Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions?

Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions? (PDF) (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)

Deconstructing Global Warming (Video) (55min) (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)
Selected Peer Reviewed Publications:

Can increasing carbon dioxide cause climate change? (PDF)
*(Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Volume 94, pp. 8335-8342, August 1997)

  • Richard S. Lindzen*

Global Warming: The Origin and Nature of the Alleged Scientific Consensus (PDF)
*(Regulation, Volume 15, Number 2, pp. 87-98, 1992)

  • Richard S. Lindzen*

On the determination of climate feedbacks from ERBE data (PDF)
*(Geophysical Research Letters, Volume 36, Issue 16, August 2009)

  • Richard S. Lindzen, Yong-Sang Choi*

Taking GreenHouse Warming Seriously (PDF)
*(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Numbers 7-8, pp. 937-950, December 2007)

  • Richard S. Lindzen*

OK, you’ve offered your cites. So what are you debating?

Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions? I don’t believe it is.

Are you talking “Climate Science” in general, or just the bits of it that pertain to your (and Lindzen’s) personal bugbear? Because GW is not the be-all and end-all of *Climatology *(hey, what do you know, the Science even has its own proper name).

And yes, it is designed to answer questions - that’s why it follows a scientific method, rather than, oh, I don’t know, just existing to nitpick data others gathered and posting in non-reliably-accredited political journals.

Anyway, Lindzen’s a fine one to talk - I mean, he does the same climatology as everyone else, participates in the same panels, got the same degree, publishes in the same journals (other than that E&E rag) - so what kind of scientist does that make him? I thought his big attraction for the denial crowd was that he was a real climate scientist. So isn’t he damning himself, there?

:rolleyes: Richard Lindzen? Seriously?

Yes Seriously, please stop citing the propaganda site sourcewatch,

Sourcewatch

$$$ Funded by The Center for Media and Democracy

MIT’s inconvenient scientist (The Boston Globe)

:rolleyes: Dude, Discover the Networks is David Horowitz’ baby. Dude’s a crank even by RW standards, and Discover the Networks – based on the assumption that the combination of money and power on the left in America is anywhere near comparable to that on the right – is a prime example.

Here’s a description of SourceWatch from the (I hope you will agree) generally neutral Wikipedia:

ROFLMAO!! Wikipedia is neutral? Really? If you think it is so neutral please answer these questions,

  1. At the time that you are looking at a page how do you determine it’s level of accuracy?

  2. How do you determine if a page is “good editor” corrected or “bad editor” inaccurate?

  3. Who decides who a “good editor” is? How are their qualifications determined?

  4. What is the time frame for a “good editor” to correct a page and how is this time frame determined?

  5. If more then one “good editor” wants to make completely different changes to a page who wins? Could it be the last one who edited it? But which is the truth?

  6. If more then one person is “watching” a topic for changes and they both want to make completely different changes to a page who wins? Could it be the last one who edited it? But which is the truth?

  7. Are there more expert or non-expert people with Internet connections on a certain subject that can edit that subject’s Wikipedia page?

  8. With no value assigned to level of expertise for editors per Wikipedia page how is the accuracy of the edits determined?

  9. How is a “neutral point of view” determined on Wikipedia pages and who makes this decision? Could it be the person who edited it last? How is this a “neutral point of view”?

  10. If Wikipedia is so accurate then why would anyone ever need to make corrections to it?

Accuracy and neutrality are not the same thing.

You’ll find all those questions answered in Wikipedia’s article on itself. In sum, its accuracy is based on people making corrections to it; and any difference of opinions immediately comes to the attention of the editors, in fact there is a built-in method for disputing the neutrality of an article, and a “talk page” attached to each one. It is an iterative process – never perfectly accurate but always tending towards accuracy – in that, a microcosm of the human intellectual enterprise as a whole. Anyone may fairly criticize its take on a particular topic, and, more plausibly, the slipshod editing; but in my experience, posters who have a serious problem with the Wikipedia as such are those who also seem to have a serious problem with “consensus reality” as such, and they are nearly always RWs. Well, heads up: The facts have a liberal bias. Wikipedia does not.

Wikipedia is among the most neutral sources. That is, it is neutral relative to the alternatives.

By checking that page’s references, which are more reliably provided on Wikipedia than in most other sources.

Check the page’s references, which are more reliably provided on Wikipedia than in most other sources.

The odds are good that the most recent edit is the truth. In particular, these odds are better for Wikipedia than they are for most other information sources.

The relevant question is, Are there more expert or non-expert people with Internet connections on a certain subject who will make an edit that will last long enough for you to see it? If “expert” means “knows the relevant facts”, then the answer is that there are more expert than non-expert such people.

By checking that page’s references, which are more reliably provided on Wikipedia than in most other sources.

Statistically speaking, the “neutral point of view” is the view most likely to have lasted long enough for you to see it.

Being more accurate than the alternatives is perfectly consistent with getting more accurate over time.

Poptech, would you care to apply some thought and analysis to your OP? As an AGW sceptic in the proper sense, I find your posts decidedly unuseful. If you can do a search, try looking for posts by Intention.

And BTW it doesn’t matter if Lindzen and Sourcewatch and whoever are funded by one side or the other as long as it’s out in the open. And just because they’re funded by one side or the other doesn’t mean that they’re automatically right or automatically wrong. It’s when someone’s funding is concealed that we should worry.

As in Lindzen’s case.

No you will not, you will not find a single answer to any of those questions.

You are under the false assumption that a change to a page is a “correction”.

No it doesn’t.

Which is only useful if everyone that can edit a page uses it and can come to an agreement, which does not happen. If anything the talk page is a joke.

There is nothing to support this statement.

Only liberals actively participate in collective group think thus by design Wikipedia will be liberal biased.

No it’s not, it is truth based on who edits last.

That does not answer any of the questions.

ROFLMAO! How naive are you people? Am I the only one who understands how wikipedia works?

Really? There are not more people who think they know?

No the view you are looking at is based on the last edit of a single person.

You effectively failed to answer any of the questions.

Not even you believe that.

Really? His whopping $10,000 to speak at a conference in 1991? So an effective $526 a year has funded his skepticism? ROFLMAO!!! Are you serious?

Speaking of funding,

Climate Money: The Climate Industry: $79 billion so far – trillions to come (PDF) (Joanne Nova, B.S. Microbiology, Graduate Diploma in Science Communications)

**The US government has spent over $79 billion since 1989 on policies related to climate change

Despite the billions: “audits” of the science are left to unpaid volunteers.

Carbon trading worldwide reached $126 billion in 2008.

Meanwhile in a distracting sideshow, Exxon-Mobil Corp is repeatedly attacked for paying a grand total of $23 million to skeptics**

Ha-Ha - in the other thread, **poptech **is praising Google Scholar because it is open, and accusing me of elitism because I prefer the decidedly refereed SCI. Here, he’s down on SourceWatch and Wikipedia … because they’re open to anyone.

The dissonance, it is, how you say in English, cognitive, no?

Errm, that’s somehow missing the** $27.5 million** they spent in lobbying (mostly against GW legislation) last year alone.

Never mind the $200 million spent on ads by the energy corps.

Exactly the point… he hasn’t been doing research on that since 1991… so where IS his research money coming from? We don’t know = lack of openness.