Describe dog loyalty

[Mesquite-oh]

I have been reading about different dog breeds and their personality characteristics and it is not unusual for the description to contain something like "This breed is known for their intense loyalty." Since it is such a common descriptor with dogs, help me understand what exactly is meant by dog loyalty. If you have examples of a dog's disloyalty, or how a dog is more loyal compared to other animals, that would be great too!

[SharkB8]

I would say a dog that loves you unconditionally. Some members of certain dog breeds can take you or leave you, others, more often than not have the trait to cling to you.

I grew up with two chow chows. They liked me and probably would tear up anyone who bothered me, but would be just as satisfied without me, I'd think. Chows are pretty independent.

I've had a German shepherd for almost 7 years now and he is hyperaware of where I am and what I'm doing at all times. He always has an eye on me. If three other people with a bucket of tennis balls and six sides of beef showed up and I started walking away, I'm pretty sure, albeit somewhat reluctantly, he'd follow me. He really is like my shadow and I hear this from a lot of other GSD owners.

[Northern Piper]

I've always understood it in terms of how strongly a particular breed of dog is likely to bond with the humans it lives with, which can come into play when there's a change in a dog's owners.

I've heard, purely anecdotally, that shih tzu are very easy to transfer from one family to another - that they're very agreeable little dogs that are comfortable moving about, provided they get properly fed and groomed. So that might be interpreted as ranking low on the "loyalty" scale (although I'm a bit sceptical of using that concept to describe a dog's behavour). Similarly, we have a basenji, a breed which is often compared to cats. She's very agreeable and affectionate to us, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if Mrs Piper and I were wiped out by a meteor strike while out on a walk, the basenji would just sort of shrug and say, "Oh well - they were nice to know."

On the other hand, I've always heard (and it's my personal experience) that dachshunds are a very "loyal" dogs - they bond very closely with their families and do not take well to being transferred to another family.

Another way to interpret loyalty is how a breed ranks in protecting its family. Again, dachshunds can be extremely territorial and aggressive in protecting their families, which considering their size and cuteness factor, is a bit surprising to people who aren't familiar with the breed. That protective instinct may also be interpreted as ranking high on the loyalty scale.

For example, one of our mini-dachshunds once attacked a St. Bernard that was coming up behind us when we were out on a walk. None of us were aware of the St Bernard until our dachsie went running back and leapt for its throat. He obviously saw it as his duty to defend us from this dog that was surreptitiously following us.

All IMHO, of course.

[AuntiePam]

This Wiki article tells about an Akita in Japan who became a national symbol because of his loyalty to his master.

Hachiko used to meet his owner, a professor, every day at the train station. The professor died at work and Hachiko never saw him again, but for ten years, Hachiko went to the train station every day looking for him. The stuff of legend! Or force of habit. I like the legend better.

Our Boomer (Lab mix) loved everyone. My husband wouldn't like to hear this, but I think we could have sent him home with somebody else and Boomer wouldn't have looked back. He was protective though, and once took on another bigger dog who got too close to us one day when we were on a walk.

[Dangerosa]

Originally Posted by Northern Piper

Another way to interpret loyalty is how a breed ranks in protecting its family. Again, dachshunds can be extremely territorial and aggressive in protecting their families, which considering their size and cuteness factor, is a bit surprising to people who aren't familiar with the breed. That protective instinct may also be interpreted as ranking high on the loyalty scale.

Scotties have this going for them too - if you consider this an attractive trait in dogs. Sometimes this means that they can be wonderful companions for a person - if that person never has company or lets anyone into the house not part of the dog's pack.

[StGermain]

My childhood dog was an afghan hound. He wasn't the family's dog, he was mine. When he moved and the dog had to be boarded at a kennel, he stopped eating. Totally. I was 13 years old and had to live in the house the was under renovation with the dog while the rest of the family stayed at a hotel, because he wouldn't eat when I wasn't there. Later, as I got older, if I was going to be away over night, they'd play a tape of my voice on the other side of a closed door, so he'd settle down and eat.

