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  #1  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:32 PM
Pduol Pduol is offline
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Does anyone else think Word 2007 Sucks? Badly!!

So the company I work for just gave me a new laptop. Great!!! The one I had was about 6 years old.

It came with Office 2007.

I fired up Word 2007 for the first time this morning. At first glance I thought, "Hey this looks pretty cool!"

After playing around with it for I while I came to the conclusion that Microsoft had done something right. Word 2007 is awesome!

Then I had to do some actual work.

Ever have something go from awesome to total shit in about 7 seconds?

What the fuck was microsoft thinking when they built this piece of shit?? Every damn function that I use I have to go on an expedition to find it! Nothing is where I would expect it to be. There's a toilet in the middle of the living room and the kitchen sink is out in the garage. I STILL haven't figured out which light switch controls that big honkin' huge crystal chandelier that's in the broom closet.

And for the love of god, would somebody please tell me how to split a table. You know, that command that you can reach in Word 2003 be clicking on TABLE and then SPLIT TABLE. I've been searching for it for an hour!

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!

I can't wait to try Excel.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:35 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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There ARE some real advantages, actually, but there probably was no need for the radical changes inflicted on society in this iteration.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:37 PM
What Exit? What Exit? is offline
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My understanding is the ribbon is suppose to be a huge help to touchscreen users. I think the new interface is terrible and they needed an option to return to the menu system of old.

On the bright side, they are some really excellent improvements in the file handling and especially the excel capabilities for really large spreadsheets.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:47 PM
RhapsodyInBlue RhapsodyInBlue is offline
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I guess I spent too many years getting used to the old format for MS Office. The new version took some getting used to; I ended up buying "MS Office 2007 for Dummies" which was a big help.

The onscreen/online help section is pretty good, too. If you click the ? in the upper right, it will take you to MS Help. From there, it was two clicks to Table, Split Table to arrive at this direction:

NOTE: To split one table into two tables, you must do the following:

Select the row that you want to be the first row of the second table.
Under Table Tools, on the Layout tab, in the Merge group, click Split Table.

Last edited by RhapsodyInBlue; 12-23-2009 at 04:52 PM..
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2009, 04:56 PM
Pduol Pduol is offline
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Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue View Post
I guess I spent too many years getting used to the old format for MS Office. The new version took some getting used to; I ended up buying "MS Office 2007 for Dummies" which was a big help.

The onscreen/online help section is pretty good, too. If you click the ? in the upper right, it will take you to MS Help. From there, it was two clicks to Table, Split Table to arrive at this direction:

NOTE: To split one table into two tables, you must do the following:

Select the row that you want to be the first row of the second table.
Under Table Tools, on the Layout tab, in the Merge group, click Split Table.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:05 PM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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But seriously, how bassackward is that?

WHERE"S THE FUCKING FILE MENU?!?!? I WANT MY FUCKING FILE MENU BACK!!!!

Ahem. Okay, I'm better now. But seriously, I HATE the new interface. I hate it with the fiery, blistering hatred I usually reserve for telemarketers and people who stand on the left side of the escalator.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:09 PM
amarone amarone is offline
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Originally Posted by Pduol View Post
What the fuck was microsoft thinking when they built this piece of shit?? Every damn function that I use I have to go on an expedition to find it! Nothing is where I would expect it to be. There's a toilet in the middle of the living room and the kitchen sink is out in the garage. I STILL haven't figured out which light switch controls that big honkin' huge crystal chandelier that's in the broom closet.
I felt like that at first. Now having gotten used to Office 2007, I would hate to go back to 2003. There are so many things that are now quicker. Stick with it - not that you have any choice.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Southern Yankee Southern Yankee is offline
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Do a Google search for "Search Commands." It's a free add-in for Office 2007 from Microsoft labs that puts a new ribbon section in with a context-sensitive search bar. You simply type in what you want (i.e., split table) and it brings all the relevant menu options right to the ribbon. The downside is that it doesn't show you how to find them yourselves, but when you're in a crunch and can't find something it works great.

Incidentally, I'm playing with the Office 2010 beta and they already dropped the big ol' Office Button and replaced it with a button just called "File." I suppose they got a lot of hate mail about dropping the File menu bar.

