I’m reluctant to email Qadgop or anyone else to ask this question, so I’ll pose it here. For some reason it seems inappropriate to to intrude on someone’s personal life with an email requesting medical information, whereas if they are already here and answering questions, then I suppose it’s okay.
My question is regard to whether I’m consuming enough alcohol on a regular basis to run a reasonable risk of causing myself physical damage. First a little background. I’m 59 years old and weigh around 230 lbs. I drank a fair amount of beer in my late teens/early twenties and then nothing to speak of until around ten or eleven years ago when I began to develop an appreciation for some of life’s finer things (art, food, music, etc.). At that time I began to experiment with various wines and drank wine at the rate of one to three bottles a week until approximately a year and a half ago when I began to experiment with spirits, and since that time I’ve been enjoying hard liquor at the rate of two to three drinks an evening with each drink containing about 3 oz. of 100 proof booze (though I experiment with different brands and varieties and don’t always drink liquor that is this strong, but this would be a good worse case scenario).
First I should say that, based on a comment by someone else recently that if I was worried that I had a problem I probably did have a problem, I’m not concerned that I’ve developed a drinking problem per se, as I drink alcohol primarily out of a gourmand-like desire to enjoy one of life’s pleasures rather than simply a desire to consume alcohol.
Anyway, my basic question is: Am I likely to be doing my liver or anything else physical damage by drinking liquor at the rate described above?
IANAD, but I don’t think anyone can answer your question definitively. It greatly depends on your overall health, diet, etc.
A simple blood test can determine the health of your liver.
FYI, I’m 40 and have been a beer drinker for a long time. I don’t drink on a daily basis - perhaps once a week. But I’m a social drinker, and when I do drink beer, it tends to be a lot. I’ve often wondered if I’ve damaged my liver, so last year I had a blood test. The results were normal.
The health benefits of alcohol consumption peak at two drinks per day for men and one per day for women. After that the detriments start to cut into the benefits and eventually outweigh them. How fast those detriments shoot up is highly individual, but overall the relative risk of cirrhosis jumps up like crazy after more than 1-2 drinks per day. (The extra calories also factor into the cardiovascular risk-benefit equation.)
It’s worth noting that when we medical types say “drink”, we mean a 12-oz beer, a 5-oz glass of wine, or 1 1/2 oz of liquor, so those 2 or 3 3-oz drinks are actually more like 4-6 drinks. That’s quite a bit, and I’ve seen plenty of people do damage to themselves with that amount. I’ve also seen people who drank that much every day for decades who were healthy as horses until they keeled over at a ripe old age, but basing your health decisions on people like that is never a good idea.
So to answer your question: yes, that amount of booze can do damage, and it’s really hard to say whether it will or not for you in particular. Talk to your doctor about it.
Having heard or read of so many heavy boozers who drank that way for decades I’ve been telling myself I was probably okay, but deep down inside I’ve had the suspicion I may be overdoing it. Thanks to both you, DoctorJ, and Crafter_Man for the insightful info and the suggestion about blood tests/talking it over with my doctor…which is something I’ve drug my feet about doing for the sake of convenience more than anything else. Guess I’ll do that, though.
And thanks to you, samclem, for looking into this for me (us? ). I’ll look forward to seeing what you post if you can find it.
Usually, in Medicine, we speak of units of alcohol. Specifically, one unit =
one beer
one five ounce glass of wine
one and a quarter ounces of spiritis
All of the above contain one unit of alcohol.
Note that if beer is 5% alcohol (in Canada!), and wine is 10% alcohol, and a typical spirit is 40% alcohol (80 proof), we have
280 ml (10 oz) beer X 0.05 = 14 grams alcohol = one unit alcohol
140 ml (5 oz) wine X 0.10 = 14 grams alcohol = one unit alcohol
35 ml (1.25 oz) spirits X 0.40 = 14 grams alcohol = one unit alcohol
In other words, the alcohol content, and hence the risk, is the same whether you’re talking about beer, wine, or spirits.
Now, the usual figure cited for risk of liver disease as a result of ingesting alcohol is no more than 4 units per day for men, and no more than 3 for women (women are generally smaller and, moreover, contain less body water than men meaning that any alcohol they take is more concentrated in their systems than is the case for men). Obviously, this is just a guideline but, there’s no doubt that someone taking six to nine ounces of 100 proof booze is clearly at risk, i.e.:
Taking 7.5 ounces (your average) of 100 proof booze ==>
210 ml X 0.50 = 105 grams alcohol = 7.5 X 14 grams alcohol = 7.5 units alcohol
Thanks for the advice and the detailed explanation. I think I’ll cut back by 50% or so and perhaps discontinue nightly drinking until I talk to my doctor…and probably even after that.
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to answer. It is indeed appreciated.
