Do I need this overpriced hoojeewatsit to "clean" my electricity for a LCD televsion?

[WhyNot]

Monster PowerCenter.

That's what the guy at Best Buy tried to tell me (along with trying to sell me $120 HDMI cables, also from Monster). He said I needed it to "clean" my electricity, as well as to make it so the LCD television didn't "run so hot", which would "extend its life". I laughed at him, told him nothing from Monster would ever enter my apartment while I had breath in my body, turned down the extended warranty, fenced with him for a while over the "Free Installation" (I gave in on that one and let him schedule it for Saturday; I can cancel it on Friday when I don't need it.), refused the "3 year no interest financing" and finally got the damn TV in my car.

(Are they this bad when men make purchases alone? I felt kinda like it might have been a gender thing...)

Came home, plugged the new TV into the old surge protector (which has that "circuit breaker" feature on the switch, prob'ly cost $12 two years ago), ordered 4 ~$5 HDMI cables from MyCableMart, (which came to $60 even with overnight shipping) but...now I'm wondering. Am I exposing my shiny new expensive television to risky electric gremlins?

I did find a "ferrite" in the TV box, and clipped it onto the television's power cord, near the plug at the surge protector end. Will this suffice?

[Absolute]

If you don't have any obvious power problems at your house, a surge protector is all you need. That's basically all this thing claims to be, although it has some bullshit about reducing electronic noise. The whole point of digital systems is that they are noise-tolerant, so that's a non-issue with new TVs.

Best Buy tries to sell you crap regardless of your gender. I'm a guy, and I went in there with my dad to buy an HDTV the other day. In addition to the standard overpriced HDMI cables, they tried to sell us an extended warranty by saying the high-end LG TV we were buying was actually one of the most unreliable models, and gave us some similar bullshit to what you must have heard about power fluctuations and picture quality.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate to reward a company with such lousy business practices, when I need to buy something quickly, they're damn convenient if you're willing to tune out the bullshit.

[What Exit?]

You did the right thing. Best Buy was trying to sell you stuff that you do not need.

[Jimmy Joe Meager]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

as well as to make it so the LCD television didn't "run so hot"

If your TV's running hot you should do a basic inspection of the cooling system first. Fluid topped up? Any obvious leaks? If nothing apparent jumps out there, you might have a bad thermometer which, depending on the model and your mechanical expertise, might require taking it to a shop to have it replaced.

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, it was just the perfect setup. Absolute is correct.)

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Absolute

Best Buy tries to sell you crap regardless of your gender.

Oh good! I guess. I mean, better it be that they do it to everyone than because I have boobs.

In addition to the standard overpriced HDMI cables,

Oh my goodness! Tell me about it. I'd read online about the problem, but until I was in the market myself, I had no idea how bad the rip-off really is. No exaggeration, $120 or $5. I mean, I'm used to paying a little more for the convenience of getting everything all at one place, but not that much more!

Unfortunately, as much as I hate to reward a company with such lousy business practices, when I need to buy something quickly, they're damn convenient if you're willing to tune out the bullshit.

Tell me about it. I like to look at it this way: if I do my homework online, I can find the cheapest price. If it's Best Buy (it was, by about $100), and I can pay it and get out of there without falling for any upselling at all, I've probably COST them money, not made them money. That makes me happy.

Originally Posted by What Exit?

You did the right thing.

Yay!

[Xema]

I suspect that there's little risk in assuming that anything a BestBuy (or similar store's) salesman recommends to accompany the purchase of a chosen item is either not worth having or available elsewhere for a much better price. The more he tries to push a certain item, the more likely this is to be true.

Anyone know of exceptions to this?

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Xema

Anyone know of exceptions to this?

Nope. They'll do the same regarding speaker wire. (And the same "don't buy Monster" screed applies even moreso in that instance.)

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Xema

I suspect that there's little risk in assuming that anything a BestBuy (or similar store's) salesman recommends to accompany the purchase of a chosen item is either not worth having or available elsewhere for a much better price. The more he tries to push a certain item, the more likely this is to be true.

Anyone know of exceptions to this?

I know of no exceptions. Warranties in particular.

Wait, one possible exception. If you are not capable of carrying the product home and setting it up and they push for delivery and set-up it might be correct though it will still be overpriced.

[Hampshire]

You did the right thing.
If you get home and hook it up and the picture looks great to you consider yourself $115 richer for not buying their cables.
And in 3-4 years when the TV is still running just fine consider yourself another $200-$400 richer for not buying their extended warranty.
And get yourself a normal surge protector for ~$30 and consider yourself $200 richer for not buying that Monster Cable thing.

