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  #1  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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What is life like in a military prison?

Does anyone know anything about military prisons? A friend of a friend, who is an Air Force captain, is about to begin serving 8 months in either the Naval Consolidated Brig, Miramar (California) or the Naval Consolidated Brig, Charleston (S.C.). We're wondering what his life will be like in there, especially as an officer. Anyone have any insight on this?
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:44 PM
chappachula chappachula is offline
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I just read this fascinating thread by somebody who was in a military brig:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2920010


It's a kind of weird site, but has a message board-- with some silly forums and some high-quality forums that are very similar to the Dope.
If the link doesn't work for you(registration required, but it's free) go to
Somethingawful forums--->Discussion---> Ask/Tell forum. The linked thread is entitled "gettin' locked up". Five pages of very detailed info.
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:58 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chappachula
I just read this fascinating thread by somebody who was in a military brig:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2920010


It's a kind of weird site, but has a message board-- with some silly forums and some high-quality forums that are very similar to the Dope.
If the link doesn't work for you(registration required, but it's free) go to
Somethingawful forums--->Discussion---> Ask/Tell forum. The linked thread is entitled "gettin' locked up". Five pages of very detailed info.
Thank you! That guy's stories are very informative (and entertaining!)
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  #4  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:17 PM
SkeptiJess SkeptiJess is offline
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I've never been in even a base brig, let alone one of the big ones, but I also found the linked thread to be both interesting and informative.

Here's a tacky question, though, just because I'm nosy -- do you mind telling what your frind is going down for? Also, is there a reason why an Air Force guy is going to a Naval facility?
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:00 PM
clairobscur clairobscur is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chappachula
I just read this fascinating thread by somebody who was in a military brig:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2920010
.

The posts by this HidingfromGoro about jail are just frightening. Is he just making stuff up, or what?
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:53 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeptiJess
Here's a tacky question, though, just because I'm nosy -- do you mind telling what your frind is going down for? Also, is there a reason why an Air Force guy is going to a Naval facility?
Yeah I can understand the curiosity... I'm not exactly sure of the formal name of the charges but I think it was drunk and disorderly and trespassing. He got drunk one night, and was walking back to his friend's house (or so he thought) and went into the wrong house. He went through a court marshall proceeding and we thought he was going to get a dishonorable discharge (after 15 years in the military) but luckily he will be able to stay in, and serve 8 months.

I don't know why he'll be sent to a Naval facility, although from their web site it shows that they house people from all branches of the military there.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Holy Jesus, for all of the Dope's problems, I am sure glad that we don't change "fuck" to "gently caress" and "shit" to "poo poo."
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:15 AM
Gregor Samsa Gregor Samsa is offline
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There's an interesting story here on life in Canadian military prison.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Hypnagogic Jerk Hypnagogic Jerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers
Holy Jesus, for all of the Dope's problems, I am sure glad that we don't change "fuck" to "gently caress" and "shit" to "poo poo."
It doesn't do that if you register. (I guess it's meant as an incentive to register.)
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:05 AM
Nunavut Boy Nunavut Boy is offline
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I've never even been close to being in one, but my tough as nails drill instructor in basic once told me (after basic and I'd got to know him) that he'd been in for a month once in the mid 80s for punching an officer when he was drunk. He told me it was like basic but 10x worse and he'd pretty much rather die than go back. (Canadian military, BTW)
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  #11  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:00 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Some points:
  • Prisoners serving a sentence in a military prison are not officers. They are reduced to the lowest Enlisted pay grade at least for the duration of their incarceration.
  • Time in the prison is considered "bad time" and does not credit as time served towards the completion of an enlistment or other obligated service.
  • A military court is called a court-martial. The plural, if anyone's interested, is courts-martial.
  • A Naval brig can accommodate a prisoner from any of the Uniformed Services. The sentence is usually (IIRC) worded to the effect that the prisoner will be incarcerated in a Military Confinement Facility.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:03 AM
SkeptiJess SkeptiJess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
Yeah I can understand the curiosity... I'm not exactly sure of the formal name of the charges but I think it was drunk and disorderly and trespassing. He got drunk one night, and was walking back to his friend's house (or so he thought) and went into the wrong house. He went through a court marshall proceeding and we thought he was going to get a dishonorable discharge (after 15 years in the military) but luckily he will be able to stay in, and serve 8 months.

