in the office, and 30 and 55 gals at home. All heavily planted.

The 3g is ultra low tech with cherry shrimp and endlers breeding in it.

The 30 is moderate light with DIY CO2 and bosemanii rainbows.

The 55 has pressurized CO2, 260w, and primarily angels. I was planning on getting a 90, but I picked up the 55 for free. Planning on getting something in the 120 range when I move in a year or so.

Any of you guys hang out at plantedtank.net?

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

The 3g is ultra low tech with cherry shrimp and endlers breeding in it.

I recently picked up what are probably Cherry shrimp. At the store they were labeled "Algae Eating Shrimp" but they look like Cherry shrimp and the guy at the store called them "cherry something." How prolifically do they breed? Anything special you do? Do they seem to have any effect on algae?

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

I recently picked up what are probably Cherry shrimp. At the store they were labeled "Algae Eating Shrimp" but they look like Cherry shrimp and the guy at the store called them "cherry something." How prolifically do they breed? Anything special you do? Do they seem to have any effect on algae?

That tank is ultra low tech, so no, I don't do anything special for them other than to drop in a piece of an algae wafer a couple of times a week. The shrimp will be all over the tank - including on the walls where I presume they are eating algae, but that tank gets very little algae other than a little green spot which I wipe off every couple of weeks. Sorry, but I really don't know how prolifically they breed - the number in the tank seems to have ebbed and flowed a bit over the 2-3 years it has been up.

It is kinda frustrating, tho predicatable, that that tank is the one I pay the least attention to, yet it is probably consistently the best looking and healthiest appearing of my tanks!

There is a shrimp forum over at plantedtank.net.

[Cluricaun]

I have a goldfish and a bowl that I bought at Meijer. When the goldfish dies, I buy another one. This keeps me happy after the never ending mega disaster that was my attempt to keep an aquarium stocked with game fish. Largemouth bass are not aquarium friendly, they eat like crazy, stress like sharks do, and a fingerling will outgrow a 120 gallon tank within a year. I'd love to be able to make it work, but in my estimation it would cost eleven hijillion dollars and a much bigger house than I have to make my initial idea workable. ETA- My initial idea was to create a small pond-scape that reflected native Illinois flora and fauna. It is a crazy idea.

One day I might try bluegills and sunfish again. Maybe.

[BaneSidhe]

I have a 15 gal (I think) hex tank with one goldfish in it. He's a fan tail, about 6 inches long and I believe he's coming up on 10 years of age. I'd really like to start a freshwater tank when he goes to the Great Fish Tank In The Sky. I had 2 when I was in college that were gorgeous but my psychotic roomie killed all of the fish by pouring bleach into the water while I was in class. I miss my Neon Tetras!!

[flickster]

We have a 55 gal metaframe that I've had for at least 35 years. Currently using the Hot Magnum filtration system - it's been working without problem now for at least 5 years.

Currently populated by Golden Labs (African Cichlids) and a single plecostomus. The labs have been breeding but only producing one little one at a time, which I find very unusual for a mouthbreeder species.

I've raised other species of cichlids over the years; Jewel Fish, Convicts, a South American mouthbreeder that I never exactly identified (early 70's with limited research resources available). At one time along with the 55 mentioned above, I also had a 30, 29 high and multiple 20s & 10s all set up in the basement of my parent's house.

The Jewel Fish were prolific breeders and I kept multiple local shops supplied for quite a while.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

That tank is ultra low tech, so no, I don't do anything special for them other than to drop in a piece of an algae wafer a couple of times a week. The shrimp will be all over the tank - including on the walls where I presume they are eating algae, but that tank gets very little algae other than a little green spot which I wipe off every couple of weeks. Sorry, but I really don't know how prolifically they breed - the number in the tank seems to have ebbed and flowed a bit over the 2-3 years it has been up.

It is kinda frustrating, tho predicatable, that that tank is the one I pay the least attention to, yet it is probably consistently the best looking and healthiest appearing of my tanks!

There is a shrimp forum over at plantedtank.net.

Thanks for the response. My 10 gallon tank is exposed to natural sunlight in the sunroom so predictably it's got algae. Mostly green hair algae. I was hoping they'd eat that specifically and breed like crazy. Is it the males or the females which are larger and redder?

