Oh jesus. Fire in the outlet.

[Zsofia]

Eeek! This morning (after I noticed the boyfriend left the space heater in the bathroom on FOR HOURS while he'd left FOR HOURS with me sleeping in the next room FOR HOURS is he ever in trouble!) I unplugged it and found burn marks on the wider prong of the plug. Examination showed scorching around the plug holes in the outlet as well.

Plugs in that outlet have always been really loose, by the way, and I saw a spark once several months ago. Been meaning to do something about it, but you know how that goes.

It's a GFCI outlet, the only outlet in the bathroom.

So. Obviously that's bad. Is it bad as in "it's just the outlet, replace it and you're fine", or is it bad as in "there's something wrong with the wiring and you should call an electrician"? I've been looking at how to replace it and it seems to be something I could do with a reasonable degree of confidence.

[johnpost]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

So. Obviously that's bad. Is it bad as in "it's just the outlet, replace it and you're fine", or is it bad as in "there's something wrong with the wiring and you should call an electrician"? I've been looking at how to replace it and it seems to be something I could do with a reasonable degree of confidence.

replace the receptacle and you should be OK

plug something into it like a radio turned on and go flip the circuit breaker off or unscrew the fuse. if it stops playing then you can have confidence that the circuit is turned off.

[cornflakes]

IANAElectrician (and I have always wondered why the mods will allow us to give electrical/plumbing/remodeling advice to strangers when that advice may leave someone dead, and in the meantime threads about minor health issues have been shut down due to the "don't give out medical advice" rule), but...

It sounds like the contacts are loose in the outlet--there isn't any smoke with the heater unplugged. I'd replace the outlet with a commercial grade GFCI (commercial grade outlets tend to have stronger contacts.) While replacing it, I'd check if the insulation on the wires was burned, and I might call an electrician if it was.

[Leaffan]

Make sure both plugs are not operable before removal; it is possible to wire each half separately, and if you don't know what you're looking for one might be alive whilst the other isn't.

[HongKongFooey]

I'm an electrician and I agree with what johnpost said. You can check the wires in the box for scorching but will probably be able to strip back any damage pretty easily.

[johnpost]

i would second the suggestion of using higher priced receptacles if not commercial grade. though many home improvement stores may only sell one grade of GFCI, you may have to go to an electrical supply store or store where builders buy supplies to find a higher grade.

GFCI units in the box have good instructions and a careful person can do an OK job if they read and understand the instructions. if you have any doubts, uncertainty or fears then get help from a person with experience rather than take a chance at a bad job (which certainly could be a hazard).

for regular receptacles the difference of what is available in a home improvement store is tremendous. the $0.39 receptacles are junk and hazardous and you will replace them every year or risk a fire. you may not want to use a couple dollar commercial receptacle everywhere (though this is a good choice for places you might put plugs in and out of frequently) though you should go for those priced between those points.

[Xema]

Originally Posted by cornflakes

I have always wondered why the mods will allow us to give electrical/plumbing/remodeling advice to strangers when that advice may leave someone dead, and in the meantime threads about minor health issues have been shut down due to the "don't give out medical advice" rule

[OT]
I wonder this as well. The number of subjects on which the following of random online advice might lead to unpleasant and even dire consequences is essentially unlimited. This seems best handled by a policy of "NB: The value of advice on this message board may be no greater that what you paid for it" - which on the SDMB appears to apply to most but not quite all subjects.

[Zsofia]

We're always plugging and unplugging with this one - it's the only bathroom receptacle, and between electric toothbrush, heater, hair dryer, and everything else I guess it's no surprise it needs replacing. I'll get the most expensive one they have.

[Zsofia]

It is funny, by the way - you can say "Yes, sell all your stuff and move to New Zealand to marry that guy you met on the Internet!" and "Oh, hell, yeah, go ahead and rewire that yourself - what's the worst that can happen? Turning off the breaker's for pussies." and "Step one: get a bigger ladder..." but you can't say "Put some aloe on that sunburn and wear sunscreen in the future, dumbass."

[Cheshire Human]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

We're always plugging and unplugging with this one - it's the only bathroom receptacle, and between electric toothbrush, heater, hair dryer, and everything else I guess it's no surprise it needs replacing. I'll get the most expensive one they have.

