I’ve been new-car crazy for quite a while now (14 months ago I asked for opinions on the Chevy Cobalt), but the time of reckoning is finally near: I plan to buy a new car next month. The Cobalt is actually still on my “I should test drive one” list, though it’s in 3rd or 4th place. At the top of my list these days is the Mazda RX-8.
I think I love this car, at least on paper: nicely powerful rotary engine, functional back seats, sharp styling, and all of the options I want for ~$31k. Consumer Reports recommends it, though the reliability and cost of ownership are just average. Of course I plan to test drive one, along with the other cars in my list, but in the meantime I thought I’d ask for opinions from folks who own one (or who have owned one, or who know about them).
A couple of months ago my husband test drove a brand spankin’ new RX-8 (manual transmission) whilst I rode along in the passenger seat. It was noisy, it was a bumpy ride, and my husband was not impressed with the way the car handled or shifted. He ended up buying a used BMW with low miles, and still randomly mentions how fun it is to drive.
Take a lot of test drives–more than you think you need. You’ve got a generous budget and you may be surprised to find that a car you love in theory doesn’t feel right once you’re behind the wheel.
$31K is a lot of money for what you’re getting in my opinion. The rotary engine is a novelty and you’re paying a premium for it and servicing it down the road will probably be a hassle. I haven’t driven one but you’d better love it if you are going to take that plunge.
In a similar price range I’m attracted the Pontiac G8. I like the look and the shameless ripoff of the BMW M3 is a pretty good vehicle to copy.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all, which is why I said that of course I’ll be test driving the RX-8 and the other cars on my list. Thanks for passing along your husband’s experience! I’m definitely looking for a manual transmission.
So you think that with a standard engine (at the same horsepower) the car would be a lot cheaper? Hmm.
Yes, that is one of the things I’m keeping in mind with this car. I’d like to think that any significant issues would result in a less than “average” cost of ownership rating from Consumer Reports, but who knows. One friend told me that it would probably only be an issue if the engine broke, and that engines don’t break very often. I plan to talk to a few mechanics – not Mazda employees – about it and see what they think.
There are tons of great cars in that price range, but I have some narrow requirements: a new, sporty coupe (no sedans!) with some kind of backseat/rear area. A sunroof is almost a requirement, and heated seats are something I’d really like to have if possible. In a lower price range I’m looking at the Honda Civic Si and the Chevy Cobalt SS, and in the RX-8 price range I’m also considering the Nissan 350Z.
I have not driven an RX-8 except around the parking lot at one of my schools (and their in lies a tale :eek: )
I did drive one of the last RX-7 twin turbos and it was blindingly fast, (0-150 in a mile or so) and had impeccable handling. (another great tale) If the -8 is as good as that car was it would be one hell of a ride.
A few things you might want to think about
Pro:
Fast
Powerful (not quite the same as fast. A car can be powerful but not fast, the -8 is both)
A real sports car
Good handling
Super smooth engine. Piston engines can only wish to be this smooth.
Cons:
Very thirsty This sumbitch just flat drinks gas. It drinks gas like a wino goes through muscatel. It has fish saying, “Wow that guy can drink.”
Uses oil. This is by design, it has to put oil onto the tip seals to keep them alive. If you are not willing to check the oil on a very regular basis, and add as necessary do yourself a favor and get a different car. (also to keep the engine in oil, the sump is something like 7 quarts so you don’t run out right away, which means higher oil change prices.
Wankels are very dirty engines. High pollution, but they do clean up.
You will be limited in servicing choices. Everybody knows how to service a piston engine, very few people specialize in Wankels. This will limit the places you can take the car, and if you live in a small town, may have to either drive to the next town, or or go to the dealer.
Based on what I know, I would not plan on driving that car 250,000 miles on one engine.
Can’t say for sure, but with economies of scale and all it seems like a likely case.
Does it have to be new? That’s a price range where you could get some very nice Certified Used cars from the elite Europeans. BMW 3-series Coupe perhaps, would put all the others to shame.