Here’s the thread I believe you were referring to earlier. The topic is similar and it contains a post by you. It says basically the same things that we’ve already been told in this thread, plus some additional information about cirrhosis, hepatitis C & B and alcoholic hepatitis. Frankly, and even though I suspected deep down that I might be overdoing it, I’m surprised that such a relatively small amount of hootch (volumewise, that is) is so powerful in terms of impact upon the body. But I digress; I just thought you might like to revisit this thread if it’s the one you said earlier had been helpful to you before.
Liver function tests are not a good indicator of alcohol damage, they only get really wonky after a lot of damage. I have known patients who drink bottles of vodka a day to have normal liver function tests (alcoholic brain damage was more their problem at the time).
The vast majority of my medical patients drink way more than the recommended amount (check my location), I rarely have to investigate abnormal LFTS.
Binge drinking is worse than little and often, so you can comfort yourself that a beer or two a night is better than saving it all up for a once-a-week blow out.
Despite what the media tells us constantly, it is perfectly possible to be a heavy drinker without having a drinking problem. It is also possible to do very stupid, self destructive things while drunk without having a drinking problem. If, however, you drink heavily or continue to do self-destructive things whilst drunk because you are unable to stop drinking either because of physical withdrawal or psychological need, THEN you have a drinking problem.
As a friend of Bill W. and as someone who was drinking the same as yourself SA for quite some time, I can say your motivations for that quantity of alcohol are as much a factor as the substance itself. I have seen many a man/woman who for a lifetime of not drinking decided to play catch-up in their 50’s and 60’s and suffered some terrible ill-effects on their physical and mental well being. A tenet someone like me lives by is this: To thine ownself be true.
Meaning only YOU know if you need to visit the doc, or if you are drinking too much, or if you are drinking for more than one reason than enjoying a scotch with a friend.
For me, enjoying a scotch with a friend with a nice cigar was wonderful. I’d have a snifter with 1oz of scotch and so would he. He would sip his, and I would be on my second or third in an hours time. I could not grasp how one man could have just one, 1oz drink in a night and be ok with that. I felt I needed more.
See your doc and be honest with he or she, but above all be honest with yourself, because you are number one after all.
Thanks for your additional comments, irishgirl and Phlosphr. Both of you have raised points that do play a part in the drinking I’ve been doing. (For example, not understanding how someone could be content with just one 1 oz. drink a night.) I started out that way, savoring an ounce or so and sipping it slowly and in small amounts over 30 minutes to an hour’s time. Now I can easily down than much in 5 to 10 minutes if I don’t watch myself.
I’ve been aware of the danger of alcoholism for the entire time since I started drinking. It is what I’ve tried to be most vigilant about and what has caused me to limit my consumption to the amount I have been drinking, which I had heretofore felt was likely an acceptable amount. Still, I wasn’t sure and had the nagging feeling I might be overdoing it, although to me the amount didn’t seem like a lot given that I typically drink copious amounts of soft drinks over the course of a day, and compared to that it seemed that I was drinking only a tiny amount of booze. I only began to grow concerned about physical consequences, however, after the subject came up in another thread last night.
The comments everyone has offered in this thread have changed my view considerably. I now believe that I’ve not only been drinking too much from a physiological point of view but that I’ve been running a significant risk of psychological or chemical addiction as well.
Time to back way off and I thank you all again very much for your comments.
Well, I see this has already been well-answered by astute colleagues.
You’re free to email me, SA. Anyone is. I’ll even reply eventually.
I’m glad you remembered that old thread, Sam. I’d forgotten all about it.
irishgirl, do you really generally see normal ALT (aka SGPT) levels in your heavier drinkers? I agree that it’s only after cirrhosis has set in that one gets the elevated bilirubins, but I’m used to seeing ALT abnormalities in at least 40% of my heavy drinkers (with negative Hep B and C tests to boot). I suppose I could research the issue, but I figured I’d ask first.
Good luck, SA. If you’re able to cut back to healthier levels, great! If you find that you can’t, ask for help.
Thank you very much, Qadgop. I appreciate the good wishes and knowing that an email would be okay. I don’t anticipate problems cutting back as I don’t think I’m that far gone, yet. But please know I won’t hesitate to ask for help should the need arise.
Yup. Totally normal LFTs.
The hepatic patients themselves had dreadful LFTs (obviously), but our typical 50-something heavy drinker who came in with chest pain and co-incidentally admitted drinking a bottle of whiskey or 8 pints of Guinness a day…normal LFTs.
A couple of the psychiatric alcoholic patients had better LFTs than most of the healthy population, and those were the guys who would seize unless they had alcohol or Librium.
Memorably we had someone with an ALT of 3000… but he did not last too long.
Most adult males in the catchment area where I worked drink about 40-50 units a week, do not consider themselves to have a drinking problem and see no reason to cut down until they have their first heart attack…sometimes not even then. If we could show them any abnormal blood results to help change their mind, we would, often there weren’t any.
). I’ll look forward to seeing what you post if you can find it.