We Have Pigeon Eggs

[Siam Sam]

So the wife and I just returned from a trip up North. We were gone nine days. Got home about 8:30 last night (Monday night). Turned on the lights, opened the curtains to the balcony. When I opened the curtains, a pigeon on the balcony freaked out and fled. That's odd, I thought. What's a pigeon doing out there this time of night? Then I saw that a nest had been built inside an empty flower pot, and there in the middle of it were two eggs! We never did see the parent return last night, but peeking out this morning, we saw it back in the nest.

A couple of pigeons have been scoping out our balcony for some time now. I guess with us being gone for nine days, they thought we'd left for good. But the wife's sister stopped by twice to water the plants on the balcony, and she didn't report anything when the wife talked to her on the phone this past weekend.

The Wikipedia entry on rock pigeons -- which I guess these are; don't see anything on just "pigeons" -- says it takes 17-19 days for the eggs to hatch, then 30 days for the nestlings to grow big enough to leave. Two eggs, just like it says, and they look exactly like the one in the Gallery photo toward the bottom of the entry.

It's after 10am Tuesday now, and I just opened the curtains REAL slowly and while standing far back (the cord is long). The parent -- Wikipedia says mother and father both take turns on the eggs -- stayed in place. The flower pot is right by the window; the windows are floor to ceiling by the balcony, so we have a good view of the nest. But the parent is looking at me awfully nervously. I'm trying not to go too near the window.

Looks like we'll have some little visitors with us for a while.

Too bad the pigeons crap all over the balcony.

Ah, now another pigeon has joined the parent that's in the nest since I've been typing this. They look alike and like the photo in the Wikipedia entry. One of the pigeons scoping us out earlier was white and speckled; I thought that would be one of the parents, but I guess not.

[levdrakon]

The young are often called "squeakers." You'll find out why if they hatch. You'll want to go out there and feed them yourself, to shut them up.

[Duck Duck Goose]

You can dress them up for the ornithologists and the birdwatchers by calling them "Rock pigeons", but they're still just your garden-variety flying rat.

Hey, interesting little fact: in mild climates, with abundant food, they will breed year round.

Say bye-bye to your balcony, Sam. It now belongs to your "rock pigeons".

[Siam Sam]

Well, I just witnessed a pigeon rape! I heard this squealing sound. Looked out, and one pigeon was desperately humping the other as it tried to flee across the balcony. Then they both flew off. One returned and walked over by the nest, then left again. No one's with the eggs now.

[Siam Sam]

And now one parent's back in the nest.

Geez, now I'm a bird-watcher.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Duck Duck Goose

Say bye-bye to your balcony, Sam. It now belongs to your "rock pigeons".

That's what we're worried about.

After the nestlings are grown, we're removing the flower pot. Dunno if that'll deter them, but they seem fixated on that. Even back when they were just checking us out, they kept hanging out inside the flower pot.

[pudytat72]

Those pigeon nestlings are ugly! Ugly for a long time! Unlike the peregrine falcons eyases-they are cute little puffballs! Check out these cuties: http://rfalconcam.com/imprints/ (which get fed pigeons)

[JThunder]

So, you will let us know how these eggs taste, right?

[Kalhoun]

I've always liked pigeons, and I love watching a nest. Lucky you!

[Mama Zappa]

Congratulations, you're now adoptive grandpigeons!

One fellow we knew had a narrow ledge outside his office window - about 18 inches. We saw a family of pigeons raised there one summer.

Another fellow we knew had no ledge. But for some reason, he opened the window screen a bit from the bottom - maybe 6 inches - and forgot it was up. He heard tapping on the window, and looked out, and there was a pigeon building a nest on the narrow space between the screen bottom (where it would have been if it had been down) and the window. Maybe 5 inches wide. He saw two clutches of babies hatching there. Mama bird (or papa?) always gave us the evil eye when she saw us.

