Why Women Rule the Roost

There’s an old joke about a guy being interviewed about who has the final word on decisions in his household. He says that he makes the Important Decisions, while his wife makes the Unimportant Decisions. And what are the important decisions versus the unimportant decisions? Well the important decisions would include things that are very significant, like what US trade policy should be, and who should be nominated to the Supreme Court. Unimportant decisions would be things that are of relatively minor significance, like which house they should buy, how to raise the children and the like.

This pretty much represents the dynamics of most married couples that I’ve seen over the years. And for some cites:

From a study by a team at Iowa State University:

From a Pew Research Center poll:

What follows is what I think are two major factors that influence this dynamic: male ego, and centrality of marriage/relationship differential.

Male ego refers to the need that men have to feel powerful and in control. I would hypothesize that in general women don’t have this need to the same extent. And this manifests itself in the context of a marriage in the following example. Take a stereotypical case in which the issue is what to do that evening, and the man wants to stay home and watch football while the woman wants to go out for the evening. Suppose the man comes in and announces “I’ve decided that tonight we will go out for the evening”, the wife will be happy. She will be getting what she wants, and will not be perturbed by the fact that her husband is the one who made the decision. She might even be more happy that it worked out this way. Less confrontation, plus her husband is looking out for her and wants to make her happy. By contrast, suppose the wife announces “I’ve decided that tonight we stay home and watch the game”, the guy will be happy to get what he wants, but at some level will be disquieted by the fact that his wife made the decision about what to do and not him.

This impacts actual control in two ways. 1) is that husbands have a need for two things (personal preferences and power) while women have a need for one (personal preferences). Any time you have two people is such a situation, there’s going to be some tradeoff, in that the guy with greater needs will need to sacrifice some of what the other one wants in order to get more of what they need in another area. And 2) is that there’s a serious consequence for men in losing arguments - loss of face - that women don’t face to the same degree. A guy knows at the outset that if he decides to try to insist on his priorities and doesn’t end up getting his way he will be shown up as a powerless non-boss, whereas if he decides to pretend - even to himself - that he doesn’t really care that much, or wants to do what is right (or any other excuse) he will be insured against this possibility. Meanwhile the women doesn’t dread this type of loss of face to nearly the same extent if at all, and so has nothing to lose in this regard by trying to get what she wants.

As a practical matter, these lead to a situation where the husband and wife are analogous to the monarch and prime minster of England. The monarch officially leads and rules, but practical power is in the hands of the prime minister, and much of the power that the monarch formally exerts is really a charade in which the monarch formally does what the PM wants.

So that, in the example above, a lot of husbands who would really rather watch the game are going to consider their options either consciously or subconsciously and realize that it might be wiser not to try for it. Because if he “decides” to watch the game, the wife might object, and the outcome might be a smackdown if they end up going out. But if he “decides” to go out, then he gets to be the magnanimous ruler, making kind and generous decisions that benefit the couple as a whole etc. That’s a strong incentive for many men to choose Option B.

For this reason, I suspect that even much of what we think about gender roles in prior generations may be misleading in this regard. And while we think that a “traditional marriage” meant the husband having absolute power, this was so in a formal sense, but that as a practical matter wives exerted enormous influence throughout the ages (though not necessarily the same amount in every generation and society).

The second issue is the centrality of the marriage (or relationship). ISTM, from what I’ve seen and read, that these form a much bigger part of the consciousness of women than of men. And that it’s easier for men to just mentally write off an unhappy marriage and focus on areas outside of the relationship than it is for women.

One might think that this favors male power in relationships, since women will be more motivated to make sacrifices to keep the relationship happy. And this might be true to an extent. But I think on the whole its impact is in the other direction. Because both spouses have their expectations of what the relationship should be like, and what they should be getting out of it. If a man feels that his marriage does not reflect his expectations, and he is not getting what he should be getting, he can write it off, and find something else to focus on. A women is less likely to be happy with this situation, and is more likely to try insistently on trying to make the relationship into what she thinks it could and should be.

