Why I am voting Republican

[newcrasher]

Check out this video, then tell us why you are voting Republican.





I'll go first...

I'm voting Republican because the government should be able to look into my personal business if they suspect I am up to something. After all, if I don't have anything to hide, why should it bother me?

[Bricker]

Cleverly placed in MPSIMS so no debate on any of your premises?

[samclem]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Cleverly placed in MPSIMS so no debate on any of your premises?

Heck. Mods move threads all the time. Fire away.

[SkipMagic]

Check out this video...

Nah. Belongs in GD.

[Weirddave]

Heck, I'll give it a shot: I'm voting Republican because that load of bullshit is what passes for a reasoned discussion of the issues amongst Democrats.


Gee, this is easy!

[Plan B]

Stupid boring video. "Separate but equal," wow, that really had us rolling on the floor laughing.

Maybe I'll vote Republican because of all the obnoxious tactics of the Dems...like messing with this message board by sneaking this thread into the wrong forum, or a video just dedicated to dumb, sarcastic, inaccuracies.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Man, you conservatives are bitter these days. Things not looking so rosy for the GOP lately?

[Baldwin]

That video really makes me appreciate Stephen Colbert. Some folks don't know how to do satire.

[Bricker]

Don't know yet how I am voting this time...but if I had to decide based on that idiotic video, I'd vote Republican based on the absurdity of Democratic analytical efforts.

Does the OP wish to defend it, or any part of it?

[elucidator]

This is obviously a spam scam, a bogus video produced so that they can later say "Hey, you guys do it too!" I base my conclusion on empirical evidence: the video assays out to a hilarity level of 50-60 micropryors. A random page of the Salt Lake City phone book will be about 40. Hence, we can conclude that either a)there was previously, at some point, humor in this video but it was carefull elided or b)it was produced by a Republican.

By comparison, there is a video available over at Eschaton that was produced by genuine leftie snark troopers. I dasn't link to it, its under the heading "Funny" and is very very not safe for work, or the kids, or your mom. Your SO? Your call.

Ah, what the hell, haven't been busted for a while, my credit should be good...

http://www.eschatonblog.com/

[newcrasher]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Don't know yet how I am voting this time...but if I had to decide based on that idiotic video, I'd vote Republican based on the absurdity of Democratic analytical efforts.

Does the OP wish to defend it, or any part of it?

I'll defend it.

It's all TRUE!

[HMS Irruncible]

I'm voting Republican because after they way they've acted against my interests as an average American for the past 2 terms, there's just no way they'd try that shit again.

[Frostillicus]

I'm voting Republican because John McCain is clearly the person to bring about change in this country. I mean, when was the last time we had an old white man as president?

[Crawlspace]

Originally Posted by newcrasher

I'll defend it.

It's all TRUE!

Yeah. And so are the TRUTH commercials and I've never wanted to smoke more than when I saw the first TRUTH commercial.

*speaking as a non smoker, aside from being drunk but, you know, come on.

[newcrasher]

Originally Posted by Crawlspace

Yeah. And so are the TRUTH commercials and I've never wanted to smoke more than when I saw the first TRUTH commercial.

*speaking as a non smoker, aside from being drunk but, you know, come on.

DUCK!

whhhooooooooshhh.....

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by elucidator

This is obviously a spam scam, a bogus video produced so that they can later say "Hey, you guys do it too!" I base my conclusion on empirical evidence: the video assays out to a hilarity level of 50-60 micropryors. A random page of the Salt Lake City phone book will be about 40. Hence, we can conclude that either a)there was previously, at some point, humor in this video but it was carefull elided or b)it was produced by a Republican.

By comparison, there is a video available over at Eschaton that was produced by genuine leftie snark troopers. I dasn't link to it, its under the heading "Funny" and is very very not safe for work, or the kids, or your mom. Your SO? Your call.

Ah, what the hell, haven't been busted for a while, my credit should be good...

http://www.eschatonblog.com/

Okay that was funny in a very overt disgusting way. The OPs video was more subtle. Admittedly I never thought the C word was funny until now.

[El_Kabong]

I'm voting Republican because the during the past eight years they've done a heckuva job.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Weirddave

Heck, I'll give it a shot: I'm voting Republican because that load of bullshit is what passes for a reasoned discussion of the issues amongst Democrats.


