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  #1  
Old 04-21-2009, 02:32 PM
Quintas Quintas is offline
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Is a bottle of wine per night gonna destroy my liver?

I usually drink 1 bottle of wine per night. It doesn't get me drunk or anything, but that is probably just because I have a high tolerance now. I'm 36, i'm very healthy,I eat right, exercise alot etc. But I was thinking i've had a 1 bottle per night wine habit since I was in my early 20's at least. Am I gonna destroy my liver?

I dont want to turn this into a debate on whether I am or am not an alcoholic. I just want to know if this is an extreme amount and if I'm damaging my body.

Last edited by Quintas; 04-21-2009 at 02:32 PM..
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2009, 02:39 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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I'm very interested in the answer to this question. I've tried to research it (close friend, similar habit) and all the sources seem to agree that it's too much, but not on what range of effects it might have. I'd welcome an expert opinion.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:57 PM
dracoi dracoi is offline
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I don't have a cite, but the numbers I've seen from studies say that up to 1 drink for a typical woman or 2 drinks for a typical man may even be healthy, but anything more than that has more detrimental effects than positive. (Those are per day)

The usual rule of thumb is that 5 ounces of wine is 1 drink. Most wine bottles are 750 ml (25 oz), or about 5 drinks. Even if you have wine with lower than normal alcohol, that's well in excess of the healthy amount.

Like Dr. Drake, I don't know how well this correlates to specific side effects like liver damage. It may partly depend on whether you're downing the bottle at dinner or spreading it out over five or six hours.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:04 PM
pkbites pkbites is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quintas View Post
I usually drink 1 bottle of wine per night. It doesn't get me drunk or anything, but that is probably just because I have a high tolerance now. I'm 36, i'm very healthy,I eat right, exercise alot etc. But I was thinking i've had a 1 bottle per night wine habit since I was in my early 20's at least. Am I gonna destroy my liver?

I dont want to turn this into a debate on whether I am or am not an alcoholic. I just want to know if this is an extreme amount and if I'm damaging my body.
We need more info:

*how much do you weigh?
*By "bottle" of wine do you mean a 750ml bottle, a liter, a 1.5 liter, a 3 liter, 5 liter, etc.?
*Whats the proof of the wine?

Let's do some booze math: if you're drinking a 750ml bottle of 20 proof white zinfandel, that's the alcohol equivalent of four 12 ounce bottles of regular beer. Depending on your weight that may not be enough to get you drunk and won't be as bad for you as drinking 1.5 liters of 30 proof wine.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:11 PM
Quintas Quintas is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
We need more info:

*how much do you weigh?
*By "bottle" of wine do you mean a 750ml bottle, a liter, a 1.5 liter, a 3 liter, 5 liter, etc.?
*Whats the proof of the wine?

Let's do some booze math: if you're drinking a 750ml bottle of 20 proof white zinfandel, that's the alcohol equivalent of four 12 ounce bottles of regular beer. Depending on your weight that may not be enough to get you drunk and won't be as bad for you as drinking 1.5 liters of 30 proof wine.
I'm 6'1". I weigh 185-190 pounds. Its a 750ml bottle of typical red wine. (Merlot, Cab.) etc.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:17 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Well, you may be an alcoholic, but you've got class.

Anecdotal: my brother has consumed a similar amount of red wine more or less every day since he was about 25, and he was as healthy as a horse at his last physical.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Happy Poster Happy Poster is offline
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No reason to worry, although it will put you at higher risk of liver damage it's a reasonably negligible risk.

Probably worse for your belly in all honesty.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:01 PM
MPB in Salt Lake MPB in Salt Lake is offline
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There are many countries in the world where this is pretty standard drinking behavior for adults, and some of these countries (Spain, Italy,Portugal) have longer average life spans than here in the USA.......