And one year we had one build a nest in a window box on the edge of our deck. She also gave us dirty looks when we went anywhere near. We didn't do much grilling that summer.

[chowder]

[quote=Duck Duck Goose]You can dress them up for the ornithologists and the birdwatchers by calling them "Rock pigeons", but they're still just your garden-variety flying rat.

My advice, smash the eggs.

A pigeon is a pigeon is a flying rat as DDG says.

Verminous little fuckers

[Projammer]

Browned Squab with Roasted Salt and Pepper

2 x Squabs
Salt to taste
Freshly-ground black pepper to taste
1 tsp Dark soy sauce
4 cup Peanut oil for deep-frying
Roasted Salt And Pepper

Cut each squab in half. Rub with the salt, pepper and soy sauce. Deep-fry in the hot oil at 375 degrees until lightly browned, about 15 (?) minutes. Do not overcook.

Hack the squab into bite-sized slices and arrange on a heated platter.

Serve with Roasted Salt And Pepper. The pieces of bird are lightly dipped into the salt-and-pepper mixture.

This recipe serves 4 as part of a Chinese meal.

Comments: Squab, a fancy name for pigeon, is very popular with the Chinese. The meat is dark and moist and will respond to several methods of cooking. In ancient China these birds were eaten by rich and poor alike.

ETA: You were looking for recipes, right?

[JR Brown]

I have pigeon eggs. In a can, from one of the supermarkets in Chinatown. Add soy sauce, plum vinegar, a little sugar, a touch of garlic, and lots of sesame oil. Yum!

Also, Projammer's squab recipe

JRB
By starting this thread you are obliged by law to take pictures of baby pigeons and post them here!

[Siam Sam]

[quote=chowder]

Originally Posted by Duck Duck Goose

You can dress them up for the ornithologists and the birdwatchers by calling them "Rock pigeons", but they're still just your garden-variety flying rat.

My advice, smash the eggs.

A pigeon is a pigeon is a flying rat as DDG says.

Verminous little fuckers

I jokingly suggested tossing them over the rail, and the wife was horrified. I'm afraid we're stuck with them for the next six weeks or so.

Or maybe I'll start greasing up the pan on the sly.

[Ritter]

Sam, I'm envious! You have got an interesting few weeks ahead of you with the nest - bird watching has to be one of the most fascinating forms of 'zoning out' I've ever come across. I'm in New Zealand and am excited by the colder weather because of the little visitors that are coming back into our garden looking for a free meal

[cochrane]

Siam Sam, that's cool! I have a pair of white-winged doves currently nesting on a rafter over my front door. They raised about three clutches of eggs last year, and after they abandoned the nest for the winter, I decided to leave it and see if they would return. Sure enough, they did and are raising babies again. They are really cool to watch. I can see them from the inside without bothering the parents, but they are sufficiently used to human comings-and-goings that they don't flee when somebody comes to the door.

[Mangetout]

I'd have eaten the eggs the moment I saw them. But you probably knew that already.

[chowder]

[quote=Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by chowder

I jokingly suggested tossing them over the rail, and the wife was horrified. I'm afraid we're stuck with them for the next six weeks or so.

Or maybe I'll start greasing up the pan on the sly.

OK just wait until they hatch,strangle the little bastards after a few weeks, stuff 'em with a Mangetout approved stuffing and there ya go.

Enjoy

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by Projammer

Browned Squab with Roasted Salt and Pepper

I had this in Hong Kong at Shau Kee Pigeon Restaurant on Lamma Island. It came with a really tangy dipping sauce that looked just like soy but tasted nothing like it. Absolutely delicious.

[FarmerChick]

Watching Ma Nature is awesome. Watching Ma Nature do her thing on your balcony is way awesome!

Enjoy the show, and post pics when the little buggers hatchs.

