Obviously if you’re involved in the canning process, you’d know. However. . .
I’ve been in corporata America for many, many years. I’ve seen quite a few people get canned for the usual reasons: substance abuse, poor performance, theft, etc.
In none of those cases, have ever, even once, been aware that someone was being fired. That is, that someone had been summoned [to somewhere], given the lowdown, and escorted off the premises. Never, even with immediate co-workers, so they apparently are really efficiently quick about doing the deed. I already knew that they were on thin ice, and would probably get fired–but I never actually saw it happen in real time. It was only after we get terse message announcing that they were no longer employed and were not to be admitted on company property without an escort.
Out of curiosity, I asked an HR person once, off company time and premises, how someone gets fired, and his only response was “Corporate Security gets involved.” That was all he said. I was expecting something like, “Well, employee X gets a message saying that he/she has a meeting, and, Surprise! There’s someone from HR and Security there, etc.”
So. . . how 'bout it? Anyone else–not involved with a firing personally–get to see how these things work?
I work for a large aerospace company located in the Seattle area. The usual process here is a tag team process. The soon to be ex employee’s supervisor rounds up a union steward, a different supervisor finds the designated employee. All 4 meet with an HR rep and a couple of plant security folks in an out of the way spot. The HR rep tells the employee why he/she is being canned, his/her supervison makes a statement then the union steward tell the person what the union can do for him/her. One of the security folks and the union steward go collect the ex employee’s stuff then all go the the main security office where the person gets his/her paperwork, final paycheck and some other info. The union steward will usually meet the person at a local union hall so it can be determined if a greivance should be filed.
During my 3 year stint as a steward, I went through this only 4 times. 2 were expected, one had attendance problems and the other had been caught drinking on company property a few days earlier. 1 was a mild surprise, the employee had been leaving company propery and claiming overtime for the time. The last was a total shock, a 30+ year employee was caught stealing from another employee.
Most employees find out about a firing the next morning at work when someone else is assigned the ex employee’s job.
I worked for several years on the Payroll & Personnel computer systems for a major bank chain. So I had a lot of interaction with the people in that area, and talked about this with them on occasion.
This is how it worked there:
the soon-to-be ex-employee was called into a meeting.
in the meeting, their manager informed them they were being canned, and explains why. Then they exit the meeting, and leave them with an HR person, who explains all the details about severance, continuing insurance, etc.
meanwhile, while they are still in that meeting, their manager contacted data security and cut off their computer logon id.
after the meeting, the person came back to their desk to get their personal possessions. Sometimes they packed them up themself; sometimes the manager had already had someone else do that for them. Nice managers arranged that none of their co-workers were around to see this, usually by calling them all into a meeting (often, to announce that their fellow worker was now an ex-worker). Sometimes a time was scheduled a day or so later for them to come & pack up their possessions, generally at an early or late time when the other workers weren’t around.
in almost all positions (especially in data processing or dealing with money), they were given 2 weeks pay instead of 2 weeks notice, and were escorted off the company premises right then, generally by a company security guard.
So as a co-worker, you usually found out by seeing the person packing up their belongings with a security guard standing by, or you found out by your boss announcing it in a special meeting. Usually, it wasn’t much of a surprise.
I’ve only seen people canned for poor performance and in some cases everyone has seen it coming, in other cases it has been well publicised after the fact.
In large companies that I have worked for it is usually not discussed. You come in one day and the guy is gone. Sometimes we would get an email saying he had decided to pursue other opportunities.
Usually the rumor mill knows something, both before and after, but often those are erroneous.
So far these are all examples of how firings take place in white-collar environments (which is what I work in, and they are generally discreet about such things and would rather not make a big spectacle of firing someone). What’s it like in blue-collar workplaces? I imagine it’s a more direct, “You’re fired!” from the foreman, being said in front of other workers.
Back in my IT days, it was rare to see people fired. Usually because you’re in higher cube walls and don’t tend to think much of seeing people go to meetings when everyone is doing such things all day long. Billy-Bob gets called to a meeting, then he’s gone. You find out that he was fired a couple of days later when you notice you haven’t seen him in a couple of days and ask.
Working Security, I saw a few people fired. But you’re in closer proximity to the people you work with and find out faster.