All in all, I have come to like Office 2007, and 2010 has some very useful features as well, but there is definitely a learning curve.

Last edited by Southern Yankee; 12-23-2009 at 05:16 PM..
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Harmonious Discord Harmonious Discord is offline
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I don't know as I'm using Word 97.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:28 PM
Duke Duke is offline
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
On the bright side, they are some really excellent improvements in the file handling and especially the excel capabilities for really large spreadsheets.
Plus in Pivot Tables and in Conditional Formatting, as well. Of course, for those of us who have to deal with it, the 1-million+ lines allowed is pretty nice.

But all the ribbon does is foul up the msoCommandBar commands.
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:38 PM
Runs With Scissors Runs With Scissors is offline
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I just got it on my computer at work.

After five minutes with it, I thought maybe I should offer extra credit to any of my students who are forced to type a paper with it.

One thing I discovered about it accidentally (Read the directions? I think not!) is after you highlight some text, right click...you get a nice pop up of useful commands.

But, in general, they took things that were one step tasks and made then three step tasks...after searching for each step for several minutes.
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  #12  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:47 PM
Pduol Pduol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Yankee View Post
Do a Google search for "Search Commands." It's a free add-in for Office 2007 from Microsoft labs that puts a new ribbon section in with a context-sensitive search bar. You simply type in what you want (i.e., split table) and it brings all the relevant menu options right to the ribbon. The downside is that it doesn't show you how to find them yourselves, but when you're in a crunch and can't find something it works great.
You are a life saver! Thank you for this. Looks like this will also help when I tackle the "new and improved" version of Excel tomorrow.
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:55 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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Originally Posted by stuthehistoryguy View Post
There ARE some real advantages, actually, but there probably was no need for the radical changes inflicted on society in this iteration.
Microsoft: Yeah, but they're macadamia nuts in this shit!


I write/edit extensively with Word and Excel. I'm also pretty tech-savvy and generally love to play around with advanced features and options to unravel programs. I've had this piece of shit for several months now, and am still in the process of getting used to it. A month or so I got fed up with this and that and this and that dagnabbit fricken fracken AAAHHHRRR... so I started a running list of complaints. It's up to about twenty eight items. I was originally thinking of posting it in the Pit (hence to doc title, I hate Word), but will likely put it in GQ in case there are fixes, workarounds, or tips that address the issues.

Oh, there's also a couple add-ons that will help with the OP. One is Ribbon Customizer. Among other things, it recreates the 2003 menu system (File, Tools, Edit, etc.).

I can freely admit that there are some choice macadamia nuts, but that doesn't make up for the overall bucket of diarrhea MS is trying to feed us.
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:08 PM
HookerChemical HookerChemical is offline
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Originally Posted by Pduol View Post
What the fuck was microsoft thinking when they built this piece of shit?? Every damn function that I use I have to go on an expedition to find it! Nothing is where I would expect it to be. There's a toilet in the middle of the living room and the kitchen sink is out in the garage. I STILL haven't figured out which light switch controls that big honkin' huge crystal chandelier that's in the broom closet.
In high school and college, I used Word Perfect. When I graduated, I switched to Open Office. Whenever I switched to Word (because a professor required Word files or work required Word), this is how I felt. I still feel that Office 2003 wired the garage door to the Clapper.

When I got my current job, I had to switch over to Office 2007, and I found it very easy to pick up. I'm Excel guru in my office now. Word still baffles me sometimes, but it would confound me even more in Office 2003. (Word Perfect spoiled me. I expect formatting to be easy to understand and manipulate. Microsoft doesn't subscribe to that theory.)

That said, they should have included an option to use the old style menus. Some people like the open the garage door with a round of applause.
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:27 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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Originally Posted by HookerChemical View Post
Some people like the open the garage door with a round of applause.
I'm not quite getting the idiom here.

I think there are related spheres of complaint. One is how MS changed the interface. IMHO, much of this was driven by the marketing department. There are great threats to Word out there (e.g., OO), and Word users are still using an intuitive interface (i.e., an interface that has much in common with other programs, such as File, Edit, Tools, etc.), then switching from Word is easier. So, for primarily marketing reasons, they made massive changes that detract from, rather than improve the experience. Yes, things can be figured out, but there were few benefits to the reorganization.