[Siam Sam]

Here is a photo I took late this afternoon (Wednesday afternoon). That's the flower pot. There's one of the pigeons. The parents have been taking turns sitting on the eggs. This one is the smaller of the two, so we assume it's the mother. That was an empty flower pot when we left for the North earlier this month; the pigeons loaded in the twigs themselves.

This is actually an excellent location for the nest. That flower pot is largely protected from the wind and rain that we've had a lot of these last couple of days.

[Omegaman]

This brings back memories. One of the first articles I read after stumbling across the dope was this gem.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_015b.html

Perhaps you can provide pictures when they hatch. I've only ever seen the kind that leave a square foot of crap on my car in a single dump. Damn pigeons.

[TroubleAgain]

I found an egg-shell from probably a white-winged or mourning dove yesterday while walking my dog.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Here is a photo I took late this afternoon (Wednesday afternoon). That's the flower pot. There's one of the pigeons. The parents have been taking turns sitting on the eggs. This one is the smaller of the two, so we assume it's the mother.

With birds, females are usually larger, in some species significantly so. Most likely, that's the father you're looking at, although only the pigeons know for sure.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by TroubleAgain

I found an egg-shell from probably a white-winged or mourning dove yesterday while walking my dog.

And it had a 25c piece in it?
Which is prolly why it was mourning, it was expecting a baby flying rat

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

With birds, females are usually larger, in some species significantly so. Most likely, that's the father you're looking at, although only the pigeons know for sure.

Thanks! So, Dad's hunkered in for the night out there right now with the kids while Mom's out running around. It's usually the other way around in this town.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Here is a photo I took late this afternoon (Wednesday afternoon). That's the flower pot. There's one of the pigeons. The parents have been taking turns sitting on the eggs. This one is the smaller of the two, so we assume it's the mother. That was an empty flower pot when we left for the North earlier this month; the pigeons loaded in the twigs themselves.

Dad usually has as noticeably larger chest he puffs out like a bull or a lion. They do take turns sitting on the eggs, and IMHE, the shift change usually happens first thing in the morning and again around 4PM.

[Zebra]

Pigeons are NOT FLYING RATS!

Pigeons were domesticated by humans long before cats were and only 'shortly' after dogs. Pigeons are man's second best friend.


Yes, they can deliver 2 eggs a month, year round, if conditions are good. So you can see that raising them for food would be easy for early humans. But they have also been used for long distance communication for thousands of years.

The breeding of pigeons and their ability to go from highly specialized back to 'normal rock pigeon' helped Charles Darwin develop his theory of evolution.

Pigeons will foul their own nest but, they do not carry diseases. They don't carry West Nile Virus or Avian Flu, unlike some song birds.

Pigeons, in the US, are mostly considered feral animals. (domesticated animals running loose) This means they are not protected by laws the way robins are. You can kill pigeons with abandon and in fact, there are gun clubs that find clay pigeons to be boring and trap and shoot real ones. (but that's OK because they are flying rats)

The abilities of racing pigeons are amazing. Imagine being kidnapped, throw in the trunk of a car with a bag over your head and then, upon release in the wild, you turn around twice and point straight home. Forget flying there non-stop, just be able to point right at where you nest.



Pigeon erradication is mostly a scam. They come and posion the birds but do nothing to prevent other birds from nesting there so you can call them back time and time again. If you don't want them there, you will have to find a way to screen off the balcony or find where ever it is that their food source is and securing that.

Pigeons like people and other pigeons. That's why they come to the cities. They like us. But having some on your balcony may also induce other birds to nest there as well.


OH read this book.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Dad usually has as noticeably larger chest he puffs out like a bull or a lion. They do take turns sitting on the eggs, and IMHE, the shift change usually happens first thing in the morning and again around 4PM.

The bigger one has the bigger chest. That's the smaller one in the photo in my link above. It's still there, too. It's about 10:15am here; they last switched that I noticed yesterday afternoon.

Ah, wait. It just got up and flew off. Maybe the partner will return now.