Add-ons are designed to suck money out of the consumers pockets and make money for the retailer. Not un-like appetizers/alcohol/desserts, rustproofing, tennis-shoe-scuff-remover, etc, etc.

[masterofnone]

Having lost 2 TV's to power surges, I would get a better surge protector, but you don't need to spend that crazy money on one. Your $12 one is not much of a surge protector. Here's a $12 one, and it's rated to 900 joules. Here's one for $38 that is rated for 2700 joules.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by masterofnone

Having lost 2 TV's to power surges, I would get a better surge protector, but you don't need to spend that crazy money on one. Your $12 one is not much of a surge protector. Here's a $12 one, and it's rated to 900 joules. Here's one for $38 that is rated for 2700 joules.

I thought that "rated for X joules" was a measure of the lifespan of the surge protector, not its effectiveness. No?

That being said, how do I know if my surge protector is nearing the end of its lifespan, anyhow? Should I just replace it periodically to be sure, even if it still appears to be working? How often?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

I thought that "rated for X joules" was a measure of the lifespan of the surge protector, not its effectiveness. No?

That being said, how do I know if my surge protector is nearing the end of its lifespan, anyhow? Should I just replace it periodically to be sure, even if it still appears to be working? How often?

If you're worried, but a newer one and move the current one to a less important area. Use it as a power strip for minor electrical stuff. In general though they hold up for a very long time.

[Manduck]

I once asked a guy in Best Buy whether this cable (in my left hand) was the same type as that cable (in my right hand), because the connectors looked a little different. Instead of answering my question (I would have accepted "yes", "no", or "I don't know"), he tried to convince me to buy a third cable that was much more expensive than either of the two I was considering. It was one of those annoying pitches where he asks me a lot of questions too, like do I consider quality important, etc. I got so pissed off that I walked out of there without buying anything.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Absolute

In addition to the standard overpriced HDMI cables, they tried to sell us an extended warranty by saying the high-end LG TV we were buying was actually one of the most unreliable models, and gave us some similar bullshit to what you must have heard about power fluctuations and picture quality.

I'd have said, "Oh - you say this model you're selling me is really unreliable? Then no thanks." I might even tell a manager that I was "this close" to buying the set, bbut since they put such unreliable products out on the floor I'm reconsidering - just to watch him backtrack.

[mks57]

Originally Posted by masterofnone

Having lost 2 TV's to power surges, I would get a better surge protector, but you don't need to spend that crazy money on one. Your $12 one is not much of a surge protector. Here's a $12 one, and it's rated to 900 joules. Here's one for $38 that is rated for 2700 joules.

I'd also look to make sure it has been tested and listed to the requirements of UL 1449, the standard for Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors.

http://www.ul.com/consumers/surge.html

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted by Munch

I'd have said, "Oh - you say this model you're selling me is really unreliable? Then no thanks." I might even tell a manager that I was "this close" to buying the set, bbut since they put such unreliable products out on the floor I'm reconsidering - just to watch him backtrack.

Former (long ago) Radio Shack store manager here. That doesn't work; salespeople (and sales managers) are well-trained at overcoming objections such as this. You play the "unreliable" card, and they play the "even Rolls-Royce has a service department" card.

[Ponderoid]

Another recent thread on electronic snake oil.

*** Ponder

[RealityChuck]

Originally Posted by Absolute

In addition to the standard overpriced HDMI cables, they tried to sell us an extended warranty by saying the high-end LG TV we were buying was actually one of the most unreliable models

The correct response to this is, "well, if it's so unreliable, you might as well cancel the sale. I'll go somewhere that doesn't sell unreliable crap."

[Rysto]

This is what they're trying to sell you. Monster Cables sell overpriced equipment to the gullible.

[Smeghead]

When we bought a dryer at BB (they were the only ones in town carrying the one that matched our last-years'-model washer), the salesman warned that if we didn't get a new dryer vent hose, the new dryer probably wouldn't work (I think he said that they would refuse to install it without a new hose, which I was fine with, and I'm perfectly capable of installing a dryer), and implied quite strongly that our house would burn down. Literally.

[Magiver]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Monster PowerCenter.

I would like to see how the color-coded sockets prevent you from unplugging the wrong unit. That must be some special trick. And a surge protector cannot adjust for fluctuations of voltage so the claim made by the sales-dweeb is fertilizer.

