Mad-Men 3.11, The Gypsy & the Hobo (open spoilers)

[alphaboi867]

Finally we get to see Joan again.

[Kid_A]

So how long has it been since dog food didn't have horse meat in it? Does 1963 sound about right?

[Mixolydian]

The fit has hit the shan...classic timing there on those travel plans, whatsyername.....DICK?

[The Weird One]

GO JOAN!!!

Don, don't stick your Dick in the crazy.

[Kid_A]

Fall of 1963...joining the army; he isn't coming back.

And Don just came out of the closet. Well, not quite but you know what I mean.

[Captain Amazing]

So, Dr. Rape has joined the army? I'm sure that Vietnam thing will be over by the time he finishes his New York residency.

[alphaboi867]

I could've done with less Roger/horsemeat lady and more Joan/Greg, but damn the Don/Betty stuff was good. Don was finally honest with Betty and treated her as a adult. Now all we need is for Miss Teacher to walk into the house (has Don forfotten she's sitting in their driveway this whole time.)

[alphaboi867]

Oh, and Don's comment about store-bought Halloween costumes being plastic crap that the kids only wear once? My mother was saying the same thing to me a couple days ago (she's about Sally's age). When she was a little girl they made their own costumes out of old clothes, drapes, etc and "had more fun than kid's these days with their cheap plastic crap". Also, wasn't Don & Betty going trick-or-treating with their kids a little odd for the time period. Sure now it would be perfectly normally, but in the 60s wouldn't they just sent Sally and the boy out on their own?

[astro]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Oh, and Don's comment about store-bought Halloween costumes being plastic crap that the kids only wear once? My mother was saying the same thing to me a couple days ago (she's about Sally's age). When she was a little girl they made their own costumes out of old clothes, drapes, etc and "had more fun than kid's these days with their cheap plastic crap". Also, wasn't Don & Betty going trick-or-treating with their kids a little odd for the time period. Sure now it would be perfectly normally, but in the 60s wouldn't they just sent Sally and the boy out on their own?

I haven't seen the current Ep 11 show yet, but the kids are quite young. Even in 1963 a dad would escort grade schoolers if there was no older sibling available. The concern was more getting run over vs molestation etc.

[Dewey Finn]

I wondered why Betty didn't stay home to hand out candy to the other children. (But perhaps Carla was there for that; we haven't seen her lately.)

BTW, it was amazing how flustered Don was when he realized Betty had seen his secret drawer. He's normally such a cool character. (Assuming that she accepts his background, will that resolve some of his issues?)

And I liked the part when the attorney told her that she could get a divorce if she could prove adultery. That shouldn't be hard.

[The Weird One]

Wow! I think that was the best episode of the season. I LOVED watching Don and Betty. That's the first time we've ever seen Don being honest with anyone. And Roger turning down What's-Her-Face, the dog food lady, was the first time we've seen a man refuse to cheat on his wife.

Poor teacher, but I'm glad she walked home instead of going in to Don's house and making a scene. It's better for her and Don to break up now; she was already getting too attached to Don.

So, Dr. Rape joined the army. Not a bad choice, given his options, except for the whole Vietnam thing. I wonder what the casualty rate was for army surgeons in Vietnam. Joan will make a fine army wife - from what I hear, there's at least as much politicking amongst army wives as there was in the secretarial pool. I would've rather seen her return to the television department at Sterling-Cooper, but it doesn't look like that's in the cards anymore.

alphaboi, I was also surprised to see Don and Betty going out trick-or-treating with their kids. But Weiner needed to set up that line somehow.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

And I liked the part when the attorney told her that she could get a divorce if she could prove adultery. That shouldn't be hard.

I think in 1963 that required photos in flagrante delicto. Good for the private eye biz, though.

[AuntiePam]

Are we to assume that the house was Gene's entire estate? No life insurance, no stocks and bonds? I don't recall if his financial situation was addressed in prior episodes.

Do you think the lawyer was honest with Betty, or was he just trying to dissuade her? "Don could take the kids -- you won't be left with anything" -- ? Seems unlikely.

I'm feeling better about Suzanne. She doesn't seem crazy anymore, just ahead of her time. Something she said made me think she'd been in that situation before, but now I can't remember what it was.

