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  #1  
Old 06-17-2009, 08:56 AM
Whiteknight Whiteknight is offline
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Concealed handgun carry on private residential property

Can a holder of a CCW permit legally carry on private residential property, owned by someone else, outside of the CCW holder's home state without the landowner's permission or knowledge? The CCW holder is a resident of Pennsylvania and the property in question is located in Maryland. I do not know if the CCW holder also has an out of state resident permit for MD, but I would imagine not. It is incredibly difficult even for MD residents to get CCW permits.
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2009, 09:07 AM
Gbro Gbro is offline
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Private property is much different than what a CC permit is issued for.
My understanding is that a permit is for carrying in public.
Now this private property can be also open to the public making this an in public place requiring a CC permit in many states.
Now if this private property were in the rural areas and you were to carry a concealed weapon on you while being a guest on this private property you might want the blessings of the owner.
If the owner is OK with you carrying on his property It may be OK to do as long as you follow other rules of the state.
For example;
Here in MN a property owner can carry on his own property without a permit.
A property owner cannot have a loaded gun on/in his possession while on a motor vehicle like even a 4 wheel ATV.
There are so many variables in your question that need to be sorted through.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Whiteknight Whiteknight is offline
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Ok, let's say that Bob lives in PA and holds a CCW permit for PA (assumed). Bob frequently visits Larry's house, in Maryland, for parties and other social occasions. Larry recently learned that every time Bob has visited in the last several years, Bob has been carrying. Are Bob's actions legal?
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2009, 09:35 AM
Airman Doors, USAF Airman Doors, USAF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteknight View Post
Ok, let's say that Bob lives in PA and holds a CCW permit for PA (assumed). Bob frequently visits Larry's house, in Maryland, for parties and other social occasions. Larry recently learned that every time Bob has visited in the last several years, Bob has been carrying. Are Bob's actions legal?
No, Bob's actions are not legal. Maryland does not have CCW reciprocity with Pennsylvania, therefore he cannot legally carry a concealed weapon in Maryland.

Is this a real life sort of thing, or is it more a question of the appropriateness of carrying a concealed weapon in someone else's home without their knowledge? I ask because the former is entirely a legal question whereas the second is an ethical (and debatable) question.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:41 AM
yoyodyne yoyodyne is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF View Post
No, Bob's actions are not legal. Maryland does not have CCW reciprocity with Pennsylvania, therefore he cannot legally carry a concealed weapon in Maryland.
He can on private property that he owns. If it's owned by someone else it depends on them.
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2009, 09:42 AM
Whiteknight Whiteknight is offline
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Thanks for the reply. This is a real life situation but since this is GQ I tried to keep my OP to just the facts. I'll start another thread in GD to address the ethical issues.
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Gbro Gbro is offline
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Bob may have transported the gun unloaded and cased to Larry's property and then loaded it and concealed it. That may sound illogical but could be a legal action.
Now Larry could tell Bob that he is not welcome on his property with a weapon and that would make Bob a trespasser if he didn't leave the property were he to continue to carry.
If Bob was permitted in another state without reciprocity in Larry's state he would be in jeopardy of loosing his permit in his home state if he was ever prosecuted.

Last edited by Gbro; 06-17-2009 at 09:50 AM..
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2009, 10:59 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is online now
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In this thread, pkbites says that in Wisconsin it's illegal to carry concealed without a license anywhere, including inside your own house, and he even arrested a guy for it. So without knowing the laws in MD, it's certainly possibly that he broke the law. And of course, if he drove/rode/walked/etc. from PA to MD with the gun concealed, he broke the law on the way, since he wasn't licensed in MD.

Of course, it's probably impossible to arrest & prosecute the guy for what he did in the past - you have nothing to go on but his statement that that's what he did. In the future of course, the MD property owner has the right of every property owner, to instruct a person to not enter his property or leave it for any reason at all, or no reason.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2009, 12:16 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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In Kansas you may carry concealed without informing any private property owner (special exceptions excepted, such as schools, etc.) HOWEVER, should a private property owner post a sign in compliance with the official regulations of the CCW act, OR the private property owner tell you unambiguously that they do not allow concealed carry on their property, then you MUST cease carrying concealed, or leave the property, and you may not return with your firearm concealed unless you have a reasonable expectation that you are permitted, AND there is no sign in compliance with the State law stating that CCW is forbidden.

In other words, if you invite me to your house and do not have a clearly marked sign in compliance with Kansas law, AND you do not tell me you forbid concealed carry on your property, I can legally carry concealed on your property and I don't have to tell you if I am or not. If you say in casual conversation in the party "BTW, I don't permit CCW here", I must leave the premises or cease carrying concealed (the latter of which ironically, would create much more trouble than existed prior; most likely you'd ask me to leave, which I would then be required to do peaceably under trespassing laws).
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2009, 12:32 PM
yoyodyne yoyodyne is online now
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MD law
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2009, 12:36 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
In this thread, pkbites says that in Wisconsin it's illegal to carry concealed without a license anywhere, including inside your own house, and he even arrested a guy for it.
There was a State Supreme Court ruling allowing CCW on/in ones own property or business, but it is not carte blanche. The carrier has to be able to articulate why it was better to conceal than carry openly. You can still be charged with CCW on your own property not withstanding that ruling.

Now, it is true that people who are peaceably concealing on their own property or business may not get arrested even if the police know about it.

But there were some other factors in that case besides him carrying a concealed pistol. He was being uncooperative, profane, and untruthful. The disorderly conduct charge was dropped by the D.A., but he was convicted of obstructing, and of a municipal charge of CCW (lowered from a state charge).

Last edited by pkbites; 06-17-2009 at 12:36 PM..
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2009, 07:00 PM
Crafter_Man Crafter_Man is offline
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Excellent description, Una, and that's exactly how it is in Ohio.

The one strange exception in Ohio is a place of worship. By default, a person is not allowed to carry a CCW in a church, even if it's not posted. You can only carry in a church if you have been granted permission by the head pastor / church leader.
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