I don't know why he'll be sent to a Naval facility, although from their web site it shows that they house people from all branches of the military there.
He's going to be able to return to active duty after doing 8 months in a big brig? I wouldn't have thought that would be possible. Monty, is that type of deal common? I assume his 'bad time' won't count towards retirement, either? Will he be returned to his previous rank after he's served his time? Won't that require him to be commissioned again? And what are the odds his career will recover from such a scar? Will he ever get another promotion?

Yikes! Such a mess for such a foolish mistake. I hope your friend doesn't have too bad a time, doing his time, nyctea scandiaca. Poor guy.

Last edited by SkeptiJess; 08-22-2008 at 09:05 AM..
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:18 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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8 months (plus losing your career) for walking into the wrong house while drunk? That seems...excessive. Surely it's just a misdemeanor on the outside, right? Are you sure that's the whole story?
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:47 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG
8 months (plus losing your career) for walking into the wrong house while drunk? That seems...excessive. Surely it's just a misdemeanor on the outside, right? Are you sure that's the whole story?
That's what I was thinking. Back in the day, there would have been laughs all around, and one very humiliated officer standing at parade rest in front of his CO taking a verbal beatdown for being stupid...MAYBE an Article 15...but that would be it.

Serving a month in the brig and losing a rank isn't unheard of, but I've never heard of someone serving 8 months and staying in. I knew guys that got 4 months and were given a bad conduct discharge for failing two piss tests.
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:56 AM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil
Serving a month in the brig and losing a rank isn't unheard of, but I've never heard of someone serving 8 months and staying in. I knew guys that got 4 months and were given a bad conduct discharge for failing two piss tests.
When I was a Pensacola (Corey Field, not the big NAS) I saw a guy in a chief's uniform (E-7), then two days later in a seaman's uniform (E-1). I didn't know him so there was no way I was going to ask, but I've always wondered what you can do to vex the Navy so much that you get busted 6 grades, yet don't get kicked out entirely.

Perhaps he was on the cusp of retiring and they didn't want to take all his benefits away.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:14 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog
When I was a Pensacola (Corey Field, not the big NAS) I saw a guy in a chief's uniform (E-7), then two days later in a seaman's uniform (E-1). I didn't know him so there was no way I was going to ask, but I've always wondered what you can do to vex the Navy so much that you get busted 6 grades, yet don't get kicked out entirely.

Perhaps he was on the cusp of retiring and they didn't want to take all his benefits away.
Man that would suck. It takes close to 20 years to get to E-7, and to lose all that rank just before retirement...ouch. He must have really done something to get busted six grades yet still stay in the Navy.
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:59 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers
Holy Jesus, for all of the Dope's problems, I am sure glad that we don't change "fuck" to "gently caress" and "shit" to "poo poo."
I noticed that - at first I thought the writer was just using slang, but then I realized it was automatic. I thought it was pretty funny, and a bit annoying too.
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:07 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG
8 months (plus losing your career) for walking into the wrong house while drunk? That seems...excessive. Surely it's just a misdemeanor on the outside, right? Are you sure that's the whole story?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil
That's what I was thinking. Back in the day, there would have been laughs all around, and one very humiliated officer standing at parade rest in front of his CO taking a verbal beatdown for being stupid...MAYBE an Article 15...but that would be it.

Serving a month in the brig and losing a rank isn't unheard of, but I've never heard of someone serving 8 months and staying in. I knew guys that got 4 months and were given a bad conduct discharge for failing two piss tests.
Yes there was a bit more to it. I'm guilty of over-simplifying... So this guy was so drunk that he apparently doesn't remember any of the incident. When he walked into the wrong house (where a party was occurring, I believe - this was a college town), he went upstairs and tried to get into bed with a girl who was asleep, and said something sexually suggestive to her (not sure what). Then the girl's boyfriend chased him off, and he ended up at another house (presumably he thought that was his friend's correct house) and started banging on the door and ended up passed out on the porch when the cops arrived.

That's all I know. The civilian police did not pursue the charges, I think because they didn't have a strong case or something. But the military enthusiastically pursued the charges.

We thought for sure that he would be kicked out of the military, but surprisingly not. We don't know yet whether he will be demoted. He is currently a captain with 15 years of service.

