Has anybody ever had a surge protector start smoking?

I was home today, which I never am on a weekday, and his afternoon I smelled smoke. I came into the computer room where black smoke was coming out of a melting surge protector. First time that’s happened; I unplugged everything from the SP and unplugged the SP from the wall, and there’s a dime sized molten area on the bottom.

I’m hoping it was the surge protector itself and not the wiring; it was an old one. I went to the store and bought a more powerful one and all things seem to be working okay.

Has this happened to anybody else and does anybody know if there’s a quick and easy way to know if it was caused by a faulty SP or the wiring of my apartment?

Things plugged into my SP: laptop, modem, a cordless telephone, a table lamp, and an electric fan. (For some reason I never plugged the router into it- it’s plugged into the other socket of the plug.) I wouldn’t think that would be too much, but, I’ve no idea.

Sure did, and credit to the odor of burning rug fibers is how I was able to detect it. It was an older model… late 90’s… and replaced with no further problems. Not sure if it was caused by lightning which as I recall was prevalent that day.

I kept warning mine about the dangers of cancer and how addictive smoking is, but did it listen?

I used to work for a company that did assessments/repairs for insurance damage.

There is (or was) a part inside surge protectors called a movistor. It was designed to sacrifice itself when there was a surge. It looks like a flat capacitor. This page has a pic…

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-business-industrial-Qty-of-10-V130LA10A-Movistor-MOV-Varistor-Surge-Suppressor-W0QQAdIdZ471435303

I never saw a surge in process - but saw them afterwards (lightning I guess in many cases), and they definitely looked smoked, but can’t say if they actually do during a regular surge.

ETA:

You should be able to open it up with probably just regular screw driver. If you see a part that looks like pic I posted, but burnt - it sacrificed itself for you. It should be obvious when you open it - there isn’t a whole lot else in there.

Take a volt reading at the outlet.

Actually it is called MOV, which stands for Metal Oxide Varistor. A Varistor is a variable resistor. It is connected in parallel with the device under protection. At normal line voltages it presents a very high resistance so almost no current passes through it. But at spike voltages the resistance drops and it shunts the induced high currents,thus protecting the conected devices.

who will protect the surge protectors?

Gas discharge tubes! :stuck_out_tongue:

A protector that “sacrificed” itself did no protection. And was a potential house fire. Effective protectors earth even direct lightning strikes. And remain functional. This completely other device (also called a protector) connects within feet of earth ground. Is sized to even conduct direct lightning strikes (ie at least 50,000 amps). And is necessary to even protect undersized protectors.

A fire marshal describes the potential house fire:
http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/Pharr/INVESTIGATING%20SURGE%20SUPPRESSOR%20FIRES.doc

MOV manufacturers are quite blunt about this in Absolute maximum parameters in their datasheets. An MOV must not fail catastrophically. Those tiny plug-in protectors need protection only possible by earthing one ‘whole house’ protector. The ‘whole house’ solution typically costs about $1 per protected appliance. How much for an undersized power strip that failed?

don’t plug things in to the device that don’t need protection (lamp, fan, maybe phone). you use up the capacity of the protector and could lessen its life.

surges might happen for a number of reasons. bad wiring is not a likely cause. if you have bad wiring a voltage measurement at that receptacle (right out of the wall) or leaving an incandescent lamp on (plugged in that receptacle right out of the wall) might indicate a problem.

No, I have not had a surge protector smoke on me, but I did have a 1,000 watt electric heater burn the socket on one surge protector.

I still use the same surge protector … I just don’t use the one with burn marks.

Although once in the dark I did manage to plug in another electrical device into a surge protector
with the two prongs going into two different sockets.

electrical device did not work lol

removed and tried again with sucess :slight_smile:

I’ve seen dozens if not hundreds that are basically charred and burnt almost beyond recognition. When hit by lightning - it fucks up shit. Maybe it isn’t supposed to, but it does - including melting of plastic in some cases and breaking of PC boards and melting of traces.

Of course keep in mind I usually only saw the ones that failed - as people were submitting their equipment for lightning damage. I never examined the ones where the MOV (or whatever) actually worked as designed and suppressed some amount of power. I wasn’t a tech either (obviously), but if I saw the MOV burnt - I was allowed to write down “lightning damage” and other people took it from there. A tech had explained it to me as a sacrificial part. Perhaps he meant in extreme surge. Sometimes there was other equipment brought in - actually most of the time - so some stuff was damaged, but they had given me the impression that at least in some cases - the destruction of the MOV meant it had “done its job” or something along that line.