Of course, there are many factors at work besides the wine (diet, health care) but one bottle of wine per day is not excessive to tens of millions of people living today.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:23 PM
brewha brewha is offline
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Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
Well, you may be an alcoholic, but you've got class.

Anecdotal: my brother has consumed a similar amount of red wine more or less every day since he was about 25, and he was as healthy as a horse at his last physical.

How old is he now? It's really not very much info if he's 26.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:40 PM
pkbites pkbites is online now
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Originally Posted by Quintas View Post
I'm 6'1". I weigh 185-190 pounds. Its a 750ml bottle of typical red wine. (Merlot, Cab.) etc.
750ml=a little over 2 cans of beer (ounce wise. Alcohol wise depends on the wines strength)

Even if you're wine is on the high end of proof, my estimate is you're consuming no more than the alcohol equivalent of 6-7 cans of regular beer. And that's MAX. It could be more like the equivalent of 4-5 cans of beer.

If 7 cans of beer a day were truly a danger the majority of us in Wisconsin would be on transplant lists!
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  #11  
Old 04-21-2009, 05:31 PM
sailor sailor is offline
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Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake View Post
There are many countries in the world where this is pretty standard drinking behavior for adults, and some of these countries (Spain, Italy,Portugal) have longer average life spans than here in the USA.......

Of course, there are many factors at work besides the wine (diet, health care) but one bottle of wine per day is not excessive to tens of millions of people living today.
I'd like to see a cite that people in Spain drink a bottle of wine a day. Mostly because someone must be drinking my allowance.

In fact people in Spain might have a glass or two of wine with their meals but drinking a bottle of wine would be exceptional. And those people DO tend to have health problems. Of course, when they are 30 they say "so far so good", and think it will last forever. I see people who are not even 60 in bad health and alcohol and tobacco *usually* have a lot to do with it.

Last edited by sailor; 04-21-2009 at 05:31 PM..
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2009, 05:32 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Of course, whenever you see studies that 1-2 drinks per day is optimal, you've got to remember that that's just an average. Some people can't even drink that much, and some can drink a lot more. It'd be hard enough for a doctor examining you directly to know what amount is OK for you specifically; it's pretty much impossible for us on a message board.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Happy Poster Happy Poster is offline
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Let's see

11.7 litres per capita of alcohol per year in Spain

equates to 32 ml of alcohol per day in Spain per capita [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/fo...ption-current]

equates to 267ml of 12% wine per person per capital per day in spain, which is over 1/3 of a bottle.

Double that for luck and we can presume the median Spanish drinker drinks about 2/3 of a bottle per day.
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2009, 05:51 PM
R. P. McMurphy R. P. McMurphy is offline
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As I expected, the responses come down to YRMV (your results may vary).

I, like Dr. Drake and you, are interested in a factual answer but the variables may make that impossible. We need some actuarial data. Things like smoking, job stress and where you live might influence the data.

I had an aunt that was a very heavy smoker all of her adult life yet lived well beyond what the actuarial tables would have predicted (late 80's). Likewise, I had a friend that smoked and died in her 20's from lung cancer. There are undoubtedly similar anecdotes about people that consume alcohol.

TIFWIW, but I've heard that alcoholism (and I'm not accusing you of being an alcoholic) is progressive. A bottle of wine in the 30's that is having no seemingly ill effect, can turn into 2 bottles of wine in the 50's that is still seemingly having no ill effects but is, in fact, causing a lot of physical harm. On the other hand, there are people that lived to be 100 who drank whiskey every day and swore by it.

Sorry for being unspecific but I'm skeptical that the question can be answered. We need some actuarial statistics.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:54 PM
samclem samclem is online now
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Qadgop answered something akin to this question within the last year(I think). I personally tend to drink a bottle of red wine over the course of an evening(5 hours), and wondered the same thing. I don't want to answer for him as I may have misremembered. I'll send him a msg to respond to the thread.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:12 PM
Phlosphr Phlosphr is offline
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Here is one of the cites I believe Qadgop has directed us to in the past its from New England Journal of Medicine - on Alcohol Consumption Mortality in Middle aged US Population.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:18 PM
KarlGauss KarlGauss is offline
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In my opinion, there may be some misinformation posted in this thread. Specifically, and among other things, I believe that a bottle of wine consumed daily puts you at more than a "negligible" risk for liver disease.