Another bit of info that we have is that they went easy on him because of his prior "exemplary service" and he has never ever been in trouble before and had a perfect record, top-notch evaluations throughout his entire career. This seems like a totally bizarre freak incident (although it certainly must have been very alarming scary for the girl who he tried to get into bed with - I am not downplaying the severity of his crime).

Last edited by Green Cymbeline; 08-22-2008 at 02:08 PM..
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:23 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeptiJess
He's going to be able to return to active duty after doing 8 months in a big brig? I wouldn't have thought that would be possible. Monty, is that type of deal common?
I've no idea how common it is; however, I have seen a case where an individual served a year's worth of "bad time" and was retained in service until the end of his enlistment. The key thing is the sentence of the court-martial. If the court does not award (that's the military's term for sentencing; lovely euphemism, isn't it?) a punitive discharge, the member must serve out the remaining "good time" on his enlistment or, in the case of officers, agreed/obligated service.

Quote:
I assume his 'bad time' won't count towards retirement, either?
That's right. "Bad time" does not count towards pay, retirement, or even time in rate/rank. There's an interesting thing that happens when the member is finished with his "bad time": a number of important dates in career management are adjusted for him. The date of rate/rank, date entered active duty, basice pay entry date, etc. are adjusted. The disconnect is that for personnel administration, the adjustment is day-for-day (31 day months are counted as 31 days, 28 day months as 28, 29 day months as 29, etc.) but for pay administration all months are treated as 30 days, even February. The pay manual has a nifty, but still confusing, lengthy conversion chart for determining the adjusted dates for both personnel and pay administration.

Quote:
Will he be returned to his previous rank after he's served his time?
It depends on what the court-martial awarded the member. Some sentences include reduction in rate/rank and sometimes those are even suspended. If the member is not sentenced to reduction or if the reduction is suspended, the member is automatically restored to his previous rank/rate.

Quote:
Won't that require him to be commissioned again?
Nope. The commission remains in effect unless the officer has been awarded separation from service.

Quote:
And what are the odds his career will recover from such a scar?
If the offense is one of "moral turpitude," such as rape, none. Otherwise, it depends on a number of factors.

Quote:
Will he ever get another promotion?
It's been known to happen that a member has resurrected his career after serving time.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Caffeine.addict Caffeine.addict is online now
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Is it common for someone to be in the Air Force for 15 years and only be a Captain? I have a friend who has been in the Army for 12 and he is a Major. I know he was a Captain when he was in his 6th year.
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Old 08-22-2008, 04:20 PM
Cardinal Cardinal is offline
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Exactly what I was thinking. My brother was 0-3 in his fifth year active in the US Army. What happened to that idea that at some point either you're promoted again or eased out of the service?
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:32 PM
SkeptiJess SkeptiJess is offline
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He must have been an enlisted man to start with. My own husband was commisioned after 12 years enlisted service (Navy not Air Force). I'd be surprised if the Air Force doesn't have some sort of similar enlisted-to-officer program.

Actually, this makes his fall from grace even more depressing, IMO. He wouldn't (in the Navy, anyway) get the chance at a commission unless his enlisted service had been exemplary.

Thanks, Monty, I knew you'd have the gouge.
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  #23  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:52 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine.addict
Is it common for someone to be in the Air Force for 15 years and only be a Captain? I have a friend who has been in the Army for 12 and he is a Major. I know he was a Captain when he was in his 6th year.
Yes, he was prior enlisted, and became an officer.

Last edited by Green Cymbeline; 08-22-2008 at 04:53 PM..
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:00 PM
thouk thouk is offline
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A Masterchief.

Hello,
I am in the Navy and I read in Navy Times of a Master Chief that was a Corpsmam, actually a Corpswoman. She was caught selling drugs. She was busted from E-9 to E-1. She was sent to Lenvonworth and lost her retirement. She had so many charges that they busted her down one rank at a time till she hit E-1. Goes to show you that doing the right thing makes life easy. I am at 22 years and about to retire.
Somehow I don't think your friend is going to make it to retirement let alone if he gets out and stays still have a good career. It would be hard for them to justify a clearance, which I believe most officers have to have to do their duties. Tony
P.s. Foie, You can make E-9 in I think as little as 12 years in the Navy. There was a E-6 that made it in 3 years.
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:33 PM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers
Holy Jesus, for all of the Dope's problems, I am sure glad that we don't change "fuck" to "gently caress" and "shit" to "poo poo."
I can't speak for the modern military, but when I did my service in the late 80's, there was no above-the-wire cursing, only euphemisms. The euphemisms got a serious workout since apparently the human need for vulgar intensifiers is so ingrained. Although it sounds like juvenile gibberish to the uninitiated, eventually we learned to cower at fusillades like "Doggone it, privates, if I find out who left that doo-doo in the toilet, I'm going to kick their 4th point of contact!"