In the meantime, what a pain in the ass. I tried keeping track (similar to the OP, I was excited about the upgrade, then stuck in shock and disbelief at what I found) of the differences between interfaces. For example, there was a lot more movement between selecting tabs and items in the tabs.

Second, despite a lot of improvements, there were a slew of steps backwards. Here's my favorite bit from the MS site:
Quote:
Can I customize the Ribbon?
Things you can't do
  • Add to or rearrange the commands on the Ribbon.
  • Change or remove a command or group on the Ribbon.
  • Add tabs to the Ribbon, unless you use XML and programming code.
  • Switch to the toolbars and menus from earlier versions of Microsoft Office.
  • Change the font or font size used on the Ribbon.

Things you can do
  • Minimize the Ribbon to make more space available on your screen.
  • Move the Quick Access Toolbar to position it below or above the Ribbon.
  • Customize the Quick Access Toolbar to add buttons that represent the commands that you frequently use.
  • Use XML and programming code to extend the Office Fluent user interface by adding custom tabs, buttons, check boxes, or Dialog Box Launchers.
Thanks, assholes. So basic customization, such as moving and resizing the fucking takes-up-too-much-space ribbon isn't possible out of the box. I'm glad Ribbon Customizer is there, but this is pretty basic functionality.
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  #16  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:39 PM
robby robby is offline
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Originally Posted by Pduol View Post
Does anyone else think Word 2007 Sucks? Badly!!
Yes.
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:42 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl View Post
I'm not quite getting the idiom here.
Not an idiom; it's a direct callback to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HookerChemical View Post
I still feel that Office 2003 wired the garage door to the Clapper.
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:45 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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Right ... I didn't get it from that point on. Is the clapper that old TV gadget?
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2009, 07:04 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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I've been using Office 2007 for a little over a year now at work, and I still hate the ribbons. I can find my way around them a bit better now, but I still hate them.

They're at their very worst in Access 2007 - because so many of the things you might want to do there really don't have graphical ways to represent them that are particularly distinctive, and anyway, when I want to create a new table, I just don't need a pictoral representation of a table to help me decide where to click.

The ribbon is patronising and intrusive, occupying a huge and unnecessary slice of screen real-estate (I know it can be hidden, but that's just a nuisance too either way).

I consider myself a reasonably adaptable user and intuitive learner for these sorts of things, but a year in, the ribbon still gets on my nerves.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2009, 07:28 PM
tacoloco tacoloco is offline
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Nope, sorry OP, I actually prefer Office 2007. I didn't at first, but once I got used to it, there are a lot of cool features.
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2009, 09:34 PM
Southern Yankee Southern Yankee is offline
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Originally Posted by Pduol View Post
You are a life saver! Thank you for this. Looks like this will also help when I tackle the "new and improved" version of Excel tomorrow.
You're welcome. We included Search Commands in our default installation package when we rolled 2007 out to our users. It's been a life saver to a lot of folks.
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Frylock Frylock is online now
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I dig Word 2007's bibliography features. If Word 2003 had them, I didn't know about them.
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2009, 09:41 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Nope, sorry OP, I actually prefer Office 2007. I didn't at first, but once I got used to it, there are a lot of cool features.
There's one in every crowd.

No, seriously, there's always at least one. I'm pretty sure they're put there.
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  #24  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:05 PM
Harriet the Spry Harriet the Spry is offline
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Count me as another who likes it. I think its main benefits are to those who are learning Word for the first time. Remember, that's a new batch of humans every year. It takes a lot of very useful features that we experienced users knew about, and knew exactly where they were buried, but and puts them right out in the open. That should cut down on things like "I didn't know you could sort!" Also, the ribbon is very helpful for shared machines, like in a lab, that don't have individual user accounts. It was really nice to have your toolbars customized the way you like them in the older versions, but using a shared computer meant no toolbar, or someone else's completely illogical toolbar. Here, at least you have a standard.

I will admit to a little stress over messing with keyboard shortcuts. My fingers know a lot of the Alt + Menu letters shortcuts, and a few of those seem to be going away. Like I used to know Print Preview as Alt-F, V and Page Setup as Alt-F, S, and I think those are two that have gone away.