My next dog was a doberman cross. My sister said she'd sleep on my bed all day long, not interacting with anyone else. When I turned onto our street, 3 blocks from the house, she'd start to jump and bark and was just thrilled I was home.

I generally have had rescued dogs, and I think they bond more closely, because they're afraid to let you out of their sight.

StG

[John DiFool]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Our Boomer (Lab mix) loved everyone. My husband wouldn't like to hear this, but I think we could have sent him home with somebody else and Boomer wouldn't have looked back. He was protective though, and once took on another bigger dog who got too close to us one day when we were on a walk.

My black lab and I were inseperable. He would almost always eschew interaction with other members of my family when I wasn't home, preferring to wait in a chair in front of a big picture window which overlooked the driveway, waiting for me to come home.

[Missy2U]

Originally Posted by SharkB8

I've had a German shepherd for almost 7 years now and he is hyperaware of where I am and what I'm doing at all times. He always has an eye on me. If three other people with a bucket of tennis balls and six sides of beef showed up and I started walking away, I'm pretty sure, albeit somewhat reluctantly, he'd follow me. He really is like my shadow and I hear this from a lot of other GSD owners.

Mine too. Add in the fact that he was a rescue dog, he doesn't stray far from "Mommy". StGermain hit it on the head about rescue dogs. Once my husband goes to bed at night, I'd better make sure I have everything I need for the rest of the evening on the side table next to the couch - my 125 pound dog sits in my lap in the evenings. And does he SNORE...

[Scarlett67]

The late great springer spaniel Miss Emily Kimberly (tm) was Mr. S's dog, all the way. I was just another of his minions. She liked me okay, but if he was around she was his shadow. When he was at work, she moped by the door. Sometimes I would take her along to go out and about, and often we'd end up waiting for him, sitting on the grass at the edge of the parking lot, around quitting time. She quickly learned to watch the doors as people came out:

<ears perk up, gaze turns intense> Is that him? No . . .
<perk> How about that guy? No . . .
<perk> How about that guy? No . . .
<perk> Maybe it's this one, kinda looks like him . . . No . . .
<perk> How about that guy? No . . .
<perk> How about that guy? <looks closer> Could it be? <butt starts wiggling> It is!

And I'd let her loose (traffic permitting) and she'd wiggle her way over to him, wiggling so much she could hardly make a straight line.

I never got a greeting like that from her, ever. When I was gone overnight or for a few days, Mr. S saw no sign that she noticed. And you should have seen the ADORING gazes she would give him.

She seemed to get more this way after her dog buddy and sleeping partner B.J. died suddenly; she needed a new buddy and Mr. S was IT. We came to see her the day after B.J. died (she wasn't living with us at the time, long story), and she pretty much tried to climb down Mr. S's shirt, and her eyes were very watery. Can't tell me she didn't miss her buddy B.J.

------
Our current dogs (also springers) are loving and loyal, but not quite so crazy attached like Emily. They're homebodies and don't like car rides, though (puppy carsickness; they got over the sickness, but the association with cars seems to have stuck). Dottie seems to prefer me slightly, but otherwise as long as they have SOMEBODY, they're copacetic.

[TWDuke]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

This Wiki article tells about an Akita in Japan who became a national symbol because of his loyalty to his master.

Greyfriars Bobby (Skye terrier) became a similar symbol in Scotland.

Our Boomer (Lab mix) loved everyone. My husband wouldn't like to hear this, but I think we could have sent him home with somebody else and Boomer wouldn't have looked back. He was protective though, and once took on another bigger dog who got too close to us one day when we were on a walk.

I've heard Australian shepherds described as velcro dogs for sticking to their people, but there's one in this room who would gladly jump into your car if there was a glimmer of a chance you might take him somewhere. When you kicked him out, he'd just look for the next ride.