In-group jargon can be hard to shake, so I suspect that's what we're hearing here (although -- "poo poo"? Please tell me someone hasn't woken up and realized the military now sounds like a preschool class).
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  #26  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:41 PM
Tripler Tripler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine.addict
Is it common for someone to be in the Air Force for 15 years and only be a Captain? I have a friend who has been in the Army for 12 and he is a Major. I know he was a Captain when he was in his 6th year.
The dude in question is most likely prior-enlisted (i.e. was an Airman or NCO previously, and went through a commissioning program later). It's not unknown for 15-year Captains to exist, but they'd have been passed over for promotion to Major twice before, and would most likely be on their way out. G'head, ask me how I know.

Back in '06, we had a 22-year, AF MSgt (E-7) who was caught AWOL in the Middle East, as well as taking little vacations/bribes/kickbacks for manipulating contracts. He was a warranted Contracting Officer, and he basically carressingly loved up his career. We heard he was quickly pulled, court-martialed, and given 3 months and a reduction to E-1. The guy seriously caressingly loved up some of our construction and material contracts--I frequently wondered out loud how an carbon copy design of a pre-built facility from the same company would waver $250k on a contract price. Digging through my paperwork, I could WAG he burned us all for at least $1.25M, but that's heresay on my part, and I digress. . .

I'm surprised though, that a drunken Captain of 15 years got 8 months for something fairly stupid, whereas this Master Sergeant only got 3 for intentionally loving up contracts.

Then again, it reminds me of the time in Bagram, where I saw a Captain, handcuffed in his flight suit, being lead away from the flightline by an A1C carrying a rifle and an ammo box.

Oh, and nyctea scandiaca: BAH! You beat me to the punch!!

Tripler
Oh, what fun times!
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  #27  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:34 PM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief
Although it sounds like juvenile gibberish to the uninitiated, eventually we learned to cower at fusillades like "Doggone it, privates, if I find out who left that doo-doo in the toilet, I'm going to kick their 4th point of contact!"

In-group jargon can be hard to shake, so I suspect that's what we're hearing here (although -- "poo poo"? Please tell me someone hasn't woken up and realized the military now sounds like a preschool class).
Fourth point of contact?" What the hell is that?*

*Of course, I was in when at the point where we were graduated released from basic, we were reminded to "Ask for the butter, not describe it."

Last edited by DesertDog; 08-22-2008 at 07:34 PM..
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  #28  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:58 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thouk
Hello,
I am in the Navy and I read in Navy Times of a Master Chief that was a Corpsmam, actually a Corpswoman. She was caught selling drugs. She was busted from E-9 to E-1. She was sent to Lenvonworth and lost her retirement. She had so many charges that they busted her down one rank at a time till she hit E-1. Goes to show you that doing the right thing makes life easy. I am at 22 years and about to retire.
Somehow I don't think your friend is going to make it to retirement let alone if he gets out and stays still have a good career. It would be hard for them to justify a clearance, which I believe most officers have to have to do their duties. Tony
P.s. Foie, You can make E-9 in I think as little as 12 years in the Navy. There was a E-6 that made it in 3 years.
You might want to fact check that load of garbage.
  • It's illegal to domino trials of one person. All pending charges must be dealt with at once.
  • There's no such term as Corpswoman in the United States Navy. Every member of the sole Enlisted Corps in the US Navy is a Corpsman. Additionally, only Petty Officers Third Class and above are Corpsman. A Nonrates is a Designated Striker if a Hospitalman.
  • Depending on the level of court-martial, one may be reduced from the highest rank directly to the lowest Enlisted rate/rank. The number of charges is irrelevant to that fact.
  • The name of the Military Confinment Facility you mention is correctly spelled Leavenworth. Its actual name is United States Disciplinary Barracks.
  • The USDB does not house female prisoners.
  • Loss of security clearance depends on the nature of the charges for which convicted. One may still "resurrect" their career after court-martial and serving one's sentence.
  • The minimum time in rate as E-8 to advance to E-9 is three years. One cannot advance from E-6 to E-9 in three years.