I know there are other forums for this, but the Dope is my home, and this *is* an aquarium thread.

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Thanks for the response. My 10 gallon tank is exposed to natural sunlight in the sunroom so predictably it's got algae. Mostly green hair algae. I was hoping they'd eat that specifically and breed like crazy. Is it the males or the females which are larger and redder?

I know there are other forums for this, but the Dope is my home, and this *is* an aquarium thread.

Sorry, man - I really don't know too much about them. I've read that the females tend to be larger and redder, but have no idea whether that is at all reliable. When mature, the females supposedly develop "saddles" where they carry their eggs - but I don't know that I have ever seen those in my tank.

They supposedly like java moss and najas grass - some folk complain of both of those being invasive. They are supposedly sensitive to chemicals/metals - especially copper. But I use no ferts in my tank at work.

What fish do you have in your aquaria? I ask because I'd expect many fish to enjoy a nice shrimp snack!

I keep otos and bristlenose and cories as cleaner crews in both my aquaria at home, but am not sure there is any way to completely be rid of all algae. Haven't had green hair for a while - don't particularly recall how I got rid of it. There's an algae forum over at - right, you don't wanna know!

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

Sorry, man - I really don't know too much about them. I've read that the females tend to be larger and redder, but have no idea whether that is at all reliable. When mature, the females supposedly develop "saddles" where they carry their eggs - but I don't know that I have ever seen those in my tank.

They supposedly like java moss and najas grass - some folk complain of both of those being invasive. They are supposedly sensitive to chemicals/metals - especially copper. But I use no ferts in my tank at work.

What fish do you have in your aquaria? I ask because I'd expect many fish to enjoy a nice shrimp snack!

I keep otos and bristlenose and cories as cleaner crews in both my aquaria at home, but am not sure there is any way to completely be rid of all algae. Haven't had green hair for a while - don't particularly recall how I got rid of it. There's an algae forum over at - right, you don't wanna know!

Well, I *do* wanna know about other useful forums, but I like having one here too. I already belong to a couple aquarium forums and a mailing list.

As far as the tank inhabitants, I've got two ottos, four guppies, two tetras of some kind - not sure - the wife bought 'em. They're white, sorta look like silver dollars but not, and two dwarf African frogs. That's it, except for the shrimp I bought. I only wanted two, but the guy at the store gave me four. I guess he liked me. The frogs might eat baby shrimp, I don't know. I do know they're carnivorous and will eat what fits in their mouth, but there's lots of plants and algae for babies to hide in.

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

As far as the tank inhabitants, I've got ... four guppies ... The frogs might eat baby shrimp, I don't know. I do know they're carnivorous and will eat what fits in their mouth, but there's lots of plants and algae for babies to hide in.

I assume you got 4 male guppies, or else it is unlikely you will have only 4 for very long!

At times I've brought shrimp and endlers home just to see if they could establish themselves in my heavily planted tanks - but no go. Yeah - there's plenty of places to hide, but its not as tho those hungry frogs have anything else to do all day!

[Tastes of Chocolate]

We used to run 2 marine tanks. One 55 gallon and a 35 gallon hex.

Currently the 55 gallon is empty and the the hex is home to a chinese algae eater, 2 coolie loaches, 6 neon tetras and a growing population of guppies. Until we move, I need to keep it cheap, easy and colorful. I'd forgotten how hard it is to get a correct count on baby guppies.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

I assume you got 4 male guppies, or else it is unlikely you will have only 4 for very long!

At times I've brought shrimp and endlers home just to see if they could establish themselves in my heavily planted tanks - but no go. Yeah - there's plenty of places to hide, but its not as tho those hungry frogs have anything else to do all day!

My wife got a bright blue male and and a bright orange male. No babies. I went out and got a couple females because hey, what's the fun of guppies with no babies? Plus, she got those frogs without consideration of what they'd eat. She buys whatever the people at the pet store tell her to buy. I'm hoping the frogs will eat some guppy babies, once we get some.

I'm concerned the frogs might eat baby shrimp too though.