Gee, this is easy!

Of course you realize the generalization in your post is as unreasonable as anything in the video right? Now that's funny.

I'm a fan of reasoned debate and I think we desperately need honest discussion over issues in the political arena. Answering generalizations with one of your own ain't that.

It starts with respecting the other persons right to have a very different view and showing some courtesy for their sincerity. It continues with the idea that good communication means real listening and a sincere desire to understand someone else's position, rather than trying to score some personal victory through argument. It is built upon seeing our own bias as clearly as we see others' and being willing to admit it and set it aside.

I'm not implying that you don't already do these things. Maybe you do, but responding to what you see as stupid generalizations with one of your own doesn't indicate that to me. {unless you were joking as I've assumed the video is}

[Weirddave]

Originally Posted by cosmosdan

Of course you realize the generalization in your post is as unreasonable as anything in the video right? Now that's funny.

I'm a fan of reasoned debate and I think we desperately need honest discussion over issues in the political arena. Answering generalizations with one of your own ain't that.

It starts with respecting the other persons right to have a very different view and showing some courtesy for their sincerity. It continues with the idea that good communication means real listening and a sincere desire to understand someone else's position, rather than trying to score some personal victory through argument. It is built upon seeing our own bias as clearly as we see others' and being willing to admit it and set it aside.

I'm not implying that you don't already do these things. Maybe you do, but responding to what you see as stupid generalizations with one of your own doesn't indicate that to me. {unless you were joking as I've assumed the video is}

Man, this has to be the MOAW-mother of all whooshes.

[Siam Sam]

I applaud the OP even though I'm voting Obama. I've had enough of over-the-top Republican bashing. That sort of thing makes me move away from the Democrats. In general, I like Republican people better but Democrat policies better (although I like Obama). Democrat people themselves are a pushy lot, and I often have to hold my nose when I'm around them and they begin "discussing" politics. My Democrat friends all accuse me of being a Republican when I disagree with them and act as if that's an insult, whereas my Republican friends are always cool about it when I disagree with them.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I applaud the OP even though I'm voting Obama. I've had enough of over-the-top Republican bashing.

But...wait...the OP is continuing the over-the-top Republican bashing...but if you're applauding...

Oh dear, I think my head just exploded.

[elucidator]

Wouldn't "over the top" require some element of exaggeration, rather than a tedious recitation of the bleeding obvious?

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

But...wait...the OP is continuing the over-the-top Republican bashing...but if you're applauding...

Oh dear, I think my head just exploded.

Well, as often happens for me with YouTube videos, it's going to take an hour to load, so I didn't realize the OP was being facetious.

But my comments on Republican bashers stand. The nicer people I know are Republicans.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

But my comments on Republican bashers stand. The nicer people I know are Republicans.

They may be nice people, but that really has no bearing on their political values, and it's the political values under attack.

[Cisco]

Holy shit, a really good friend of mine is in that video. He just emailed me to say it was on Keith Olbermann. The funny thing? He's a Republican!

[Tbrown]

I'm voting Democrat because the real issues don't matter, who needs actual facts, I want things done purely based on "feel good" emotions, I don't want anything to actually get done, and I want to support socialism whether I realize it or not.

Yay for political polarization. Little does anyone realize that, regardless of party, 90% of politicians are superficial, egotistical idiots anyways. It doesn't matter what the party is, most politicians these days don't tend to stick to the principles and morals of their respective parties. When are we going to look past the ridiculousness of "the political party" and start judging people by their character. There are plenty of Republicans (Bush for example) and Democrats (Bill Clinton for example) that have flown in the face of their respective parties principles. Each side likes to use such individuals as evidence to discredit anyone from the same party. It is just absolutely preposterous.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

They may be nice people, but that really has no bearing on their political values, and it's the political values under attack.

Glad to know it's never personal and always only on the issues.

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Don't know yet how I am voting this time...but if I had to decide based on that idiotic video, I'd vote Republican based on the absurdity of Democratic analytical efforts.

Does the OP wish to defend it, or any part of it?

I'm mildly surprised. I always had you pegged for an automatic GOP vote. Have you voted for Dem presidents in the past?

[newcrasher]

For the record:

I am flattered that some folks think it was clever or shifty of me to post this in MPSIMS intead of GD. But really, I thought the video was just silly and, well, pointless and mundane. I thought folks could make up their own silly one liners and move on.