Bingo! I paid around that amount (little more) for a 1-year-old BMW 325Ci with 10,000 miles. You will probably want a 330i for the extra power, but I love this car. The engine is smooth and sounds great, the handling is great, the manual transmission is great, the ride comfort is great, the seats are awesome - I drove 2100 miles cross-country four times stopping only for gas, snacks and sleep - never once got sore or tired. It has 100,000 miles now, and still doesn’t burn a drop of oil, even between the 15,000 mile oil changes. I’ve had no major problems with it, just stupid stuff like the glue that holds some interior rubber trim failing.
See “new” and “some kind of backseat/rear area” in the post above yours.
(Thanks for posting the link to the Wankel thread, though: good stuff in there!)
Wow, thanks! I’ve always been big on taking care of my cars, so having to pay attention to the oil would be ok with me, but a car that eats both gas and oil is definitely something to consider.
I’m currently driving my 3rd car, and my 2nd used car. My only new car was a no-frills, $11k '94 Mitsubishi Mirage that I drove for 10 years (and that made me a little prejudiced against Mitsubishis). For the first time since I started driving 21 years ago, I am in a position to get exactly what I want – within reason; the 350Z is at the absolute edge of my budget – and I simply don’t want another used car. I’ve had no real problems with my used cars, and I’ll probably wind up buying another one sometime – just not this time. This time is when I get the small, fast car that I’ve always wanted, with the options that I’ve always wanted. But I also want something that will last for at least a few years after it’s been paid off, because I plan to drive this next car into the ground (Stranger On A Train’s comment in the Wankel thread about rotaries typically needing to be rebuilt at 60k-80k miles has me a little concerned in this regard).
My co-worker has been VERY happy with his VW GTI, he came from a Mazda 6 (he was the one who got hit by a drunkie that totalled his Mazda), and the GTI seems to fit your criteria, sporty, small car with a usable back seat, I’m not sure if the new GTI’s have a manual option though, I hope so, my co-worker’s GTI has the DSG “Manumatic”
I just checked VW dot com, the GTI does come standard with a six-speed manual
Geesh, she’s looking at an RX-8 and a 350Z and people are coming in here and recommending wrong-wheel-drive cars? And BMWs? And Boxters?! Are you serious?
Rick is correct that rotaries are thirsty. No 30mpg for you! I wouldn’t say they drink oil, but I change mine every 2000 miles, and I am usually a little less than a quart low at that time. For a reliability standpoint, the Renesis is not going to need to be rebuilt every 60-80K miles IME. The issue with the older 13B-REW is the large amounts of power we like to put through them. 255hp stock (but 400+ modded)+twin turbos+poor cooling design=dead rotary.
The RX-8 will smoke a BMW anything short of an M3 through any twisties you want to throw at it. The handling is precise and amazing.
From an interior perspective, I have sat in the back seat of an 8 during a short trip. I am 6’2" and was reasonably comfortable. The rest of the interior is beautiful, IMHO.
I would definitely test drive one on the highway, in stop-and-go-traffic, and on a nice driving road, because using a high-revving, low-torque engine is different than what many people are used to. You need to keep it on the boil all the time to be getting anywhere rapidly. On the other hand, when it is all revved up, it’s like driving a race car. Super fun!
And smooth is right. Anyone who talks about a smooth engine who has never driven a rotary has no idea what they are talking about.
Actually, the GTI was in contention for a long time. I like VWs, and my first car was a Rabbit. But ultimately I just can’t take the styling: it’s too much a hatchback. A woman in my office drives one, and every time I see it I think “yeah, that’s not really for me.” Call me shallow or short-sighted, but I have to like the way a car looks just as much as I like everything else about it. The perfect car at the perfect price is useless to me if I’m not “attracted” to it. So the GTI is out, as is the Mini. I haven’t looked much at the R32, but I can’t check it out from work; I will give it a second look at home later, though.
Consider a Mazdaspeed3. $24,000, 25 MPG if you’re easy on it, 260 horspower, and 4 doors. Kinda a stealth hatchback rocket. Plus a lot of the MS3 guys put RX-8 wheels on the car, so at least you can still have RX-8 wheels!