Putting the features on the ribbon is, I hope we can agree, 1000% better than the dancing paper clip, or Bob.
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  #25  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:46 PM
Lightray Lightray is offline
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Originally Posted by Harriet the Spry View Post
I will admit to a little stress over messing with keyboard shortcuts. My fingers know a lot of the Alt + Menu letters shortcuts, and a few of those seem to be going away. Like I used to know Print Preview as Alt-F, V and Page Setup as Alt-F, S, and I think those are two that have gone away.
This, this is the reason Microsoft's developers deserve a month of fire ants in their beds. They have, unbelievably, sabotaged the productivity of their customers. I used to be lightning-fast on Excel, Word, etc., but now grind to a halt every minute, cursing as hotkeys that've been supported for decades not only don't work, but bring up completely different random commands.

Unfortunately, MS has reached that not-quite-monopoly stage of "too big to fail", no matter how they deserve it for their crappy business practices.
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  #26  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:50 PM
amarinth amarinth is offline
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Originally Posted by stuthehistoryguy View Post
There ARE some real advantages, actually, but there probably was no need for the radical changes inflicted on society in this iteration.
Apparently, if you've never used Word before, Word2007 is supposedly much more intuitive.

So for all - three... maybe even four of those people across the world this change was for them. (Small children don't count, they don't use word processors)
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  #27  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:56 PM
Harriet the Spry Harriet the Spry is offline
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(Small children don't count, they don't use word processors)
Every year, a new batch of them do.
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  #28  
Old 12-23-2009, 11:21 PM
Grumman Grumman is offline
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I don't find it that bad. I've only been using it for less than a year compared to 10-12 with the old style, but I didn't actually have much difficulty learning the new changes. It probably helps that I knew ahead of time that the logo in the top-left corner was really a button.
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2009, 12:17 AM
Larry Mudd Larry Mudd is offline
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I don't use Word very hard, so I am only annoyed by Word 2007 the rare time I have to do a mail merge or work with forms or locked documents.

Excel 2007, on the other hand - it kills me to reorient myself when I'm forced to use it. Where the fuck are my macros? Oh, right, three levels down under "Developer." And so on, and so on...

That being said, when Office 2010 comes out next summer, we're going to move everyone over to that, uniformly. I've been trying to get used to working with 2007, in anticipation. But it burns... it burns....
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  #30  
Old 12-24-2009, 12:44 AM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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Excel, with which many of us have muscle memory that knows the old [Alt] commands, still pretended to know them in 2007. I have no faith that 2010 does.

OTOH, one can slap into submission the latest version of AutoCAD. Too many of us rebelled against the "ribbon" as a solution to a problem that never existed, as we all had our toolbars and our muscles knew where to find each command. Had they not carried forward that feature there would've been wholesale rebellion with many more lost sales, though I still save in 2004 format for better compatibility. I've noticed that it still supports the old DOS menus, though I haven't used them in almost 20 years.
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  #31  
Old 12-24-2009, 01:43 AM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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Originally Posted by Southern Yankee View Post
You're welcome. We included Search Commands in our default installation package when we rolled 2007 out to our users. It's been a life saver to a lot of folks.
"We"? You work for MicroSoft? Aren't you supposed to wear a bell, or something?
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  #32  
Old 12-24-2009, 03:53 AM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is offline
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People are bitches. Office 2007 is FAR superior in nearly every way to previous versions of Word. Just because it's different and you can't figure it out in 2 seconds doesn't make it inferior to older versions.

The fact of the matter is that O7 puts thing where you EXPECT to find them instead of burying them 6 clicks down in some fucking task bar drop down box. It's true that MS has trained you over the years to look for shit in oddball places in the File bar, but now they are putting shit where you SHOULD find it. Nothing wrong with that.

Powerpoint is WAY better than any previous version. No contest. I also really like the format previewing in all of the programs in the suite.