If you can tease a Great Debate out of it, more power to you.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

They may be nice people, but that really has no bearing on their political values, and it's the political values under attack.

Indirectly it does. Being nice or not nice is a reflection of the persons values. I think the point Sam is making is that any off hand rather sarcastic dismissal of another persons opinions is dam rude. I'm a moderate Democrat myself and I have several great friends who are republican. Bush and his corrupt admin has given republicans country wide a black eye but that's not a reflection of the real conservative values of the average hard working republican. Democrats may feel they have a good reason to act morally superior for now but comparing ourselves to possibly the worst president in history and saying, "We're better" isn't much to bragg about. Democratic leaders IMO have been great political cowards who have counted on the failure of this admin to make them look good. Obama has shown courage and intelligence. Perhaps he can motivate others to do the same. It's about dam time.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by newcrasher

For the record:

I am flattered that some folks think it was clever or shifty of me to post this in MPSIMS intead of GD. But really, I thought the video was just silly and, well, pointless and mundane. I thought folks could make up their own silly one liners and move on.

If you can tease a Great Debate out of it, more power to you.

When I first saw it I thought it was a little funny but mainly just shit stirring and unproductive.

[sturmhauke]

I'm voting Republican because it's time to add Iran to our Greater Middle Eastern Co-Prosperity Sphere.

[Shodan]

Cripes, why didn't they just put someone in the video to say "I'm voting Republican because I don't want a nigger in the White House" and leave it at that?

Maybe they did; I didn't watch the whole thing.

Regards,
Shodan

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by Tbrown

I'm voting Democrat because the real issues don't matter, who needs actual facts, I want things done purely based on "feel good" emotions, I don't want anything to actually get done...

You mean voting Republican, don't you? You know, you want to feel good that terrorism is being defeated (in fact it's increased worldwide), that the free market is taking care of our economic interests (just look at wages and economy), that you've elected conservative politicians who will legislate your extremist desires on things like abortion (much hot air, no action). No doubt about it, the Republicans are the feel-good guys... how they keep pulling it off without delivering anything to their voters is a mystery to me. I guess it's because you "feel good" about electing morons like W. who drive like me into a froth, though it's debatable whether that actually counts as getting anything done.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Cripes, why didn't they just put someone in the video to say "I'm voting Republican because I don't want a nigger in the White House" and leave it at that?

Don't worry, Republicans themselves are taking care of that.

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Cripes, why didn't they just put someone in the video to say "I'm voting Republican because I don't want a nigger in the White House" and leave it at that?

There's no satisfaction in satire when all you can really do is quote the target verbatim. They speak for themselves.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

Glad to know it's never personal and always only on the issues.

I'm not saying it never is. But none of the admittedly biased lines in the video were "I'm voting Republican because I'm a traitor" or "I'm voting Republican because I hate black people." It focused on current Republican beliefs (and yes, displayed them in the worst light possible, although I reserve the right to think that at least some of them were spot on).

Besides, quite frankly, it is a bit of a strawman to go on about "But they're nice people!" It's possible to be friendly and civil while still holding loony or destructive beliefs.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Don't worry, Republicans themselves are taking care of that.

I didn't realize that every depiction of a politician as an ape was racist. Heaven forbid that we should have anything as offensive as mocking a candidate for the Presidency by comparing him with animals.

Regards,
Shodan

[Bosstone]

You do realize there's a difference between a caricature of a person's natural features, and outright using an image of a monkey, Shodan? Bush got compared to a chimp because it's not a huge stretch to change his features into something chimp-like. Obama got compared to a monkey...why? It's not his features, otherwise they would have done digital manipulation and not just slapped a Curious George image on the T-shirt.

[Labrador Deceiver]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

You do realize there's a difference between a caricature of a person's natural features, and outright using an image of a monkey, Shodan? Bush got compared to a chimp because it's not a huge stretch to change his features into something chimp-like. Obama got compared to a monkey...why? It's not his features, otherwise they would have done digital manipulation and not just slapped a Curious George image on the T-shirt.

You have to be kidding. It isn't a huge stretch to change any human being's features into something chimp like.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Shodan

I didn't realize that every depiction of a politician as an ape was racist.