You seem to know more about this than I do. Are you saying in no case it’s possible that the MOV saved a piece of equipment (by taking the damage itself) - or just that it isn’t designed to do that – and the destruction is an uninteded side effect - or something else?

Whatever the case - is bet a shiny quarter that the MOV is what is destroyed in his SP - and he probably just needs a new one.

The techs did mention those whole home protectors (that I think you are talking about). I’ve never heard of anyone that actually got one (including the guys hat told me about them). I’ve heard good things - but doesn’t seem to be commonly known. You just get them from your power company?

An MOV works by basically turning on and becoming a short circuit when the voltage across it gets too high, causing it to “clamp” the incoming surge. The MOV can only handle so much power though. Exceed that and the MOV will fail. MOVs are designed so that when they do fail, they do so in such a way that they shouldn’t just sit there and burn. You wouldn’t want your protective device to actually start a fire, otherwise it’s not a very good protective device.

A good surge protector will have at least 3 MOVs in it, one from hot to neutral, one from hot to ground, and one from neutral to ground. Some of the cheaper ones only have one MOV from hot to neutral.

All surge protectors have their limits. What you want to look at is the joule rating, and the higher the number the better. Your typical power strip type of surge protector will usually be rated for a few hundred joules. Whole house surge protectors are better, partly because they have a higher joule rating (typically a couple thousand joules) and partly because they clamp the surge where it enters the house, before it can reach a lot of things and do damage. Even the best whole house surge protector won’t protect you from a direct lightning strike though. Lightning is up in the range of about a billion joules, which should make it kinda obvious why a surge protector rated at a few thousand joules just can’t quite cut it. You can protect a building and the equipment inside of it from a direct lightning strike, but it requires a lot more than a simple surge protector (google things like ufer grounds, halo grounds, faraday cages, etc).

Another thing to look for is the clamping voltage, with the lower numbers being better. A higher number means that the MOVs won’t clamp until the incoming voltage reaches that higher value, which means they will let more of the surge pass through to your equipment.

Unfortunately most power strip type of surge protectors do not have any indication at all to show that the MOV has blown. So your surge protector may protect you from one surge, and then will be completely ineffective when the next one comes along. Better surge protectors have a light that indicates whether or not the MOVs have blown.

Also, note that a surge protector is not a circuit breaker. It does not trip due to overcurrent, and also will not trip due to a ground fault or an arc fault. That’s what they make overcurrrent breakers, GFCIs, and AFCIs for.

Getting back to the OP, I’m not convinced that a failed MOV caused the smoke. Power strips are typically constructed with thin pieces of metal running up through them. Its possible for there to be a fault in the joints of those metal bits, possibly caused by plugging things in and out of the strip over the years. It’s also possible for something conductive to fall into one of the holes and short something out. The metal bits can also just corrode over time, especially if you live in a humid environment or if you live close to the ocean where there’s salt in the air as well. The power strips that I have seen smoke have been due to damage or just overheating from too many things plugged into them. I’ve never seen an MOV smoke. Usually when they fail they go completely. They don’t usually sit and smolder.

ETA: The hot spot on the surge protector makes me think that all of the bad stuff happened inside of it. I doubt that there is damage to anything else. A wiring fault won’t generally cause a surge protector to fail. The only scenario I can think off that might off the top of my head is a floating neutral problem, which would cause the voltage to float up and possible cause the surge protector to overheat and fail due to the excessive voltage and the corresponding excessive current with it. This can damage all kinds of things and will usually not trigger the surge protector’s protection.

Due to superior protection already inside all appliances, a surge too tiny to damage appliances can still destroy a grossly undersized protector. Remember - the honest answers always include numbers. How does that protector rated at hundreds of joules somehow absorb a destructive surge that is hundred of thousands of joules? That is what myths claim.

Often, a smaller surge (too tiny to damage any appliance) instead destroys a grossly undersized protector. That gets the most naive to ‘assume’, “My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer.” Nonsense. That is an example of why knowledge from observation is called junk science.

Junk science routinely avoids numbers. Read its spec numbers How does a protector rated at hundreds or a thousand joules stop or absorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? How does its 2 centimeter part stop what three miles of sky could not? Obviously it cannot and does not.

These concepts were understood over 100 years ago. But so many consumers, instead, believe advertising and urban myths. Advertising that subjectively claims a 300 joule protector (three MOVs) is somehow 100% protection. Legal is to make any claim without numbers. The so many who ignore numbers then automatically believe advertising.

How does that protector work? Grossly undersized MOVs are connected via a thermal fuse. That fuse must disconnect as fast as possible so that MOVs do not create a house fire. Thermal fuse (completely different from the 15 amp breaker) blows to protect MOVs. And leaves a surge connected to appliances.

