Police are gamers too!

[Kinthalis]

I wasn't sure where to put this, the game forum or here...

Story: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/police-x...news-3023.html

Apparently, police officers pulled over a guy and his friends. They "smelled marijuana" (yeah, sure they did), but found none. They did find, however, an xbox 360 and several games. They said they wanted to check the serial numbers to see if they were stolen merchandise (I call BS on this as well, do the computers in cop cars really have access to a list of stolen xbox serial numbers? I doubt it). They then claimed that although the serial numbers came back clean, they were still going to confiscate the console and the games, and that the only way they were getting them back was to bring a receipt. The guys then went to the station with box AND receipt, and the xbox was no where to be found.

The guys still haven't gotten their xbox 360.

They robbed them. Plain and simple. A bunch of fucking ass hole cops committed blatant theft.

The fuck is wrong with these people?

Dopers of the world, people, protect your rights, because apparently they can be violated this easily. Do not talk to the police beyond identification and the required driver's paper work. DO NOT consent to a search of your person or property. Ask firmly if you are free to go. And most importantly, NEVER travel with your console! Or donuts. Either are apparently too much temptation to the average cop.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

Either are apparently too much temptation to the average cop.

This cop was average?

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by Fish

This cop was average?

Robbing people with the excuse of the drug war has become pretty common, so apparently yes.

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by Fish

This cop was average?

That part was hyperbole. Still, you gotta figure that this wasn't just 1 cop. It was probably his partner as well, and every other cop they bragged about it to at the station.

I'm hoping the media attention will cost these assholes their job and teach the rest a lesson.

[Una Persson]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

Dopers of the world, people, protect your rights, because apparently they can be violated this easily. Do not talk to the police beyond identification and the required driver's paper work. DO NOT consent to a search of your person or property. Ask firmly if you are free to go. And most importantly, NEVER travel with your console! Or donuts. Either are apparently too much temptation to the average cop.

But here we get to the dilemma - cops crooked enough to outright steal an X-Box will have no qualms about searching you and stealing from you regardless of your protests standing by the side of the road. In fact, if you piss them off enough, who knows? Maybe a baggie of pot materializes in your glove box. Maybe a gun does, and you get a full takedown. Maybe you get 3 cops swearing an oath you "took a swing" at one of them. I've personally had cops lie to me and make up offenses (4 made-up traffic tickets in one stop, with a threat that I'd better shut up unless I wanted to go to jail for "resisting"), so I know for a fact it can and will happen.

I agree 100% with your principle. In practice, I do not.

[Kinthalis]

But we have to stand by our principles, don't we?

I understand that a cop will lie to get his ass out of trouble as often as the guy two cubicles down from you (and have had many lie about situations I was involved in as well as threaten myself and my family, etc) and many are down right criminals, but we can't just say "Oh well" and throw our hands up! Can we?

[Una Persson]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

But we have to stand by our principles, don't we?

I understand that a cop will lie to get his ass out of trouble as often as the guy two cubicles down from you (and have had many lie about situations I was involved in as well as threaten myself and my family, etc) and many are down right criminals, but we can't just say "Oh well" and throw our hands up! Can we?

It all depends on the circumstances. Well-lit place with witnesses, sure. Out on a lonely country road...not so sure.

Not meaning to hijack your OP; I agree it's deplorable what the cops did.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Una Persson

But here we get to the dilemma - cops crooked enough to outright steal an X-Box will have no qualms about searching you and stealing from you regardless of your protests standing by the side of the road. In fact, if you piss them off enough, who knows? Maybe a baggie of pot materializes in your glove box. Maybe a gun does, and you get a full takedown. Maybe you get 3 cops swearing an oath you "took a swing" at one of them. I've personally had cops lie to me and make up offenses (4 made-up traffic tickets in one stop, with a threat that I'd better shut up unless I wanted to go to jail for "resisting"), so I know for a fact it can and will happen.

I agree 100% with your principle. In practice, I do not.

Yep.

I have a little book somewhere at home called You and the Police, which offers advice about what to do if you come into contact with law enforcement in a variety of situations.

The author believes that there are three types of cop:

Peace officers - the good and honest cops who really believe in doing their job properly, and who treat citizens with respect and within the bounds of their authority.