Don seems relieved that it's in the open. The main question is whether Betty will treat him differently, maybe not defer to him all the time. I liked that comment about how he didn't know anything about money. A tiny hint that she'll assert some power in the relationship?

So far, this is the episode Jon Hamm needs to submit for his next Emmy. He does have one, doesn't he?

[Gangster Octopus]

I love the episode but man they sure do make it obviou dsometimes. Don lighting up a cigarette as the dog food lady mentioned her husband died of lung cancer. The final line of the show.

[friedo]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

I could've done with less Roger/horsemeat lady and more Joan/Greg, but damn the Don/Betty stuff was good. Don was finally honest with Betty and treated her as a adult.

Not an entirely honest. He said "they made a mistake" instead of "I deliberately switched my dog tags with his." The way he tells the story, he comes off as a reluctant victim of happenstance, rather than a deserter and identity thief.

ETA: The last line of the episode was Epic.

[Dorothea Book]

Originally Posted by friedo

Not an entirely honest. He said "they made a mistake" instead of "I deliberately switched my dog tags with his." The way he tells the story, he comes off as a reluctant victim of happenstance, rather than a deserter and identity thief.

ETA: The last line of the episode was Epic.

Nitpick: He doesn't admit to desertion, no, but he does admit to identity theft.

[Dorothea Book]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Now all we need is for Miss Teacher to walk into the house (has Don forfotten she's sitting in their driveway this whole time.)

I don't think he forgot at all.

[corkboard]

Re: the last line- it was almost as if the multiple-season storyline about Don's identity was all a setup for that payoff. It would have been so much less heavy-handed if the dialogue had continued, maybe with just the slightest pause after the neighbor's question.

Still, a great episode. Loved Joan's retaliation for hubby acting like a dick, smashing the vase over his head. I don't think he'll be raping her any time soon; the balance of power has shifted in that relationship.

As it has in Don & Betty's marriage. And I guess you can make the same argument wrt Roger- now he finally exerts control over his libido, and is not so quick to cave in when a woman shows some interest in sleeping with him.

[Lightray]

I think Don completely forgot about the School Tart out in his car.

I also think we saw a glimmer of Betty acting like an adult, for once, after she saw Dick's facade of Don completely crack.

Originally Posted by Kid_A

Fall of 1963...joining the army; he isn't coming back.

My thought was, "Ah! That's why Joan will be back at Sterling-Cooper: widowed."

Of course, by then it probably won't be "Sterling-Cooper"...

[Jophiel]

The last line came off a bit fake to me and, as said, heavy-handed. I mean, we had Cooper asking Don "Who's really signing this thing anyway?" just three weeks or so ago. I don't need an obvious reminder every couple episodes that Don's life is based around a deception.

What I did like was the change in Betty's attitude (or the marriage dynamic, whatever) after Don opened up about his family and history. Compare her throwing him out of the house for a month back in S2 to Don making the obvious offer for her to not have to spend time with him trick-or-treating and her opting to make it a full family event.

I suppose it won't happen because Dr. Rape is off for war but otherwise I'd be worried about Joan having the power in the marriage. We all know how it turned out the last time he felt out of power by her.

[Dorothea Book]

On forgot versus didn't forget (Suzanne in the car).

I think he was amazed in the root sense of that word. Everything changed in that second. And, yes, corkboard Betty became able to exert a kind of control she almost never has ("You don't get to ask the questions!").

His reflex--to give her the reckoning he knows she deserves rather than walk out the door ("I'm not going anywhere")--showed him something that maybe he himself never fully realized: that he really doesn't want to lose her and his children.

And so I think he didn't forget that Suzanne was in the car: but a) there wasn't much that he could do (persuade Betty that in the middle of this major life crisis he was really worried about his hat?) and, more important, b) the whole escapist fantasy of sex and romance with Suzanne, (yet another secret identity within his secret identity) had evaporated and he needed to focus on what he absolutely could not bear to lose.

The fantasy may well come back to haunt him (as in that brother with his business card). But for now (at any rate the now of this episode since who knows how far into the future we'll spring next week) he is Betty's unmasked husband. Knowing that Suzanne would end up walking home alone was just the inevitable complement to that--not absent-mindedness but karma catching up with him.

OTOH, the reemergence of Dick Whitman seems like a good thing; like a weight of guilt and repression lost and the ability to reflect on and accept the past.

