Fat Acceptance Movement

Great Debates
1

I’ve been perusing lots of blogs lately, and in particular, a lot of fat acceptance ones (Shapely Prose, Eat a Cheeseburger, Size Ate, among others), and am of two minds. A lot of them raise points about the discrimination and generally suckiness that fat people face on a daily basis that I never thought about. But some of them do go a little too far and get almost hyperbolic in their defense of fat having little to do with health. And granted, some people are just never going to be thin and can be healthy at their weight.

I guess what I’m rambling about is…how far can it go? Can you accept/tolerate “fat” while also at the same time admitting that either extreme (too thin or too fat) is unhealthy? and how much of our own biases come into this? That is, when I see a lot of the pictures posted on these blogs, I tend to think, “That’s unhealthy,” but is that because the people are genuinely unhealthily fat or because on some level, we just don’t like seeing it?

2

We should not have a fat acceptance movement for the same reason we should not have a stinky body odor acceptance movement―fatness and BO are disgusting.

We should also realize that there people of different shapes. Some people will be heavier, but this does not mean they have to be fat.

3

[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
We should also realize that there people of different shapes. Some people will be heavier, but this does not mean they have to be fat.
[/QUOTE]
Hmm. Do you have some sort of disgust-o-meter that tells you when this line is crossed?

I’d like to be accepted as I am, with no judgments about my work ethic, strength of character, general abilities and personality made based on my weight. I don’t claim to be healthy but even that is my own business. The only thing to gather from my being fat is that I’m fat, that is, a given shape. Just like everyone else.

4

[QUOTE=gigi]
Hmm. Do you have some sort of disgust-o-meter that tells you when this line is crossed?

I’d like to be accepted as I am, with no judgments about my work ethic, strength of character, general abilities and personality made based on my weight. I don’t claim to be healthy but even that is my own business. The only thing to gather from my being fat is that I’m fat, that is, a given shape. Just like everyone else.
[/QUOTE]

No one claimed to judge your work ethic, character and so on based on your weight. You admit that you are fat and unhealthy. That is what the OP asked about, weight and health. I am overweight, not by a lot but I am, and I don’t WANT to have my fat accepted. I want it to go away.

I find the concept of accepting fat to be ridiculous.

5

I know a lot of people, especially on these blogs, question the BMI as an indicator of health. Obviously, morbid obesity isn’t healthy, but a lot of people do claim that they’re healthy when they’re not THAT big, but bigger than most. Would you guys just see that as self-delusion (Two and a Half Inches, Antinor, or is there any truth there?

6

No one should ever be cruel to people as a matter of course.

But no, fat should never be acceptable. We as a nation are way too fat.

7

[QUOTE=gigi]
I don’t claim to be healthy but even that is my own business.
[/QUOTE]

Unhealthy people drive up healthy people’s insurance insurance. Other than that I agree.

8

[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
We should not have a fat acceptance movement for the same reason we should not have a stinky body odor acceptance movement―fatness and BO are disgusting.

We should also realize that there people of different shapes. Some people will be heavier, but this does not mean they have to be fat.
[/QUOTE]

Why am I not suprised to see you here. :rolleyes:
As far as I’m concerned being obese is unhealthy (in 99% of cases) but that doesn’t mean it’s anyone elses business. Most people do something unhealthy. Smokers probably do far more damage to their bodies, but that seems to be more acceptable. Also, just because someone’s overweight, it doesn’t neccessarily mean they’re completely unfit. They aren’t likely to run a marathon, but they also aren’t going to collapse after two steps. I have no problem with people saying that they don’t find fat people physically attractive, I don’t generally and I am one, but to say fat people are disgusting is going a bit far. Then again the only person who’s said that so far is 2 1/2", whose opinion counts for more or less nothing.

