The Burj Dubai: Earthquake Generator?

[Siam Sam]

The Burj Dubai is a skyscraper being built in the UAE. Upon completion next year, it will be the tallest manmade structure in the world. (May already be, depending on how far along construction is.)

The Taipei 101 in Taiwan is the previous tallest structure. Apparently, the weight of that building has resulted in increased seismic activity in the ground beneath it. See here and here.

I don't have a cite for it, but I've been told that because of the Taipei 101 seismic activity, there's a question about what effect the Burj Dubai will have.

[Xema]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Upon completion next year, it will be the tallest manmade structure in the world. (May already be, depending on how far along construction is.)

The Wiki article says it became the tallest structure on April 7, when it surpassed the height of a TV mast in North Dakota.

[Marley23]

I think this would be an interesting topic for Cecil or the staff.

[Jeeves]

One thing that was stressed by a couple of different professors I had was that large reservoirs will cause increased seismic activity, so you have to be extra careful in finding as many faults as possible when designing dams. They also used the Three Gorges Dam as a place where the earthquakes result in inland tsunamis. I can certainly imagine that any small faults located very near the Burj Dubai may have increased activity due to the increased weight. There is still a massive amount of information we don't know about earthquakes, hell anything subsurface.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I think this would be an interesting topic for Cecil or the staff.

Just dashed a note off to the relevant e-mail address. We'll see if anything develops. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Siam Sam]

Updates on the Burj Dubai's construction and more can be found here.

[matt]

Originally Posted by Jeeves

One thing that was stressed by a couple of different professors I had was that large reservoirs will cause increased seismic activity, so you have to be extra careful in finding as many faults as possible when designing dams.

Are you telling me that the plot of View to a Kill has a basis in fact? You really could make an earthquake by pumping seawater into faulted rock, and setting off a kiloton or so of ANFO? 'Cos that would be pretty cool.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Dubai is a good thousand miles or so from the Arabian-Indian plate boundary. Isn't that far enough to make significant earthquakes pretty unlikely?

[lieu]

I don't doubt that skyscrapers can be built to specs that exceed the ability of their foundations and local strata to provide them adequate support. That some shallow straining and shifting of the ground just beneath would occur comes as no surprise.

But my guess is that the weight of even the heaviest buildings, either gross or tons per foot, would absolutely pale in comparison to that of the crust beneath them and they'd have no effect on movement along those fault systems responsible for the generation of earthquakes.

[Zebra]

But what if the Taipei 101 jumped off a chair? and shouted?

[Colophon]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Updates on the Burj Dubai's construction and more can be found here.

And really obsessive skyscraper geekiness and constant photo updates here.

(Link currently points to last page of 374-page thread. And I think that's the 28th thread or something stupid.)

It really is just quite ridiculously, insanely, ludicrously tall, and there are still several hundred feet of spire to go. It's tall.

I have to see this thing in the flesh one day.

[lieu]

Originally Posted by Colophon

I have to see this thing in the flesh one day.

I suspect that would look like a boner.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Dubai is a good thousand miles or so from the Arabian-Indian plate boundary. Isn't that far enough to make significant earthquakes pretty unlikely?

I believe at least one fault beneath the Taipei 101 was unknown before. Maybe the Burj Dubai will find some?

As for the weight of the Earth's crust, maybe that's spread out more? That of the Burj Dubai and Taipei 101 is more concentrated. Similar to an elephant's foot exerting less pressure per square inch than a deer's.

[Siam Sam]

There are some great new photos of the Burj Dubai here, here and here.

And again, the skyscaper's website is here.

[Hampshire]

I wonder how much man made weight the island of Manhattan holds?
Buildings, pavements, subways, sewers, people, cars, etc.

[Siam Sam]

This is amazing, but even as the Burj Dubai, which will be the world's tallest building, nears completion, Dubai has announced plans to construct an even taller building! It will tower more than 1 kilometer into the air. Story here.

Excerpt: "With its world's tallest building nearing completion, Dubai said today it is embarking on an even more ambitious skyscraper: one that will soar more than 1 km into the air. That's the height of more than 10 American football fields, 13 Airbus A380 superjumbo jets or three of New York's Chrysler Buildings stacked end-to-end."

[friedo]

Originally Posted by matt

Are you telling me that the plot of View to a Kill has a basis in fact? You really could make an earthquake by pumping seawater into faulted rock, and setting off a kiloton or so of ANFO? 'Cos that would be pretty cool.

I don't know about that, but the filling of Lake Mead (the largish pond behind the Hoover Dam) causes a few small earthquakes in the surrounding area as the weight of the water screwed with the tectonic plates.

[Siam Sam]

And now we see that the stalled property market in Dubai will not derail plans for this new tallest building, according to the master developer, Nakheel. Story here.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Dubai is a good thousand miles or so from the Arabian-Indian plate boundary. Isn't that far enough to make significant earthquakes pretty unlikely?

Bingo. Taiwan is on the ring of fire. Dubai isn't close to a major plate boundary. I seriously doubt if it will cause an earthquake. (Unless it holds it breath until it turns blue, in which case all bets are off.)

Hanging some numbers on it, the Wiki article estimates the completed weight of the tower at around 922,000 tons. That is about 1.1 million cubic yards of water, or roughly equivalent to a reservoir about 30 yards deep by 215 yards in diameter. The Three Gorges reservoir contains about 51 billion cubic yards of water spread over 244 square miles. A whole different league.

