Son of the SDMB Musicals Group

[twickster]

Back in 2005, we had a musicals discussion group; two, actually. These kind of petered out when people got busy, so we were left with three really cool lists of films that Archive Guy, Lamia (who's no longer around, I don't think), and I put together.

The discussion on Singin' in the Rain elsewhere in this forum reminded me of the group, and I thought I'd see if there's any interest in resurrecting it.

So you know what you're getting into, here are the three lists from three years ago, somewhat tweaked and prodded by yours truly to reflect current Netflix availability and to throw in a couple of new favorites:

I. Politics of Transformation (male protagonists forced to take stock in their lives and the changes in themselves they've witnessed):
All That Jazz
Cabaret
Cabin in the Sky
Guys and Dolls
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
It's Always Fair Weather
The Music Man
The Pirate
Shall We Dance? (1995 Japanese original, not the Richard Gere-JLo remake)

II. The Vagaries of Love:
Bride and Prejudice
Bye Bye Birdie
Oklahoma!
Shall We Dance (Astaire-Rogers)
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg
Note: This list is obviously shorter than the other two -- if you'd like to nominate additional films for it, please do!

III. Period and Nostalgia:
Chicago
Meet Me in St. Louis
Moulin Rouge!
New York, New York
Pennies from Heaven
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
1776
Stormy Weather

The idea would be that we'd pick one of these lists, announce when each would be discussed (I'm thinking two a month), then have a thread on each movie in turn. I'll be happy to write OPs, even though I don't know anything about actual movie criticism, so my comments tend to be scattered and impressionistic -- but if anyone else wants to write an OP for a particular film, or just in general, please let me know! Archive Guy will probably be active, though he's on his way to Europe at the moment -- and I hope lissener and some of the other film buffs would be interested as well.

As suggested above, I just checked Netflix, and all of these are available through there, with several available for instant view. It's possible that a couple of the films I added today had been discussed in one of the earlier incarnations of this group, but I don't see that being a disqualification for discussing them again.

If you're interested, please post, including a vote for which of the three lists you'd like to see us tackle first.

[lissener]

I'd love to participate. Last time around, my hiatus began just as my nomination was up. And no, it's still not available on DVD. Though I know have the capability to make copies of it on a DVR. But even absent that title, I'd like to participate. I'd like to maybe nominate a movie or two that is not a traditional musical, but still uses music as a primary device for storytelling. Also, many movies that aren't considered musicals but that actually are: The Blues Brothers, 8 Mile, Walk the Line, Flashdance, etc.

[twickster]

I had in mind to use one of the three theme lists to start -- if you wanted to suggest something that would work particularly well in one of those themes, that would be great.

[lissener]

Personally, I vote for any list that contains Meet Me in St. Louis first.

[Sigmagirl]

I'm in.

[Annie-Xmas]

Of course I'm in anything that combines the SDMB and Musicals!

[Eureka]

Not in. I am supportive of the idea, but now is not a good time for me. I reserve the right to view and comment on any of the musicals that it turns out to be convenient for me to access (no access to Netflix, now is not a good time to begin for me).

A lot could happen in a couple of months, but don't count on my involvement.

[twickster]

Yay! Sigmagirl, Annie-Xmas, which of the three lists would you like to see us do first?

Eureka -- naturally, "membership" is a loose and fluid notion -- the idea is just to provide a schedule of particular films to watch, so that we've got at least 5 or 10 people who have all watched any given film pretty recently. Obviously anyone who's ever seen the film is welcome to join in, and people are welcome to pick and choose which films they want to watch, based on their schedules and interests. It's not like you have to sign up here in order to ever participate in any of the threads!

Also, I checked Netflix as a kind of general indication of how readily available the films are. Most public libraries have DVD collections -- my little neighborhood branch probably has at least a third of the movies listed here (just off the top off my head). Plus us fans undoubtedly have several in our own collections already -- I personally have (**scans up and counts**) ten of them, and my collection isn't huge (though it is very, very musical-heavy).

