Apparently the principle of reciprocity is that the States will honor each other’s laws. The whole point of the so-called “Defense of Marriage” act is that if one state allows gay marriages, all the other states would be forced to accept them as legal. All the states accept each other’s driver’s licenses.
So is there a legal principle behind a state not allowing someone to carry a concealed weapon if they have a licence from their home state?
I would appreciate it if answers could be focused only on the legal aspects.
well, my understanding is that currently each state’s permits are only good in the state where issued. (my da-yaddy has a permit to carry in the state of Florida - so sorry Floridians, not my fault, and cannot legally carry when he’s back here).
Although marriages/divorces are considered across the country, not everything is.
Some things, like a driver’s license are only ok for a period of time in another state (for example, my friend Annie when she moved to West Vir. had to quickly get her license changed due to their laws, but a friend of mine who lived in Texas kept his Texas license for about a year or so after moving to Michigan).
The granting of a liquor license for example is very case specific (as in the holder I think, cannot just move across town and ‘carry it with’, certainly isn’t allowed to cross state lines with it).
Right to practice certain professions, too (doctors, lawyers etc.) each state has their own licensing requirements.
So, it would appear that permit to carry falls into that set of stuff.
The only difference I can see is that marriage is a fairly universal thing. A state may justify not honoring an out of state concealed carry permit by writing extremely specific requirements into the law such as mandating that those carrying pass a course approved by that state.
Incorrect. Some states do honor CCW permits from other states. It’s up to the permit holder to find out if he’s legal or not. These laws are constantly changing, so be sure the information you get is correct before traveling.
Wisconsin does not honor anyones CCW permits, and does not issue any. Only peace officers are allowed to cary in this state. And you must be a peace officer from this state in order to carry concealed in this state. Out of state cops are considered civilians here, and not allowed to CCW while visiting. The only exception being federal law enforcement officers. There is no law, state or local, which prohibits carrying a gun openly. The gun laws here are ridiculous!:mad:
Michigan’s the same way. It’s perfectly legal to carry a gun openly. Courts have declared that “openly” includes visible holsters worn outside the clothing. “Openly” does NOT include putting on a coat over your holster (thus concealing it), and does NOT cover carrying inside an automobile (this is also considered concealing). However, some counties and/or cities (such as wacky Wayne County/Detroit) ban open carry as something like “public nuisance” or something to the effect.
Luckily, Michigan’s finally succeeded in becoming a right-to-carry state. County Gun Boards (the “approving authority”) can no longer turn down CCW applications for their political beliefs and other arbitrary reasons (and reserve CCWs for their buddies). This doesn’t stop wacky Wanye County from artificially creating barriers, though (for example, fingerprints are a 3-month wait, unless it’s for any other reason).
As far as the “open carry” applies, I’m sure a lot of other states are similar. <anecdotal evidence>While in Texas until 1996, it was an open carry state, much like Michigan. Then, the great George W. made the state a right-to-carry state.</anecdotal evidence>
ok pkites - I was certain that a permit to carry in one state was not universally accepted in other states (thus the answer to Fenris’ question), but it seems the proper way to phrase it is:
Any state can (and does) determine for themselves ‘permit’ issues for both residents and visitors. Therefore, the fact that the State of Florida trusts you to carry **in no way obligates ** any other state to do so. The state of Florida can also choose to recognize valid permits issued by other states, but they are under no obligation to do so (vs. say the marriage laws, if one gets married in Nevada, the other states are obligated to recognize the marriage).
And, as always with laws, your very, very best bet is to check carefully before you assume anything. (so, don’t rely either on a message board or your Uncle Henry’s barber’s statement “yea, that state lets you do such and such”.)
wring-
If your dad has a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm license, he can carry concealed in the following states:
Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, and Wyoming.
Similarly, any person with a permit from any of these states may carry in Florida.
Please, for the love of all that’s good and holy, do not give this information to “our father who art in Florida, Herbert be his name”. My siblings, our children and I will be eternally grateful.
California will also not grant reciprocity for concealed/carry permits issued in other states. My brother has a CCW issued in Washington state, and cannot carry in CA.
Interestingly, he was a US Army Ranger when he applied, and all the guys who wanted permits got them, with a minimum of fuss. Is that just Washington’s policy, or did they assume that members of the Special Operation community had a better grasp of firearms safety and use?
I would think it would depend on whether a law is state or federally regulated. States recognize marriages in other states because it simplifies things but they don’t have to. Things that are federal laws like discrimination laws have to be observed by every state. However, if a state gets to make it’s own laws about something, those laws don’t have to be observed by other states. Does this make sense? Since each state can make it’s own laws regarding CCW, qualifying for CCW under one state doesn’t guarantee that you qualify under another state’s laws so that other state doesn’t have to recognize your CCW.
I hope this isn’t a hijack but maybe to illustrate the point - I think if gay marriage becomes legal in a state, you are going to see that some other states won’t recognize them and they (currently) have a right not to. The states were given enough power to govern themselves so they didn’t have to feel concern about us having too strong a central gov’t. I haven’t been following this issue but I believe at least 2 states were considering laws to this effect when the discussion in Hawaii was starting to be news.
actually Joe, the OP asks not “which states honor other states permit to carry”, but ‘what is the legal principal’ to differentiate between right to carry and say, marriage laws (where other states are required to honor other states action), which **Padeye, breaknrun & I ** attempt to cover.
Joe_Cool, not trying to be a nit but this is the real question we’re trying to answer. Fenris isn’t asking what states grant reciprocity for CCW but what is the legal basis for reciprocity. I’m guessing there isn’t one except maybe convenience but IANAL.
Hmm, where’s Bricker when you actually want to hear from a lawyer?
Found this site. It shows title 15, chap. 85 sec. 5902 of the US code if I linked properly, which deals specifically with state reciprocity for the armored car industry. Of course this doesn’t deal with the general issue we’re interested in but the way I read this, federal law can insist on states granting reciprocity for certain things under certain circumstances.
Here is another site which talks about marriage reciprocity laws in AZ.
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And from sec. 25-101.
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So we see that states don’t automatically grant reciprocity. Gay marriages aren’t going to be legal here even if they are legal elsewhere. You also can’t leave the state to get a gay marriage somwhere else where it is legal and have that marriage considered valid.
What we need is a federal reciprocity law and I’d bet my britches that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.
breaknrun & wring have it precisely right. If the so-called “Defense of Marriage” act is needed to “protect” states from not having to recognize gay marriage (and we went through this in Colorado and BOTH sides said that if Hawaii legalized gay marriages, without the so-called “Defense of Marriage” law in place Colorado would be forced to honor those marriages.
Drivers licenses are honored for a certain amount of time, as (I believe) are Doctor and Lawyer’s licenses. If I’m driving through a state, my driver’s license is good for the trip, so why isn’t my (hypothetical) concealed-carry permit?
Given that, what is the legal principal that “forces” states to accept each other’s marriage licenses and driver’s licenses, but not accept each other’s concealed-carry licenses. What is covered under reciprocity?
From what I’ve read on the NRA site (laws and reciprocity, not commentary), it seems to me that a given state tends to offer reciprocity to residents of states with similar and stricter laws than it has itself. Example: Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the country. They honor carry permits from anybody, since they have no restrictions on carrying whatsoever anyway. New Jersey has some of the most draconian laws in the nation, and does not honor carry permits issued in any other state (not even New York).
So wherever your state is on the scale, it seems that your permit will tend to be honored in most states that are on a similar or lower level.