The only thing they really jacked up on was the "Developer Toolbar" that is automatically hidden in each program and you don't even know it exists unless you go looking for it. There are some commands on those bars that are fairly common use that shouldn't be hidden.
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  #33  
Old 12-24-2009, 04:31 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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I have to disagree with Cubsfan. Their biggest mistake was trying to force everyone to change all at once, instead of gradually. (Well, that and not being consistent. I'll get to that later.) Users of Windows have pretty much been trained to work with a particular interface, and even their way of thinking expects that interface. It's not just Office--nearly everything in Windows works with the menu bar, and certain options are always in the same place. Changing this around messes with people.

The problem with the new interface is that it doesn't take into account other programs. The ribbon is not even consistent among the different programs in Office (and some even still have the menus), let alone the other programs you use. This makes the interface take longer to learn. So they traded intuitiveness for practicality, and a lot of people don't like that.

Microsoft would have been far better to gradually change things, where the new interface would gradually feel more intuitive, instead of changing everything at once. They focused on making the new and casual users more comfortable, and left out the power user base.
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  #34  
Old 12-24-2009, 04:43 AM
DWMarch DWMarch is offline
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The reason why MS changed the interface is because they kept getting requests for features that were already there.

Can you imagine being a developer and getting 6000 emails saying "This software really needs <obscure command>!!!"

Meanwhile, you're going "FFS! <obscure command> is already in there! It's under alt-tools-options-preferences-turnleft-turnright-sacrificeagoat!"

So they said fuck it and put it all up front where you can find it easily enough if you click around. Why is that so hard to adjust to?
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  #35  
Old 12-24-2009, 06:21 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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I disagree BigT. I think the only way to do this change was to do it all at once. If they'd tried to sneak in changes gradually, everyone would have stuck to their old ways until finally MS cut the ties and then there'd be the same amount of whinging as there was for the ribbon. It's like switching from a QWERTY keyboard to Dvorak. You just have to hold your nose and jump in.

Personally I think the ribbon is genius (and I've been using word processors since Word Perfect was blue.) People who complain because they can't find anything now are making a comment about themselves - not the program, imo.
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  #36  
Old 12-24-2009, 06:46 AM
Southern Yankee Southern Yankee is offline
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
"We"? You work for MicroSoft? Aren't you supposed to wear a bell, or something?
Ha. No, I just work in IT. I should have said "when my company deployed Office 2007, our customized installation package included Search Commands."
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  #37  
Old 12-24-2009, 08:57 AM
Scuba_Ben Scuba_Ben is offline
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I much prefer OpenOffice for my own use. Why shell out however-many-hundreds every new OS, when I can get the functionality I really care about for free?

I installed Ribbon Customizer, but it hasn't linked in to MS Office '07 yet. Other than being on the job today, what did I do wrong?
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  #38  
Old 12-24-2009, 09:07 AM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is offline
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Originally Posted by DWMarch View Post
So they said fuck it and put it all up front where you can find it easily enough if you click around. Why is that so hard to adjust to?

It's not. People are just a bunch of whiny bitches.
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  #39  
Old 12-24-2009, 09:14 AM
amarone amarone is offline
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Ben View Post
I much prefer OpenOffice for my own use. Why shell out however-many-hundreds every new OS, when I can get the functionality I really care about for free?
I have never had to buy Office again just because I change OS (but sticking to Microsoft operating systems). I tried Open Office but found it was missing functions that I was used to using and the spreadsheets were as slow as molasses.

So each to their own.
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  #40  
Old 12-24-2009, 09:16 AM
BrotherCadfael BrotherCadfael is online now
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Originally Posted by Cubsfan
The fact of the matter is that O7 puts thing where you EXPECT to find them instead of burying them 6 clicks down in some fucking task bar drop down box. It's true that MS has trained you over the years to look for shit in oddball places in the File bar, but now they are putting shit where you SHOULD find it. Nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue View Post
To split one table into two tables, you must do the following:

Select the row that you want to be the first row of the second table.
Under Table Tools, on the Layout tab, in the Merge group, click Split Table.
Putting Split Tables under Merge is an example of "Put[ting] thing[s] where you EXPECT to find them"?

Well, this IS the company that makes you go to START to shut down. If you are used to that, perhaps putting Split under Merge makes sense.

But I wouldn't boast about that...