[Eureka]

twickster,
Yeah, I get that Netflix availability is just a way of estimating avilability of the movies, not a prerequisite for group involvement. Really, my problem is much more of the "not sure I'll have time to watch a movie if I get access to it" variety, for reasons I'm not interested in posting on-line.

I'm just disappointed in the timing, that's all, even though if the group sticks better than the Classics Reading Group does, it should still be around when my life stabilizes.

[twickster]

Gotcha. Hope you can participate from time to time as things allow -- and also hope that we keep going through all three of these lists and into three new lists! I loves me some movie musicals!

[Tracy Lord]

Could the Politics of Transformation list be expanded to include female protagonists as well, or are they set?

[Baker]

Sounds like fun! I remember the first time I watched Singing in the Rain. I thought Gene Kelly looked okay. But when that slow smile blossomed across his face when Debbie popped out of the cake I realized he was hot! And I've since noticed the same thing with other actors, the transformation a smile or a wicked grin can make!

[twickster]

Originally Posted by Tracy Lord

Could the Politics of Transformation list be expanded to include female protagonists as well, or are they set?

Ten films seems like a good number for a set, just to keep things more or less focussed -- it would be cool to set up a "sister" set for that, though. Any suggestions for what to include?

[Sigmagirl]

Well, Grace Kelly/Tracy Lord got transformed from an ivory goddess into a real woman in High Society. She doesn't sing, but everybody else does.

[twickster]

Yanno what might be fun for female transformation? Enchanted.

[NAF1138]

I am in and vote for transformation list #1.

I also support Enchanted as a film for viewing. It is a wonderful example of what can be done with the modern movie musical.

[amarinth]

I'll watch along.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Of course I'm in anything that combines the SDMB and Musicals!

Ditto.

Total aside, but on the subject of musicals, and having a sentimental softspot for cranky bitter old women anyway, I love Grandma's Song from Billy Elliot; rest of the soundtrack is pretty good too. Favorite lines: "...and we were free for an hour or three/from the people we had to be... but in the mornin'/we were sober".

[twickster]

Great -- glad we're getting some interest -- but how come no one wants to indicate a preference for which set to start with? I'm seeing lissener's vote for Nostalgia, and NAF's for Transformation -- does anyone else care? I don't want to be highhanded and arbitrary, but I'm capable of it if it will get things moving along.

Sheesh. Dealing with Dopers is like herding ADD cats.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by twickster

I don't want to be highhanded and arbitrary, but I'm capable of it if it will get things moving along.

Damn but it's hot when you talk all authoritative and commanding and butch like that [about musicals].

I vote Nostalgia & Period. (Two of my favs are 1776 and RAGTIME after all.)

[twickster]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

Damn but it's hot when you talk all authoritative and commanding and butch like that [about musicals].

Too bad our sexual preferences intersect not at all, eh?

Okay -- that's two votes for nostalgia and period -- are we going to let that be the landslide?

[amarinth]

I'd put "Music Man" in nostalgia and period. And maybe one or another of the "everyone was high" rock musicals (there is no other explanation for Hair. Or Tommy. Or Jesus as a hippie clown) in there, too.

But I'm voting for Transformation first.

[Lamia]

Hi twickster, sorry I didn't see this thread before! I wonder if they've tweaked how private messages work for non-paid accounts, because when I first started posting again I did receive a couple of PMs. But I got your message over in GQ so it's all good.

I'd be happy to participate in this project, but my involvement will probably be limited by other obligations. Since I've already seen a large number of the movies on the list I should be able to at least make some comments even if I don't have time to re-watch (kind of against the spirit I know, but I'll do what I can) or go into great depth.

Oh, amarinth, way back when twickster, Archive Guy and I were originally planning this list I had suggested several rock musicals but was outvoted on most. But in fairness a lot of rock musicals aren't very good, or suffer a lot if you're not a fan of the artist being featured.

[coffinjumper]

As a musical whore, I am totally in.

Current vote is for Politics of Transformation. Most of those I've had lot of fun and interesting discussions with others about anyway. But all is good, you could pic a musical by throwing a dart at a board for all I care.