I personally do not believe that this character can change or be happy. But Don looks more at peace with himself talking about and acknowledging the existence of Dick than he ever did working so hard to forget him.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Lightray

...My thought was, "Ah! That's why Joan will be back at Sterling-Cooper: widowed."

Of course, by then it probably won't be "Sterling-Cooper"...

I wonder if she find an excuse to keep working despite Greg's enlistment (commisioning?). She's already fallen for "You won't have to work anymore" twice before, the 2nd time she ended working retail. Unless Christina Hendricks is leaving the show (it is coming back for a 4th season, right?) Joan has to find some way to rejoin the main cast. It'll be weird if everyone else is off working at an ad agency and she's just off on her own interacting with army wives and not anybody else.

[salinqmind]

Originally Posted by corkboard

As it has in Don & Betty's marriage. And I guess you can make the same argument wrt Roger- now he finally exerts control over his libido, and is not so quick to cave in when a woman shows some interest in sleeping with him.

Oh, I don't know about that. On another board someone pointed out that the dog food lady and young-wife-Jane look an awful lot alike. I think Roger was scared being faced with a vision of aged-Jane and blew her off because she's a reminder the clock is ticking for him, even if he does have a child bride now. I was, frankly, surprised one of the biggest most insecure man-hos on the show turned down a quickie.

[Dorothea Book]

Or here's another thought. Maybe it's less to do with him turning down a quickie and more to do with saying no (and kind of rubbing it in at that!) to the woman he blew him off years ago. Good as she looked there is no level playing field between a man and woman of that age, esp. not in 1963. He seemed pretty happy with himself...

I suspect the dog food plot is also another way of thinking about Don's identity. In the dog food case the name was tainted even thought what's inside the can was not. Is Don the reverse?

[Jophiel]

Speaking of the dog food lady, I didn't quite catch her company name but it sounded close enough to Kal Kan that I thought that's where they were going with it. According to this though, Kal Kan was originally Stirling Packing Company -- most definitely not the dog food lady's company.

[CrazyCatLady]

It sounded like she was saying Caldecott Farms.

[h.sapiens]

The name of the dog food company was Caldecott Farms. The first couple of pages of Google hits are mostly for Mad Men episode recaps, so I assume it is a fictional company.

Fantastic episode. Can it be that Don put his marriage on the road to something resembling normalcy by simply (mostly) telling the truth? Shock, horror!

Loved the kids' costumes. Nobody dresses like a hobo anymore.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Originally Posted by Dorothea Book

I don't think he forgot at all.

Nor do I. There was simply nothing to do about it that would not (most likely) make the already bad situation worse. The best he could do was to hope she'd not come in and make a scene, nor be scene getting out of his car.

And, as it turned out, his hopes were neither groundless nor unanswered. Suzanne could not expose him without risking her job, and, luckily for Don, was rational enough to understand that.

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady

It sounded like she was saying Caldecott Farms.

Ah, see I was hearing the "C" as a "K"... Cal.. Kal... it all works if you're in my head

[Sam Stone]

Great episode - until the last line. That was ham-fisted. We got the metaphor of all the masked kids on Halloween right away, and that last line was just unnecessary. And it didn't make sense - why would anyone ask Don that, when he's standing there dressed absolutely normal? It would have been better if the person at the door had said, "Who are you supposed to be?" to one of the kids, and the camera had just panned up to Don. As it was, it was an uncharacteristically overwritten line in an otherwise nuanced show.

My theory on the arc of this show - The first season started with Don Draper absolutely in command of his company and himself. He could do no wrong. He was on top of the world. Then we slowly discovered cracks in the armor, and eventually that the whole thing was a charade. That set up the start of his downfall. This season, Don had come close to hitting bottom. Sterling Cooper is losing clients. Don isn't very good at his job. His life was spiraling out of control, and all due to the inner tension of his being someone he's not and the stress of hiding it.

But now the dam has broken. His wife knows his secrets. His company knows his secret - and everyone is pretty much okay with it. Maybe not happy about it, but his life isn't falling down around him. And now he'll realize that they don't just want 'Don Draper', they want him.

My prediction is that we headed for a redemptive cycle in the arc. The next season is going to be about Don regaining his confidence, his wife's love, and his mastery of his profession, except now on his terms.

