Holiday Inn's controversial scene has been removed by AMC

[Sticks and Scones]

I'm referring to the scene where Jim and Linda perform in blackface in order to elude discovery by Ted.

Thoughts?

[Amazingrace]

It was definitely there last year. I remember it clearly, because my mom purchased a bunch of movies for us to watch on Christmas--including Holiday Inn, which I had never seen before. My jaw dropped when I saw that scene. A couple of days later, flipping channels, what did I hear but, "Abraham!"

I was very surprised to see that they still showed that scene on TV.

[DrDeth]

It has been removed in a number of versions. Don't blame AMC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_(film)

[Amazingrace]

After looking at that link, maybe I caught the TCM version last year. Oops.

[Sticks and Scones]

Originally Posted by Amazingrace

After looking at that link, maybe I caught the TCM version last year. Oops.

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing.

[FriarTed]

Now I'm thinking I better buy the DVD!

[cochrane]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

It has been removed in a number of versions. Don't blame AMC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_(film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_(film)

Fixed the link. You didn't close the parentheses around the word "film" inside the [url] tag.

[C K Dexter Haven]

We recently bought the original Popeye cartoons, which came with a disclaimer (I'm paraphrasing), something like, "These cartoons contain stereotypes which were wrong then and are wrong now. However, to pretend they didn't exist would be to deny the history of mistreatment, and fail to learn from the past." Their wording was much better, but that was the gist. I thought that was the right way to handle it.

[randwill]

Changing artifacts of the past that don't reflect popular current thinking seems wrong to me.

[Eutychus]

Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven

We recently bought the original Popeye cartoons, which came with a disclaimer (I'm paraphrasing), something like, "These cartoons contain stereotypes which were wrong then and are wrong now. However, to pretend they didn't exist would be to deny the history of mistreatment, and fail to learn from the past." Their wording was much better, but that was the gist. I thought that was the right way to handle it.

Disney has been doing the same thing with their release of a lot of the classic cartoon shorts.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Eutychus

Disney has been doing the same thing with their release of a lot of the classic cartoon shorts.

Except Song of the South:

The film has never been released in its entirety on home video in the USA because of content which Disney executives believe would be construed by some as racially insensitive towards blacks...

[Eutychus]

Originally Posted by Musicat

Except Song of the South:

Which is why I included the caveat "shorts."

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Eutychus

Which is why I included the caveat "shorts."

OK, but Disney has released parts (animated parts) of the movie, which kinda makes it into shorts. Don't know if they include the disclaimer, but if they edit it carefully, they may not have to.

[Eutychus]

Originally Posted by Musicat

OK, but Disney has released parts (animated parts) of the movie, which kinda makes it into shorts. Don't know if they include the disclaimer, but if they edit it carefully, they may not have to.

Well, no, it doesn't really. So, let me make it a bit clearer.

Disney has been doing the same thing with their release of a lot of the classic cartoon shorts which they have not done with the feature films (i.e. Song of the South, Fantasia, etc.)

[CalMeacham]

You didn't close the parentheses around the word "film" inside the [url] tag.

Probably not his fault. This happened to me when I simply copied the URL from the box and pasted it -- and i made sure that I copied the entire URL. Some systems seem to want to "correct" things.

[Oredigger77]

Originally Posted by FriarTed

Now I'm thinking I better buy the DVD!

I bought the DVD for the first time a month ago and the black face scene wasn't in there. I had never seen the movie before so I didn't know anything was missing.

I don't understand why people feel the urge to cover up the past I think it's important to see where we came from other wise a lot of things that happened in that context don't make sense. I also worry about classic westerns disappearing due to their insensitivity to the Indians since some of them can't be edited to make sense with out it.

[Markxxx]

I can see why they do it, as long as you can buy the unedited DVD I don't see a problem with it.

It's the same old thing. I recall a "Leave It To Beaver" episode where June fretts about the book "Tom Sawyer," because he among other things, "cusses."

Ward handles this nicely by explaining to Beaver and Wally that cussing and doing things he did were just "part of being a boy, in Tom's day." He says "There was nothing mean or malicious about it and that times change." Then Ward says that since times have changed, while it's OK to enjoy the book the boys shouldn't try to go around doing what Tom did or acting like he did.