Originally Posted by WhyNot

(Are they this bad when men make purchases alone? I felt kinda like it might have been a gender thing...)

Yes, they are. I had a salesman turn away and mumble something insulting at a store after I refused the extended warranty. I resisted the urge to buy the warranty just to see if they would honor it after I beat him unconscious with the TV. The store went under soon after. I don't know why.....

I don't understand the price of cables. I wanted a USB extension cable for my car and laptop to avoid the possibility of snapping a memory stick when it's sticking out (been there, paid dearly for that). It was over $30. I went to the dollar store and bought them for..... a dollar

You done good.

[friedo]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Monster PowerCenter.

Do not buy anything from Monster, ever.

[GaryM]

I did install an uninterruptable power supply for my rear projection LCD TV, but only to prevent the set's turning off then back on during power interruptions. Figured it would keep the bulb from having so many start cycles. It also contains a power conditioning circuit. But if I had a TV that didn't use a $200 bulb I'd not have bothered.

[Martini Enfield]

Penny Arcade summed the whole thing up pretty well in this strip, I think.

[GusNSpot]

We have bad power up here on the mountain. Lots of surges, brown outs and lightning strikes.

When we know in advance that really bad stuff is coming, we unplug. Had a big hot lightning strike just outside and the massive EMF pulse still got some delicate stuff even though it was unplugged.

For surges, I have 2 protectors, a cheap one at the plug and then a good one, like "Triplite" before the battery back up. Just as yanking the plug on a computer is not real good for them, it does no good for the $2000 LCD TV's either. So I keep a big powerful Batter back up running the power to my equipment, computers, cell phone amplifiers, Expensive TV's,

[GusNSpot]

Because I am slow:::::

We have bad power up here on the mountain. Lots of surges, brown outs and lightning strikes.

When we know in advance that really bad stuff is coming, we unplug. Had a big hot lightning strike just outside and the massive EMF pulse still got some delicate stuff even though it was unplugged.

For surges, I have 2 protectors, a cheap one at the plug and then a good one, like "Triplite" before the battery back up. Just as yanking the plug on a computer is not real good for them, it does no good for the $2000 LCD TV's either. So I keep a big powerful Batter back up running the power to my equipment, computers, cell phone amplifiers, expensive TV's, and answering machine. When the power goes walkabout, we can finish the program, the message board, still use the walk round phones, etc.

And no, two surge protectors do not cancel each other out nor make the UPS act wonky. For the average surge , the cheap (less than $10) ones catch them just fine and are cheap to replace. When we get a monster lightning strike, so far the big high dollar ones catch the rest of it. A lot cheaper than replacing the equipment.

It is like insurance... I chuckle when the neighbors cry about their fried or broken equipment caused by sudden power interruptions and surges from the system ... "Buy the guys on the message boards said that stuff was not needed and the cheapest stuff was just as good...." I say; " Well, yeah, they said that but are they here paying for your ruined equipment?" Mine is not broken.... Just because "Monster" is not so worth much does not mean that protection and common sense is not needed.

I have 6 battery back-ups on my stuff here in the house and in the garage . I have only paid for two of them. The rest were from people who said that nothing ever went wrong so they did not need them. Bawahahahah

My main back-up fro my computer will carry my desktop, the modem/router and the answering machine for 3.5 hours for sure, the power came back on so I don't know for sure how long it will go.

The one for the LCD TV will run for over an hour.

Hummm, now that I think about it, all my stuff is covered for over an hour . Nice smooth power from a funky co-op electric company out in the boonies... Works for me.

If you don't know what to get or not get before you went into Worst Buy, you did not do your home work and deserve to get hoodwinked...

And as always... YMMV

[The Second Stone]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Oh good! I guess. I mean, better it be that they do it to everyone than because I have boobs.

Yay!

Yay! Yourself. Why didn't you say you had boobs earlier? How're you doin? On a more serious note, yes, they do this to everyone.

Originally Posted by GusNSpot

We have bad power up here on the mountain. Lots of surges, brown outs and lightning strikes.

When we know in advance that really bad stuff is coming, we unplug. Had a big hot lightning strike just outside and the massive EMF pulse still got some delicate stuff even though it was unplugged.

For surges, I have 2 protectors, a cheap one at the plug and then a good one, like "Triplite" before the battery back up. Just as yanking the plug on a computer is not real good for them, it does no good for the $2000 LCD TV's either. So I keep a big powerful Batter back up running the power to my equipment, computers, cell phone amplifiers, Expensive TV's,

Gus is right. If you are constantly replacing light bulbs and having outages, it can't hurt to have a surge protector. If your house isn't properly grounded, a lightning strike will kill the TV. But if you live in a major metropolitan area or burb with a house built within the past 40 years, this is not going to be a problem.