Actually, don't go for the most expensive. Go to a local hardware store, rather than the "big box" home improvement places, and tell them you want the "best quality". Local stores are generally much more knoledgeable about their product lines than "big box" ones. A big box came to our town, but the 2 local ones that survived are still thriving for that very reason. Go in to the "big box" with a problem, and most of their employees can't tell you how to solve it. Go to the local ones and they will bend over backward trying to figure out how you can, and what of their stock you need. If I need a bolt, and know what size I need, the "big box" is closer and more convenient. If I need to solve a problem and don't know how or what I need to do it, I go to the locals and always wind up going home with the best possible solution.

ETA: Also, going that way avoids the problem of relying on us random SDMB yutzes. You WILL be getting advice from pros. They will tell you if the job is beyond you. The "big box" boys won't, because they don't know. It's probably beyond them too.

[Zsofia]

Dude, the local hardware stores have vanished. If there are any left, I don't know where they are. They're gone. Hiller went this past year.

[gotpasswords]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

We're always plugging and unplugging with this one - it's the only bathroom receptacle, and between electric toothbrush, heater, hair dryer, and everything else I guess it's no surprise it needs replacing. I'll get the most expensive one they have.

No time like the present to replace the single receptacle with two. If you're insanely lucky, the box inside the wall will be a square box, and just by changing what's called the mud ring for one that holds two devices instead of one, you can do this very easily.

More likely, the entire box will need to be changed. Electrically, this job is very easy for someone who's changed receptacles and switches, but depending on what kind of box is in the wall and how it's attached to the wall, and if that bathroom wall is tiled or not, the job can be tricky from a not wrecking the wall standpoint.

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by cornflakes

IANAElectrician (and I have always wondered why the mods will allow us to give electrical/plumbing/remodeling advice to strangers when that advice may leave someone dead, and in the meantime threads about minor health issues have been shut down due to the "don't give out medical advice" rule...

Originally Posted by Xema

[OT]
I wonder this as well. The number of subjects on which the following of random online advice might lead to unpleasant and even dire consequences is essentially unlimited. This seems best handled by a policy of "NB: The value of advice on this message board may be no greater that what you paid for it" - which on the SDMB appears to apply to most but not quite all subjects.

The medical and legal professions are such that the giving of advice, in and of itself, is regulated. A licensed practioner giving unsound advice may incur legal liability, and a layman giving advice at all in these fields may be in violation of law. It's quite a different situation from other fields.

[Zsofia]

Originally Posted by gotpasswords

No time like the present to replace the single receptacle with two. If you're insanely lucky, the box inside the wall will be a square box, and just by changing what's called the mud ring for one that holds two devices instead of one, you can do this very easily.

More likely, the entire box will need to be changed. Electrically, this job is very easy for someone who's changed receptacles and switches, but depending on what kind of box is in the wall and how it's attached to the wall, and if that bathroom wall is tiled or not, the job can be tricky from a not wrecking the wall standpoint.

It's plaster, which I reeeeally don't want to fuck with.

[Philster]

If you unplug and plug in items that put a decent load on the outlet/circuit, and your method of turning these items on/off is by plugging and unplugging them then you can shorten the life of the outlet and scorch it.

If at all possible, plug and unplug items when they are 'off'. I know that sometimes it is not possible, but do so when it is.

[Zsofia]

Oh, we never do that if something has an on switch - I mean, there's not one on, say, an electric toothbrush, but otherwise, yeah.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by johnpost

plug something into it like a radio turned on and go flip the circuit breaker off or unscrew the fuse. if it stops playing then you can have confidence that the circuit is turned off.

I would just like to point out that if your house is wired where the neutral is shared with another circuit, the neutral could still be live even though the receptacle is "dead".
Ask me how I know this.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

Dude, the local hardware stores have vanished. If there are any left, I don't know where they are. They're gone. Hiller went this past year.

They're still out there. You just need to look for them -- they aren't out in big shopping centers like the big box stores.

The Ace coop chain has 4,600 stores in the USA, for example. And True Value also has about 5,000.

Originally Posted by Zsofia

It's plaster, which I reeeeally don't want to fuck with.