First of all, though, I want to clarify that it doesn't matter whether alcohol is ingested as wine, spirits, or beer. Alcohol is alcohol. Second, there are other risk factors at play which may increase or decrease the likelihood of developing liver disease from alcohol. For example, people with the so-called "metabolic syndrome" (typically manifesting with mild obesity, high blood pressure, high blood fats, and "mild" diabetes) are at increased risk of liver disease even in the absence of alcohol. Add alcohol to the metabolic syndrome risk and the chance of liver disease goes up multiplicatively. Other factors which augment the toxic effect of alcohol on the liver include: occult (or overt) viral hepatitis, e.g. hep B or hep C, occult iron excess (the most common single gene disease in whites), . . . the list goes on.

Third, we must define 1 "unit" of alcohol (in order to compare apples with apples). On average, wine is about 10% alcohol (yes, some has more, some less - I'm just talking about averages). On average, beer is about 5% alcohol (in Canada), and on average, spirits are approximately 40% alcohol.

(it's easier to use grams for what follows. Remember that 1 ounce is about 28 grams).

So, 5 ounces of wine equals 140 grams of wine. If wine is 10% alcohol, then 140 grams of wine equals 14 grams of alcohol.

Ten ounces of beer equals 280 grams of beer. If beer is 5% alcohol, then 280 grams of beer equals 14 grams of alcohol.

One and a quarter ounces of spirits (a "shot") equals about 35 grams of spirits. If spirits average about 40% alcohol, then 35 grams of spirits equals 14 grams of alcohol.

In other words, a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, and a shot of spirits all contain about the same amount of alcohol. (It's very important to keep in mind that people who make and/or pour their own drinks will almost always have more than the above figures. A 'glass' of wine at home might be 8 ounces, not 5, and a 'shot' of rye poured in your own living room might be closer to 2 ounces than 1.)

In any case, empirically it is known that chronic* consumption of more than 60 to 70 grams of alcohol per day for a woman, and 70 to 80 grams per day for a man can be expected to lead to liver disease. (likelihood of about 50% for 20 or more years of drinking).

*chronic = at least 10 to 20 years

We also should keep in mind that alcohol does a lot of other 'bad' things besides rotting your liver. A few lesser known ones are:

breast cancer (in women) - for every 10 grams of alcohol ingested (about of a drink), a woman's chance of developing breast cancer goes up by 9%. So, five drinks a day, increases a woman's chance by almost 50%. Note that in Italy where alcohol consumption is fairly high, 11% of breast cancers are due to alcohol

cancer of the mouth, throat (pharynx), and swallowing tube (esophagus) - unlike the case for cardiovascular disease, where modest consumption of alcohol seems to confer some protection, even occasional and one-drink-per-day ingestion of alcohol are associated with a 12 and 37% increase respectively in the risk of cancer of the esophagus.

inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) - this is a very nasty illness which you don't want to get. It is considered to be one of the most painful conditions that someone can have (up there with kidney stones and labour). Pancreatitis has the potential for many complications, none of which are good news or very pleasant for the patient. It can also kill you. About 10% of chronic alcoholics will develop pancreatitis at some stage. In fact, anyone who goes out boozing places themselves at increased risk for pancreatitis, albeit just for a day or so. But consider someone who drinks every day. Their risk of pancreatitis will stay elevated.

I hope all this has been of interest to somebody.
-- KG

Last edited by KarlGauss; 04-21-2009 at 06:21 PM..
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:20 PM
MPB in Salt Lake MPB in Salt Lake is offline
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I'd like to see a cite that people in Spain drink a bottle of wine a day. Mostly because someone must be drinking my allowance.