In the Call Center I now work in, I’ve seen a lot of people fired. Generally for attendance issues. But with a wide open floor space, it’s easy to see when Josh comes in late, gets hauled off and then they pack up his desk and escort him out. It’s also easier to notice when Josh is late every day and/or skipping out on work. (And yes, I just had a co-worker named Josh fired for those same things. It’s amazing how many of these people just can’t manage to get to work on-time on a regular basis or have bs excuses for not showing up.)
Another side effect of telecommuting – not knowing a damn thing about who gets canned anymore. Unless someone is part of my direct team, there’s a good chance I won’t know that they’re gone.
Earlier this week I sent out an e-mail to those in my football pool, asking who was back in this coming season – about a dozen of them are co-workers. I got back four auto-replies, letting me know that those people are no longer with the company. News to me.
I would know, but I’m a manager. We have a committee that looks at people on the block, and membership on that committee rotates through the staff; we’re not allowed to skip a turn.
In my first corporate IT job, I was informed in advance about a round of layoffs so I could arrange to terminate network access and pull together a list of company-owned laptops and other computer hardware that the soon-to-be terminated employees normally took home. That was a short meeting with one of the financial officers, and no names were mentioned, just the department where the layoffs would be happening. I never had warning about firings for cause, though - those folks just stopped showing up and I’d get a request to terminate their network access and email.
I was fired many years back, asshole boss must have told people, since when I walked into work on a Monday morning, people (my peers) were shocked and asking me what I was doing there. Duh! Coming to WORK! 20 minutes later I got called in and told.
Boss and I didn’t get along at all, and he was the boss. I lost. I learned how to better behave around asshole bosses since then.
I once had the complementary situation; I and everyone else had been told the night before that the fellow in the desk next–call him “Bob”–to me was going to be offered/compelled to accept an early retirement package as part of the first in a cycle of RIFs. I get to work about an hour late after and appointment and see Bob sitting at his desk, not really doing anything. Wanting to avoid the whole “Do I just not look at you until you say anything, or try to pretend like I don’t know what happened,” awkwardness, I extended my hand over the half-wall and said, “It’s been good working with you, Bob, and I learned a lot from you.” It was at this point that Bob realized why he couldn’t log into his machine, and I shortly thereafter realized that no one had made it a point to mention his impending forced retirement. The effing engineering manager didn’t even call Bob into his office until just before lunch. I’m not clear what management was expecting Bob to do for the entire morning while they sat on their collective thumb, but it was an uncomfortable experience for all involved. When they cut me loose on RIF #3, the manager’s flunky (who was instrumental in getting me on the r.l.) came over to my cube and in front of Yog and world told me to pack my stuff into the box he handed me and report to Human Resources. Fantastic job, I miss it like jock itch.
This is an illustration why it is a very good reason to have an efficient, well-planned process for layoffs and firings that involves isolating the employee to be released, like the “tag team” described above. It is not only easier for the management (and believe it or not, layoffs are often more stressful for the stuckee that has to deliver the message than the recipient) and for office/plant morale, but it is also better for the employee being removed. Like breaking up or removing a bandage, while it might seem kinder to offer advance notice and allow the employee to say a round of goodbyes, it is better to have it done at once, and generally on a Friday or a day before a holiday, so that they former employee doesn’t wake up the next day having the subconscious plan of going to work. There is also the security aspect, both of theft or sabotage of proprietary information and tools, and the (hopefully remote) possibility of a angry or violent outburst.
Layoffs and firings suck for everyone, but I have to say that every job I’ve been released or resigned from, whether because of faltering revenue, professional disagreement, or ethical incompatibility has been, after the initial shock, a dramatic relief and ultimately a good move.
Last job before starting my business. I had been planning it for months, I was ready to go, was just stalling while I waited for the next round of phone books came out. Was about 6 weeks to the phone book.
I Knew they would have a hard time replacing me, so I gave 30 days notice. I watched with great amusement as they interviewed dozens of people and none would do it for what they were offering. At week 3 I came in to work at 6am, nobody else comes in till 8 or so. I found I could not login, I called IT, they said there was a problem with my account and that it would be a few hours till it was sorted out. I found something else useful to do.
8:15 crew is all settled in on task, manager calls me to his office. Tells me thank you for giving them time to find someone, here is your check for the duration of your 30 days notice/vacation/etc. Pack up and good luck in your new biz.