And this being Mad Men, I wonder if the whole story of Don Draper isn't a metaphor for the 1960's - at the turn of the decade, everyone wore a mask. Society was buttoned down. There was plenty of discontent and plenty of social injustice, but we kept it hidden away. The outer facade was one of cool and calm. Housewives were supposed to be happy. The men stoic and loyal. But underneath the facade was alcohol and tobacco abuse, philandering husbands, unhappy, unfulfilled wives, etc.

Starting after Kennedy's assassination, things started to change. The mask came off. Notice that this episode happened on Oct 31, 1963 - 22 days before Kennedy was shot. I suspect the season will end with Kennedy's assassination.

Then there are the hanging threads - why are we still following Joan if she's not part of SC any more? What of the news that the firm is up for sale? I think something dramatic is still going to happen around all this. I had thought that Don might head off and start his own agency, picking up Joan as office manager and taking Peggy and a couple of others with him, but now that he's under contract that can't really happen. Maybe Don will buy out the brits, using Conrad Hilton as a backer? That would be interesting.

[HelloNinja]

When Roger turned down the dog food lady, and then had the conversation with her where he told her that she wasn't "the one" for him.... I don't think he was talking about Jane. Notice that he was up late calling friends/contacts trying to help Joan get work, and said "she's very important to me."

I think that they're telling us that Joan is Roger's "one."

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by Sam Stone

Great episode - until the last line. That was ham-fisted. We got the metaphor of all the masked kids on Halloween right away, and that last line was just unnecessary. And it didn't make sense - why would anyone ask Don that, when he's standing there dressed absolutely normal? It would have been better if the person at the door had said, "Who are you supposed to be?" to one of the kids, and the camera had just panned up to Don. As it was, it was an uncharacteristically overwritten line in an otherwise nuanced show.

Really? You've never taken little kids out trick-or-treating, and have other adults ask who you're dressed up as, for a joke?

[Dorothea Book]

Gotta agree with Lightray. I've been asked similar things by neighbors when I've taken my kids out (and usually want to whack them for their corny-ness!).

Here's something more subtle, Sam. Did you notice the song at the end. "Where is Love?" from the music Oliver Twist. Sung by little Oliver, a boy who doesn't know his true identity and only gradually discovers it...

[corkboard]

Originally Posted by Sam Stone

My prediction is that we headed for a redemptive cycle in the arc. The next season is going to be about Don regaining his confidence, his wife's love, and his mastery of his profession, except now on his terms.

Sounds like a boring show.

[Push You Down]

Originally Posted by h.sapiens

Loved the kids' costumes. Nobody dresses like a hobo anymore.

I really appreciated that costume. I dressed as a hobo.. basically an identical costume to that little boy's a couple of times when I was his age. This was the early 80s.


Amazing episode. Don looked smaller and weaker and Betty looked strong during his confession scene.
I really liked her aside about Don not understanding money.

[niblet_head]

I thought it was interesting that she knows divorce is impossible. Does he? Does he even realize in the far reaches of his mind that she'd be sooooo out of there if she could?

I laughed outloud at Joan's line to Roger about figuring out something for himself. I bet Admins all over the country found that funny...

[kevja]

Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer

Nor do I. There was simply nothing to do about it that would not (most likely) make the already bad situation worse. The best he could do was to hope she'd not come in and make a scene, nor be scene getting out of his car.

And, as it turned out, his hopes were neither groundless nor unanswered. Suzanne could not expose him without risking her job, and, luckily for Don, was rational enough to understand that.

I agree. But if this storyline continues, Suzanne's brother, with Don's business card, might be more trouble for Don than anything Suzanne does.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by kevja

I agree. But if this storyline continues, Suzanne's brother, with Don's business card, might be more trouble for Don than anything Suzanne does.

Yeah. It's unlikely that his appearance was a one-off.

Not a spoiler but I'll box it anyway. On the Inside Mad Men video for this episode, January Jones

SPOILER:

explains that Betty was intending to leave Don. The lawyer talked her out of it. There are also comments from Jones, Weiner, and Hamm about whether or not Betty and Don really love each other. It's worth a look.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Originally Posted by kevja

I agree. But if this storyline continues, Suzanne's brother, with Don's business card, might be more trouble for Don than anything Suzanne does.

Quite so.

[gallows fodder]

Originally Posted by Lightray

My thought was, "Ah! That's why Joan will be back at Sterling-Cooper: widowed."