In fact people in Spain might have a glass or two of wine with their meals but drinking a bottle of wine would be exceptional. And those people DO tend to have health problems. Of course, when they are 30 they say "so far so good", and think it will last forever. I see people who are not even 60 in bad health and alcohol and tobacco *usually* have a lot to do with it.
I have no way of finding cites for this, or if the cites even exist.......

I was just going on personal observations that I have made upon spending time in said countries.

Who knows, these observations were made on occasions when I was on vacation, so maybe I was just haging around in places that attracted heavy handed wine-o's, but it seemed to me that 3 or 4 glasses (which is about one bottle) was standard for many locals in the evening, spread out over several hours, usually with food.

Last edited by MPB in Salt Lake; 04-21-2009 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:23 PM
sailor sailor is offline
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Originally Posted by Angry Lurker View Post
Let's see

11.7 litres per capita of alcohol per year in Spain

equates to 32 ml of alcohol per day in Spain per capita [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/fo...ption-current]

equates to 267ml of 12% wine per person per capital per day in spain, which is over 1/3 of a bottle.

Double that for luck and we can presume the median Spanish drinker drinks about 2/3 of a bottle per day.
Where did you learn your math?
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:47 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
I hope all this has been of interest to somebody.
Well, I am interested, but I always did prefer objective data over misinformation.

Thanks, KG for the elegant summary.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:55 PM
Quintas Quintas is offline
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Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
In my opinion, there may be some misinformation posted in this thread. Specifically, and among other things, I believe that a bottle of wine consumed daily puts you at more than a "negligible" risk for liver disease.

First of all, though, I want to clarify that it doesn't matter whether alcohol is ingested as wine, spirits, or beer. Alcohol is alcohol. Second, there are other risk factors at play which may increase or decrease the likelihood of developing liver disease from alcohol. For example, people with the so-called "metabolic syndrome" (typically manifesting with mild obesity, high blood pressure, high blood fats, and "mild" diabetes) are at increased risk of liver disease even in the absence of alcohol. Add alcohol to the metabolic syndrome risk and the chance of liver disease goes up multiplicatively. Other factors which augment the toxic effect of alcohol on the liver include: occult (or overt) viral hepatitis, e.g. hep B or hep C, occult iron excess (the most common single gene disease in whites), . . . the list goes on.

Third, we must define 1 "unit" of alcohol (in order to compare apples with apples). On average, wine is about 10% alcohol (yes, some has more, some less - I'm just talking about averages). On average, beer is about 5% alcohol (in Canada), and on average, spirits are approximately 40% alcohol.

(it's easier to use grams for what follows. Remember that 1 ounce is about 28 grams).

So, 5 ounces of wine equals 140 grams of wine. If wine is 10% alcohol, then 140 grams of wine equals 14 grams of alcohol.

Ten ounces of beer equals 280 grams of beer. If beer is 5% alcohol, then 280 grams of beer equals 14 grams of alcohol.

One and a quarter ounces of spirits (a "shot") equals about 35 grams of spirits. If spirits average about 40% alcohol, then 35 grams of spirits equals 14 grams of alcohol.

In other words, a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, and a shot of spirits all contain about the same amount of alcohol. (It's very important to keep in mind that people who make and/or pour their own drinks will almost always have more than the above figures. A 'glass' of wine at home might be 8 ounces, not 5, and a 'shot' of rye poured in your own living room might be closer to 2 ounces than 1.)

In any case, empirically it is known that chronic* consumption of more than 60 to 70 grams of alcohol per day for a woman, and 70 to 80 grams per day for a man can be expected to lead to liver disease. (likelihood of about 50% for 20 or more years of drinking).