No, it just returned with another twig or piece of straw.

[Scoundrel Swanswater]

Originally Posted by Zebra

Pigeons are NOT FLYING RATS!
Pigeons will foul their own nest but, they do not carry diseases. They don't carry West Nile Virus or Avian Flu, unlike some song birds.

They might not carry West Nile or Avian Flu but they are transmitters of a lot of diseases :

The best known disease passed from birds to man is Psittacosis but over 40 more diseases can be passed from feral pigeon to humans, including potentially infectious diseases such as salmonella, tuberculosis and ornithosis.

So, you might love the flying rat, but most people understandably hate them.
They are absolutely disgusting creatures.

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Well, I just witnessed a pigeon rape!

A local newspaper covered a story on a rare-ish bird of prey eating another bird in a garden in the town. However, they got their verbs a bit mixed up and described how this hawk had "ravished" a smaller bird, complete with grainy picture of one bird mounting another

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Scoundrel Swanswater

They might not carry West Nile or Avian Flu but they are transmitters of a lot of diseases :

The best known disease passed from birds to man is Psittacosis but over 40 more diseases can be passed from feral pigeon to humans, including potentially infectious diseases such as salmonella, tuberculosis and ornithosis.

So, you might love the flying rat, but most people understandably hate them.
They are absolutely disgusting creatures.

From here.

According to the CDC, there are 16 diseases commonly passed from cats to humans and 15 that dogs commonly passed to humans, some of these quite deadly. This information is taken from CDC's webpages "Diseases from Cats" and "Diseases from Dogs", which we highly encourage you to read.

Note that meticulous hand washing is really also the only way to help prevent humans from contracting things that they then pass on to other humans.

Sadly, people who do not understand something will tend to attack it.

Seriously, c'mon. I know lots of people who let their cats & dogs eat of their plate, sleep in the beds, lick their face, and make dinner after having put their hands all over their cat or dog which has been digging shit around a cat box or rolling in shit in the yard.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Dad usually has as noticeably larger chest he puffs out like a bull or a lion. They do take turns sitting on the eggs, and IMHE, the shift change usually happens first thing in the morning and again around 4PM.

We're picking up on their routine now. They seem to switch out about 10:30am and then again in the late afternoon. This means the smaller one has much more sitting time, but I'm sure they've worked it out to their satisfaction. They just switched a little while ago -- it's almost 11am here -- and the larger one is there now. Even though this is the one with the larger chest, it's larger overall, so I'll assume it's the female. It's the more nervous of the two; the other one seems to have become more accepting of us humans, although still not happy we've come home.

[Broomstick]

It's possible to have a larger male/smaller female with birds, just not common. From what you say that may be the case here, but really, aside from who actually squeezes out the egg, pigeon parents share parent duties pretty equally.

Males puff out their chest, they strut more, and they will tend to chase females, but post-mating you'll see less of that behavior. it won't cease entirely, but for the near future those two are going to be really, really busy first keeping those eggs warm then feeding the babies.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

Males puff out their chest, they strut more, and they will tend to chase females, but post-mating you'll see less of that behavior. it won't cease entirely, but for the near future those two are going to be really, really busy first keeping those eggs warm then feeding the babies.

There was the pigeon rape I witnessed the other day, but that happened quickly and before I started picking up on their differences. They look very similar to each other, but I can see some differences in markings now. The smaller one has definitely become more comfortable with us. The wife went out to water the plants this evening, and the parent on duty fled only to the other side of the balcony instead of flying away.

[Broomstick]

If you want to make friends offer a little food - rice, bread, that sort of thing. I wouldn't give them a lot, and they aren't ever going to be pets, but it might convince them that you aren't planning to eat them or their young.

[Siam Sam]

Well, we're not really wanting them to hang around. We're letting them stay until the squabs are raised, but then we're taking the flower pot back. So I don't want to start fraternizing too closely. They're still crapping all over the balcony.