I found out via several co-workers the reason why was that people were scared I had some elaborate plan to screw up the inventory, and wanted me out to make sure I did not have time for my devious plot to unfold :rolleyes:
I work in goverment and just about everybody ( right up through much of middle management ) is unionized. Consequently nothing happens too quickly and gossip chains usually outpace management decisions. Indeed it is common for bottom-level employees to know more about what is going on than lower and middle management outside of those immediately involved in the issue. Since non-probationary terminations are usually the outgrowth of progressive discipline, most everybody is generally aware of it coming down, or at least know it’s a possibility. So shocks are rare.
However since I work out in the boonies relative to various central offices, I tend to hear at a day or two removed, except in the rare case my tiny unit is directly affected ( twice in the last 13 or 14 years, both resignations in lieu of termination as I recall, which is typical to avoid a more drawn out process ).
I had a rough time in my last two jobs as I was the systems admin and I’d be the first to know. I’d have to off them on the systems. Actually if I wanted to I could read the emails and find out the details too.
But that it was usually a mess, what I hated was my office was right next to the GM so I’d be in the center of traffic, and like if someone was stealing, they’d let him continue for a bit to get evidence, and you’d really want to say “Hey DUMMY, they’re on to you.” LOL
Usually everyone who was management was terminated the day the gave their notice anyway, which quickly led everyone to giving their notice five minutes before their shift ended to make sure they got paid for a whole day.
The very odd thing was when I was let go I was given two weeks notice and not taken off the system. I knew it was coming anyway, and said "Well today’s the day I get it, and I was ready to leave, but no, they kept me on for the full two weeks and oddly enough, six months later I found no one zapped me off the Internet access either. So I could’ve done a lot of damage if I wanted to.
I’ve worked at a lot of places where if they fire you or the day you give notice, H/R comes up and you go through your desk piece by piece and they make sure nothing you take is company or of the company, like your sales contacts etc. Then the H/R person escorts you out.
Part-time movie theater employee here. Coworker gets called to the office. She comes back down to the concession stand, where I’m cleaning something, where I offer up my usual, joking, coming back from getting called to the office question: “Get fired?” She just looked at me and went back into the back area. Twenty minutes later, I asked the manager when she was coming back. Answer: “never. Keep it on the down low, okay?” So I knew about that one, and in that case, it was obvious why. (had completely flaked out on a shift, no phone call, no nothing.) Generally, the management tries to keep it a secret, but it’s fairly obvious when a person suddenly starts getting no hours. Reasons are usually vague though.
This reminds of another job I had, this one at a very small company. The boss (“Bossman”) was basically a good guy, but he had few social skills and wasn’t good at thinking ahead. I was, among other roles, the network administrator.
One day Bossman determined that he needed to let one of the sales reps (we’ll call him “Ed”) go. I don’t remember why - I think he just needed to cut expenses, and Ed was an easy target. In any case, Bossman came to me early in he morning before Ed showed up, and explained that Ed was being let go and I was to terminate his email and network access immediately. He said he’d give Ed the bad news as soon as he came in.
When Ed came in, the very first thing he tried to do was log in to the network and check his email. When this didn’t work, he came to me in a state of consternation, explaining that he couldn’t log in, blah, blah, blah. It was obvious that he and Bossman hadn’t talked. All I could do was say, “Have you talked to Bossman today? You need to talk to Bossman about this. I know you can’t get your mail. No, I can’t fix your account - you need to talk to Bossman now.”
For me, it’s depended upon the level of the person getting fired. In the Fortune 500 where I used to work, if it was one of the senior management team, all of a sudden one day they’re gone. If it was someone under them (meaning senior director or below), it was usually pretty predictable that they would get fired - just a matter of when. And it was generally pretty obvious when things were coming to a head - there were “discrete” HR inquiries, then a few weeks later, the person was pulled into a meeting while the rest of the team was pulled into another one and told what was happening. Depending upon the time of the firing, we were often invited to a happy hour, probably so we didn’t see security escorting the employee out. Then when we got back, they were gone.
The most common things I’ve seen people fired for were sexual harassment, workplace harassment, improper use of funds and, only occasionally, incompetence. It’s amazing how long companies will keep someone, even if they’re harassing other employees.