*chronic = at least 10 to 20 years

We also should keep in mind that alcohol does a lot of other 'bad' things besides rotting your liver. A few lesser known ones are:

breast cancer (in women) - for every 10 grams of alcohol ingested (about of a drink), a woman's chance of developing breast cancer goes up by 9%. So, five drinks a day, increases a woman's chance by almost 50%. Note that in Italy where alcohol consumption is fairly high, 11% of breast cancers are due to alcohol

cancer of the mouth, throat (pharynx), and swallowing tube (esophagus) - unlike the case for cardiovascular disease, where modest consumption of alcohol seems to confer some protection, even occasional and one-drink-per-day ingestion of alcohol are associated with a 12 and 37% increase respectively in the risk of cancer of the esophagus.

inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) - this is a very nasty illness which you don't want to get. It is considered to be one of the most painful conditions that someone can have (up there with kidney stones and labour). Pancreatitis has the potential for many complications, none of which are good news or very pleasant for the patient. It can also kill you. About 10% of chronic alcoholics will develop pancreatitis at some stage. In fact, anyone who goes out boozing places themselves at increased risk for pancreatitis, albeit just for a day or so. But consider someone who drinks every day. Their risk of pancreatitis will stay elevated.

I hope all this has been of interest to somebody.
-- KG
so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:57 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle.
You're certainly putting it at significant risk. It'd take a medical examination and some tests to determine if a certain level of damage was occurring at this time. Some folks can consume a big quantity of alcohol steadily and it doesn't cause much physical damage. Some dodge harm for a while, but eventually something in their physiology changes, and they start having more of a detrimental effect from alcohol. Some take damage early and often.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 04-21-2009 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:26 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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How old is he now? It's really not very much info if he's 26.
39. I was pretty sure he'd be in the early stages of cirrhosis by now but apparently not.

'Course, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:28 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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In other words, a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, and a shot of spirits all contain about the same amount of alcohol. (It's very important to keep in mind that people who make and/or pour their own drinks will almost always have more than the above figures. A 'glass' of wine at home might be 8 ounces, not 5, and a 'shot' of rye poured in your own living room might be closer to 2 ounces than 1.)
I've always heard a shot defined as 1 1/2 oz. Where did you get the 1 1/4 number from?
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:24 PM
HorseloverFat HorseloverFat is offline
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Alcoholic cirrhosis happens to 1 in 10 heavy drinkers after 10 years. Youre a heavy drinker. 1 in 10 is horrible odds.

Odds for cirrhosis get worse if you drink more than 40grams of pure alcohol a day. 10grams in a typical drink. A bottle of wine thats 750ml at 13% is roughly 7.7 drinks. Almost 8. So youre doing double what is considered the max right now.

I think that anyone who is drinking a bottle a night needs professional help, regardless of culture or health. Science doesnt care about whether your neighbor does it or whether your dad did it. This stinks of self-medication and serious mental health issues. Youre better off with medication that wont kill your liver.

Last edited by HorseloverFat; 04-21-2009 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:27 PM
HorseloverFat HorseloverFat is offline
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>but it seemed to me that 3 or 4 glasses (which is about one bottle) was standard for many locals in the evening

Try six or seven glasses. With a 13% wine, youre almost at 8 servings because of how alcohol dense it is.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:44 PM
ToeJam ToeJam is offline
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so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle.
Yeah. Kinda.
If you were my Parent, I'd be worried.
I mean, you're doing fine for now, but this is long term sorta issue for the next couple decades hopefully for ya. People's body's tend to change as they get older, and it starts to happen right in their 40s for bone density growth, metabolism changes and all that fun stuff.