[twickster]

Yay, Lamia! I was tickled to death to see you over in GQ this morning, and am glad you may be able to pop in from time to time to comment on some musicals. I'll repeat again -- the list and schedule are just to get give people some common base to discuss stuff from, none of it is intended to be exclusionary to people who want to participate at whatever level.

Speaking of hippie musicals, I personally love Hair, and thought about throwing it into the Nostalgia list -- my recollection was that it was Lamia and Archive Guy who voted it down. FTR, I object to it being mentioned in the same breath as Tommy, which was a complete freaking abortion -- the difference being Ken Russell vs. Milos Forman, perhaps? (Yanno, Hair would actually work in one way or another on any of the three lists...) Anyway, I didn't want to get too deeply into rewriting these lists, because I couldn't remember how we'd gotten to them. I just took out a few movies that aren't readily available on DVD and added in a couple of releases from the last two or three years.

Okay, vote count, currently:

Transformation: 3
Nostalgia: 2

The polls are still open.

[Tracy Lord]

I'll pitch in for Nostalgia.

[Eleanor of Aquitaine]

I'd like to participate. I thought I was reasonably fond of musicals, but I've actually seen less than half of your list, so I'm looking forward to it. My vote would be for Period and Nostalgia.

[twickster]

Updating the vote count:

Politics of Transformation: 3
Period and Nostalgia: 4

The polls are still open.

[Sigmagirl]

I will go with Nostalgia, but I am fairly open. I demur because I don't have Netflix. I've never seen The Umbrellas of Cherbourg or Hedwig and the Angry Inch. I'll have to check to see if the library has them, because I'm sure the local video store doesn't.

[MadTheSwine]

Jeez...ok ...Im signed up.

[twickster]

Okay, that makes it 5 to 3 in favor of Period and Nostalgia, so I'll take that as a consensus. I see no reason not to just take these in alphabetical order, so first up is Chicago, with an new thread specifically for that discussion going up on 10/1.

The schedule is as follows:

Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15
Moulin Rouge! 11/1
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
1776 1/1
Stormy Weather 1/15

If anyone wants to write the OP for one or more of these, let me know -- otherwise I'll throw something together to get things started.

[lissener]

I'd like to try to write something up for St. Louis and for Pennies, unless you're especially looking forward to doing so.

[Tracy Lord]

Oh dear, 1776 is my favorite and I'm going on holiday for New Year's! Does anyone care if we swap it with Stormy Weather or Seven Brides?

[anyrose]

Originally Posted by twickster

Okay, that makes it 5 to 3 in favor of Period and Nostalgia, so I'll take that as a consensus. I see no reason not to just take these in alphabetical order, so first up is Chicago, with an new thread specifically for that discussion going up on 10/1.

The schedule is as follows:

Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15
Moulin Rouge! 11/1
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
1776 1/1
Stormy Weather 1/15

If anyone wants to write the OP for one or more of these, let me know -- otherwise I'll throw something together to get things started.

I think Hairspray should go on this list as well. Altho I am not volunteering for the OP on it, or any, because my POV is skewed. Most every musical I see (stage or film) I view with the eye of "which part is right for me?" I can't help it.

[Eonwe]

I'll be following along when I can. I've got three productions going right now (Rent, Into The Woods, and A Chorus Line), so I might be a little musicaled out (nah, who am I kidding!)

[LurkMeister]

I'm a big fan of musicals, and I already have a number of the ones on the the various lists, so I'll be popping in to add my two cents. Oddly enough, perusing my DVD collection reveals that somehow I never got around to picking up a copy of Chicago, but this just gives me an excuse to do so now. I've been wanting to watch it again anyway.

[anyrose]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I'll be following along when I can. I've got three productions going right now (Rent, Into The Woods, and A Chorus Line), so I might be a little musicaled out (nah, who am I kidding!)

are you a producer? or a director? or are you actually performing in all 3? Just don't mix them up. They're 3 different styles.