So basically, IMHO, being overweight is a bad idea but as long as the individual is happy then it’s no-one elses concern.
On preview Just to clarify, the only time I feel that fat is a major problem is when it starts affecting your quality of life e.g. not being able to walk further than the end of the street, not fitting in seats etc. Otherwise it’s no-one elses business.

9

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
I know a lot of people, especially on these blogs, question the BMI as an indicator of health. Obviously, morbid obesity isn’t healthy, but a lot of people do claim that they’re healthy when they’re not THAT big, but bigger than most. Would you guys just see that as self-delusion (Two and a Half Inches, Antinor, or is there any truth there?
[/QUOTE]

In general, I would say it is self-delusion. I obviously will not try to speak for every overweight person since health is going to vary widely.

10

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
No one claimed to judge your work ethic, character and so on based on your weight. You admit that you are fat and unhealthy. That is what the OP asked about, weight and health. I am overweight, not by a lot but I am, and I don’t WANT to have my fat accepted. I want it to go away.

I find the concept of accepting fat to be ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]
The OP asked about the fat acceptance movement, not just about weight and health, and about whether judgments are made beyond whether someone is healthy. Maybe you’re not claiming to judge these things, but that’s not everyone.

Fat affects wages, perhaps because of employers’ judgments…

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/the-wage-effect-of-fat/
http://neweconomist.blogs.com/new_economist/2007/12/lempert.html

11

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
**No one claimed to judge your work ethic, character and so on based on your weight. **You admit that you are fat and unhealthy. That is what the OP asked about, weight and health. I am overweight, not by a lot but I am, and I don’t WANT to have my fat accepted. I want it to go away.

I find the concept of accepting fat to be ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]

(Bolding mine)

I agree with the general tone, insofar as that I’ve worked very, very hard to lose an extreme amount of weight over the past couple of years. I don’t want obesity to become accepted as the norm in the same way that I wouldn’t want smoking to be accepted as the norm. Both are severely unhealthy states. That opinion doesn’t in any way prevent me from feeling hunky-dory about smokers or fat people. Their choices are their own, and sometimes they’re beyond making different choices for a variety of reasons. What it comes down to is that I don’t feel I have a right to an opinion about anyone else’s body, period.

On the other hand, in regards to the bolded line, having been on both sides of the cheesecake fence, I can say with absolute conviction that people (not all people, but some) definitely do judge your work ethic, character, and other personality traits based on your weight, for weights over a certain deviation from the norm.
People treat me vastly differently now than they did a hundred and ten pounds ago. I had problems getting a job, even for intellectual, physically sedentary work. People speak to me differently and with different body language. They seem to assume that you’re stupid or lazy because you’re fat–so I think it’s absolutely right that gigi addresses this as an “acceptance” issue.

As for your last line, I don’t think we should “accept” extreme obesity as a normal, healthy physical state, but I do think people should accept a state of fatness in another person the same way they’d accept any other physical trait. That is to say, I don’t think people should be assumed to be mentally inferior because of it.

Freudian Slit–my doctor believes that the BMI chart is really only appropriate for a very particular set of people, and that the entry for my height is absolutely too low for my build. The closest I have ever been to the BMI’s stated “ideal” weight for my height as a teenager or adult was twenty pounds over, and at that weight I was anemic and eating-disorder-skinny, to the point where my skull looked disproportionate to the rest of my body, and you could count my vertebrae. Being short does not always equal being “petite” in build. I am stocky and muscular under the layer of squishy.

12

This video:

and Private Site this post are the kinds of attitudes I have been encountering–the idea that fat per se isn’t necessarily unhealthy.

From the second link:

13

[QUOTE=gigi]
The OP asked about the fat acceptance movement, not just about weight and health, and about whether judgments are made beyond whether someone is healthy. Maybe you’re not claiming to judge these things, but that’s not everyone.