So yeah in short, you're kinda being risky.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:27 AM
Busy Scissors Busy Scissors is offline
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A bottle every day is too much, mate. I'd say that was intuitively obvious, but if you're interested in quantifying it the NHS has a useful drink diary / unit calculator online. At 70 units per week, you're three times the recommended level for a man. (A unit is 10 mL of ethanol)

Do you have a partner who can share the load, so to speak? Once the bottle is opened it's easy to polish it off. Failing that, I'd be looking to skip the vin rouge entirely for a few days a week, or switch drinks so that you can consume less each day.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:44 AM
Happy Poster Happy Poster is offline
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I think that anyone who is drinking a bottle a night needs professional help, regardless of culture or health. Science doesnt care about whether your neighbor does it or whether your dad did it. This stinks of self-medication and serious mental health issues. Youre better off with medication that wont kill your liver.
Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps).
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:57 AM
Athena Athena is online now
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Originally Posted by HorseloverFat View Post
>but it seemed to me that 3 or 4 glasses (which is about one bottle) was standard for many locals in the evening

Try six or seven glasses. With a 13% wine, youre almost at 8 servings because of how alcohol dense it is.
Because all bartenders change the size of the pour based on alcohol level, right?

In actual practice, a bottle of wine has 4-6 glasses in it, depending on how big the wine glasses are. I don't know anyone who pours more or less wine based on the alcohol percent.

13% is probably the average alcohol percent in wine, if not a bit low. Most reds come in between 13.5 and 14.5, and I've seen bottles as high as 17% (to be truthful, I've only seen one of those, a crazy high alcohol Zinfandel.) But I've seen lots & lots of the big fruity wines that people are so gaga over nowadays weigh in at 15 & 16%.

Whites tend to run a little lower, but it's the rare white that goes below 10%, and most are in the 11-13% range.

Yes, I drink too much wine. But not as much as the OP
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:57 AM
HorseloverFat HorseloverFat is offline
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>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps).

Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:59 AM
HorseloverFat HorseloverFat is offline
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>I don't know anyone who pours more or less wine based on the alcohol percent.

The point here is simple: 10grams per drink is the average. A bottle of wine at 13% alcohol is 770 grams, so he's roughly drinking 7.7 drinks a night, not 3 or 4 as many are suggesting. The number of "drinks" is a useless metric. How many grams of alcohol is he consuming? 770? Yeah, thats a problem.

Last edited by HorseloverFat; 04-22-2009 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:03 AM
jtgain jtgain is offline
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I think that your question is like asking "I smoke two packs of cigarettes per day. Will I get lung cancer?" Nobody can really answer it. I think it is most obvious that you are greatly increasing your chances of having liver disease, but noone can give you a "yes" or "no" answer.

My unsolicited advice: Lay off of the sauce. You will feel much better.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:19 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is online now
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Originally Posted by HorseloverFat View Post
>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps).

Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable.
This post is a non sequitur. Angry Lurker was specifically talking about mental health issues, which you brought up in your earlier post.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:39 AM
Happy Poster Happy Poster is offline
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Originally Posted by HorseloverFat View Post
>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps).

Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable.
Some beliefs you could have in Russia would get you locked up indefinitely in USA. Some beliefs you could have in USA would get you indefinitely locked up in Russian.

Who is right?
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  #36  
Old 04-22-2009, 08:55 PM
HorseloverFat HorseloverFat is offline
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Science is right. Your local culture doesnt mean squat if youre killing your liver:

* A study which determined the risk level for developing cirrhosis in Australian men who drank alcohol found the risk increased significantly when alcohol intake exceeded 40 grams per day. The risk for women was determined to occur at a similar intake level. 40 gms/day (4 standard drinks) was concluded to be the safe maximum level for both men and women. [Batey R et al Med J Aust (1992) 156 (6)].
* 1% of deaths for 1986 were examined in the U.S. Quantity and frequency of alcohol consumption was obtained from each descendant's next of kin. The percentage of deceased with cirrhosis increased sharply with increasing number of drinks per day. An intake of three alcoholic drinks per day was associated with a significantly higher percentage of cirrhosis deaths compared with lifetime abstainers. [Parrish K et al, J Stud Alcohol (1993) 54(4)].
* 156 papers were reviewed assessing the relation of individual alcohol consumption to risk of physical damage. Evidence was found for a dose-response relationship between alcohol consumption and risk of liver damage. At levels of more than 20-30 grams alcohol/day, all individuals are likely to accumulate risk of harm. [P.Anderson et al. Addiction (1993) 88(11)].
* In a consecutive autopsy series of 210 Finnish males, the effects of long-term moderate alcohol consumption on the incidence of liver disease were observed. Below 40 gms of alcohol/day no significant increase in the features of liver disease were apparent. Daily intake of between 40 - 80 gms/day increased the frequency of fatty liver and slight alcoholic hepatitis. The incidence of liver cirrhosis increased significantly when daily intake exceeded 80gms. [V.Savolainen et al. Alcohol Clin Exp Res (1993) 17 (5)].
* A Danish study measured the prevalence of abnormal liver-derived enzymes in a population sample of 905 men and women aged 30-50. 12% of the cohort was found to have raised levels of abnormal liver-derived enzymes associated with moderate (48gms/day) alcohol intake. With higher alcohol intake (>48gms/day) the odds ratio for raised liver enzymes increased further. [F. Steffensen et al. Int J Epidemiology (1997) 26(1)].
* In another Danish study, self-assessed alcohol intake was determined in a prospective cohort study of 13,285 men and women (aged 30-79 years). The diagnosis of alcohol-induced liver disease was observed. An estimated relative risk of developing liver disease was determined at an intake of 1 - 6 alcoholic beverages per week, with a steep increase in risk above this intake. Women were found to have a significantly higher relative risk of developing alcohol-related liver disease than men. At 7-13 alcoholic beverages per week for women, and 14-27 for men, the relative risk of developing liver disease was greater than one. [U.Becker et al. Hepatology (1996) 23(5)].
* An Italian cohort study looked at the prevalence of chronic liver disease. 6534 subjects aged 12-65 were fully examined, and their alcohol intake evaluated with a dietary questionnaire. The risk threshold for developing liver damage was found at ingestion of more than 30gms alcohol/day (both sexes). 21% of the study group were at risk, and 5.5% of this risk group (74 individuals) showed signs of liver damage. Alcoholic cirrhosis was diagnosed in 2.2% of the risk group (ratio men:women, 9:1) and non-cirrhotic liver disease in 3.3%. The authors concluded that in an open population the risk threshold for developing cirrhosis and non-cirrhotic liver damage is 30gms ethanol per day. This risk increases with increased daily intake. [S.Bellentani et al. Gut (1997) 41(6)].

Last edited by HorseloverFat; 04-22-2009 at 08:59 PM..
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  #38  
Old 04-23-2009, 01:23 AM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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That's likely too much. About 2X too much. See your MD, see what he sez. Listen to QtM and others here.

In the meantime, stay the fuck away from Tylenol, aka acetaminophen aka "paracetamol", and anything that contains it, such as many cold medicines. Aspirin could be OK, or ibuprofen, etc. But not acetaminophen, combined with booze it can destroy your liver. *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity


* of course it is almost always safe when taken as directed, but "as directed" does not include anyone drinking that much alcohol.
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  #39  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:03 AM
Oukile Oukile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Lurker View Post
Double that for luck and we can presume...
I like the way you make your stats !

And that is a reliable reference. Googling 'russia alcohol consumption' or 'russia alcohol statistics' gives me lot of websites with the figure of 15 L a year per person. That is 50 bottles of vodka per year. And as a matter of fact, this is as much as the French consumption according to these stats.

Conclusion: average stats over one country don't mean very much.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:05 AM
The Seventh Deadly Finn The Seventh Deadly Finn is offline
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It's probably more than is healthy. But I'll bet it's not as bad as smoking a pack a day.

