Are invisible fence type systems that involve a shock collar and buried perimeter fence system inhumane to dogs or not?
They are when you put the dog in the car and forget he still has the collar on and wonder why the Hell he’s yelping when you drive out of the driveway.
Other than that, I got nothing
We had one for our dog growing up, and being kids, would sometimes use it to zap each other. It certainly hurts, but its about equivalent to a pin prick, and of course stops as soon as you back up. And our dog, anyways, learned how to avoid it pretty fast.
So if you think causing pain at all to an animal is inhumane, then obviously yes, but otherwise I’d say no.
Probably less inhumane than them being run over by a car when they get out.
I’d never heard of them before this thread, though. They do remind me of the Running Man.
Better than me beating it for running out of the yard…
We have one for our dog. He has been shocked very few times, but in three years, only a few times - he doesn’t even yelp. When used properly, its a positive reinforcement system - with a negative backup. The collar beeps before it shocks him. You spend weeks training your dog to the beeps, with positive reinforcement for backing off when he hears them before you even add the shock.
I’ve been shocked by the shock collar - it isn’t a horrible shock, and I shocked my hand picking up the collar - I didn’t have layers of fur.
One thing I recall that was noted about the civil war Anderson POW camp being particularly inhumane was something like a ‘invisible fence’ before the camp walls, basically the POW’s were told don’t come within x feet of the outside walls. A invisible barrier that was enforced by lethal force. This kept the POW’s confined by erecting a philological barrier, which seemed to be much more traumatic then a physical one.
Really depends on the dog, the training, the setting - I’ve seen some dogs do fine with them, some become afraid of the outdoors, and some that developed some pretty frightening aggression problems. They are NOT a good alternative to a solid fence, for a number of reasons. Even better? Training and supervision.
A nitpick - this isn’t Positive Reinforcement, the way I know it - this is Negative Reinforcement- punishment (shock) is withheld if the correct behavior is occuring. Positive Reinforcement would be if the dog were getting rewards for ignoring things that would normally cause him to leave the premises.
From Karen Pryor at Clicker Training.com
http://www.clickertraining.com/glossary
It may not be that crucial what word is used, but it is to us dog trainers!
Read what she said again and then hang your head in shame!!! 
I have no qualms about IFs WRT the dogs they control.
My issue with them is that they are are discourteous to humans. It can be quite disconcerting to have a dog come running towards you barking, with no visible barrier between you. This is especially common when you are walking a dog on a leash. You have no idea where the boundary is behind which you hope the dog will stop.
We used to have one. One of our dogs wouldn’t go anywhere near it, the other ignored it completely, going back and forth at will. I was shocked by the collars a couple of times (don’t ask), and it feels like a bad static-electricity shock. It’s one “pop”, which is unpleasant, but hardly torture.
To add some data to the discussion, the level of shock is adjustable and various dogs need different levels. A large dog doesn’t necessarily need a higher level than a small dog; in fact the opposite is often true. If you have been shocked by your dog’s collar, the level may not be representitive of most of the collars.
As Dangerosa mentioned, you are supposed to spend several weeks training your dog using flags, beeps, distractions, and even shocks. It is a commitment, although a smaller commitment than training your dog without the system.
I don’t think it is worse than other dog training methods like using a choke collar. If trained properly, the dog gets the negative re-enforcement a few times and then learns the lesson. Personally, I think it is ok to use methods on a dog that we would not use on a human, although I can appreciate that not everyone agrees.
I was able to train my dog off-lead for the basic cases, but I could not get her to master the cases with distractions. I consider this a commitment failure on my part. But it also meant that if she saw a squirrel across the street, she would go after it. After one close call, we got her an invisible fence. I think it was a good decision – she has the run of the whole yard (even the front) and there is no fear of her getting hit by a car.
Since her initial training, she has not been shocked (to my knowledge). In fact, I don’t even replace the batteries anymore. This may be a testament to the training, it may be due to her disposition, or it may be a combination.
But you can train a dog to respect boundaries even without the invisible fence. A good dog doesn’t need anything more than a clear indicator of where the boundaries are: This could be something as small as one of those foot-high decorative fences, or even something like a change in the texture of the lawn.
That’s generally why the Invisible Fence company installed two large-ish signs on my property that say “Dog Contained By Invisible Fence”.
Still I suppose I can see your point. One of my dogs is an 85lb ball of muscle Boxer dog that does indeed rush up to the very border in the front yard barking his head off at people walking by. I have to concede a certain level of amusement at this though, especially folks with little yipster dogs. Most of the folks are my immediate neighbors and after maybe one scare, they know Riley can’t get them as they are also trained by the presence of the fence.
An impenetrable wall of text?
Yeah, that works great. A dog runs away, and when he comes back, he gets a beating. What’s wrong with this picture?
That depends on the dog. A dog with a strong prey drive can be the Best Dog Ever and still not respect a boundary when a squirrel or a rabbit is on the other side. Folks who work Jack Russell Terriers have to take along shovels to dig their dogs out of the tunnels they chase prey into. Once on the quarry, they won’t get off until one of them is dead.
My beagle mix is like that. We have a lot of deer around here and they drive her bonkers. If her battery in her collar is even a bit low, she says screw the invisible fence and gives chase. She’s disappeared twice like that on us now, once for almost a week (she was found by a neighborhood family like two weeks after we moved into the house and had the fence installed).
That highlights another problem with invisible fences. Once the dog is out, he is dissuaded from returning by the potential for a shock. Also, an invisible fence doesn’t keep varmints out like a barrier fence would.
Whoosh.