Fat affects wages, perhaps because of employers’ judgments…

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/the-wage-effect-of-fat/
http://neweconomist.blogs.com/new_economist/2007/12/lempert.html
[/QUOTE]

I’ve been perusing the Shapely Prose blog that the OP mentioned to get a better idea of what the fat acceptance movement was all about. I’m a little mixed on it, since they do offer some good ideas. But the underlying concept that “you’re fat, enjoy it!” (my interpretation) really bugs me.

14

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
But the underlying concept that “you’re fat, enjoy it!” (my interpretation) really bugs me.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your response. I wouldn’t go so far as to revel in being fat*, but certainly people can come to the point where they don’t want to have to suffer to fit a different shape anymore. At that point, they come to accept themselves and hope that other people can just look at it as one of a gazillion shapes that are out there, period. And maybe projecting an enjoyment of who one is will lead to others not thinking badly of it either.
*I’d love to just be who I am and not have to think about it one way or another. But being an outlier, I can’t do that.

15

I realize I’m being slightly hypocritical here. I’m a smoker, which is obviously a very unhealthy thing just like being overweight is. But I enjoy smoking and don’t want to give it up. I’ll have to ponder this some more. Why am I worried about the health aspect of my weight but not nearly as much about the smoking. The weight directly affects my appearance in a way that smoking does not, so that might be a lot of it.

Sorry, got to rambling there…

16

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
But I enjoy smoking and don’t want to give it up.
[/QUOTE]
And I love food and eating the same way. I go to work and I hope I do a pretty good job every day, I am almost never sick, I don’t use non-prescription drugs, I follow the tenets of my belief system closely, I don’t smoke, I drink in moderation. I’m polite and try to be friendly and I curse like a sailor only when it’s safe to do so. I try to give others the benefit of the doubt and not judge their choices. The only thing I go nuts with is food. To have to give that up? I’ve got nothing. I want to be able to do what I want with food and not have it negate all the other good things about myself in others’ eyes, or in my own.

Heh, talk about rambling!

17

One of the things I was curious about is the idea put forth on the blogs that fat people don’t really eat that much more than thin or average weight people. I mean, obviously some do, but I suppose metabolism does change from person to person–I’m one of those people who can eat chocolate and sugar and so forth and not gain an ounce even if I didn’t obsessively exercise. But then again, when I consider how much more most Americans weigh now than we used to…obviously, our habits have something to do with it, and individual metabolisms/bodies can’t be entirely blamed.

18

I think we should regard being fat as a health issue, and not try to turn it into a moral one. Not only is it obnoxious to insult people for being fat, it’s a less effective way of combating the problem. “Accepting” fat as healthy is a bad idea, but treating obesity as a crusade against evil fat people is worse, if anything.

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit’s Link]

An addiction model for treatment of compulsive eating is clearly limited by the fact that abstinence from food is not an option.

[/QUOTE]
I do think this is important to keep in mind, given the people who talk about “all you have to do is eat less” as if that was so easy. At least someone addicted to alcohol or heroin can try to avoid temptation; they aren’t required to take just a little bit each day.

19

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
One of the things I was curious about is the idea put forth on the blogs that fat people don’t really eat that much more than thin or average weight people. I mean, obviously some do, but I suppose metabolism does change from person to person–I’m one of those people who can eat chocolate and sugar and so forth and not gain an ounce even if I didn’t obsessively exercise. But then again, when I consider how much more most Americans weigh now than we used to…obviously, our habits have something to do with it, and individual metabolisms/bodies can’t be entirely blamed.
[/QUOTE]

Part of the problem is we ALL eat more now then we used to, especially in the US.

An interesting study from here

20

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I do think this is important to keep in mind, given the people who talk about “all you have to do is eat less” as if that was so easy. At least someone addicted to alcohol or heroin can try to avoid temptation; they aren’t required to take just a little bit each day.
[/QUOTE]

But truthfully, you don’t have to eat less. You can gorge yourself on carrot sticks and steamed broccoli all day long. Yes, it’s not as delicious as hamburger and cheesecake. But you aren’t “required to take just a little bit” of high fat/sugar food each day.