what many creationists think of science and the public education system

The story of my metamorphosis from a Bible-believing youngster growing up in a fundamentalist-creationist home to a science-loving skeptical rationalist is long and tortuous (and torturous), and I won’t repeat it here. But I do remember a very interesting aspect of that worldview that I’d like to describe here, for the morbid amusement of those who are interested in the science-fundamentalism culture war.

My parents, graduates of William Jennings BryanCollege in Dayton TN (my mother was also a former missionary kid)–that should tell you something right there–were also public school teachers, so I was exposed to a very unique set of perspectives on the question of science vs creationism and how it affects public education.

Many people wonder how it is that creationists can still think that evolution is foolishness, and that it doesn’t belong in the public schools, when court case after court case has come down in favor of secular science education, and every public school system in the country adheres to largely mainstream science education standards.

Well, I have an answer for you.

The way a large number of creationists interpret all this, the way they make sense of the overwhelming legal and educational tide against them, is NOT to reason that, “Gee, maybe all these biology and education experts and government officials are right; maybe evolution IS good science, after all!”

Oh no no no. For that would mean the crumbling of their ideological edifice.

The way the majority of them interpret their astounding, perpetual, and overwhelming losses in the scholarly and legal forum is as follows:

“The world belongs to the devil.”

I kid you not. From my own parents (teachers) to public school principals and administrators, preachers, apologists, activists, and right-wing politicians, although they won’t say it publicly (at least not usually), this is seriously how many of them analyze their losses in the public forum. I have heard it literally dozens if not hundreds of time throughout my life.

Since some Bible passages describe the world as being utterly evil and under Satan’s direct control (e.g., Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 6:12, 1 John 5:19), creationists and fundamentalists believe that Satan himself is behind the pro-evolution science taught in American high schools, and literally pulled some sort of diabolical strings to get verdicts like we saw in Edwards vs. Aguilard and Kitzmiller et al vs. Dover ASB.

If that ain’t creepy–and very revealing of the kind of mindset we’re dealing with here–I don’t know what is. It shows how, no matter what kind of legal, scientific, or logical evidence argues against their position, they will NEVER change their mind, because it’s all a diabolical conspiracy. Literally.

That saddens me. It doesn’t surprise me, though, which saddens me even more.

I thought everyone already knew this, or I’d have told you.

Oddly enough, our science book was set up where evolution was its own separate section, and every year they always wound up “not having time” to discuss it in biology. Oddly enough, we DID discuss abiogenesis.

I grew up in rural Indiana. Doesn’t surprise me at all. Surrounded by this world view.

Ditto, but because I was raised by far-far-right-wingers. It’s exactly the same “Yay, we’re being persecuted. This proves that everyone else (who are against us) is evil!”

Keep an open mind. We all don’t get it but to me it is all connected. God, Science, Creation, Evolution. As humans we are afraid of what we don’t understand. Instead of being afraid of what we don’t understand we should question and study it and if you still can’t figure it out that does not mean it does not exist or that it is evil. That is just fear. I’m glad I got all the angles growing up.

There are many things I don’t get. I don’t have the answer but someone does. Maybe not right at this moment but someday.

There are things I do get that others don’t. I have been made fun of by people that don’t understand me. I don’t take it personally or think they are evil. I just wish I could explain it in words or in a painting or music. I’m not gifted in that way.

Check out this young child prodigy with an open mind. She has a keen mind to all things and a wonderful gift for expressing it. Amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtI4PQZCe1A&feature=related

It’s no good arguing against magic.

You “Christians” or as I grew up calling you “Protestants,” are a bunch of Johnny-come-Latelys to Evilworld. My One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church holds with the doctrine of Original Sin. Basically, babies commit a sin worthy of eternal damnation just by being born. Then they only compound things by shitting their diapers and rubbing their gentials and stealing cookies, etc.

These babies were often born to people who were forced by birth-control prohibitions to have children they didn’t want and were unprepared to love, making them excellent salesmen and women for this doctrine.

Don’t like that? well, all you have to do is undergo our quaint induction ritual, and then each week bring an evenlope filled with money to our clubhouse. (No, not the Bada Bing, I mean St. Theresa’s.)

Sometimes, when a deer is giving birth, a pack of wolves will gather round to wait. They’ll eat the fawn and let her go to lay on another feast next year. That’s not evil, it’s just nature. But any world that allows for a 2,000 year old institution doing psychological cruelty to children for its own benefit has to be an evil world, so I’m with the Pope & the Fundies on ths one.

Verses like Colossians 2:8 don’t help matters:
“See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.”

Cuckoorex:

Uh-yup. I grew up hearing Col. 2:8 injected into the discussion, a lot, too.

Reason I posted it is, I’ve had a LOT of people who didn’t grow up in the creationist womb the way I did, express shock/disbelief/disgust/etc. when I tell 'em this. A lot of secularly raised folks are genuinely unaware of how deep the sickness really is.

ST: Protestants–'scuse me, “Evangelicals”–also hold to a doctrine of Original Sin. It’s part and parcel of the this-is-the-devil’s-world Weltanschauung. As I recall there’s a verse somewhars that goes, “In sin my mother conceived me…”. Verses like that are the reason both Catholics and “Evangelicals” hold to this view.

It makes it a shit-load easier to peddle someone your salvation cure-all, if you convince them that everybody on earth is in direst need of the stuff, just by dint of having been born.

It isn’t magic. This girl is a human being born into an athiest home that has a God given gift. She is self taught and without reading the bible or attending church. I had her picture of Jesus on my screen saver and one day did some research and found out why I liked it so much. I learned a little bit about Akiana and then I just understood her.

God picked her just as he picked me. I don’t have her wonderful talents but I do have God in me just the same. I got it at a very young age like she did. If you look at her work she has both God and the Universe as her subjects for her paintings. As a child I was filled with awe and wonder, I still am!

It takes becoming like a child to get it. It is so simple but we complicate it. God and science, creation and evolution are all good things for children to learn.

Akiana is going to try and save the world one painting at a time and she inspires me. She doesn’t get into arguments, she gets up every day and paints for God. The world would be such a wonderful place if we could all do one small thing for the greater good of humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQlZv29E4_0&feature=related

IMO evil requires consciousness, so to an atheist the world as a whole is neither good nor evil.

What specifically about her paintings lends her gift to Christianity. The only reason she’s Christian is because she grew up in the western world. If she was born in Afghanistan, she’d be Muslim and painting pictures of Muhammad.

Nothing. As she says she doesn’t go to any church or belong to any religious group. If we were all a bit like her the world would be a better place. Doing something for the greater good of all. She may paint a picture of Mohammad one day as she seems to paint many different subjects from all over the world and the universe.

You did.

All you have to hear to know that this is a con job is “this painting is worth thousands of dollars.” Do you really think the creator and supreme ruler of the universe would pick this girl out, reveal to her an image of Jesus that just so happens to look exactly like the popular western depiction of him, and then have her paint it for thousands in profit? No. It’s a shame, really, because the girl is obviously incredibly talented (if she’s really the one doing the paintings), but this is a family of grifters.

Nit pick - no she wouldn’t as that would violate Islam’s pretty strong anti-idolatry principles. Sheesh, don’t you people watch South Park? :wink:

That depends on who you’re asking. There’s a long tradition of Islamic art depicting Muhammad. Here’s a Persian example on Wikipedia.