I'm surprised you weren't aware that comparing people of African descent with apes has a long and dreadful history in Western culture. This article (PDF) from the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology covers some of it, from Richard Owen's (a Darwin contemporary) reference to negroes as "the lowest race of Man" to Hitler's reference to negroes as "half-apes". Comparing a white man to a monkey isn't racist because whites have not been compared to monkeys by white supremacists since the 1600s.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver

You have to be kidding. It isn't a huge stretch to change any human being's features into something chimp like.

Then why didn't they do that to Obama? Even the laziest Dems were able to find photos of chimps that matched Bush's expressions, rather than play with Photoshop. Slapping a picture of any random monkey on a shirt and saying that's Obama, with no attempt to tie it to how the guy looks, doesn't fly. Either it's racist or it's pathetically lazy. Come on! Put some effort into your ridicule!

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

I'm not saying it never is. But none of the admittedly biased lines in the video were "I'm voting Republican because I'm a traitor" or "I'm voting Republican because I hate black people." It focused on current Republican beliefs (and yes, displayed them in the worst light possible, although I reserve the right to think that at least some of them were spot on).

Besides, quite frankly, it is a bit of a strawman to go on about "But they're nice people!" It's possible to be friendly and civil while still holding loony or destructive beliefs.

Maybe this is the wrong thread, but just for the sake of debate.

Conservatives believe liberals hold destructive and loony beliefs as well. Don't we all start from a place where we assume our personal outlook is correct? It's a real challenge to find a way to communicate about things we strongly disagree over and find some common ground or a reasonable compromise, but realistically, what's the alternative. We have to try and remember that's it's not just about our party and it's victory.

I saw George Will on The Colbert Report and he gave a brief description of the difference between conservatives and liberals.
The points of the argument are Freedom and Equality. Worthy subjects that are not easy to nail down. Conservatives prize freedom and accept inequality of outcome. Liberals prize equality and are willing to sacrifice and circumscribe freedom for the sake of equality.

Philosophically speaking I find that to be an interesting and worthwhile discussion to work on rather than loony or destructive.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Liberal

I'm surprised you weren't aware that comparing people of African descent with apes has a long and dreadful history in Western culture. This article (PDF) from the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology covers some of it, from Richard Owen's (a Darwin contemporary) reference to negroes as "the lowest race of Man" to Hitler's reference to negroes as "half-apes". Comparing a white man to a monkey isn't racist because whites have not been compared to monkeys by white supremacists since the 1600s.

Oh, I'm fully aware that comparing a person to an ape is insulting. I was wondering why it is beyond the pale to do it to Obama but not to Bush, and why the outrage is so selective. For what values of X is the statement "X is a chimp!" legitimate?

You seem to be OK with it for Bush, since I don't remember you making any objections over the last few years (I might be wrong here, in which case feel free to point out where you did). I will assume that this is not simply a case of your objecting to your own ox being gored.

So what we seem to be finding is the belief that, because of his race, Obama should be exempt from certain sorts of satire. Is that what you are saying?

You have been known to refer to certain female politicians as whores and cunts and so forth, so it doesn't seem like the tone of the political debate, nor political correctness, are the concerns. So perhaps it is just blacks who need to have the heat in the kitchen turned down a few degrees. Is that because blacks as a rule are less capable of dealing with (admittedly unfair) criticisms of this sort?

If it is merely another instance of "Bush really is a chimp but Obama is above criticism" etc., etc., fine - we can leave it at that. I was just wondering if this was a principled position, or merely expediency.

Regards,
Shodan

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by cosmosdan

Conservatives prize freedom and accept inequality of outcome. Liberals prize equality and are willing to sacrifice and circumscribe freedom for the sake of equality.

Philosophically speaking I find that to be an interesting and worthwhile discussion to work on rather than loony or destructive.

You're right. But that's not what the problem is. It's not a case of conservative values versus liberal values; as I said, many conservatives are supporting Obama, and it's been shown that Bush is not really a conservative at all. The problem is that the last 8 years have shown that the policies of the current Republican party are destructive and harmful to America. This isn't a case of believing, say, smaller government is harmful in an abstract sense, it's a case of seeing what the current administration has valued and how it has hurt the nation, and that McCain intends to continue the policies of the last 8 years. Voting Republican isn't voting for conservatism right now, it's voting for policies that have been demonstrated to be harmful.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

Then why didn't they do that to Obama? Even the laziest Dems were able to find photos of chimps that matched Bush's expressions, rather than play with Photoshop. Slapping a picture of any random monkey on a shirt and saying that's Obama, with no attempt to tie it to how the guy looks, doesn't fly. Either it's racist or it's pathetically lazy. Come on! Put some effort into your ridicule!