Of course, by then it probably won't be "Sterling-Cooper"...

Not likely (unfortunately) -- he'll be a surgeon, not a field medic.

[Motorgirl]

Originally Posted by gallows fodder

Not likely (unfortunately) -- he'll be a surgeon, not a field medic.

Are we sure? Sounds like he's not a very good surgeon.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Sam Stone

...I had thought that Don might head off and start his own agency, picking up Joan as office manager and taking Peggy and a couple of others with him, but now that he's under contract that can't really happen. Maybe Don will buy out the brits, using Conrad Hilton as a backer? That would be interesting.

Contracts can be broken. And Bert Cooper (& Pete Cambell) are the only ones at Sterling-Cooper that know about Don's past. IANAL, but what if the Brits can't find a buyer and just decide to "close up" Sterling-Cooper and sell the assets? Does that void Don's contract? Who would be able to sue him for breaching it? The London guys who no longer even have an office in NYC? Why would they care?

Originally Posted by gallows fodder

...Not likely (unfortunately) -- he'll be a surgeon, not a field medic.

Still it's a great way to get Greg out of the show while keeping Joan in and letting her "save face". She can just tell people she's working because it's so boring at home with Greg overseas. This all falls appart if she get's pregnant though. Or Greg could end up stuck at the local MEPS doing draft physicals.

[Dewey Finn]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Contracts can be broken. And Bert Cooper (& Pete Cambell) are the only ones at Sterling-Cooper that know about Don's past. IANAL, but what if the Brits can't find a buyer and just decide to "close up" Sterling-Cooper and sell the assets? Does that void Don's contract? Who would be able to sue him for breaching it? The London guys who no longer even have an office in NYC? Why would they care?

What assets, though? An advertising agency is mostly intangibles. And actually, Don himself is probably one of the most valuable assets.

[JXJohns]

Originally Posted by kevja

I agree. But if this storyline continues, Suzanne's brother, with Don's business card, might be more trouble for Don than anything Suzanne does.

How so? He's a shiftless bum who has "fits" who found Don's card. Any real trouble that comes out of it will be a stretch.

[AuntiePam]

If he has a seizure and is hospitalized (or dies), someone will look for next of kin. Unless he carries Suzanne's name and address around with him, Don's a possible choice to get the phone call. That story line has to go somewhere. It's too odd to be meaningless.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

IANAL, but what if the Brits can't find a buyer and just decide to "close up" Sterling-Cooper and sell the assets?

The Brits are under no pressure to sell. They see an opportunity to profit on their investment, something will only happen if the company is sold as a going concern.

[MichaelQReilly]

Originally Posted by salinqmind

Oh, I don't know about that. On another board someone pointed out that the dog food lady and young-wife-Jane look an awful lot alike. I think Roger was scared being faced with a vision of aged-Jane and blew her off because she's a reminder the clock is ticking for him, even if he does have a child bride now. I was, frankly, surprised one of the biggest most insecure man-hos on the show turned down a quickie.

I'm not sure Roger turned her down for his wife's sake, even if that's what he said. The way that story was juxtaposed with his interaction with Joan, I think that when he told Dog Food Lady that she wasn't the one the woman he really had in mind was Joan.

Edit: Looks like somebody beat me to it.

[MichaelQReilly]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

If he has a seizure and is hospitalized (or dies), someone will look for next of kin. Unless he carries Suzanne's name and address around with him, Don's a possible choice to get the phone call. That story line has to go somewhere. It's too odd to be meaningless.

If nothing else, it demonstrated Don's continued guilt over his treatment of his own brother.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Push You Down

I really appreciated that costume. I dressed as a hobo.. basically an identical costume to that little boy's a couple of times when I was his age. This was the early 80s.

Gee, and I thought I was special since I was about his age at the time and "hobo" was the default costume. I must've been a hobo 3 or 4 times growing up. I loved that part of the show.

I also thought the parents going along was odd. I don't ever recall my parents tagging along for trick or treat-- that was what made it so much fun.

Good episode. I won't repeat all the stuff everyone has already said.

[mhendo]

Excellent episode.

There's also a good article about Mad Men in this month's Atlantic Monthly. I'm a subscriber, so i'm logged in to their website, but i think the whole article might be free for everyone.

Link