What this leads to is more women “trying to change men” than the reverse, and more men saying “OK, whatever you want, just let me have some peace” than the reverse.

I think the above are important factors. There are likely others, e.g. greater hands on expertise about family matters, societal protectiveness of women and a backlash against patriarchy, favorable divorce laws (when children are involved) and so on.

A few disclaimers

#1: This is an attempt to describe a tendency, a situation that seems to exist more often than would be predicted by random chance. It is not an attempt to claim that every marriage/relationship works this way, or that all men and women differ in this manner (or any individual SDMB posters). Further, the differences described, in addition to not being universal, are also gradual and not black-and-white. IOW, men tend to be more of X and women more of Y, rather than men being X and women being Y, and so on.

#2: This is based on my observations, as well as what I’ve read, which is mostly in the US, in the 20th and 21st centuries. Relationship roles are influences by cultural attitudes, which differ in other times and places. I imagine that some of these factors are inherent and would be present in every situation, but this may not be true, and even if it is, they might be overshadowed by other factors in a given culture.

#3: I am not suggesting that men and women consciously think out these thoughts most of the time. As noted, these could be subconsciously influencing their actions, much in the way that subconscious thoughts influence so much else of what people do. And particularly once patterns are established, much of what happens in a relationship is driven by habit, with even less conscious thought involved, but ultimately based on underlying factors.

Your point, what is?

My theory is that men are browbeaten and manipulated into marriage in the first place. So the fact of their marriage is already evidence that they are easily dominated.

Women rule the roost because in any relationship, they control half of the vote but 100% of the vagina.

If by “browbeaten” you mean they eventually get tired of trolling bars and clubs until 4:00am looking to pull some skank so they can fancy themself a “player” in favor of having someone who actually cares what time they come home at night, then yes, you are correct.

I was talking about this with a guy at work today. He was leaving later than usual and I asked him why. He said that he had been waiting for his fiancee, she was picking him up and they were going out somewhere. I asked him what they were doing and he said, “I have no idea.”

I said to him, “that’s the smart way to handle relationships. I did the same when I was married, who cares what you are doing on Tuesday, football is only on Friday to Monday night.” And that’s about it, most guys like us don’t give a shit - we are happy to spend time with our SOs and we don’t have any pressing need to control many things at all.

Yet marriage is a much better deal for men. Funny how that goes.

Right there. It’s no more complicated than that. (bolding mine)

This does not jibe at all with what I have observed/read. I’ve known any number of women who were utter control freaks and saw any expression of autonomy on their partners as a direct attack on their authority, and where “I got him to admit X” is the gold standard for “winning” a fight–which is basically all about face. I’ve also known any number of men who were the same way.

Basically, my own observations of individuals/society is that the differences between men and women are so vast that any attempt to generalize is doomed to failure–it’s worth noting that certain underlying personality traits may tend to be expressed differently in women than in men, but I think the traits themselves–confrontational/non-confrontational, controlling/passive, anxious/relaxed, whatever, tend to be distributed fairly evenly. Generalizing by gender simply isn’t going to be useful in understanding any specific relationship.

They pay more than half, get the shaft in a divorce, die earlier and have to kill the spiders.

I am not so sure about that.

This is what my Dad told me when I started dating, except he said half the money. It’s rarely worth fighting since even if you win you come out behind.

This pretty much. Unless it’s going to bleed me dry financially or be otherwise impossible to deal with I’ll puppy dog it with a woman leading the way for most social engagements if that’s her thing, so will most men I know. Women keep the world connected socially and on a familial level, men have some responsibility to play along.

Get the shaft in a divorce? You might want to do a little research on that. Well, research that doesn’t involve celebrities or men who are billionaires.

Check out standard of living figures for both men and women after divorce. Most men have an increase while most women have a decrease.

Also I’m not sure if you’re joking but since this is Great Debates you’ll also note that married men live longer than single men so that’s wrong, too.

I’ve never been married nor do I want to so I have no axe to grind about this.