Go ahead. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a Personnelman First Class, United States Navy (Retired).

On top of that, I'm not the only one on this board with an inquisitive nature and the knowledge to do a simple web search.

Last edited by Monty; 08-22-2008 at 09:00 PM.. Reason: Misused one word and misspelled another.
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  #29  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:04 PM
user_hostile user_hostile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur
The posts by this HidingfromGoro about jail are just frightening. Is he just making stuff up, or what?
You mean the civilian side of the story? Nah, he's not kidding; I've known a female guard at Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, and another male guard at Soledad who told me stories that made you cringe about the fear and violence in prison. HidingfromGoro, is just telling it from his side, which I had long suspected, was much worse. IMHO, there's no disputing his description was by far the darkest set of postings I've ever read about prison life. Absolutely visceral.
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  #30  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:17 PM
SSG Schwartz SSG Schwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog
Fourth point of contact?" What the hell is that?*

*Of course, I was in when at the point where we were graduated released from basic, we were reminded to "Ask for the butter, not describe it."
The fourth point of contact is know to Army paratroopers as the buttocks. If you are interested, the first three are the balls of the feet, the calf, and the thigh. The fifth point of contact is the pull-up muscle (IOW the armpit area)

SSG Schwartz
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  #31  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:22 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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I have read the biography of General Chuck Yeager a lot lately. At one point when he was a more junior officer overseas, they had a wild party that damaged a lot of a bar. He and a few others paid for the damages that night. The Colonel got a call the next day and threatened court-martial proceedings and started to pursue them. A General back in the U.S. who oversaw the entire group, relieved him of his duties and ordered him back to the U.S. ASAP. That sounded bad but it turned out that procedure protected Yeager from court-martial. Like everything, it can be quite political and it may not take much to destroy a military career.
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  #32  
Old 08-23-2008, 10:04 AM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG
8 months (plus losing your career) for walking into the wrong house while drunk? That seems...excessive. Surely it's just a misdemeanor on the outside, right? Are you sure that's the whole story?

Yeah, gotta be more to it. I'm thinking "burglary" reduced to "walking in wrong house".
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  #33  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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The closest I ever got to being in a brig was when another clown and I had to go to the one on Adak to fix the heating system. While we were there, the Marines brought in this poor Coastie who looked like Gomer Pyle in Full Metal Jacket. In spite of us being there, they frog-marched him up to the 'redline', made him strip naked and forced him to lean WAY out and lean against the wall. That doesn't sound too bad, but try standing so far from the wall that your arms are hyperextended and supporting your body weight.

They then dumped his seabag out on the floor, shouting at him the entire time about what a complete SCUMSUCKING, BUTTFUCKING BUCKET OF SHIT FAGGOT he really was. The last we saw of him was the Marines chasing him and his armload of clothing into the cold showers.

I was a bit of a fuck-off in the Navy up until that point. It cured me. That was in 1970, and I retired in 1990 with five gold stripes on my sleeve (20 years good conduct).
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  #34  
Old 08-23-2008, 07:21 PM
clairobscur clairobscur is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_hostile
You mean the civilian side of the story? Nah, he's not kidding; I've known a female guard at Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, and another male guard at Soledad who told me stories that made you cringe about the fear and violence in prison. HidingfromGoro, is just telling it from his side, which I had long suspected, was much worse. IMHO, there's no disputing his description was by far the darkest set of postings I've ever read about prison life. Absolutely visceral.

Indeed I meant the civilian side. The military side was acceptable, apart from the idiotic thing about not masturbating.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2008, 06:45 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Location: The Tropics, not in US
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I was a military clerk, and in my unit there was one private who was in and out of there regularly due to drug usage (and I have to conducted the urine test for him...eek)

AFAIK, the moment you are court-martial, you will be brought to the provost (which is just next door to my company line, though it is walled off by a concrete fall which looks like WWII fortification); once you get in, you go back to the life of a recruit - head shaved, ranks stripped etc. Think of it as boot camp, but 100x worst.

From looking through some public bulletin [available in the army intranet], it seems that some of the MP were having a bit of fun with the inmates too; Not work-safe, so I just leave it here; Anyway, the bulletin is to point out that the MPs were punished for what they did, so it is something really way above the top.

According to the private (mentioned in first paragraph), there is solitary confinement, reserved for the worst of the worst.