[twickster]

Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15

I don't want to get into adding more films here -- we can certainly do Hairspray some other time, though. Since the order was arbitrary, I'm swapping the last two (though keep in mind that there's no expiration date on any of these threads, so it's not like the discussion will go "poof" three days after the OP). I'm also adding lissener's name as OP to the films he requested -- Tracy, do you want to be OP for 1776? I've never seen it, so doubt I'd be able to do it justice.

ETA: I believe eonwe is a music director, making his grasp of the differences between these shows rather urgetn.

[NAF1138]

Neat a couple of films that I really dislike on that list, but that's ok. It can be fun to really examine something you dislike. [sour grapes]I still think transformation would have been more interesting. [/sour grapes] Maybe next time.

Are we going to hold the discussion to the films themselves or is the conversation going to be allowed to range further than that to the stage productions, historical context, remakes, etc? Also are the general titles of the lists providing our talking points or are they just a way of grouping things?

For example, a discussion of Moulin Rouge without talking about La Boheme would feel incomplete. Further connections to what Baz Luhrmann is doing with La Boheme now and how other people have adapted it into plays like Rent would be interesting as well, but possibly off topic.

How we gonna do this?

[twickster]

We can talk about whatever we want to talk about. I think some mention of the overarching theme in the OP would be appropriate, but that may or may not be of interest to people as the conversation unfolds. And, sure, other versions are definitely a legitimate topic! Keep in mind, though, that not everyone will be equally familiar with all other works, so there's no guarantee that that part of the conversation will pan out. (Yeah, I was kind of hoping for Transformation also -- if there'd been a tie, I'd've broken it in favor of that -- we can do it next, though, if we keep going with this.)

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by anyrose

are you a producer? or a director? or are you actually performing in all 3? Just don't mix them up. They're 3 different styles.

As twickster said, I music direct. This fall I'm music directing at two high schools and playing in the pit for a community theater production.

I try to not get them confused, but I definitely rely on my stage managers to help me remember things on occasion.

[Tracy Lord]

I'd like to offer 1776 to Sampiro first, as I'm certain he'd do a better job, but if he passes I'll take it!

[twickster]

I PMed him, in case he's not watching the thread too carefully. Any others you might be interested in, if you don't take 1776?

[twickster]

Sampiro tells me via PM that he's in for 1776, making the list look like this:

Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15 OP: Sampiro

Anyone else want to take some of the onus off me by signing up for an OP or two?

[anyrose]

Originally Posted by twickster

Sampiro tells me via PM that he's in for 1776, making the list look like this:

Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15 OP: Sampiro

Anyone else want to take some of the onus off me by signing up for an OP or two?

What are you looking for in an OP?

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by twickster

Anyone else want to take some of the onus off me by signing up for an OP or two?

I'll take Moulin Rouge if it's unclaimed. If it is, no problem.

[twickster]

Originally Posted by anyrose

What are you looking for in an OP?

A paragraph or two with a few things you noticed/liked/disliked/thought were interesting. A traditional review or critical analysis isn't necessary -- and, on the weeks where no one volunteers and I end up doing it, will be nowhere in evidence. Basically it's just starting the thread and linking to it from this thread.

Sampiro -- Moulin Rouge! c'est votre.


Chicago 10/1
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1 OP: Sampiro
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15 OP: Sampiro

[LurkMeister]

I just ordered my copy of Chicago so I should have it in time to give it a refresher viewing before October 1. If nobody else is interested in doing the OP for that I'd be willing to give it a shot. And since I ordered the deluxe edition which includes a bunch of extras, I could even include some info on those if anyone's interested.

[twickster]

That would be great, LurkMeister. It's yours -- thanks!


Chicago 10/1 OP: LurkMeister
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1 OP: Sampiro
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15 OP: Sampiro

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by twickster

That would be great, LurkMeister. It's yours -- thanks!


Chicago 10/1 OP: LurkMeister
Meet Me in St. Louis 10/15 OP: lissener
Moulin Rouge! 11/1 OP: Sampiro
New York, New York 11/15
Pennies from Heaven 12/1 OP: lissener
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers 12/15
Stormy Weather 1/1
1776 1/15 OP: Sampiro

I'll do an OP. Give me NY/NY or Seven Brides, whichever you don't want twickter.