Holding the TV remote is a Very Important Job, and only men know how to use the remote properly and responsibly. Or so my husband believes. On the other hand, I get to decide what we’re having for dinner, and whether I’m going to cook it or we’re going out. He almost never cooks dinner. Not because he doesn’t want to, but because he’s so bad at it. I’m not willing to suffer heartburn for three days, and I’m also not willing to babysit him while he tries to cook.

How do you define success and failure here?

The OP was not about “understanding any specific relationship”. It was about understanding a phenomenon that appears to be true in general - per the study and poll - though obviously not in every instance, as noted.

Additional cites

Cite 1

Cite 2

In sum, a disparity seems to exist. Something has to account for it. I’ve suggested what I think are primary reasons.

“The same is true of the perpetual jokes in comic papers about shrewish wives and henpecked husbands. It is all a frantic exaggeration, but it is an exaggeration of a truth; whereas all the modern mouthings about oppressed women are the exaggerations of a falsehood. If you read even the best of the intellectuals of to-day you will find them saying that in the mass of the democracy the woman is the chattel of her lord, like his bath or his bed. But if you read the comic literature of the democracy you will find that the lord hides under the bed to escape from the wrath of his chattel. This is not the fact, but it is much nearer the truth. Every man who is married knows quite well, not only that he does not regard his wife as a chattel, but that no man can conceivably ever have done so. The joke stands for an ultimate truth, and that is a subtle truth. It is one not very easy to state correctly. It can, perhaps, be most correctly stated by saying that, even if the man is the head of the house, he knows he is the figurehead.” - G. K. Chesterton

I don’t see any need for fancy theories or pop sociology for explaining why the woman is on top in a typical household. My explanation is that women rule because they’re smarter. Their superior intelligence lets them outmaneuver men and get what they want.

(Like the OP, the only evidence I offer is my own observations, but when I think about married couples that I know, most of the men follow the Dagwood Bumstead model: they’ve long ago given up on participating in major decisions, and the best they can hope for is a little time alone.)

OP, the basis of your argument is incorrect, and therefore, so is the rest of your argument. There is this idea that only males have egos, but I honestly don’t know where that came from. Obviously, women have egos too. The strength of the ego may vary from person to person, but statistically I would argue that there is no gender difference. Women like to be in control just as much as men, they like to have power just as much as men. If a woman is in an unequal relationship, where the man is the breadwinner and the woman stays at home, then the woman will likely take her power through different forms, but she is still likely to take it. The desire for power and control is fundamental to human nature and has nothing to do with gender.

There was an experiment in which they showed babies a sequence of pictures. The baby also had a button to play with. For half the babies, pressing the button advanced the slide show, and they showed delight in having control over the pictures they could see. For other babies, pressing the button did nothing and as the pictures advanced regardless of the babies’ desire, the babies became upset. This shows that the desire for control is a trait we, all humans, are born with.

In fact, focusing on gender differences (e.g. only males have ego, women don’t have their own ambitions or desire for glory) is generally not a good way to address these types of issues. For example, an introvert husband and extrovert wife will have a totally different dynamic in their relationship, and one could argue that intro/extrovertness is a better indicator for who takes what role in the relationship than male/femaleness.

In light of this, the rest of your argument doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Certainly the example you gave is nothing like the relationships I know, including my own. The idea that a man would feel uncomfortable taking a woman’s suggestion for what to do for the evening, simply because it’s coming from a woman, is a little silly, don’t you think?

And I am suggesting that your observations do not seem to match mine at all.

Lemme splain. No, that would take too long. Let me sum up:

My grandparents have two coordinating coffee cups. His has a picture of a rooster with the words: “I Rule the Roost!” Hers, a picture of a hen and the words: “I Rule the Rooster!”

Per the Pew Survey (second link in the OP), that one is split down the middle.

Emotions are often “silly”.

I looked around a bit to see if there have been any studies of male ego issues, and couldn’t find any - perhaps it was studied under a different name. Certainly the idea seems to have wide currency, e.g. this woman’s take (Step 2).

I’d be interested to know, and I genuinely don’t, whether the reverse is true on marriage.