Plaster is much easier to work with than a tiled bathroom wall -- go for it. I agree with gotpassword that this is a real good time to expand that to a dual receptacle box.

[Terry Kennedy]

Originally Posted by johnpost

plug something into it like a radio turned on and go flip the circuit breaker off or unscrew the fuse. if it stops playing then you can have confidence that the circuit is turned off.

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Make sure both plugs are not operable before removal; it is possible to wire each half separately, and if you don't know what you're looking for one might be alive whilst the other isn't.

In addition, I don't think the OP mentioned how old the house is. If the wiring dates back to the 1930's, it may have fuses in both the hot and neutral legs. This can lead to a nasty surprise if you happen to unscrew the neutral. If you have circuit breakers, this won't be a problem.

Even if the wiring is newer than that, the insulating jacket may have become brittle over the years. Older insulation was cloth weave over natural rubber. If you pull the receptacle away from the box and insulation flakes off the wires, stop, leave the power off, and consult a professional.

Otherwise, you should be Ok doing it yourself.

[AClockworkMelon]

I read the thread title as "Fire in the toilet." I am disappointed. Carry on.

[Zsofia]

The house is from 1928 but the wiring seems to have been redone in the 90's. (It certainly isn't knob and whatchamacallit!)

[Mr. Duality]

And get a new boyfriend. This one could well be fatal.

[johnpost]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

The house is from 1928 but the wiring seems to have been redone in the 90's. (It certainly isn't knob and whatchamacallit!)

tube

you are in good shape with new wiring.

[aceplace57]

My electric dryer cord was damaged by loose contacts in an outlet. It had been plugged in for 15 years. The receptacle was at least 30 years old. I guess old age got it.

Funny story. I called an appliance service guy for the dryer. He quickly figured out it was the cord. Replaced the cord and plugged it in. Sparks flew! Very Quickly unplugged it and told me to call an electrician. Wires were badly burned and there wasn't any slack to cut off and reattach. They had to run a new wire.

[Chefguy]

You might think about checking the rest of the outlets in your home also. Loose outlets arc, as mentioned. If you've never checked the outlet under your sink which powers the dishwasher and garbage disposal, it's a good idea to do so. Motors usually have a relatively hefty current draw (compared to a lightbulb, for instance), and you want a tight connection for them.

Small embarassing anecdote: when the dishwasher in our old home stopped working, I invoked the Sears warranty and the guy came, tore the thing apart, couldn't find anything wrong, plugged it back in and it worked. A few days later, it quit again. Frustrated, I got down on hands and knees under the sink and pulled out the plug. I'm kneeling there with the plug in my hand and peering around under the sink, when my wife says "how come the plug thingy is all black?" Turns out the problem was a loose outlet, and the plug was burned so badly it wasn't making proper contact. The embarassing part: I was an electrician for 20 years.

[Zsofia]

Check them as in check for wiggle?

[johnpost]

using a high quality receptacle for locations that you plug and unplug frequently is good because it will last longer between replacement.

it is also good to check receptacles that are left plugged in for long periods for wiggle of the plug and blackness on the prongs. if you see blackness you should clean the prongs to shining metal with sand paper and the receptacle may need replacement. if the plug wiggles then you might bend the prongs slightly in or out and the receptacle may need replacement. either blackness or wiggle are signs of a worn receptacle which is or would become a fire hazard.

in receptacles that remain with a plug in, especially high current draws (freezer, refrigerator, air conditioner, sump pump), it also makes sense to use a quality receptacle. in a quality receptacle the contacts are higher quality and will make and pass the higher current better. it is good to check these receptacles once a year for tightness and if the prongs are not blackened.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

Check them as in check for wiggle?

Outlets past their prime will be very loose. In some cases, the plug may even fall out by itself. A wiggle test is good, but pull the plug out of the receptacle and check for scorch marks that may indicate arcing, particularly for high-amperage outlets.

Oops, scooped by johnpost.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

My electric dryer cord was damaged by loose contacts in an outlet. It had been plugged in for 15 years. The receptacle was at least 30 years old. I guess old age got it.