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by Scoundrel Swanswater

They might not carry West Nile or Avian Flu but they are transmitters of a lot of diseases :

The best known disease passed from birds to man is Psittacosis but over 40 more diseases can be passed from feral pigeon to humans, including potentially infectious diseases such as salmonella, tuberculosis and ornithosis.

So, you might love the flying rat, but most people understandably hate them.
They are absolutely disgusting creatures.

Kill those bastards! Kill them--before they get to the children!

Stranger

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

There was the pigeon rape I witnessed the other day, but that happened quickly and before I started picking up on their differences. They look very similar to each other, but I can see some differences in markings now. The smaller one has definitely become more comfortable with us. The wife went out to water the plants this evening, and the parent on duty fled only to the other side of the balcony instead of flying away.

I seem to vaguely recall the dad gets the day shift so poor tired mom (you try popping out eggs) can get the prime-time food foraging. I could be mistaken.

You're going to have to make a decision though. Pigeons are companionable and there's definitely a small instinct in them to allow humans they're familiar with to be part of their "family." If you're not actively trying to kill them, they'll get used to you and hang out with you just because.

Dad has found a good nesting place to raise his family. You're stuck. Take the flower pot away if you want. Pigeon twig-nests are very simple and don't serve much purpose other than to mark off where the nest is and maybe help hold the eggs in place a little. But pigeons will make nests on any flat cliff-like surface that provides a little shelter, so don't be surprised if you take the pot away and he just builds another twig-nest in the same spot. You may be stuck with this couple until they die, or you take aggressive means to repel them which, in my humble opinion would be a shame. They really are companionable. They won't hop into your lap for snuggles or anything, but they will hang out with you just 'cause they like you.

As to their differences, the males are often a bit larger with the fuller chest I mentioned, and if you watch them in a flock for awhile, you'll notice the males chasing the females, puffing up their chests, and if they're serious about it, the males fan their tail feathers out and drag them along the ground like a broom. If they're really, really showing off, they grab a twig and present it to the female. Nothing says "love" like a male who can demonstrate he knows how to build a nest. After they're paired & mated, they don't do the sexual courtship displays quite so much, but you'll see a pair sitting off to the side together snuggling and grooming each other, which is pretty cute.

[Siam Sam]

Well, there's no way we're turning them out at this point, so if we're stuck, so be it.

The wife mentioned this to the building management, and they told her this was actually not an uncommon problem in our building. First we've heard about it. (But I'll bet snug, empty flower pots are few and far between.)

[Broomstick]

As the possession of three birds (two cockatiels and a conure) I have found that ammonia-based window-cleaner is pretty effective at cleaning up bird shit. Use old toothbrush for any stubborn spot.

[Siam Sam]

Well, we broke down and put some bread crumbs out. Both pigeons ignored them, but a swarm of ants eventually appeared out of nowhere and started carting them off. I HATE ants! Cleaned up the crumbs and killed as many ants as I could. (Don't want to spray around the pigeons.) This morning we put some water out, but that's being ignored, too.

The changeovers have consistently been about 10:30am and 5pm, but it's almost 11:30am now, and the larger one has yet to show up. It may be our imagination, but the little one is looking a little nervous. This has prompted the wife to ask what would happen if the mate died and never returned. Pigeons mate for life, but do widows find another mate?

[levdrakon]

For some reason I got the impression you live in a high-rise, so ants would really piss me off.

Anyway, I feed them bread that's been soaked in some water. I also feed them leftover rice with some water added. I cook lots of rice and always have some left over.

For water, I put out a wide, shallow tray that doubles as water dish-bird bath. About once a week they'd decide it was bath day. Beats me why. After they thoroughly bath and get all wet they poke out all their feathers and sit around looking like little round porcupines. If they do that you know you've got contented pigeons.