Four drinks a day is a moderately unhealthy lifestyle choice, as is failing to get regular exercise, eating a lousy diet, or being 15 pounds overweight. It's not optimal, but it's not going to put you in the top 1% of unhealthy people.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:18 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Originally Posted by Angry Lurker View Post
Some beliefs you could have in Russia would get you locked up indefinitely in USA. Some beliefs you could have in USA would get you indefinitely locked up in Russian.

Who is right?
Is this true? How could you be locked up for your beliefs alone, in the USA? Not just locked up but locked up indefinitely? I mean, unless the "beliefs" are telepathic powers that are causing people's balls to fall off or something.
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  #42  
Old 04-23-2009, 07:58 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is online now
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Originally Posted by HorseloverFat View Post
For the forth time, nobody is disputing that.
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  #43  
Old 04-23-2009, 08:16 AM
Mr. Moto Mr. Moto is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Of course, whenever you see studies that 1-2 drinks per day is optimal, you've got to remember that that's just an average. Some people can't even drink that much, and some can drink a lot more.
My great-grandfather would go through a fifth of bourbon a week, and would smoke the finest cigars made in Wheeling, West Virginia. He lived to be 96.

My grandmother never smoked and can be talked into about two drinks a year and she's still living in her own home at 91.

So mileage does vary. Personally I'll take my chances with bourbon, though I don't go through it quite so fast as Pap.
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  #44  
Old 04-23-2009, 08:54 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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In Russia, beliefs lock up YOU!
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  #45  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:13 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseloverFat View Post
>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps).

Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable.

Doing something, even potentially harmful (drinking alcohol, scarring your face, jumping from a wood tower with your feet tied by a liana, whatever...) when it's socially accepted and culturally a norm isn't indicative of a mental health issue.
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  #46  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:16 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is online now
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Originally Posted by Mr. Moto View Post
My great-grandfather would go through a fifth of bourbon a week, and would smoke the finest cigars made in Wheeling, West Virginia. He lived to be 96.

My grandmother never smoked and can be talked into about two drinks a year and she's still living in her own home at 91.

So mileage does vary. Personally I'll take my chances with bourbon, though I don't go through it quite so fast as Pap.
Keep in mind that cigars aren't typically inhaled. They can still cause throat or mouth cancer (maybe others), but a lot of people don't realize they're usually just puffed on.
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  #47  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:27 AM
Mr. Moto Mr. Moto is offline
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
Keep in mind that cigars aren't typically inhaled. They can still cause throat or mouth cancer (maybe others), but a lot of people don't realize they're usually just puffed on.
Yeah, but he had given up cigarettes for the cigars, and he would inhale them. Plus the bourbon was just for his drinking at home - he still liked to go out.

Doesn't matter much - he obviously isn't a role model, at least not for matters of health.
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  #48  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:34 AM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is online now
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Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
Doing something, even potentially harmful (drinking alcohol, scarring your face, jumping from a wood tower with your feet tied by a liana, whatever...) when it's socially accepted and culturally a norm isn't indicative of a mental health issue.
I think the causality points the other way. Lots of alcohol damages brain function over time, leading to mental health problems. You're not crazy to be drinking as much as everyone else, but the drinking can still make you crazy.

Analogous to heavy lead consumption by the Romans. It wasn't a sign of mental health that they used lead in plumbing and as a sweetener, but it definitely caused a lot of mental problems.
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  #49  
Old 04-23-2009, 12:43 PM
phreesh phreesh is offline
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Taking just the wine consumption into consideration and assuming your consumption of alcohol isn't addictive or symptomatic of some underlying mental health issues, it's probably a bit too much. Cutting back to half a bottle a night would be better.

That said, by your height/weight and statement that you work out, etc, you're probably actually above average health-wise. So, yeah, I'd cut down a bit, but if you keep watching what you eat and get plenty of excerise you can probably ride out a bottle a night for several decades.
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  #50  
Old 04-23-2009, 12:58 PM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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If a bottle of red a day is going to kill you, then there ain't much sand left in my hourglass, and my poppa should have been dead a long time ago.
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