[bobot]

If you raise a dog, that dog would literally die for you. If you kick your dog across the floor, the dog will crawl back to you and try to lick your hand. That's dog loyalty. (Not that I endorse kicking dogs, just making a point)

[WhyNot]

I agree with Northern Piper. "Loyalty", like so many traits, can be a positive or a negative, based on nothing more than the circumstances the dog finds herself in and the temperment of the owner. Basically, it means a dog who strongly prefers to be with a single specific person or very small group of people. If you're looking for an intense personal relationship with a creature who apparently adores you beyond all reason, that's a good thing. If you're looking for a watch dog or guard dog (not the same thing - watch dogs bark, guard dogs bark and then attack), that's a great thing, because anyone outside the "pack" (usually family, sometimes uniform) will automatically be suspect. If you go away on vacation a lot, if you're elderly and expect to outlive the animal, if you don't take obedience classes to control your dog or like to entertain people at your home, it can be cruel or even dangerous.

[Katriona]

Originally Posted by Scarlett67

The late great springer spaniel Miss Emily Kimberly (tm) was Mr. S's dog, all the way. I was just another of his minions. She liked me okay, but if he was around she was his shadow. When he was at work, she moped by the door. Sometimes I would take her along to go out and about, and often we'd end up waiting for him, sitting on the grass at the edge of the parking lot, around quitting time. She quickly learned to watch the doors as people came out:

Our late, great, Mojo-dog (Beagle/Corgi) was like that. If I got home before DH, he'd wait until he was sure DH wasn't behind me before he'd greet me and would park himself by the door until DH did get home. I always described it as it's not so much that he was DH's dog, it was that DH was his boy!

[cowgirl]

My dog (rescue pit bull) is loyal but he is kind of a slut about it. He always follows me from room to room, and my boyfriend (and our new dog) to a slightly lesser extent (he's not happy if everyone isn't together). He is always completely devoted to his pack. However, he is not discerning - his "pack" consists of everyone who happens to be in his immediate company at the moment (inc. mailmen, strangers at the park, and, presumably, thieves breaking into our house). Given the opportunity he will climb into the lap of a stranger as readily as he'll climb into mine.

The only time he is ever out of my sight while I'm at home is if the pack members are in different rooms. This bothers him, so he goes back and forth between us, or he hangs out somewhere in the middle of the house, looking worried.

So overall I'd say he's very loyal to his pack, but unlike that Akita and others like it, he's very flexible in terms of who's in the club.

[Suse]

Our Newf seems to have attached himself to my son first and most particularly, then to my daughter, my husband and I. He isn't aggressive with strangers but is worried when someone he doesn't know comes to the house; he will hide behind one of us but then is easily won over with petting. He was a rescue dog.

Our terrier mix was ours from about 5 months of age. She fell in love with my husband the first day and adores him without reservation. The rest of us are okay, but we're not Daddy.

Neither of them will allow any family members to hug or kiss each other in their presence without trying to get a share of the lovin'. There's nothing like giving my husband a hug and feeling a big nose shoving its way past my leg so he can get some petting too.

[Stoid]

Golden Retrievers are complete sluts. They adore you in the most sloppy manner imaginable, utter devotion. Thing is, they treat pretty much anyone and everyone exactly the same way.

Which certainly makes them easy to place as rescues, that's the good part.

I was so touched when my old Golden was out on a photo shoot and the crew walked her a fair distance away from me when she looked back at me with some longing and a smidge of distress. Normally she wouldn't have thought twice about it.

[FallenAngel]

My recently passed away Rott/Lab Bitz was very loyal to me and my wife, but it was evident that she was MINE. She listened to and enjoyed the company of my wife, and was great with anyone she met as long as I was cool with them, but anyone who saw Bitz in a group of people could definitely tell who her person was. When we'd go to the dog park, she'd make the rounds and come back over just to check on me every two or three minutes and then go back to whoever she was hanging around with.

Our Bulldog Sydney, is very much the same way, but it's obvious that she's 100 percent bonded to my wife. I usually feed her. I do most her maintenance and upkeep, but that dog absolutely worships the ground my wife walks on. The rest of the world, including myself, is all fine and dandy, but we're obviously second fiddle compared to her mum.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Stoid

Golden Retrievers are complete sluts. They adore you in the most sloppy manner imaginable, utter devotion. Thing is, they treat pretty much anyone and everyone exactly the same way.

Yeah, our Golden breeder is the same way. She'll lean right into anybody to get some love, which makes her great to take on school visits. However she does have her favorites. My wife, me, and one of our neighbors. When she sees someone she really loves after a separation she'll squeak and go crazy with love.