Last edited by BrotherCadfael; 12-24-2009 at 09:20 AM..
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  #41  
Old 12-24-2009, 10:43 AM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Ben View Post
I much prefer OpenOffice for my own use. Why shell out however-many-hundreds every new OS, when I can get the functionality I really care about for free?
No reason, if you do all your own work, or share only with other OO users. I've gotten some Open Office documents from a co-worker in which the formatting is slightly screwed up when I open them in Word, requiring some low-level repair to display properly.

(Yes, I understand that's what I get for supporting Microsoft's unfair business practices and that my life and the world around me would be much improved if everyone used Open Office and Linux.)
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael View Post
Putting Split Tables under Merge is an example of "Put[ting] thing[s] where you EXPECT to find them"?

Well, this IS the company that makes you go to START to shut down. If you are used to that, perhaps putting Split under Merge makes sense.

But I wouldn't boast about that...
The command for splitting tables is not really -under- anything. It's right there on the Table Layout ribbon, in plain sight. It happens to be grouped with other Split & Merge functions including Split Cells & Merge Cells.

This group, although it contains both Splitting & Merging commands, has the group name, Merge, in a little title bar beneath the actual commands. It would have been more accurate to call it Splitting & Merging but that would have been too long a title and screwed up the spacing.

The reason the group title bars are below the commands, rather than above them, is to break the concept that this is a menu of some sort rather than a grouping of related commands. The group names aren't important. A user who has read down to the group names has already read & passed over the command he's looking for.

The point of Start button was not, "Here's where I turn on my computer" but "Here's where I start if I want to issue a command (like, open a program or run defrag. Or, yes, shut down windows.)". But some people found this confusing so MS changed it with Vista, several years ago.

Last edited by Merneith; 12-24-2009 at 11:33 AM..
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  #43  
Old 12-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Superfluous Parentheses Superfluous Parentheses is offline
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
My understanding is the ribbon is suppose to be a huge help to touchscreen users.
Hahaha. While it's probably true that the ribbon works better for touch screens than the traditional menus, nobody in their right mind uses a touchscreen for a word processor. The ones that try probably develop severe muscle issues in the first day.

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Originally Posted by Southern Yankee View Post
Do a Google search for "Search Commands." It's a free add-in for Office 2007 from Microsoft labs that puts a new ribbon section in with a context-sensitive search bar. You simply type in what you want (i.e., split table) and it brings all the relevant menu options right to the ribbon. The downside is that it doesn't show you how to find them yourselves, but when you're in a crunch and can't find something it works great.
That sounds so much like Emacs it's not even funny.

Last edited by Superfluous Parentheses; 12-24-2009 at 11:51 AM..
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  #44  
Old 12-24-2009, 12:09 PM
Scuba_Ben Scuba_Ben is offline
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Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
The command for splitting tables is not really -under- anything. It's right there on the Table Layout ribbon, in plain sight. It happens to be grouped with other Split & Merge functions including Split Cells & Merge Cells.

This group, although it contains both Splitting & Merging commands, has the group name, Merge, in a little title bar beneath the actual commands. It would have been more accurate to call it Splitting & Merging but that would have been too long a title and screwed up the spacing.
Maybe they should have abbreviated it. I might, after having learned where this command is today and if I use it often enough, learn to look for "split" under "merge". But some text indicator would have helped. It's much like going to "Start" to stop.

@Superfluous Parentheses: Emacs would have a command shortcut to search commands like "Control-alt-F7, escape-bellybutton, control-escape-search."
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  #45  
Old 12-24-2009, 12:24 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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<shrug> If they'd abbreviated it, there'd just be people moaning "How was I supposed to know 'Spt Mrg' meant 'Splitting & Merging? I thought it was the Spit Manager!!!!"

And again, if you're reading down to the group title, "Merge", you've already read & skipped over the command "Split Table". That's the text indicator, right there in the middle of your screen, the words: "Split Table."
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:13 PM
Superfluous Parentheses Superfluous Parentheses is offline
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@Superfluous Parentheses: Emacs would have a command shortcut to search commands like "Control-alt-F7, escape-bellybutton, control-escape-search."
C-h a, actually
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  #47  
Old 12-24-2009, 01:20 PM
Larry Mudd Larry Mudd is offline
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Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
I disagree BigT. I think the only way to do this change was to do it all at once. If they'd tried to sneak in changes gradually, everyone would have stuck to their old ways until finally MS cut the ties and then there'd be the same amount of whinging as there was for the ribbon. It's like switching from a QWERTY keyboard to Dvorak. You just have to hold your nose and jump in.
This is difficult to support, from a productivity viewpoint. Everyone in our office uses Word, but we have nine administrative assistants who need to be able to use the more esoteric features, and they have been trained on 2003 and earlier. Trying to move them over to Office 2007 has posed difficulties beyond what folks experienced moving to 2003. So far, everyone that we've tried to make the goat has ended up moving back to 2003, because their workload made it impractical for them to spend time trying to work out where everything is under the new interface.