Intimidating cops - these police will push the bounds of their constitutional authority, and will try to intimidate you into waiving your rights, often by lying, at every opportunity.

Rogue cops - these are the truly corrupt police, actually willing to actually break the law, to plant evidence, to steal, and generally do just about anything to get their way.

The author of the book believes that the majority of cops are Intimidating Cops, and he says that his book is designed for dealing with those cops. With a true Peace Officer, you won't need most of the advice, and with Rogue Cop the advice will basically be useless, because the advice itself relies on the fact that the cop, at some level, actually cares about your rights and about the possible consequences of his actions.

[Scumpup]

Cops, even good ones, have a tradition of stealing through informal confiscation. I don't think I've ever known even one cop, outside of those who worked only traffic, who didn't have a knife or two and perhaps a gun or two that he had taken off of some mook.
Sometimes the mook in question, due to being or parole or a convicted felon, couldn't legally have the item in question to begin with. Sometimes the mook in question had it taken away from him during a situation where he was facing legal troubles over something unrelated e.g. having a knife seized after getting stopped for possible DUI.
Sometimes the mook in question is a juvenile and not in much of a position to fight city hall and get his property back.

Hell, I've known cops who had whole gun collections made up of guns that were "seized as evidence."

The new generation of cops just has different interests than the cops I knew.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by kinthalis

I call BS on this as well, do the computers in cop cars really have access to a list of stolen xbox serial numbers? I doubt it).

Actually, they might. Not just stolen game systems but stolen anything with a serial number that has been entered into the NCIC/State/local DB is accessable by LE.

This dickhead cop did a dickhead thing and needs time off for it. There was no solid reason evident from the information we have here to say that the removal of the system was appropriate. Now, a scenario I CAN imagine is officer dickerson smelling the dope, finding a little roach or small baggie and exchanging this dude's freedom for the xbox. I'm not saying it's right, but it's possible.

[DrDeth]

From a related site "But the console could not be found because it had not yet been transferred to the evidence room". That too is common, and it can take a day for an item to be loged in. Really, until we give this a day or so, there's no reason to be calling this cop a theif.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

From a related site "But the console could not be found because it had not yet been transferred to the evidence room". That too is common, and it can take a day for an item to be loged in. Really, until we give this a day or so, there's no reason to be calling this cop a theif.

From this story:

The deputy ran the serial numbers and it did not come up as stolen, but he took the game system anyway. He told Hillman he wanted to make sure no one reported it stolen. Deputies told Eyewitness News there had been a lot of burglaries in the area and Xbox systems are hot.

In what fucking universe is it reasonable for a cop to take one of your possessions merely to "make sure no one reported it stolen"?

Where would it stop? "I'm sorry sir, but while your car has not been reported stolen, we need to confiscate it just to make sure."

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by mhendo

From this story:In what fucking universe is it reasonable for a cop to take one of your possessions merely to "make sure no one reported it stolen"?

Where would it stop? "I'm sorry sir, but while your car has not been reported stolen, we need to confiscate it just to make sure."

I did not say the cop wasn't being a dickhead. I said we'll need to wait to see if he's really a theif.

[Fish]

The link in the OP doesn't answer the basic question in my mind: how do you know that the pothead wasn't lying?

"Hey, man, we just have to accuse the cop of stealing my Xbox and boom, we get a free one!"

Seriously. It's entirely possible that this whole thing was made up by a guy who was looking for a way to score something for free. Why is the policeman automatically wrong?

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Fish

The link in the OP doesn't answer the basic question in my mind: how do you know that the pothead wasn't lying?

"Hey, man, we just have to accuse the cop of stealing my Xbox and boom, we get a free one!"

Seriously. It's entirely possible that this whole thing was made up by a guy who was looking for a way to score something for free. Why is the policeman automatically wrong?

From the article i linked in my previous post:

When Eyewitness News called the Orange County Sheriff's Office, a spokesperson said they couldn't find the gaming system because it had not yet been transferred to the evidence room.

Later, Hillman got a hold of the supervisor, Sgt. Hosey. Hillman said Hosey told him he had the system and would give it back.