Our border collie/cocker mix, on the other hand, is totally devoted to my wife, because she works at home. I get up first, and he follows me into the kitchen for breakfast, after which he'll lay at the door to the hall waiting to get back near her. He is 15 now, but still drags himself after her all day. When we leave he spends his time at the door. He will eventually follow me if she is gone on a trip for a while. He does come for food and walks, though.

[Mesquite-oh]

So putting things together, dog loyalty can be described as a bond or attachment as evidenced by wanting to be in close proximity to their owner, or showing a special bond with one owner, being selective with affection to their owner, or wanting to protect their owner. I am not sure that I would want a super loyal dog that would follow me around from room to room or always be watching me. That would kinda me feel uncomfortable if I wasn't able to pay attention to him at that moment.

[Jeff Lichtman]

Tribute to the Dog

[TastesLikeBurning]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

This Wiki article tells about an Akita in Japan who became a national symbol because of his loyalty to his master.

Hachiko used to meet his owner, a professor, every day at the train station. The professor died at work and Hachiko never saw him again, but for ten years, Hachiko went to the train station every day looking for him. The stuff of legend! Or force of habit. I like the legend better.

Our Boomer (Lab mix) loved everyone. My husband wouldn't like to hear this, but I think we could have sent him home with somebody else and Boomer wouldn't have looked back. He was protective though, and once took on another bigger dog who got too close to us one day when we were on a walk.

Here's a couple of pics of the statue in his honour which I took while visiting Shibuya a couple of years ago;

Hachiko 1

Hachiko 2

[Barrels]

Originally Posted by TWDuke

I've heard Australian shepherds described as velcro dogs for sticking to their people, but there's one in this room who would gladly jump into your car if there was a glimmer of a chance you might take him somewhere. When you kicked him out, he'd just look for the next ride.

My older red (aussie) girl is "Velcro" to an extreme. Her nickname is Barnacle. I am her god, my husband is one of the lesser minions. This dog has to be locked out of the bathroom when I take my shower otherwise I end up with a wet dog staring up at me while I rinse the shampoo from my hair. The biggest problem we have with this is that Dingo has to be watched like a hawk with people around and now we've resorted to kenneling her when we have guests because if someone walks towards me she is likely to bite them. To be honest she is very annoying at times but it a small price to pay for unconditional love.

[Barrels]

Forgot to add and ran out of time to edit....

My husband and I have an ongoing conversation about what would happen if we had kids. Either Dingo would love the baby because it was birthed by her god or I would get to use the phrase "Dingo ate my baby" and mean it.

[Stoid]

Barrels: I'm not looking to rain on your parade, but if your dog is likely to bite someone who comes near you, you are not loved, you are owned, and you are not owned by a dog that looks up to you as its leader, you are owned by a dog that that thinks it leads and and therefore owns you. That's just basic dog psychology there. No dog that genuinely viewed you as its leader would dare insert itself unasked between you and anything you welcomed, whether it was a hug or a bowl of popcorn. That he thinks he has the right to impose himself between you and someone who is your friend says very bad things. And does NOT bode well for you having children!

I strongly urge you to seek professional help in straightening out these relationships, because the longer she goes on acting this way (kenneling doesn't change how she thinks about it, it just controls her actions) the more entrenched and severe it will become.

[Scarlett67]

Yeah, I have to admit I was more than a little disturbed by that too. If the owner is truly alpha, then she should be able to correct aggressive behavior like that. If kenneling is the only "solution," then Houston, we have have a problem.

[Dogzilla]

I have two Boston terrorists. The one I raised from puppyhood is a velcro girl and does not leave my side. She likes other people petting her and such, but when I leave her at a friend's house to travel, they say she just lays on her bed in the sunbeam and acts "depressed." When I go over there to pick her up, she becomes her typical spring-loaded self again. She's perfectly friendly toward other humans but I am her human. She also gets a little jealous when I pet the other dog or the cat.

