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#1
06-21-2010, 12:05 AM
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$49/hr, 1 hour minimum...it that too complicated.
As many of you know I run a PC shop....
All of our in shop services much more than....uh, windows 98? You sure you wanna fix that? Come with a 1 hour minimum labor charge. Generally we don't charge more than that one hour if the customer declines to pursue the repair... Ok, it happens all the time. Being the nice guys we usually offer to dump the customers personal files to a DVD or two so they are getting something for the $49 other than the news that computer has gone the way of its ancestors. Sometimes it takes a couple extra DVD's, we usually let it go... Computer comes in 2 months ago....customer states there are two files he really needs for work, system not firing up so, we pull the drive, mount it to a shop machine, pull those two files and copy to his thumb drive...no problemo. We call back with the diagnosis later that afternoon, bad motherboard. Customer declines the repair and says he will pick it up later in the week. We offer him the backup option, he says no he just wants to pick it up. 8 weeks pass... He calls and states that he has a bunch of pictures of sentimental value on the computer and wants them transferred to DVD. I tell him no problem I will start on it right away. He then follows up with, "thats no charge right?" I reply that the only charge would be the outstanding $49 from her original estimate. him:"but I just want my data, not the computer." Recites long list of important event pictures, baby pics, etc on machine. me: "I understand that, but all of our services to come with a 1 hour minimum as stated on your estimate. I have no problem including the data recovery on that $49 charge but it does still stand." Him: "I don't care about the computer, I just need you to remove my files." Me: "The charge for that is $49" Him: "but thats for the computer, I don't want the computer, just the files." Me: "Honestly sir, I don't want your computer either, You are asking me to perform additional work on your machine, which I am offering to do at no additional charge beyond the $49" Him: "Well I did not authorize you to charge me for a data recovery so you cannot charge me for that! In addition you already backed up some of my files when I brought it in and didn't charge me then, so you can't charge me now." So we did you a favor that allowed you to continue working on your project, before we knew the extent of your problem, and you see it as case law  its official no good bit of customer service goes unpunished.Me: actually sir as long as I do not exceed the dollar value of the initial estimate I am in the clear here, I have no desire to charge you a bunch of extra money, if you were having this discussion with "Competitor X" it would be an extra $120 above and beyond the inital $49. Him: Fine, keep the damn pictures they were not that important anyway jerk. Hangs up. This is pretty much the smallest bill we write, we charge less than many of our competitors, and now they don't want to pay. Is this too complicated of a policy? Should I just start charging a diagnostic fee and start charging for the repairs after that. Does he really think that just because we have a defacto machanics lein on the machine but that the data, the only thing you are interested in, is somehow magically immune and I am duty bound to hand over your pictures of your ingrateful yuppy larvae for free because...I dunno Does this guy just have a degree in Cognitive Dissonance? I am going to go play Halflife2 Deathmatch now and wonder if the red hot rebar in a crossbow treatment would fix whatever is wrong with this guy. Last edited by drachillix; 06-21-2010 at 12:09 AM. 
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#2
06-21-2010, 12:35 AM
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When I was in the auto repair business, we'd get guys like this all the time:
Idiot Customer: "So you'll diagnose my engine for me, and then I'll take it home and fix it myself." Enter the Flagon: "Well, the diagnostic charge will be $55 per hour. Few cars end up needing more than a single hour, but I'll call you if we end up needing more time than that." IC: "Oh, no, I don't want to pay for it, you should include it in the cost of the repair." EtF: "A repair which you don't want performed, right?" IC: "Right." EtF: "So you're here to see if you can get something for nothing." IC: "No, I just want my car diagnosed. Why would you charge just to look at my car, if you're not going to fix it? That's dishonest." EtF: "Look, just come get your car, OK?" Idiots.
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#3
06-21-2010, 01:28 AM
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It's the old 80/20 rule again. 20 percent of your customers will give you 80 percent of your headaches. There are some people who WILL try to get something for nothing, and who will refuse to acknowledge that businesses need to turn a profit if they are going to stay in business. Hell, if you could get the old files out of my Win98 box for $49, or even $98, I would pay up gladly, and bake you a batch of chocolate chip cookies on top of the payment. It's something that I can't do, and the old files aren't really worth that much in monetary terms, but I have some of my articles and recipes and photos on there. And I'm not even a reasonable person! It's just that I believe in giving value for value.
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#4
06-21-2010, 01:50 AM
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It's extra fun when people do it with their pets.
"Why do we need these diagnostics? My knowing my pet is way more valuable than your years of education and experience. Just sell me some antibiotics." "I can't afford that. Why can't you help me for free? You must not care about animals."