I think the whole thing is kinda funny. Architects get all damp and fluttery over it, but from a money and utility angle it just doesn't pencil out. Rather odd and very Freudian.

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

This is amazing, but even as the Burj Dubai, which will be the world's tallest building, nears completion, Dubai has announced plans to construct an even taller building! It will tower more than 1 kilometer into the air. Story here.

Excerpt: "With its world's tallest building nearing completion, Dubai said today it is embarking on an even more ambitious skyscraper: one that will soar more than 1 km into the air. That's the height of more than 10 American football fields, 13 Airbus A380 superjumbo jets or three of New York's Chrysler Buildings stacked end-to-end."

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

I think the whole thing is kinda funny. Architects get all damp and fluttery over it, but from a money and utility angle it just doesn't pencil out. Rather odd and very Freudian.

Very, if you ask me. What is their obsession with absurdly giant buildings now? After 9/11, anything taller than a Motel-6 is a target as far as I'm concerned. People will spend their lives obsessing about how to bring these buildings down.

[Siam Sam]

I vote they should name the new tower Babel.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I vote they should name the new tower Babel.

Or maybe "Johnson".

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Chefguy

Or maybe "Johnson".

Yes! Gotta love it.

So why does this thing exist? Ask the developer and he will say, so what if it's expensive, it's selling like hotcakes.

To a tenant it's a statement. Nothing screens out the riff raff like the brute power of money. And it might even make sense. If, say, a broker is able to rub shoulders with the right people down by the pool, the increased business might make the rent look like a good investment.

The broker's rich customers are trying to screen out posers and find people who effectively get things done. A broker who can afford a place like that must surely be effective at making money. You can only fake that for so long.

This is how big money creates it's own reality.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

Yes! Gotta love it.

So why does this thing exist? Ask the developer and he will say, so what if it's expensive, it's selling like hotcakes.

To a tenant it's a statement. Nothing screens out the riff raff like the brute power of money. And it might even make sense. If, say, a broker is able to rub shoulders with the right people down by the pool, the increased business might make the rent look like a good investment.

The broker's rich customers are trying to screen out posers and find people who effectively get things done. A broker who can afford a place like that must surely be effective at making money. You can only fake that for so long.

This is how big money creates it's own reality.

"Johnson Tower, Where All The Rich Pricks Hang Out"

[waterj2]

Originally Posted by Chefguy

"Johnson Tower, Where All The Rich Pricks Hang Out"

I'd say that "... who knows what opportunities might pop up" would better fit the, er, rather erect posture of the thing.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

The broker's rich customers are trying to screen out posers and find people who effectively get things done. A broker who can afford a place like that must surely be effective at making money. You can only fake that for so long.

Well, sure, but there's a tipping point to that.

There are only so many such people, and if you build the building bigger than will fit ALL of them, then your price point is compromised.

You can't be an exclusive building if you're so big that the only way to recoup your construction costs is to lease to EVERYBODY.

[Siam Sam]

Lightning strikes the top of the Burj Dubai. See it here, here, here and here.

[willthekittensurvive?]

Wasn’t using Skyscrapers as giant acupuncture needles on global leylines the chief instrument of global domination for the old man of the mountain and his Hashshashin?

Or are we not allowed to talk about it?I keep forgetting

[Siam Sam]

And now, the Burj Dubai is attracting BASE jumpers intent on setting a world record. There have already been successes. Video here.

[Desert Nomad]

Originally Posted by Colophon

And really obsessive skyscraper geekiness and constant photo updates here.

(Link currently points to last page of 374-page thread. And I think that's the 28th thread or something stupid.)

It really is just quite ridiculously, insanely, ludicrously tall, and there are still several hundred feet of spire to go. It's tall.

I have to see this thing in the flesh one day.

I used to live 2km from it. It IS insanely tall. When it was only 60 floors or so it seemed like any other building, then at 100 or so it seemed well quite tall indeed, at 140 floors it was OMG tall.

[jayjay]

The Burj Dubai and this new planned 1km tower are what happens when you have too much money chasing too few goods...same thing with those manmade islands like the Palm Island and the giant world map. Dubai is insane with Spenditis.

[Captain Lance Murdoch]

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

Architects get all damp and fluttery over it, but from a money and utility angle it just doesn't pencil out. Rather odd and very Freudian.

Engineers maybe. Architects will likely treat it as an object of ridicule, like most of the stuff in Dubai.

[Finagle]

Is there any rationale for skyscrapers in Dubai? Is real estate at a premium? Looking at the skyline in the pictures, it doesn't seem as though they've really been forced to expand upwards for previous buildings. Granted, they are building huge artificial islands, but that could just be a desire for more beachfront property.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, land values are high, but not, like, Manhattan/The City/Otemachi high. Certainly not high enough to require 150-floor office buildings.

There's rarely a rationale for a skyscraper of this type anyway. Neither downtown Kuala Lumpur or the Chicago Loop area boast particularly high land values. You could have built two Sears half-towers for much, much less than the price of one full-size one, or four half-Petronas Towers.

[user_hostile]

I think I read about this in the Time/Life Science series of books in the 60's, that Manhattan was actually "lighter" since the earth being excavated down to the bedrock exceeded the weight of the buildings being thrown up.

On the other hand, the same series talked about all of the Chinese jumping off chairs and generating enormous tsunamis... which was literally the very first Straight Dope article I ever read and started me on Cecil's enlighten path.