The other BT was rescued from being a stud dog at a puppy mill. If he loses track of where I am -- say I go outside to work in the yard -- he will sit in the window and howl, which sounds like he's choking on broken glass. (It's funny.) Once I was getting ready to go out to dinner and left the dogs downstairs while I went upstairs to shower. When I got out of the shower, I heard the most awful racket. Rescue Dog started howling because he thought I'd left him and he couldn't find me and that got Spring-Loaded Dog going... The sang a duet with me giggling at the top of the stairs, listening to them. Finally I said, "RESCUE DOG! I'm right here."

He stopped mid-howl, "OwwwwooOO-- oh. Sorry. Thought you left."

Yes, he has some separation anxiety issues but he does not howl nearly as much as he used to.

[thefuturemrsdepp]

I've been fortunate to have had several dogs in my life and they all taught me something. The current beastie is a St. Bernard mix. The previous two were lab mixes and the one before that was a Mal-mutt. All were rescues.
My female Lab mix was completely devoted to me, but not in an annoying velcro way. She wanted to know where I was, and would howl if I left the house sometimes. However, she would eat at the kennel and interact with strangers in a friendly way.
The male Lab could be bought for a biscuit.
The Mal-mutt was devoted -- no, obsessed -- with my father. We were all lesser lights compared to HIM. When my father went to the hospital once, the dog was inconsolable. We had to take her in the car to the hospital and park near the exit so he could go out visit. She wouldn't eat and paced the whole week. It was miserable to watch.
The Saint I've only had a couple of months so it's hard to say how "loyal" he will be. I do know he absolutely loves the warm bed(s) I provide and good food I put out, which is a far cry from the neglect he knew before.

[Sonnenstrahl]

Originally Posted by Northern Piper

I've heard, purely anecdotally, that shih tzu are very easy to transfer from one family to another - that they're very agreeable little dogs that are comfortable moving about, provided they get properly fed and groomed. So that might be interpreted as ranking low on the "loyalty" scale (although I'm a bit sceptical of using that concept to describe a dog's behavour).

That's interesting. My family had a shih tzu when I was young, and she was beyond loyal to our family - she was loyal almost exclusively to my mother. I really think she would have been a Greyfriars Bobby type, pining away until she died, if my mother had died or something.

My mother was co-dependent, too, which made it worse (I think she wanted a second child but couldn't have one, so the dog filled a gap). But while it sounds nice to have a dog that simply adores you and no one else in the world, it's pretty stressful. Mum couldn't leave her to go on holidays, and worried a bit about what would happen if she had to go into hospital. (She had health problems and was at home much of the time, hence the dog bonding to her.)

Anyway, er, the point of that was just to say that I thought shih tzus were considered high on the loyalty scale! Guess we just got the neurotic one. Or maybe you got an unusually social one.

[Fetchund]

Careful - "very loyal breed" can be shorthand for "aggressive to strangers/possesive of human" from a breeder trying to put a good spin on their breed.

[HumanMonkeyGod]

I had a dog, a pavement special from the shelter part collie-lab-chow-I don't know what, but he became my shadow. If I got up to walk across a room even he'd be watching in case maybe I was leaving the room, which would naturally mean he had to follow.
I had him for about 4 years before circumstances led to me emigrating and I had to leave him. Fortunately my parents were happy to adopt him. Apparently for the first three weeks after I left he would only leave the front-door for food and toilet business... eventually he accepted I wasn't coming back and became my father's new shadow. It still tears me up to think of him just lying and waiting for me

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Stoid

Barrels: I'm not looking to rain on your parade, but if your dog is likely to bite someone who comes near you, you are not loved, you are owned, and you are not owned by a dog that looks up to you as its leader, you are owned by a dog that that thinks it leads and and therefore owns you. That's just basic dog psychology there. No dog that genuinely viewed you as its leader would dare insert itself unasked between you and anything you welcomed, whether it was a hug or a bowl of popcorn. That he thinks he has the right to impose himself between you and someone who is your friend says very bad things. And does NOT bode well for you having children!

Yeah, this reminds me of all those owners on Dog Whisperer or It's Me or the Dog who say "But Puppykins wuvs and needs me" but seem oblivious to the fact that if the dog really respected them, they wouldn't be pushing boundaries (biting, etc.). And of course, it's a happy dog who knows his place (which should be at the bottom of the hierarchy).