I hadn't heard of endlers, it was interesting googling them up.

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

I hadn't heard of endlers, it was interesting googling them up.

Endlers interbreed with guppies, so most people are pretty anal about not mixing them.

I had some that I did not think were pure, so I fed them to my angels and restarted.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

Endlers interbreed with guppies, so most people are pretty anal about not mixing them.

I had some that I did not think were pure, so I fed them to my angels and restarted.

Yeah, I'll be content to see what I get out of my guppies. Like I said, 1 blue male, 1 orange male and now the two females I added are probably already pregnant with who knows what, but they themselves are a gold & black tuxedo type. Who knows what I'll have a few generations from now.

[Millit the Frail]

I'm pretty green here--my husband and I just started a 10 gallon tank a month or so ago--it's our first! We currently have three bloodfin tetras who have been breaking in our new tank. We're ready for more but haven't had the time to go to the fish store for a couple of weeks. Someday we want to put some plants in but we're going pretty slowly, one step at a time. Good to know I have some knowledgeable brains to pick here on the Dope!


BTW--your tanks all sound amazing! Thanks for the pictures, those of you who posted them; it's great to see all the cool stuff one can do.

[Mirror Image egamI rorriM]

10 gallons, three platys, one swordtail, two corycats, one dojo loach, one ghost shrimp, and two bettas (red crowntail and blue veiltail) in breeding nets until I go back to college, where the blue fish goes in a 1.5 gallon tank on my desk and the red fish goes back to my friend Dan, for whom I am fishsitting.

The blue fish is named Piano, because he has blue fins, which makes him a bluefin tuna, and you can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

The red fish is named Brunch. I don't know why.

Bettas

Brunch and my last fish, Opalfish, who looks just like Piano, in vases until I could get breeding nets for my big tank.

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by Millit the Frail

Someday we want to put some plants in but we're going pretty slowly, one step at a time.

I see you are from Chicago. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. There is a pretty good planted aquaria club in the area, and some other groups which are a great source for cheap, high quality flora, fauna, and supplies. For example, the Chicago killifish club is having a show/auction this weekend in the western burbs. And next weekend a guy is stopping by my house to take my weekly trimmings for his tank...

[MacTech]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

I recently picked up what are probably Cherry shrimp. At the store they were labeled "Algae Eating Shrimp" but they look like Cherry shrimp and the guy at the store called them "cherry something." How prolifically do they breed? Anything special you do? Do they seem to have any effect on algae?

From my experience, breeding cherries is easy, if they're in a tank with no predators (read; fish, shrimp ain't the smartest critters out there, any fish are seen as potential predators, even Otos and Plecos), they should just breed, as long as the water is clean and nitrogenous-waste free, they should breed, quite prolifically, if i understand correctly

they do eat algae, but you need to have a decent size crew of them to see any appreciable results, and they're opportunistic scavengers as well, given a choice between eating algae (work) or eating the food the fish have missed (easy), they'll go for the easy route

my Amanos and Cherries seem to be a little....stupid to boot, they can be "cleaning" a leaf on one of my plants, picking away at *something* that I can't see, clearly not algae, while the leaf right next to them, with a patch of black beard algae on it, a leaf with *actual* algae goes completely ignored

I'm having a small issue with BBA right now, as I'm trying to get my CO2 levels optimal, so I've been pruning out infested leaves as I find them, the shrimp do pick at the algae, but they're not making a substantial dent in it, I think I may not have enough of them in the tank to make a difference yet, about 14 Cherries and 6 Amanos in a tank that's 30" long , 12" wide, and 12" tall, that's a lot of floor space for 20 shrimp to cover, I need to add some more Cherries, as they seem to be the better algae consumers, the Amanos are okay, but they tend to scavenge more for leftover fish food

strangely enough, both shrimp's favorite food above all else are.....

Shrimp Pellets (pellets made *from* shrimp, not *for* shrimp)
crazy little Cannibals....

"Soylent Orange Is SHRIMP!"

[Amblydoper]

I have a 55 gallon tank with 4 Angelfish: two marbles, one common silver, and a Panda koi (the youngest. the silver and one of the marbles have been breeding for months, but I don't have the time to manage multiple growout tanks full of fry.