How much time you spend inside there is dependent on what you did. A two-week stay won't amount to much trauma - that private went AWOL once and got in there for two weeks. One guy here stole a rifle out while supposed to be on guard duty, took it to a major shopping mail, and have plans to kill his ex-girlfriend. I do not wish to speculate what will happen to him inside there.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 08-24-2008 at 06:49 AM..
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2008, 09:53 AM
aerodave aerodave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief
I can't speak for the modern military, but when I did my service in the late 80's, there was no above-the-wire cursing, only euphemisms. The euphemisms got a serious workout since apparently the human need for vulgar intensifiers is so ingrained. Although it sounds like juvenile gibberish to the uninitiated, eventually we learned to cower at fusillades like "Doggone it, privates, if I find out who left that doo-doo in the toilet, I'm going to kick their 4th point of contact!"

In-group jargon can be hard to shake, so I suspect that's what we're hearing here (although -- "poo poo"? Please tell me someone hasn't woken up and realized the military now sounds like a preschool class).
The euphemisms in the SA thread you're referring to weren't written that way by the poster. It was explained earlier in this thread that the SA message board automatically changes "fuck" to "gently caress", among other changes, when displaying the thread contents to unregistered guests. HidingfromGoro actually wrote "shit", but the board shows you "poo poo" unless you've given the SA folks $10.
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2008, 03:34 PM
zev_steinhardt zev_steinhardt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty
Some points:
[list][*]Prisoners serving a sentence in a military prison are not officers. They are reduced to the lowest Enlisted pay grade at least for the duration of their incarceration.
Monty,

I was under the impression that officers cannot be reduced in rank as a result of a court-martial. Is that not correct?

Zev Steinhardt
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2008, 04:22 PM
Tripler Tripler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zev_steinhardt
Monty,

I was under the impression that officers cannot be reduced in rank as a result of a court-martial. Is that not correct?

Zev Steinhardt
I'll second this impression, even though I may have a cite to back it up. Let me dig . . .

Tripler
Capt, (prior Section Commander), USAF
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 17,858
The Manual for Courts-Martial does have the following:
Quote:
(2) Based on rank of accused.
(A) Commissioned or warrant officers, cadets,
and midshipmen.
(i) A commissioned or warrant officer or a
cadet, or midshipman may not be reduced in grade
by any court-martial. However, in time of war or
national emergency the Secretary concerned, or such
Under Secretary or Assistant Secretary as may be
designated by the Secretary concerned, may commute
a sentence of dismissal to reduction to any
enlisted grade.
(ii) Only a general court-martial may sentence
a commissioned or warrant officer or a cadet,
or midshipman to confinement.
(iii) A commissioned or warrant officer or a
cadet or midshipman may not be sentenced to hard
labor without confinement.
(iv) Only a general court-martial, upon conviction
of any offense in violation of the Code, may
sentence a commissioned or warrant officer or a
cadet or midshipman to be separated from the service
with a punitive separation. In the case of comm
i s s i o n e d o f f i c e r s , c a d e t s , m i d s h i p m e n , a n d
commissioned warrant officers, the separation shall
be by dismissal. In the case of all other warrant
o f f i c e r s , t h e s e p a r a t i o n s h a l l b y d i s h o n o r a b l e
discharge.
That's the way it appears in the MCM. Anyway, a court-martial's sentence of a commissioned officer can be commuted to reduction to any enlisted grade.

You know, it really wouldn't kill the Armed Forces to put all the legal information (UCMJ, MCM, Pay Manual provisions) in one place. I can't find a workable site about commissioned officer's pay status while imprisoned. It might be in the MCB but that's a pretty lengthy tome.

Last edited by Monty; 08-25-2008 at 05:29 PM..
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Just thought of something else. How ironic it would be if I've fallen for one of what I call "military myths" all these years!
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  #41  
Old 08-25-2008, 07:07 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Certainly officers in the military are subject to pay reductions under the UCMJ. If they aren't subject to grade reductions, I wonder why.

My roommate in Germany was an E-4, and a pothead. He got busted on his first urinalysis and was reduced to E-2, served 3 months extra duty and 3 months confinement to barracks as a result of an Article 15.

When he got caught again, he was stripped of his remaining rank and sentenced to Mannheim (a confinement facility in Germany) for 8 months, four months served, and given a BCD (bad conduct discharge).

Don't smoke pot in the military!
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