[Sunrazor]

My uncle, a retired veterinarian, writes books about dogs for Barron's Publishing. He describes dogs on a "loyalty" scale that has utterly independent on one end and slavishly devoted on the other. In that context, loyalty means devotion to and dependence upon a person or family (the dog's "pack"). This is important because it gives one a clue about the dog's obedience of your commands and summonses, which can affect the dog's and your safety. In this case, the opposite of "loyal" isn't "disloyal", but "independent".

[Stoid]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slit

Yeah, this reminds me of all those owners on Dog Whisperer or It's Me or the Dog who say "But Puppykins wuvs and needs me" but seem oblivious to the fact that if the dog really respected them, they wouldn't be pushing boundaries (biting, etc.). And of course, it's a happy dog who knows his place (which should be at the bottom of the hierarchy).

What most people don't realize is that it's very stressful to lead the pack and dogs don't like it - they just do it because somebody has to!

[BoBettie]

Very interesting question- here's how I describe loyalty by example.

I had to rehome my first Shar-pei after a divorce. I was completely heartbroken over it, but when the people who adopted him drove away with him in their car, he never looked back and was just as happy to be with them as he had been with me. He was like "meh, whatever. I hope they have food." He was always glad to see me, but was just as glad to see anyone else and just sort of like "huh...don't really care. Is someone feeding me?"

My terrier that I adopted (Foster), is the polar opposite. He is near me at all times. He wants to snuggle constantly, he misses me when I'm away, and sometimes when I get home from work he's so excited that he just yipes out loud. I really don't know if he would live if I were to disappear off the earth. He's happy with my husband, but when I'm gone he simply waits and waits for me to return. To me, that's a loyal dog. There for you, by your side in good and bad.

[JFLuvly]

This kinda says it all...

If you can start the day without caffeine,
If you can get going without pep pills,
If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any time.

If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can ignore a friend's limited education and never correct him,
If you can resist treating a rich friend better than an poor friend,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no
prejudice against creed, color, religion or politics,
THEN, my friend, you are almost as good as your dog

[Miss Violaceous]

We have two german shepherds. The one who is my husband's will sit by the bathroom door when he's in there, then come over to me and whine about him not being there. He's done this since the first day we brought him home, before we even intended to keep him (my husband drove him home and there was something of an instant bond).

The one who is mine... when I have her in the car and have to get out for some reason, will watch VERY INTENTLY the whole time I am gone. Once when I had a flat tire she managed to seriously creep out the roadside assistance guy. She's never aggressive to people, but it's a very intense stare. When I go on vacation, she spends most of her time sleeping by the front door, lying across the threshold. She eats, but insists on staying by the door unless you drag her away. When my dad took care of her while I was gone for a weekend, he said that she would just lie there all day, and when he'd say to her "Wanna go for a walk? Come on, let's go for a walk!" she'd just raise her head off the floor, look at him, sigh, and put her head back down.

[starwarsfreek42]

When my ex husband and I were still together he worked out of town many weeks and I worked mornings. My dalmatian would sit at the door from the time I left until I got home, whining and whining until he was hoarse. My next door neighbor would walk her two dogs around 10 and hear him crying as they went by, so sometimes she'd come up and sit on my porch and talk to him through the door. It didn't do any good. He's much better now that he knows I'll always come home, but if I'm half an hour late he'll freak out, especially if it's stormy out.

I know a girl who, after a breakup, moved half a state away. Her dog ran away a week after arriving at their new home, and she was devastated to have lost her girlfriend and her dog at the same time. She got a phone call from her ex a week later... the dog had turned up at her old house, a couple hundred miles away! Her ex didn't even know the dog was missing, but I guess she was the favorite.

[River Hippie]

Originally Posted by Mesquite-oh

...If you have examples of a dog's disloyalty,

As a kid I knew some people that had a wire haired terrier. We'd get to wrestling around and throwing each other in the lake and stuff and the dog would "attack" (bark at and lightly nip) whoever was getting the worst of it or appeared to be losing. Didn't matter who, the dog was going to be on the winning side.