Listening to the audio the bar owner selling the shirts claimed the cartoon character he knew because of his grandkids, looked like Obama. Big Ears, a big smile, and a similar hairline. Is he completely wrong?

I find it near impossible to believe an older man from the south wasn't aware of the racist connotations of the comparison so I'm defending that stupidity. IMO hateful prejudice directed at another isn't all that different no matter what form of expression it takes. Are the Ts a lot worse than the insulting video aimed at republicans.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Oh, I'm fully aware that comparing a person to an ape is insulting. I was wondering why it is beyond the pale to do it to Obama but not to Bush, and why the outrage is so selective. For what values of X is the statement "X is a chimp!" legitimate?

You seem to be OK with it for Bush, since I don't remember you making any objections over the last few years (I might be wrong here, in which case feel free to point out where you did). I will assume that this is not simply a case of your objecting to your own ox being gored.

So what we seem to be finding is the belief that, because of his race, Obama should be exempt from certain sorts of satire. Is that what you are saying?

You have been known to refer to certain female politicians as whores and cunts and so forth, so it doesn't seem like the tone of the political debate, nor political correctness, are the concerns. So perhaps it is just blacks who need to have the heat in the kitchen turned down a few degrees. Is that because blacks as a rule are less capable of dealing with (admittedly unfair) criticisms of this sort?

If it is merely another instance of "Bush really is a chimp but Obama is above criticism" etc., etc., fine - we can leave it at that. I was just wondering if this was a principled position, or merely expediency.

Regards,
Shodan

Oh comon. You can't see the difference? The Bush pictures are a slam against his personal intelligence and competency. The history of comparing black men to apes is an attack on an entire race based on the color of their skin. Both are insults but please don't pretend they're the same insult.

Is there a difference between "That specific republican is a buffoon," and "All republicans are buffoons"

[Labrador Deceiver]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

Then why didn't they do that to Obama? Even the laziest Dems were able to find photos of chimps that matched Bush's expressions, rather than play with Photoshop. Slapping a picture of any random monkey on a shirt and saying that's Obama, with no attempt to tie it to how the guy looks, doesn't fly. Either it's racist or it's pathetically lazy. Come on! Put some effort into your ridicule

Right. It's not racist if you use photoshop.

Seriously, this is quite possibly the most desperate rationalization I've heard.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by cosmosdan

Listening to the audio the bar owner selling the shirts claimed the cartoon character he knew because of his grandkids, looked like Obama. Big Ears, a big smile, and a similar hairline. Is he completely wrong?

I don't know. We'd have to get a shot of Obama eating a banana to be sure.

I can accept there wasn't any overt malice in the choice of graphic. But it's really kind of silly to not know better than to compare a black man to a monkey. Like I said in one of the Pit threads, make Obama look like a donkey or something. It plays off the Democrat image, he looks more like one than he looks like a monkey, and you can get some mileage out of the 'ass' thing. Comparing him to a monkey is either racist, equivocating (cf. Shodan's tu quoque), or thoughtless. And a thoughtless joke ain't no joke at all.

[Bricker]

Originally Posted by cosmosdan

I'm a fan of reasoned debate and I think we desperately need honest discussion over issues in the political arena.

And this is precisely why I'm undecided.

On almost every policy issue of importance, my views better match those likely to be championed by Senator McCain.

Senator Obama, however, has redefined the electoral landscape with his focus on reasoned debate, and his careful examination of issues. In a sense, then, he's brought a new issue to the table: how should we conduct elections?

That's a big issue, and I'm entirely on Obama's side for it. I feel sometimes like I want to be a single-issue voter, with THAT as the issue.

But then I get discouraged, because I see threads like this, and I realize that the one message of Senator Obama's that I, a conservative Republican, most connect with is one that's apparently lost on many of his other supporters.

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

I'm mildly surprised. I always had you pegged for an automatic GOP vote. Have you voted for Dem presidents in the past?

No. This is the first time I've so much as seriously considered it (as an adult).