So what do we do? We've already budgeted $25,000 for licensing. We can cough up another $7,000 for advance training for key users who need to use the software hard, whom we can't afford to have sitting there scratching their heads trying to figure out how to unlock a protected document for editing. ...and hope that they'll agree to take courses on their own time.

No, what we're going to do is get our greenest AA trained on Office 2007 and comfortable doing all the things she needs to do, and have her prepare a cheat sheet for common (for us) tasks that the other eight can refer to. Maybe phase it in gradually with the others so that she doesn't get overwhelmed with "Okay, how do I do this, now?!"

Of course you can reorient yourself in anything - but typical users don't have a surplus of time.

Incremental changes are much better if you want to get any work done. Adobe has done this well with Photoshop -- every time I've upgraded I've been able to continue working without significant interruption for reorientation -- even when there are major improvements. Might take a while to get the hang of the new features, it's not so much like sitting down to learn new a totally new application of the same generic type. The only time I recall such a radical difference between iterations of software was moving from 3D Studio to 3D Studio Max, barely the same product. (Of course, the benefits of 3D Studio Max over 3D Studio were conisderably more tangible, and the differences between the interfaces didn't seem so arbitrary.)

Sure, even without any training, it's just going to take a couple weeks of poking around to adjust to a radically different user interface - and since the software is more up-to-date, it's a safe bet that it'll generally be a better experience, once you get there.

People who are frustrated with this aren't necessarily "whiny little bitches," though - they may just be in the larger category of people who need to get their work done now. Currently, my Office 2007 install is running in a virtualized XP Pro environment under VMWare. When I am not too busy I am trying to get used to it. Office 2003 is still the workhorse, though - at month end I go straight to Excel 2003.
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  #48  
Old 12-24-2009, 03:13 PM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by Lightray View Post
This, this is the reason Microsoft's developers deserve a month of fire ants in their beds. They have, unbelievably, sabotaged the productivity of their customers. I used to be lightning-fast on Excel, Word, etc., but now grind to a halt every minute, cursing as hotkeys that've been supported for decades not only don't work, but bring up completely different random commands.
Oh, I already feel like that about their localization. The fuckers use the same shortcuts for different things in different languages. I've had jobs where I was using two computers, one with Office in English and one with Office in Spanish. Same edition, they even belonged to the same company. But you know ctrl+b, aye? For bold? Well, in Spanish it reformats the page. So does ctrl+a, although of course in a different way.

If I ever catch hold of the fucker who came up with the idea of localizing the shortcuts, I'll claim the judge and jury can't be appropriately be considered my peers unless they've had to use Office in a minimum of two languages. No judge or jury who have ever gone through that would consider me guilty.


And I don't see what's the relationship between "improving the way we save files, which was about bloody time because the old way blew goats" and "redoing the interface completely in a way that gives people less control over it."

Last edited by Nava; 12-24-2009 at 03:16 PM..
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  #49  
Old 12-24-2009, 03:33 PM
BrotherCadfael BrotherCadfael is online now
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Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
The point of Start button was not, "Here's where I turn on my computer" but "Here's where I start if I want to issue a command (like, open a program or run defrag. Or, yes, shut down windows.)".
Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid...
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  #50  
Old 12-24-2009, 05:06 PM
LouisB LouisB is offline
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I fairly recently semi-hijacked a thread by inserting a bunch of question about upgrading an OLD computer I am currently compelled to use. One of my comments concerned Office2000, which I'm using and someone, I've forgotten who made the comment that he/she recently installed Office2007 and intended to scrap it and return to Office2000 ASAP. FWIW and YMMV.
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