<snip>

The sheriff's office said it does not believe Hillman stole the system and he is free to pick it up. The sergeant who is handling the situation said he'll give it him Friday because he is busy during the week.

So, the Sheriff's Office admits to having the guy's gaming system. What, then, strikes you as implausible about the driver's story?

[Taber]

They have the receipt.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

I did not say the cop wasn't being a dickhead. I said we'll need to wait to see if he's really a theif.

The problem is, though, that we can now never really know either way.

Of course, once this story hit the news, there's no way the cop is going to keep the XBox. But we have no way of knowing what he would have done had the owner not gone to the media.

I think the very fact that he confiscated the property without making an arrest, and without any evidence that it was stolen, weighs pretty heavily against him.

[Omegaman]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

That part was hyperbole. Still, you gotta figure that this wasn't just 1 cop. It was probably his partner as well, and every other cop they bragged about it to at the station.

I'm hoping the media attention will cost these assholes their job and teach the rest a lesson.

I'm sure it will have the same effect as does the rest on the people that lie. Not a damn thing.

[catsix]

Scumpup said:
Cops, even good ones, have a tradition of stealing through informal confiscation.

By definition, someone who steals is a thief. A good cop and a thief are mutually exclusive terms.

Part of being a 'good cop' means being a 'good person' which means you don't steal from other people. If you want a knife, a gun, or a gaming console, you buy it your damn self.

When you have a gun and you take someone's property by force, that's called robbery. It is not excused if the person doing it also has a badge. If anything, it's worse.

[OtakuLoki]

Originally Posted by mhendo

I think the very fact that he confiscated the property without making an arrest, and without any evidence that it was stolen, weighs pretty heavily against him.

That's just it. Even if we accept only the story of the cops: taking property without any clear indication that it is stolen seems to be a pretty big violation of the whole presumption of innocence thing. Of course the RICO statutes have kicked holes in that already.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by mhendo

From the article i linked in my previous post

And I said, in the OP there was no plausible evidence that the stoners were telling the truth.

From your link it seems as if the stoners are not telling the truth. The police confiscated the item as evidence... tne police did not "steal" it.

[OtakuLoki]

Originally Posted by Fish

From your link it seems as if the stoners are not telling the truth. The police confiscated the item as evidence... tne police did not "steal" it.

Evidence of what, precisely? That teens play video games? Do we need the police to prove that to your satisfaction?

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Fish

And I said, in the OP there was no plausible evidence that the stoners were telling the truth.

On what basis are you calling them "stoners"?

From your link it seems as if the stoners are not telling the truth. The police confiscated the item as evidence... tne police did not "steal" it.

What justification was there to confiscate the item? There was no evidence of any crime being committed.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Fish

And I said, in the OP there was no plausible evidence that the stoners were telling the truth.

From your link it seems as if the stoners are not telling the truth. The police confiscated the item as evidence... tne police did not "steal" it.

You, and they, can use whatever name takes your fancy.

But when they take something with no cause, i think "steal" fits the bill pretty nicely.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Grumman

On what basis are you calling them "stoners"?

This also is a good question.

You seem, Fish, to be quite happy to refer to them as stoners despite zero evidence, yet you are willing to make the most generous interpretation possible of the cop's actions.

[villa]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

From a related site "But the console could not be found because it had not yet been transferred to the evidence room". That too is common, and it can take a day for an item to be loged in. Really, until we give this a day or so, there's no reason to be calling this cop a theif.

Which is one reason why evidence gets tossed in court. I don't know what the procedure is for logging evidence in this precinct, but it sounds like the chain of custody on this piece of "evidence" has been pretty screwed up.

[buttonjockey308]

What we know is that the cop took the xbox, what we don't know is why, and we'll likely never know. The problem is, as Scumpup said, there's often an exchange of goods for services on the street. This is not only common, it's necessary. It's how information gets exchanged, how intel gets gathered, how real bad guys get busted and how some people need to learn lessons.

It's great in theory to rail against the "injustice" that took place here. It's true, the cop was being a dickhead. It's probably also true that because the CP looks like he does, he gets pegged as a knuckle head. It's not necessarily fair, and yes, it's profiling, but more often than not, it works. He looks and/or acts like a dozen guys I've encountered in the past 10 days who, by their aroma alone, were also stoners or hung out with them long enough to come away with at LEAST the odor of teh dope still on their clothing. Also, we don't know what the experiences the CP has had with the local coppers. He may have a long history of arrests or negative contact with the police that the public will never be allowed to know about.