No problem. Appliances already contain superior protection.

Sometimes that fuse does not blow fast enough. A fire marshal (see previous post) described a resulting fire. In Australia, melbourne architect in “Safety Switches / Surge Protection” at described a protector that created a fire in an Australian fire house:

In West Whiteland PA, a fire company showed pictures of protectors that almost caused a fire. And issued this warning:

Examples of house fires are many. Because an adjacent protector is often grossly undersized - a profit center. Take a $4 power strip. Add some 10 cent protector parts. Sell it at extreme profit for $25 or $40. Or sell the same strip with fancier paint for $80 or $120 (ie Monster Cable). Then the naive consumer knows it is better only because it cost more. Nonsense. It is electrically equivalent to one selling in Walmart for less than $10.

Was it recommended by first learning facts and numbers? Or did someone see it fail - then speculate only from observation? Knowledge from observation is classic junk science reasoning. The previously cited fire marshall summarized facts.

Every consumer can immediately separate ineffective protectors that do not claim protection from a completely different device also called a protector. The effective ‘whole house’ protector has a wire to earth. A connection that must be as short as possible (ie ‘less than 10 feet’). So that a consumer says where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Only then does the minimally sized ‘whole house’ protector (at least 50,000 amps) earth all surges (including direct lightning strikes) and not fail. Only then does nobody know a surge even existed.

No protector does protection. Protection is performed by earth ground. The effective protector connects surges harmlessly to earth. Ineffective protectors will not even discuss where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Honesty (ie numbers) can harm sales.

A ‘whole house’ protector is how protection was done even 100 years ago. A grossly undersized protector (a potential house fire) fails to promote sales and increase profits. Unfortunately, most recommend only what hearsay and advertising has told them. Any recommendation with spec numbers is bogus (ie junk science).

The informed learn that a failed protector did not protection. And then read numbers to know why. How did its hundreds of joules stop a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? It didn’t.

Fortunately, best protection at the appliance is already inside that appliance. Be concerned about a rare surge (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm internal appliance protection. Only a properly earthed ‘whole house’ protector (50,000 amps or higher) connects a typically destructive surge to what does all protection - single point earth ground.

Effective protection is always about connecting and dissipating energy harmlessly in earth. Always. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. An informed consumer knows where energy is absorbed so that nothing - not even the protector - is damaged.

A ‘whole house’ protector is part of the only solution found in facilities that cannot have damage. But most computer techs have no ideal what they are nor know what a protector even does. Concepts were well proven over 100 years ago. A technology so well proven that your telco (CO) switching center (connected to wires all over town) suffers about 100 surges per storm without damage. A technology required in every broadcast station and munitions dump. So why do so many techs never learn this?

More responsible manufacturers provide them including ABB, Siemens, General Electric, Ditek, Intermatic, Square D, Syscom, and Polyphaser - to name but a few. The Eaton (Cutler-Hammer) ‘whole house’ protector was selling in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

But again, the protector is simple dumb science. The art is earthing and how that protector connects to earth. Uninformed techs will discuss a protector, in part, because they do not even know what does protection: single point earth ground. Most questions should be about the only device that must always exist in every protection ‘system’. Many ‘systems’ do not even have protectors. But every protection ‘system’ always (without exception) has the earth ground. That (and not a protector) is what most of your questions should address.

Just had to point out that I initially read the title of this thread as “Has anybody ever had a smoke protector start smoking?” and I was wondering about the implications of such. Would it detect its own smoke?

Surge protectors have a definite lifespan; the MOVs and other protective devices eventually wear out and can fail in the way the OP describes. Replace a surge protector that’s on anything you truly don’t want damaged at least every five years, or after any serious evidence of a lightning strike, power surge or overvoltage. (If you’re able, open it up and remove the active components, then use it as a plain old switched plug strip.)

So I guess this means that a surge protector is a waste of money? Most electronic appliances don’t have “superior surge protection”, not intentionally designed in; sure, they might have a small MOV or two (much smaller than those in surge protectors) but other than that they may have a line filter (which is actually mainly to suppress noise generated internally), which will only be effective against small spikes (there is an inductor or two, but I doubt it protects much given its size and inductance); a lot of the apparent protection is probably simply due to the input filter capacitor, which will absorb energy during a spike, and then there are all of the exploding electronic ballasts that people complain about (well, as I have seen elsewhere, as a reason to use older magnetic ballasts, which don’t really care about brief surges).

By “whole house protector” I guess you mean SPDs like these: http://www.hagergroup.ae/energy-distribution/protection-devices/surge-protective-devices/983.htm

Mine’s only a few weeks old and it’s too young to smoke.