I’ll just toss in something else to think about, based on our previous conversations and meetings: if you’re still thinking about going to the track with the new car, and think it might become a regular thing, plan on getting the Track version of the 350Z or upgrading the brakes of the RX-8 or almost any other car you get. IOW, expect to spend an extra $2,000-3,000 just to get decent brakes that will hold up to serious track work.
Of course, you can add them at a later date, when you’re sure you’ll need them. But many people who start going to the track end up adding other performance mods, spending thousands or tens of thousands more. So if the cars you’re thinking about are already at your price limit, you may not have anything left for track mods.
I know you said no sedans, but I’d suggest thinking twice about a WRX or an Evo. Even in their most basic trim they’ll be plenty of fun on track, and leave you with thousands in your pocket to spend on upgrades.
A friend of mine bought a Mazdaspeed 3 last year, and it’s a lot of fun, although it is front wheel drive and has a pronounced torque steer when you mash the throttle. I haven’t gotten him out to the track with it yet.
I take it you’ve ruled out a Miata? Not enough space?
Ooh, I only just noticed this thread. I did post over on the Wankel thread but I’ll just recap.
I owned an RX-8 for three years, from March 2004. I had the lower power version (190hp) but it was still plenty quick enough for me - I got a free track day when I bought it, which was the most fun I’ve had for a long long time. (Except when I came to work out how much it had actually cost me in petrol, oil and rubber!)
Pros:
Really fun to drive - handled beautifully, sweet sounding engine with a bleep to tell you when to change up a gear, because there is no other clue, no power drop off, no unpleasant, just power right up to the limiter and a sound like a jet getting up to take-off speed
Great handling - it cornered beautifully, and the stability control worked nicely. On wet roads you could get the back end to step out nicely but it never felt like it was going to escape. Roundabouts on wet days with no traffic around were FUN
Beautiful to look at, IMHO. I went for the cliched red option and it was gorgeous, especially in the sunlight with the mica paint. I like the quirky styling with the reverse-opening rear doors too
Nice interior - comfortable heated leather seats (that’s an extra BTW), good air-con, nice 6-CD changer
Four seats - not a huge amount of space in the back but fine for four adults for shortish journeys.
Better luggage space than a lot of similar cars - and being a four-seater you can store stuff on the back seats too if there’s only two of you.
Quite cheap for what it is - about £21k in the UK, but expensive to run!
Cons:
Fuel economy. 20mpg, less in town. Not sustainable when petrol costs as much as it does in the UK.
Oil use. Not a big issue but it’s something you have to remember to check. I’d only put a litre of oil in once every couple of months under normal use.
Engine prone to flooding - I never had this happen but heard a lot of reports of it. I think it has been addressed with later ECU versions, but you should avoid switching off the engine before it has warmed up (say 4 or 5 minutes). For the first few mins it idles at high revs; wait for the idle speed to drop right down before switching off.
Tyre life - this car encourages you to play and your tyres will not last long! And they’re expensive too - something like £600 a set IIRC
Visibility - this is not an easy car to park. You can’t see the corners, thanks to the curvy lines, and can see next to bugger all out of the back. Expect to kerb those alloys at some point, however careful you are *
Not so great in stop start traffic - as Necros said, you need a lot of revs, and the clutch can be a bit jumpy and grabby. Nothing like sitting in your new sports car with the windows down and then stalling in traffic… you get used to it, though!
Maybe less of a problem in America, where streets are wider and parking spaces bigger. The RX-8 is a wide car by UK standards, as I discovered when trying to fit it in my garage. I had owned it for barely a month, had measured and found I had 5 inches of clearance. Reversed in, got the wing mirrors through, and they’re the widest part of the car, right? Wrong, it’s those flared wheel arches. scrape :mad:
To late for the edit window but I would add that I had no reliability issues at all. I only owned it for three years and less than 40,000 miles, but it worked flawlessly in that time.
If you’re planning on keeping the car a long time, I’d say go with the Honda Civic Si. Or for something a little fancier, an Acura TSX, I think they’re available as a Coupe now and in your price range. How about a Mustang GT? You can bolt some serious horsepower, although winter driving might be a problem. I had a 90 and a 91 and got through the winter, but they’re not good starting off on hills.
*