[Electronic Chaos]

I especially like this "feature":

*Blue LED digital meter displays voltage

In case, you know, you forgot what country you were in and weren't quite sure if it's safe to plug in your TV.

[mks57]

Originally Posted by The Second Stone

Gus is right. If you are constantly replacing light bulbs and having outages, it can't hurt to have a surge protector. If your house isn't properly grounded, a lightning strike will kill the TV. But if you live in a major metropolitan area or burb with a house built within the past 40 years, this is not going to be a problem.

I've had equipment fried by the power company when they were doing maintenance on the local power distribution system. It was stuff that was not plugged into a surge protector.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by The Second Stone

Yay! Yourself. Why didn't you say you had boobs earlier? How're you doin? On a more serious note, yes, they do this to everyone.



Gus is right. If you are constantly replacing light bulbs and having outages, it can't hurt to have a surge protector. If your house isn't properly grounded, a lightning strike will kill the TV. But if you live in a major metropolitan area or burb with a house built within the past 40 years, this is not going to be a problem.

I live in Chicago, the city proper. While there's some iffiness to the electricity in the back of the apartment, it's because the dining room, office, kids room and half the kitchen is wired to one circuit. It's one of those "don't turn on the toaster oven while the microwave is on" kitchens. But the front room with the tv isn't part of that mess. We've been here three years with no outages that I can remember; my mom in the suburbs loses power more often than I do here.

I think maybe upgrading to a $30-40 newer surge protector is in order just for peace of mind, but it's not going to be anything from Monster or Best Buy, for sure!

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Electronic Chaos

I especially like this "feature":

*Blue LED digital meter displays voltage

In case, you know, you forgot what country you were in and weren't quite sure if it's safe to plug in your TV.

For what it is worth, that voltage display is hopefully there to show if you are taking voltage dips or even running high. We once had a pair of power supplies burn out on the same work computers and at least one inkjet. I found a surge protection station that showed voltage. It showed that at times the voltage was dropping to 100v or less IRC. We got maintenance to fix the circuit and stopped having problems.

[NicePete]

Originally Posted by Smeghead

When we bought a dryer at BB (they were the only ones in town carrying the one that matched our last-years'-model washer), the salesman warned that if we didn't get a new dryer vent hose, the new dryer probably wouldn't work (I think he said that they would refuse to install it without a new hose, which I was fine with, and I'm perfectly capable of installing a dryer), and implied quite strongly that our house would burn down. Literally.

Dryer won't work = BS

Replacing dryer vent hose on a regular basis = good idea. Lint filled dryer hoses are a major source of house fires.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by NicePete

Dryer won't work = BS

Replacing dryer vent hose on a regular basis = good idea. Lint filled dryer hoses are a major source of house fires.

Why not just clean them? I do yearly.

[Hampshire]

When I saw them selling these at Best Buy I just laughed myself silly.
The sales people must just roll their eyes thinking "Good god, they really expect me to push those?"

[masterofnone]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

I thought that "rated for X joules" was a measure of the lifespan of the surge protector, not its effectiveness. No?

That being said, how do I know if my surge protector is nearing the end of its lifespan, anyhow? Should I just replace it periodically to be sure, even if it still appears to be working? How often?

After a little googling, I'm more confused than ever. It seems a low clamping voltage is more important than how many joules it will absorb. Hopefully someone that knows more than can explain it. Still, I would not trust a $12 surge protector to be anything more than a power strip.

[SmellMyWort]

You paid $40 for shipping on $20 worth of cables?

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by SmellMyWort

You paid $40 for shipping on $20 worth of cables?

Yep, and I still came out ahead of even driving to the local Target and paying $30 each for the cables there. Sometimes value isn't just in the bottom dollar, but getting what you want, when you want it. I could have gone for cheaper shipping, but whatwith the snow in Chicago right now, lower priority mailing is a dodgy prospect right now.

The Kid's 16th birthday party is on Saturday, and having the whole new system shiny and ready to show off is a sort of birthday gift to him (even though the system isn't his, per se).

And hey, guess what? Turns out we had an HD cablebox all along! None of us noticed, but heck if it doesn't say it right on the front of the box, and we're getting HD channels now. That's kinda cool - we're gonna be all set in time for Battlestar Galactica, baby!