[RickJay]

Sigh. I just broke down my tank in anticipation of a move/cleanup, and gave my fish away.

Oh well. Get back to you all in a few months!

[Dinsdale]

Originally Posted by MacTech

I'm having a small issue with BBA right now, as I'm trying to get my CO2 levels optimal, so I've been pruning out infested leaves as I find them, the shrimp do pick at the algae, but they're not making a substantial dent in it, ...

I've heard folk recommend flag fish, but I don't think anything really does the job on "pirate" algae.

[koeeoaddi]

I hate my aquarium. Hate. It's 10 gallons and home to two old fart goldfish that plan on living forever. We moved the l'il fuckers from Washington state to Wyoming, twice and once more to the Desert Southwest -- in a plastic kitty litter container in the back of the car.

They're at least twelve years old and retired now. They golf, play canasta, crap in their tank day in and day out, mock me with their freakish longevity and then expect me to feed and clean up after them.



I really love my fishies.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

I've heard folk recommend flag fish, but I don't think anything really does the job on "pirate" algae.

I've heard about flag fish too. Those and SAEs are supposed to work on it. Honestly, I'm not sure about algae-eating critters in general. It seems like you really have to control your algae problem yourself, then having a small platoon of algae eaters just makes you feel better.

Has anyone here ever heard of, or dealt with Arizona Aquatic Gardens? I ran across them recently and they look like a good source for some things you might not be able to get locally.

[faithfool]

I'm a newbie at this too. The Other Half set me up a 10 gallon and I have one Betta (Maurice), four Tiger Barbs (the Dadas) and two snails (Spider and Creep). I really enjoy them but wish I understood the ecosystem better and was able to have real plants.

Unfortunately, I have a hard time keeping plastic ones alive.

[MacTech]

As far as the SAE or Flag fish go, flag fish are a no-go for the 20L, as they are fin-nippers, and Nova has long, tasty fins.....

I'm quarrantining a pair of SAE's in the 10 gallon tank, it also has a staghorn algae problem (what I thought was BBA was actually staghorn), if they put a dent on the staghorn problem in the Q-tank, I might move them to the 20L once they pass quarrantine

strangely enough, the *threat* of introducing a more efficient algae eating critter into the 20L has caused the Amanos and Cherry shrimp to start earnestly *attacking* the Staghorn algae, it's almost like they're afraid they'll get "fired" or something, and are working overtime to make a good impression... hmm, maybe I just needed to put the fear of Og into them?

Originally Posted by faithfool

I'm a newbie at this too. The Other Half set me up a 10 gallon and I have one Betta (Maurice), four Tiger Barbs (the Dadas) and two snails (Spider and Creep). I really enjoy them but wish I understood the ecosystem better and was able to have real plants.

Unfortunately, I have a hard time keeping plastic ones alive.

The secret to plants really isn't a secret, match the type of plants you want to grow with the amount of light you have in the tank, if you have the standard 15 watt Flourescent tube cover, you're dealing with a low-light tank (1.5 watts per gallon) and you can grow slow-growing hardy plants;
Java Fern
Java Moss
Cryptocones species (Crypt. Wenditii and the like)
Hornwort
Hygrophilia and Water Wisteria
Water Lettuce
Salvinia
Frogbit

Avoid Duckweed like the plague, once introduced into a tank, it's almost impossible to eradicate, although an interesting piece of trivia about duckweed is that you can tell how clean your water is by the length of the duckweed roots, short roots indicate polluted water, long roots indicate clean water, the longer the root, the cleaner the water, the duckweed in my 20L has roots that are a little over an inch to an inch and a half long, indicating very clean water

If you're willing to up the light in your tank, by geting a glass top and another flourescent striplight, you can grow more light-hungry plants, but bear in mind the more light you have, the faster the nutrient/organic uptake is, if you add in "too many" plants (like in my 20L), you'll find that you'll have to actually *add* nitrogen to the tank or the plants will slowly starve, if you get more than 3 WPG, you might need to add CO2 injection to the tank, as plants will need the carbon to help them absorb nutrients, 3+ WPG and no CO2 is an invitation for algae, as algae can assimilate nutrients without the need for carbon suppliments