I'm not condoning what the cop did, but I'm saying that you have less to fear from the police than you do from the bad guys. There's a reason this is a news story, because it doesn't happen all that often.


cp=complaining party

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by buttonjockey308

There's a reason this is a news story, because it doesn't happen all that often.

No; it's because he's making a public fight of it instead of rolling over. It's not rare at all, and is often a lot worse than an X-box. It could've been his car instead, for example.

[Paul in Qatar]

What was the deputy's name? Why was that not mentioned?

[Xan]

Originally Posted by buttonjockey308

What we know is that the cop took the xbox, what we don't know is why, and we'll likely never know. The problem is, as Scumpup said, there's often an exchange of goods for services on the street. This is not only common, it's necessary. It's how information gets exchanged, how intel gets gathered, how real bad guys get busted and how some people need to learn lessons.

It's great in theory to rail against the "injustice" that took place here. It's true, the cop was being a dickhead. It's probably also true that because the CP looks like he does, he gets pegged as a knuckle head. It's not necessarily fair, and yes, it's profiling, but more often than not, it works. He looks and/or acts like a dozen guys I've encountered in the past 10 days who, by their aroma alone, were also stoners or hung out with them long enough to come away with at LEAST the odor of teh dope still on their clothing. Also, we don't know what the experiences the CP has had with the local coppers. He may have a long history of arrests or negative contact with the police that the public will never be allowed to know about.

I'm not condoning what the cop did, but I'm saying that you have less to fear from the police than you do from the bad guys. There's a reason this is a news story, because it doesn't happen all that often.


cp=complaining party

Or the cop could have been lying about the marijuana in the first place.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Grumman

On what basis are you calling them "stoners"?

On the same basis that the OP is calling the cop an "average cop" and assuming that all cops are ipso facto thieving, bullying assholes.

I admit that there's something funny going on in this story. However, since the Straight Dope has a "oh noes, evil cops" Pit thread about every 2.2 minutes, my knee-jerk response is to say, "on what evidence do you believe the police are necessarily in the wrong?"

I'm sick and tired of people always assuming that police are bad people. The OP didn't have that evidence, and I'm waiting for such evidence to come to light.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by mhendo

You seem, Fish, to be quite happy to refer to them as stoners despite zero evidence, yet you are willing to make the most generous interpretation possible of the cop's actions.

Hey, somebody's got to represent the other side of the I'm-a-kneejerk-idiot spectrum. There's no basis for referring to the cop as a thief and the teens as pure-as-the-driven-snow innocent victims except habitual paranoia.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Xan

Or the cop could have been lying about the marijuana in the first place.

It's certainly possible that the cop was lying about it. I am not going to automatically accept the word of either party. The evidence presented in the OP seems so egregiously one-sided that it's hard to swallow.

Maybe the cop was leaning on some teenage kids in order to steal an Xbox. But maybe the teens did smell of marijuana and maybe they did have something to hide (which, of course, they would never admit to in a news article).

If the police duly process their paperwork and the kid gets his Xbox back, I'd say we still don't have reliable evidence that either party is necessarily 100% in the right. (Of course, if we see evidence on the Xbox hard drive that somebody was playing games between the time of the arrest and the time of the return, then you got something.)

Is it too much to wait for evidence any more? We have to reach for the rope every time a police officer is accused of inappropriate behavior?

[catsix]

Fish said:
There's no basis for referring to the cop as a thief and the teens as pure-as-the-driven-snow innocent victims except habitual paranoia.

I am struggling to think of a reason why a cop would take an XBOX off of someone when he has absolutely no reason to believe that it is stolen.

They say that it was confiscated as evidence. Evidence of what? Typically there is some sort of crime which an item is evidence of before said item is actually confiscated.

What is the crime that caused the cops to believe the XBOX was evidence and that they had to seize it?

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

Originally Posted by buttonjockey308

This dickhead cop did a dickhead thing and needs time off for it.