[Smeghead]

Originally Posted by NicePete

Dryer won't work = BS

Replacing dryer vent hose on a regular basis = good idea. Lint filled dryer hoses are a major source of house fires.

I was aware of that, naturally, but one would assume that I, as the resident of the house, would have a better idea than the salesman how badly the hose needed replacement. And trying to link the hose sale to the dryer sale was a non sequitur.

[Jamicat]

The ONLY cables that need be scrutinized are speaker cables...The thicker the better...less resistance.

I do audio and there is a difference in cheap and expensive...
but not TOO freaking expensive like gold plated...pretty doesn't mean good quality.

I usually buy a roll of good wire/cord and tips then make my own.

With all these new connections, we are kinda at the mercy of the people that have the machinery to mold the connectors.

Digital signals either work or not...Monster cables are a SCAM.

[GusNSpot]

Everybody always focuses on spikes, higher voltage. Why? Don't have kids, critters, clumsy friends and neighbors that knock, pull plugs from walls? Never have a fuse blow or breaker trip? Never had equipment ruined from improper shut down? Never got tired of the hassle of rebooting a Win 95 or 98 system after a power crash?

Saving systems from power lose is almost important as saving it from power spikes, my experience and opinion. Having time to shut down properly or not having to reboot for every temporary power interruption much less the potential damage from same has not or does not ever enter you decision making?

I can't afford new stuff each year so I have to take care of what I have.

I wonder sometimes, you can get 7200 RPM 40 GIG hard drives for practically free yet not many people have one or three nor do they clone their "C" drive on a regular basis but oh how they scream when the HD failure eats all their stuff....

I d not understand people who just dare Murphy and Karma to slap them up side the head on a regular basis......

::: wanders off mumbling to my self.. ::::

[simster]

I had a 'whole house' surge protector installed, it is an integrated piece of the breaker box, and protects everything 'this side' of the breaker box.

I have cheap surge protectors/outlet multipliers where I need them.

Between the two, I've never had an issue.

[Stainz]

[hijack] how does one go about cleaning their dryer vent hose? [/hijack]

[gaffa]

The vast majority of the protection offered by any surge suppressor is a small electronic part called a varistor. It shunts large voltage spikes to ground. It's in every surge suppressor sold.

But, as mentioned above, lightning laughs at your puny surge suppressors. Millions of volts of electricity has just surged through open air - nothing short of unplugging will truly protect electronic devices, though excellent grounding will help.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Stainz

[hijack] how does one go about cleaning their dryer vent hose? [/hijack]

For me it is not too hard. I pull my dryer out and disconnect the hose and use my shop vacc on it and a long lint brush, usually outside. I do the same in my basement to the dryer vent pipe leading outside.

When I first moved in the vent pipe was about 50% loaded. My clothes actually dried significantly quicker once I cleaned the pipe. Now whenever it seems like the clothes are taking longer to dry and clean out the hose and pipe again.

I also use the lint brush on the lint screen area of the dryer itself. It is the same type of brush sold for cleaning the heat exchanger (grill/metal fins/radiator looking thing) under the fridge.

[Stainz]

Thanks What Exit? !

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Stainz

[hijack] how does one go about cleaning their dryer vent hose? [/hijack]

Turn on the dryer. It blows a blast of air out the back, cleaning out the hose.

Seriously, if you think lint is getting stuck in there, unscrew the clamps, remove the vent hose, and run it under a faucet. Swab it out with a rag. Dry and replace. Nothing to it.

[ghostman]

Originally Posted by Stainz

[hijack] how does one go about cleaning their dryer vent hose? [/hijack]

Firefighter here. Just to echo what everyone has said about cleaning vents being important. The way i usually clean mine is to pull the dryer away from the wall, disconnect and then get all the lint out whatever way i can. A vacuum works well.

More important than cleaning (well.. at least <as> important) is to make sure you don't us the flexible plastic dryer vents. They have been the cause of more than one fire i've been on. Use the smooth metal ones that you can buy at your local hardware stores. Also, when installing, try for a straight shot. if you need to have bends, make them as smooth as possible to eliminate lint buildup.

[thirdname]

I don't know about surge protectors, but I know that Monster sells overpriced audio cables with deceptive marketing.

I would avoid buying Monster just because of their business practices. For years they have been suing any and every business that uses the word "Monster," even if it's completely unrelated to audio or cables. They demand the businesses either change their names or pay royalties. The latest one that was in the news was a place called Monster Mini Golf. They apparently dropped that suit in response to the bad publicity, but it remains to be seen if they are going to keep on suing others.