1-1.5 WPG = Low light, hardy mosses, ferns, hornwort, Thai Onion plants, Hygro and the like
2-2.5 WPG = medium light, most common aquarium plants, water sprite, Amazon Swords, Mayacas, Rotalas, etc...
3+ WPG+carbon dioxide, the fussiest of plants like Glosso, myrophiliums, Madagascar Lace plants and the like

I know it sounds complicated, but it really isn't, up your light output, maybe to the 2 WPG range, and put the lights on a timer, 8-12 hours or so, the biggest limiting factor for live plants is available light, give them light, and they should exponentially increase their growth

[gonzomax]

I hate small tanks. The bettas in a glass jar just rankles me. I think we owe pets more. We should try to mimic their environments as much as possible. Small fish in a 20 ,I can sort of live with,but most fish require more.
Cichlids are other agrgessive fish will tear up your plants trying to flush out prey fish they expect to be there. I just replant over and over.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

The bettas in a glass jar just rankles me.

Bettas in the flower arrangement annoy me. They evolved the ability to breathe air in oxygen poor water, but water quality and temperature are pretty lousy in a flower vase. All I keep now are killis in ten gallon tanks and goldfish in outdoor pools and I keep a light fish load indoors and out.

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

I hate small tanks. The bettas in a glass jar just rankles me. I think we owe pets more. We should try to mimic their environments as much as possible. Small fish in a 20 ,I can sort of live with,but most fish require more.

I have a single betta (Greg) in a 5 gallon filtered tank. He gets betta food and the occasional freeze-dried shrimp. He makes bubble nests and lives in a coconut. His water gets a 50% change about every 6 weeks. As far as I can tell based on his limited communication skills, he's happy. I'm pretty sure I don't owe him more than that.

[faithfool]

MacTech, thank you for the plant information. We're hoping to move within the next couple of months and I'll be holding off updating until then. But when the time comes, I'll refer to this thread and let the Other Half work his wonder.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by Jodi

I have a single betta (Greg) in a 5 gallon filtered tank.

Sounds like he's got everything he could want except a lady friend.

[Canadiangirl]

I have a 20 gallon tank, with two beautiful angels and two little tiny head and tail lights and one gold scuzzbuster (I can't remember what kind he is). No real plants - I tried them and the scuzzbuster ate them.

I love watching them. I make sure I only buy farmed fish.

[MacTech]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

I hate small tanks. The bettas in a glass jar just rankles me. I think we owe pets more. We should try to mimic their environments as much as possible. Small fish in a 20 ,I can sort of live with,but most fish require more.

From my experience with Bettas, i've found that any tank size 5 gallon and above is ideal, I'd prefer to have a larger tank for Chiana (my female in the cycled 2.5), but as female bettas are smaller than males, they can tolerate smaller tanks better, and since I've set up the 2.5 to be a heavily-planted nano-tank, I needed to have a fish in it to act as the ammonia source for the plants, I've been kicking around the idea of partitioning the 10 gallon and putting Rocky on one side and Chiana on the other....

still, Chiana's current tank is light-years better than the small Death-Cup she was in at the store, unheated, uncycled, 2.0 PPM of Ammonia, no plants or other cover, no places to play Where Do I Fit? (WDIF), and no snails to torment/eat....

her current digs, 2.5 gallons of clean water, Nitrogenous waste levels of 0/0/0, and a filtered**, heated tank with 27 watts of flourescent light pouring in with healthy, growing live plants, a flattened Marimo moss ball she can hide under, a dozen or so sprigs of Hornwort arranged in a "forest", a stem of Hygrophilia, and a slowly growing clump of Java Moss she loves to jam herself into, a couple brown rams for algae control and for her to play "Snail-Hockey" with

It's been said that it's pretty much nigh-impossible to cycle a 2.5 gallon tank, but my 2.5 is holding just fine, thank you, the secret is understocking/overfiltering and heavy planting, just like any other heavily-planted tank