Wally and Beaver agree and say "If you did that today you'd be called a delinquent."

Which is ironic since now it's "cool" to have gone to jail and be a delinquent.

[mobo85]

Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven

We recently bought the original Popeye cartoons, which came with a disclaimer (I'm paraphrasing), something like, "These cartoons contain stereotypes which were wrong then and are wrong now. However, to pretend they didn't exist would be to deny the history of mistreatment, and fail to learn from the past." Their wording was much better, but that was the gist. I thought that was the right way to handle it.

This disclaimer appears on many of Warner Bros.'s cartoon collections- the first couple they did featured a statement from Whoopi Goldberg instead. The exact wording is:

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

I agree in that this is the best way to deal with things like that.

[D. Fenestrator]

I hadn't seen Holiday Inn in decades, and bought it on DVD a couple of years ago. I'd forgotten all about the blackface scene, and found it very uncomfortable to watch. That said, it does advance the plot a bit, and I think a disclaimer would serve better than cutting the scene altogether.

[Tim R. Mortiss]

I just watched this movie on AMC last night. They showed the scene where Bing is painting her face in black... and then cut to after the show! It didn't occur to me at the time that a scene was removed, but it makes sense......TRM

[Elendil's Heir]

Originally Posted by mobo85

...I agree in that this is the best way to deal with things like that.

Most definitely.

I watched the Pixar shorts marathon on ABC Family a few weeks ago and noticed that, in Knick Knack, the boobs of the tanning lady have now been made smaller, and the starfish pasties on the mermaid have been replaced by a bikini top. The Wiki article discusses the changes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knick_Knack

[DSYoungEsq]

The edited version has been shown for years. I don't remember seeing the blackface number as a kid in the 70s; I didn't even know there was an issue until some time in the 90s. I have the DVD version, unedited, with the number in it.

I think the "insensitive" part of the idea of blackface wasn't so much the fact that the faces were black, but rather the stereotypical blackface portrayal, which included some implied assertions by "white" culture about "black" culture at the time. That aspect is jarring, but then again, so is the fact that almost all "Asian" characters are played by non-Asians, etc.

[maladroit]

I've never seen the censored version. It's my favorite holiday movie. And thanks a bunch for the earworm "Abrahammmm" :P Now I have to go turn on the radio.

[amarinth]

Originally Posted by Tim R. Mortiss

I just watched this movie on AMC last night. They showed the scene where Bing is painting her face in black... and then cut to after the show! It didn't occur to me at the time that a scene was removed, but it makes sense......TRM

I started to semi-watch the movie on AMC last night. Got to February and noticed all of the servants walking around in blackface and decided "I don't need to see that song & dance again," (I've seen the uncut version before) so I turned the channel and watched something else.

[Lute Skywatcher]

The inclusion of commercials and the editing of movies are why I don't watch AMC anymore.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven

We recently bought the original Popeye cartoons, which came with a disclaimer (I'm paraphrasing), something like, "These cartoons contain stereotypes which were wrong then and are wrong now. However, to pretend they didn't exist would be to deny the history of mistreatment, and fail to learn from the past." Their wording was much better, but that was the gist. I thought that was the right way to handle it.

When Teletoon does their "retro" thing, the disclaimer is along the lines of "This cartoon is true to the time period in which it was produced."

And then I brace myself for characters in blackface.

[Sticks and Scones]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

The inclusion of commercials and the editing of movies are why I don't watch AMC anymore.

Yeah, it was a rare thing for me to actually watch a movie on AMC. But then, Holiday Inn is one of my favorites and I have it on a VHS tape but no longer have a VHS player! (Unedited version, probably from the 80s.)

[mobo85]

Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir

I watched the Pixar shorts marathon on ABC Family a few weeks ago and noticed that, in Knick Knack, the boobs of the tanning lady have now been made smaller, and the starfish pasties on the mermaid have been replaced by a bikini top. The Wiki article discusses the changes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knick_Knack

I could care less about that one way or another. In my opinion, the real loss in the revamped Knick Knack are Bobby McFerrin's last two "blahs" during the closing credits.