If you want to really spoil them look in your local pet store for pigeon feed. They probably won't have it but they may have dove food which is pretty much the same thing. Pigeon/dove food seems to have a higher proportion of cracked corn and dried peas, from what I can tell. They're happy with regular cheap wild bird food too.

Just my $.02.

[Duck Duck Goose]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Well, we broke down and put some bread crumbs out. Both pigeons ignored them

Birdseed is a better bet, if you really want to feed them. Over here you'd go down to Garver Feeds (for the 50 lb. Serious Birdfeeder's Bag) or PetSmart (for the 2 lb. Twee Backyard Feeder), and get a mix of millet, miscellaneous seeds like rape, milo, thistle, wheat, oats, and lots of corn (maize), generally simply known as "wild birdseed". In my experience, the pigeons will totally ignore everything except the corn and the millet.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

For some reason I got the impression you live in a high-rise, so ants would really piss me off.

We're on the 6th floor of a 36-story building. But ants are a fact of life in Thailand; I'll bet they really are up on the 36th floor, too! We spray everywhere inside once a week or so, but I don't want to spray outside with the pigeons there right now.

May try the birdseed, although they do seem to get enough food from the neighborhood. Our building is right next to a large mansion with beautiful grounds. One side of our unit overlooks the grounds. Lots of birds hang out there, and the eating looks to be good.

One of them anyway has been drinking the water. We'll look for something a bit larger.

Oh, and the mate finally did show up. They seem to have pushed the clock up a little to around 11:30am.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

One of them anyway has been drinking the water. We'll look for something a bit larger.

They like water at ground level. No cutesy pedestal bird baths. What I did is go to the garden store and find the biggest clay plant tray I could find, then went to the craft store and got some water proof paint (non-toxic), painted it up and the pigeons were way happy. Just hose it out and refill it with fresh water. You do have a garden hose with a spray attachment, right? I mean, if you're going to hang out with pigeons you pretty much have to have a hose with a jet spray to clean things off.

Oh, and the mate finally did show up. They seem to have pushed the clock up a little to around 11:30am.

Men.

[Siam Sam]

No, no hose, and no faucet to attach one to. We just pour out water and scrub with a long-handled brush.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

No, no hose, and no faucet to attach one to. We just pour out water and scrub with a long-handled brush.

That'll work. You've only got the pair, not a kit.

[Siam Sam]

Just an update. Tomorrow night (Monday night) will make two weeks since we came home and found the pigeon nest and eggs out on our balcony. They're still out there. The pigeons are still taking shifts, changing at roughly 11am and 5pm every day. The larger one takes the daytime 11-5-ish shift, while the smaller one pulls the 18-hour 5pm-11am shift. The little one's out there now. We keep water out there by them, changing it twice a day. They usually don't freak out anymore when we go out to change it. Only the one time have I seen either one actually touch the water -- the first time I put some out, when the little one returned from being freaked out by my going out there. It took a long drink before hopping back into the flower pot. Since then, they've ignored it, but it's there if they want it.

The Wikipedia entry says the eggs hatch after 17-19 days, so we expect squabs this week. While we were away, the wife's sister stopped by a couple of times to water the plants on the balcony. The last time she did that was Friday the 2nd, and she believes she would have noticed eggs in the flower pot if they had been there. So we're assuming the eggs were laid maybe just about 14 days ago.

EDIT: Oh, and they've stopped crapping all over the balcony. After our first round of scrubbing it all up, they've not used the balcony for that purpose again. I guess that's because they spend ALL of their time in the flower pot. The mate is never around until shift change, then the other one flies away immediately. I have noticed a little crap inside the flower pot itself now.

[levdrakon]

I was just sitting outside this morning and thought of this thread. I hope we can expect baby pics!

Baby pigeons are kinda cute. They've got punk rocker feathers and when they first start to fly they frequently fuck up and make clumsy tumble landings. Then they jump up with a look like, "I meant to do that!"