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#5
06-21-2010, 06:41 AM
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I commonly refer to some of my most valued customers as cuntomers. You may or may not ask why, but given that you seem to have the same problems, you properly do understand. While most people are decent and don’t expect things for FREE and just pay their bill without any problems. Things our warranty does NOT cover:
Things we do not do for FREE:
Scenario: Customer is in a hurry to get setup and asks for a quote on 3 Office PC’s and 2 Laptops, onsite Setup and Networking them with simple file sharing between the PC’s Quote: Price for 3 PC’s and 2 Laptops and Network cables and FREE delivery and onsite and network setup Result: A phone call 3 weeks later Cuntomer: “I’ve got the computers now, jeppers, that took a long time, so when can you come out to set them up?” Me: Sorry Sir, what do you mean? What do you want me to do? Cuntomer: Set up the PC’s I got from Dell, of cos. Sorry they were just cheaper on the PC’s and Laptops than you. Me: OK, no problem, I’ll be there tomorrow Cuntomers: So, you cannot come today? I’m eager to get going, since I was waiting 3 weeks already. Me: No, it’s already 3:30PM and I have appointments already, but I can do it first thing in the moring. Cuntomer: Fine, then..... but be there first thing, I don’t want anymore delays. The next morning...... After 4 hours setting up his Dell PC’s & Laptops and getting the damn printer to work, pulling cables and putting his network in place, moving files from his old none working POS laptop onto the Network PC........ well, I gave him an invoice for the work done. His reply: “But I thought onsite setup and setup of the Network is FREE?” ME: Yes, with OUR PC’s, purchased from us......we are not working for Dell Cuntomer: But, but then I did not save anything..... so, why would I do that? It even costs me more now? Why? Me: No idea, but why would I set up goods, that you bought somewhere else for FREE? Cuntomer: But you never told me that you will charge me. Me: You called me to perform a service, right? And I am charging for these services. I only quoted you free onsite setup with networking, when you buy the goods from us. Since you bought the goods from Dell, I have to charge for the work done. Cuntomer: Ah, well..... I feel a bit ripped off. ........ well, eventually he paid...... but a pain in the arse Last edited by Doughbag; 06-21-2010 at 06:43 AM.
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#6
06-21-2010, 07:00 AM
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To avoid some confusing, you could do what some car dealers do. When the customer walks in the door with their computer, before you do anything, charge them $49. Actually write them a bill for a minimum one hour, and collect the money. Then you can explain to them that the $49 will cover finding the problem and if after we find the problem we can fix it within the hour we'll go ahead and do that, but if it's going to take longer then an hour or if it's going to need parts, we'll give you a call and discuss your options before we go any further. Since their $49 is already gone, they're not as likely to fight you over charging them just to tell them what's wrong with it. I'm mean, it's customer service, someone's always going to fight you over something, but this may lessen that.
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#7
06-21-2010, 07:05 AM
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To the OP it might be worth stating that it is $49 for any service minimum, rather than per hour? Or maybe if there is a list of common specific things that people ask you could have a price list for them, but that might leave you out of pocket. Some "cuntomers"
 are a pain in the ass, and while some people realise you are providing a great service, others are of the give an inch, take a mile persuasion.
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#8
06-21-2010, 07:07 AM
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I got a freelance job off one of these fuckers, to write a brochure and website text. I negotiated €450 for the job. Worked on it for a long time, bla bla bla, several different iterations. Submitted it, and we meet in a hotel, and he says to me "we didn't think it was high enough quality, so we're only going to pay you €150 for your time". I was gutted but realised that I didn't have the resources to try to get him to the small claims court. So I reluctantly agreed. Then just as he was leaving he said "I'll only pay you the €150 if I get to keep the brochure." I was unemployed and desperate for the money right then and there, so I agreed, got the cash, then walked into the car park alternately swearing at myself and going  . Wanker.
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#9
06-21-2010, 07:23 AM
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So, you're going to charge me $50 just to LOOK at it? Yes.
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#10
06-21-2010, 08:03 AM
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I have to wonder if this guy had been authorized to pay you the full amount, but decided that he'd only pay you the €150, and keep the difference for himself?
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#11
06-21-2010, 08:24 AM
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Properly told his Boss something like: "that the "fecker" wanted €550, but I only gave him the €450, that bloody Yank"
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#12
06-21-2010, 08:27 AM
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We introduced a €20 charge for PC's or Laptop. We try to collect it at drop-off, but sometimes they don't have the money so we charge at collection and if they don't pay, they dont get their parts back until they pay. Pain in the arse, but the staff wants to be paid, I need to eat, pay the rent etc.....
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#14
06-21-2010, 08:51 AM
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But, as others have said I would get the minimum up front at the time customer leaves the machine.
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#15
06-21-2010, 09:25 AM
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My happy true story circa 1979 ...