However, if you really want to see a happy Betta, a heavily planted 10 or 20 gallon tank is absolute heaven for them, especially if you have a lot of floating cover plants, back when I had Water Lettuce in my tanks, the Bettas *LOVED* it, long, fuzzy, wispy roots to play WDIF in, and a large leaf structure to give them overhead cover, the only problem with Water Lettuce is that it killed my other plants, it was so prolific that it shaded out the other plants and soaked up all the nutrients faster than the other plants could get them, once, I deliberately overdosed my 10 gallon with WL in it with 10 mL of Flourish Nitrogen (the reccomended dose was 1 Ml) and it was *gone* in two days, the root structure doubled in length and fuzziness, I had to quit using the WL as it was too invasive, any tanks I put it in very rapidly became Water Lettuce-only tanks, as it shaded the rooted plants and outcompeted them for nutrients

the Bettas were in heaven in the WL tanks though....
(**Red Sea/Azoo Nano power filter, with a cut down cycled AquaClear sponge and some poly filter floss for water polishing, I may add in some cycled Fluval BioMax rings from the Fluval 204 on the 20L to add biofiltration capacity)

[3acresandatruck]

Wow, MacTech, I looked at the photo you linked to in your OP, and I'm really impressed with your plants. That's a beautiful tank; it seems like you're really into it, from reading your posts. I've had aquariums for a little over 30 years now, and I still use plastic plants! I don't have an active tank right now; I cleaned out my 55 and set it aside when my marble angels died a couple years ago. My memory must be faulty, but I'd swear I had them for about 15 years. Their bodies were smaller than dimes when I got them. I even successfully moved them to this house (in buckets of water in my car) when I moved out here seven years ago. (To minimize the shock, I brought a little over 30 gallons of water with me in buckets to set up the tank here. Let me tell you about making sudden stops with open water buckets...)

Lately, I've been getting the urge again. We've got terribly hard water here; the farmer next door says "it's as hard as a rock." I don't know of anything except African cichlids that do well in hard water, so, I'm thinking about trying an mbuna community. I'm looking at a plexi tank that's 96"L x 24"W x 18"'T. Not huge, but I think it would be a good size for cichlids.

[MacTech]

Originally Posted by 3acresandatruck

Wow, MacTech, I looked at the photo you linked to in your OP, and I'm really impressed with your plants. That's a beautiful tank; it seems like you're really into it, from reading your posts.

Thanks, but it's really nothing special, I basically ignore it, top it off when it needs it, and prune out leaves that are dying or covered with Staghorn algae, the tank basically maintains itself, and it helps that I like the unkempt "Jungle" look

I'll get some pics of it tonight, it's grown in completely, the open water in the middle of the tank is no longer open, one massive Hornwort plant has eaten up that space

Originally Posted by 3acresandatruck

Lately, I've been getting the urge again. We've got terribly hard water here; the farmer next door says "it's as hard as a rock." I don't know of anything except African cichlids that do well in hard water, so, I'm thinking about trying an mbuna community. I'm looking at a plexi tank that's 96"L x 24"W x 18"'T. Not huge, but I think it would be a good size for cichlids.

Africans are great for places with Liquid Rock, but there's a pretty easy way to soften your water if you want to keep South American species like Discus, Angels and the like

1; get a decent canister filter, an Eheim, Filstar, or Fluval (or even an AquaClear hang-on-back power filter)
2; fill the middle media basket (or middle sponge position on the AC) with Peat Moss (granules or loose peat), the tannic acids in peat will soften the water, lower the pH, and give the water a faint brownish "tea-like" stain, like the water South American fish are used to, it's safer, and more natural than using pH changing chemicals which are a temporary fix at most, if your water has a high general and carbonate hardness (which I'm sure it does) pH lowering chemicals (concentrated acids) only temporarily lower pH, the natural hardness of your water will cause the pH to rebound (the Aquarist term is "Chasing the Dragon"), and pH swings are stressful to fish, peat is safer, and since it's in the filter, always there to buffer the pH, pretty much a "set it and forget it" arrangement

Oh, and I'm nowhere near an expert, just a hobbyist with an obsessive-compulsive personality and a photographic memory when it comes to my hobbies, when I first get into a new hobby, I *devour* as much info as I can, to the point of overload.....