Nothing personal buttonjockey308, but this attitude pisses me off. Time off? This guy should be prosecuted for theft and do time in prison just like any other citizen.

Why is it that when cops commit crimes that they only get fired instead of going to prison?

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

You, Fish, are an idiot. I typically take the side of the police in the SDMB police pile ons, but you have gone beyond the pale in defending these assholes.

There is no evidence that the kids were stoners. The police searched them and their car and found no evidence they had any illegal drugs. What evidence do you have that they were stoners? That one of the officers claimed to smell pot? That's hearsay; they searched the kids and their car and no evidence was found. The police may have invented the smell so they could have probable cause, and you know what, I am not going to condemn them for this in this thread... But taking the XBox on the off chance that it was stolen property (even after they ran the serial number and found it clean) is an illegal seizure. If truly concerned, the police could have made a note of the serial number and ran that several days later and then went and picked up the kids if it was reported as stolen. Taking the console with zero evidence that a crime had been committed is criminal and you are a moron for defending it.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by catsix

I am struggling to think of a reason why a cop would take an XBOX off of someone when he has absolutely no reason to believe that it is stolen.

I can't either, assuming the story is true.

But people are full of shit. I'm going to assume that the people in the story are lying about something, because that's what people do. "I was just driving along and minding my own business and the cop pulls me over for no reason at all and steals my Xbox and we're completely innocent" doesn't happen very often.

I'm going to assume that either party may be right, and to skeptically eye any self-serving statements by the victims until we get a complete story representing the other side.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Eyer8

But taking the XBox on the off chance that it was stolen property (even after they ran the serial number and found it clean) is an illegal seizure. If truly concerned, the police could have made a note of the serial number and ran that several days later and then went and picked up the kids if it was reported as stolen. Taking the console with zero evidence that a crime had been committed is criminal and you are a moron for defending it.

How do you know that the victims are telling the truth? Are you willing to say that the story given by the OP is 100% without embellishment? I'm not.

I'm not saying this policeman is 100% innocent. I'm saying take everything with a grain of salt. Too much to ask of you?

[Scumpup]

I guess I should clarify my earlier post about "informal confiscation." When the cops I knew took something, usually a weapon but sometimes other things, off of a mook the underlying dynamic was one of punishment more than greed. Typically the item in question was something the mook could not legally have; perhaps it was stolen, or an illegal substance, or the mook's own legal status interfered_as with weapons.
So the cop taking some ratbag's pistol was less "I want this pistol for myself" than it was "You aren't allowed to have a pistol, ratbag, so I'm taking it...and you should be kissing my ass for not bringing charges against you." Keeping the pistol or knife was actually more of an afterthought. The other stuff they seized, like alcohol from minors or small amounts of illicit chemicals, just got dumped or flushed. Summary extra-legal punishment as a way of keeping the riff-raff acquainted with the pecking order, you see. "I'm flushing your dope, ratbag, and you can't do a thing about it. Don't let me see you out looking for more tonight."
If any of this X-box saga is true at all, it could be a similar situation.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

No; it's because he's making a public fight of it instead of rolling over. It's not rare at all, and is often a lot worse than an X-box. It could've been his car instead, for example.

I believe I understand your leanings, but this statement makes you look completely ignorant of the systems and processes in place. It's more tenable to say the cops rolled the dope dealer for cash or jewelry or whatever, but a car? No.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by Jamaika a jamaikaiaké

Nothing personal buttonjockey308, but this attitude pisses me off. Time off? This guy should be prosecuted for theft and do time in prison just like any other citizen.

Why is it that when cops commit crimes that they only get fired instead of going to prison?

First off, he didn't break into someones house and steal it and the CP is getting the thing back, so at worst he 'impounded' the xbox. Second, as I said, no one REALLY knows why. The cop may have violated policy, he may have gone against SOP/SOG or he may have had a good reason that we'll never know for taking the xbox that would have outraged the public all the more. Say he had a joint in his pocket, or a minor amount of some illegal drug, just as a for instance. Rather than take him down, book him put him into the system, set all the nonsense in motion for what will eventually be a minor fine and/or community service, the cop took the xbox away and decided what to do with it later. I'm not saying the exchange is per se "right" I'm saying it happens. Cops just don't walk around willy-nilly taking the property of innocent people. The ones that do get harsher sentences than the average theif in many jurisdictions because you not only add the count of theft, aggravated by the position of trust but then add official misconduct and the fact that the cops have to go spend time in the jail they helped put people in. It's a much more untenable position with that in mind to be a garden variety thief.