Funny story. I called an appliance service guy for the dryer. He quickly figured out it was the cord. Replaced the cord and plugged it in. Sparks flew! Very Quickly unplugged it and told me to call an electrician. Wires were badly burned and there wasn't any slack to cut off and reattach. They had to run a new wire.

The wires wouldn't be badly burned from those sparks if you very quickly unplugged it -- that was scorching/overheating over several years. So replacing the wire was the right thing to do. Given at least 30 years, you got your money's worth out of the old wire.

[UncleFred]

Originally Posted by Philster

If at all possible, plug and unplug items when they are 'off'. I know that sometimes it is not possible, but do so when it is.

We have an 'all-in-one' copier/printer/fax/whatever which has no on/off switch. Plugging/unplugging the line cord is your power on/off.

For some reason this thread reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan" (I think it was) where human expatriates on Mars(?) are sent in fleets of flying saucers to invade the Earth. The flying saucers have just 2 controls ; an On switch and an Off switch. The On switch initiates a preprogrammed flight to Earth. The Off switch doesn't do anything, but was put there by Martian mental health experts who knew that humans are only happy with machines they think they can shut off.

[Zsofia]

Okay, I successfully replaced the outlet. (It wasn't a bigger box, and it was getting dark so I said to hell with it and still only have one.) My question is, why did the instructions specify to do the ground wire with a connecting wire wire-nutted onto the ground that came out of the wall? The old one was like that too, which confused the hell out of me. What's the advantage there?

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

My question is, why did the instructions specify to do the ground wire with a connecting wire wire-nutted onto the ground that came out of the wall? The old one was like that too, which confused the hell out of me. What's the advantage there?

You mean that the receptacle had a green terminal screw, with a segment of wire attached, which in turn was nutted to a wire in the box--part of the house wiring?

There's no advantage to that, unless the house wire is so short that it's hard to get it on the terminal screw.

A few devices don't have the terminal screw, but simply a green wire.

[boytyperanma]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

Okay, I successfully replaced the outlet. (It wasn't a bigger box, and it was getting dark so I said to hell with it and still only have one.) My question is, why did the instructions specify to do the ground wire with a connecting wire wire-nutted onto the ground that came out of the wall? The old one was like that too, which confused the hell out of me. What's the advantage there?

There is an assumption with outlets you will be doing them in series. There are 2 lugs for the neutral and the hot but only one for the ground. So in order to put use an outlet in series you would have to wire nut the ground. ie they say that so idiots don't try and put two wires under the one ground lug.

[Zsofia]

The instructions told me to use a piece of wire specifically and connect it - I had the one that had been attached to the previous box.

ETA - these were the instructions for an outlet not in a series - they were separate instructions.

[johnpost]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

Okay, I successfully replaced the outlet. My question is, why did the instructions specify to do the ground wire with a connecting wire wire-nutted onto the ground that came out of the wall? The old one was like that too, which confused the hell out of me. What's the advantage there?

Good doing.

you would use a wire nut (USA brand/term of wire connector) because of multiple wires. You might have the GFCI feeding other receptacles needing another wire, it also common to have a wire fasten to the box itself (if metal), other situations could add another ground wire.

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

There is an assumption with outlets you will be doing them in series. There are 2 lugs for the neutral and the hot but only one for the ground. So in order to put use an outlet in series you would have to wire nut the ground. ie they say that so idiots don't try and put two wires under the one ground lug.

Unless it's half-switched, I always pigtail hot in/hot out and neutral in/neutral out together anyway--that's safer than using the terminal screws. And for the ground, that kind of pigtailing is required by code no matter what the device or circuit configuration.

But wait, this is a GFI we're talking about? Zsofia, are you sure your wires are on the "line" side terminals?

[Zsofia]

There's only one outlet in the bathroom. It's fault protecting itself. Just one cord coming into the box. Nothing coming out. Three wires.

[johnpost]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

There's only one outlet in the bathroom. It's fault protecting itself. Just one cord coming into the box. Nothing coming out. Three wires.

you would have the grounding wire on the incoming cable, a wire to the grounding screw on the box (if metal), a wire to the GFCI, three wires connected with a wire nut.

if you had a plastic box then the grounding wire on the incoming cable could go right to the GFCI.

[Kevbo]

Am I the only one that expected this thread to be about Mexican food?