[Barrels]

Just to clarify for everyone who thinks I am "one of those people". I am very strong in the alpha roll in our house/pack. I understand how doggy brains work and I get it. I work with a professional trainer who is also the head of the rescue group I foster for, in our state. I am foster home for ARPH (Aussie Rescue) and have had over 20 foster dogs in the last 2.5 years. I often have some of the more difficult dogs to manage in my house because I am very strong on “you have to earn it” method of training.

Dingo is a special case and not what you would call a normal dog, Dingo is an extreme dog. She understands that I am in charge and does not question it, however she has an almost split personality when it comes to strangers. She will love on them and be happy to see them when we are off the property. She is also happy to have people around in the house as long as they aren't moving around. If she starts to act in the wrong way I can tell her to knock it off and she will quit. She is now 9 years old and is starting to loose her sight, which doesn’t help the situation. As a smart and responsible dog owner I choose to keep my dog safe and visitors safe by kenneling her while vistors are around.

It’s easy to “diagnose” someone else’s problems over the internet, but it’s hard to do it correctly.

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Barrels

To be honest she is very annoying at times but it a small price to pay for unconditional love.

To be fair, you did say this as well, making it sound like you enjoy having a dog like this. But it doesn't sound like unconditional love to me. More like she sets the rules and you guys acquiesce.

[Barrels]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slit

To be fair, you did say this as well, making it sound like you enjoy having a dog like this. But it doesn't sound like unconditional love to me. More like she sets the rules and you guys acquiesce.

Yes sometimes she can be annoying, it doesn't mean that I don't correct her when she is being annoying.

I would really like to know how I’ve made it sound like she has set any of the rules? I believe that I gave a few of my observations on dog loyalty and highlighted that my dog can be extreme in her affection for me. I didn't go into my training philosophies or say that I was having problems managing my dog. I have had her since she was 6 years old. She came to me with a whole host of issues. We have worked through many of them. She is still a work in progress and I've come to terms with the idea that she is never going to be the ideal dog. But I love her and am willing to work with what I have.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike "The Dog Whisperer", it seems that people can watch a few episodes and suddenly become so well versed in the language of dogs that they can "fix" any dog by pulling out the "be the Alpha dog" line. Again each dog is different and while I do agree that many problems are caused by owners who do not understand their dogs, I can guarantee that is not the case in this instance.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Barrels

I would really like to know how I’ve made it sound like she has set any of the rules

You made it sound that way to me by writing: "The biggest problem we have with this is that Dingo has to be watched like a hawk with people around and now we've resorted to kenneling her when we have guests because if someone walks towards me she is likely to bite them."

That reads to me like a dog who bites, who needs constant supervision around other people and who cannot take your correction for very long, if at all, and that she must be crated to be under tolerable control. If that's not the case, then you have nothing to worry about with your dog. In that case it was just your writing which was misleading.

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Barrels

Yes sometimes she can be annoying, it doesn't mean that I don't correct her when she is being annoying.

I would really like to know how I’ve made it sound like she has set any of the rules?

Well, the parts about how she's okay with people in the house as long as they're not moving. That just sounds odd. She's the dog. It shouldn't matter what she's okay with--they're your guests, not hers.

[Barrels]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

You made it sound that way to me by writing: "The biggest problem we have with this is that Dingo has to be watched like a hawk with people around and now we've resorted to kenneling her when we have guests because if someone walks towards me she is likely to bite them."

That reads to me like a dog who bites, who needs constant supervision around other people and who cannot take your correction for very long, if at all, and that she must be crated to be under tolerable control. If that's not the case, then you have nothing to worry about with your dog. In that case it was just your writing which was misleading.

Yes she is a dog who could bite and because of that if I have guests over I do feel she needs constant supervision. This in general isn't practical so I kennel her in another room when we have company. Again this has nothing to do with her thinking that she is placed over me in the pack. It's a combination of her breed, her personality, her failing eyesight and quite possibly her mental health.

I think this thread has been derailed far enough. If you would like to talk more about this subject please feel free to PM me.