Originally Posted by Xan

Or the cop could have been lying about the marijuana in the first place.

He sure could have.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by Fish

I can't either, assuming the story is true.

But people are full of shit. I'm going to assume that the people in the story are lying about something, because that's what people do. "I was just driving along and minding my own business and the cop pulls me over for no reason at all and steals my Xbox and we're completely innocent" doesn't happen very often.

Can I just add a little information here?

1) They weren't pulled over for "no reason at all", they readily admitted they were pulled over for speeding, but did not get a ticket.

2) They aren't kids. The XBox owner looks like he's about 28-30 years old. He's a black guy with dreds.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

I guess I should clarify my earlier post about "informal confiscation." When the cops I knew took something, usually a weapon but sometimes other things, off of a mook the underlying dynamic was one of punishment more than greed. Typically the item in question was something the mook could not legally have; perhaps it was stolen, or an illegal substance, or the mook's own legal status interfered_as with weapons.
So the cop taking some ratbag's pistol was less "I want this pistol for myself" than it was "You aren't allowed to have a pistol, ratbag, so I'm taking it...and you should be kissing my ass for not bringing charges against you." Keeping the pistol or knife was actually more of an afterthought. The other stuff they seized, like alcohol from minors or small amounts of illicit chemicals, just got dumped or flushed. Summary extra-legal punishment as a way of keeping the riff-raff acquainted with the pecking order, you see. "I'm flushing your dope, ratbag, and you can't do a thing about it. Don't let me see you out looking for more tonight."
If any of this X-box saga is true at all, it could be a similar situation.

So the cops you knew were all criminals?

Good to know that such upstanding citizens are looking out for our interests.

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by mhendo

So the cops you knew were all criminals?

Good to know that such upstanding citizens are looking out for our interests.

The way police do things has changed. For the most part there is now more accountability, which is a good thing. There are also times, however, when it'd be nice if a cop could still administer a little attitude correction with his nightstick and then send a lowlife on his way.

[Stuffy]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

The way police do things has changed. For the most part there is now more accountability, which is a good thing. There are also times, however, when it'd be nice if a cop could still administer a little attitude correction with his nightstick and then send a lowlife on his way.

That attitude makes you a moron.

[Scumpup]

Your genetics make you a moron. My attitude could change.

[Stuffy]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

Your genetics make you a moron. My attitude could change.

My aren't you clever.

[Blaster Master]

Originally Posted by Xan

Or the cop could have been lying about the marijuana in the first place.

I think this is not an unlikely scenario; I've had it happen to me before and I have never smoked it and the people I was with had been with me certainly didn't have any. He tried to use it to search my car and, after denying him that and he got frustrated enough to physically threaten me infront of 2 other witnesses, I got out of the speeding ticket too.


Either way, based on the available evidence, you can't say whether the cop lied and used it as an excuse to search his car and rob him, or if there was some sort of backdoor bribe or extra-legal punishment that went on that involved the Xbox. Either way, there's no justifiable reason for confiscating the confiscating the Xbox, even if he was trying to help the kid avoid a misdemeanor and still learn his lesson, he was acting outside the law. That cop should, at minimum, be suspended if he was doing some sort of extra-legal discipline, and if he did steal it he should absolutely be prosecuted.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Blaster Master

Either way, based on the available evidence, you can't say .....

Anything, really. We don't have any decent updates with something like a statement from the PD.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Fish

I admit that there's something funny going on in this story. However, since the Straight Dope has a "oh noes, evil cops" Pit thread about every 2.2 minutes, my knee-jerk response is to say, "on what evidence do you believe the police are necessarily in the wrong?"

We already know that the police took his Xbox - both sides admit that. That puts the burden of proof on the police to show they had a good reason to do so.

Originally Posted by Scumpup

"You aren't allowed to have a pistol, ratbag, so I'm taking it...and you should be kissing my ass for not bringing charges against you."

Your friends in the police department deliberately subvert firearms laws?