Visiting Reno Nevada with somewhat faulty carbureter I drop car off at a repair shop, then come back about 2 days later. The guy (with German accent) starts rattling off the things he tried in an unsuccessful effort to diagnose or fix the carbureter. Knowing nothing of cars I let him finish, then ask what I owe. "Nothing!" he says. "I couldn't fix it!" (This story is just my unusual anecdote and is not intended to counter OP. I certainly sympathise with the idea of being paid for one's work. The car in question, BTW, might have been Datsun 240Z, but my long-ago cars blur together now. And, no, remembering it as the "defective car" wouldn't narrow it down.  )
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#17
06-21-2010, 01:18 PM
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And then there are the times when they actively try to scam you.
Umpteen years ago in the 486/pentium age I was a tech in a computer shop. One afternoon I came back from lunch to find a frankensteined user built monstrosity in my queue with a note that I had worked on it previously and the problem had returned and this was to be a warranty repair. First off, if this thing had ever been in front of me I would have remembered it. Those of you with tech shops know exactly what I mean. A month or a year later, you'll remember everything you had to do to it in excruciating detail. But as standard procedure I pulled the original invoice to see what I had done. Reading the ticket I immediately remembered the PC, it was Frankenstein's bastard brother. The original was a desktop and the one just presented was a tower. The hardware I had sold them to fix the hard drive laying loose on the bottom of the case was nowhere to be seen and would have been unnecessary in the tower. I did a "Hey Boss!" and filled him in. He called the customer and suggested to them that they had misremembered which PC they brought in the first time. Did they still want me to fix this one? Umm, umm, umm. sure. No, there is no coupon to fix two pc's for the price of one.
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#18
06-21-2010, 02:24 PM
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Even though it's a small amount of customers that pull that kind of crap make sure you get people to sign something saying they owe you a $49 bench fee or diagnostic fee or whatever. Make sure it says clealry that anything left over 30 or 60 days is considered abandoned and you are not responsible for it. I assume that if someone has an old computer that isn't really worth fixing you tell them that up front. HAving the rare customer stiff you is a part of doing business but it never feels good especially when they act as if you're somehow screwing them. At the music store we had a ticket that said we were not responsible for anything left over 30 days. The head of our repair department would call people and make a note on thier file every time he called. We usually held stuff for 45 to 60 days with a final warning of "You need to come pick this up by close of business on date X. After that we sold it to recoup the cost of repairs. Still. some customers were really pissed and ranted and raved about thier stuff. We were always willing to compromise and work with people but there are those who will repeatedly take advantage if you let them. You don't need those customers. I never minded talking to pissed off customers who came in with a bad attitude. Never any real argument. You left your stuff here for X amount of days, well over the time on the paper you signed , and you never paid your bill. "But you sold MY AMP. You have no right to sell MY AMP." It stopped being your amp when you abandoned it and didn't pay your bill. I'm sorry, but we're in business and we expect to be paid for our work just like you do. We can't store gear indefinately until you feel like coming in. We called you 4 times and you never came in. At least half the customers understood. The half that insisted we were crooks can go elsewhere. In every business I've ever worked at with various merchandise those cusomers exist. "Yes I know you sell your furniture at 1/4 of the standard price but can't you deliver it and assemble it for me too? The other people do. " "The people that charge full price you mean. Four times as much?"
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#19
06-21-2010, 03:08 PM
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When you get a car estimate, they can generally figure out what's wrong within a few minutes, but the cost of that is relatively small compared to the final cost because the parts and labor can be expensive. With a computer, diagnosing whether it is a burned motherboard or video card or a virus or whatever takes time, but replacing a videocard takes a matter of minutes; hell, installing a known working card is potentially even part of the diagnosis process. Thus, the cost of the estimate is often not insignificant relative to the cost of the repair and, providing it for free, will almost always make it cheaper to either take it somewhere else or do it themselves. So, it only makes sense to get some guaranteed money up front. I just can't see someone being motivated enough to bring their computer into a repair shop, but not willing to spend either at least $49 for repairs or at least for their data so they have it for their new computer. So, it should work out roughly the same, but keep you clear of situations like in the OP.
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#20
06-22-2010, 06:05 AM
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Just imagen how long it will take to back-up this amount of data onto a 4.5GB DVD. Keeping track of what you burned and each DVD to burn will take 7 minutes, you are talking about hours of work there. Now just imagine, when you do repair PC's, you have to store this data somehow, for one PC, not a biggy, but 3 or 5 or maybe even 10 different customers - you are running into storage problems. We had this particular problem several times. Our competitor over the road charges €140 for backing up your files, then €120 for reinstalling your OS and getting it somewhat ready again. We charge €85 for both services and people still complain about being ripped off.
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#21
06-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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Fuckers like that pray on us little freelancers because they assume we have no back-up. I never let them get away with it.
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#22
06-22-2010, 04:53 PM
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I have had half a dozen situations where do it yourselfers bought cheapo generic shit, had me install it, then got pissed when I would not replace the drive for free later.
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#23
06-22-2010, 04:54 PM
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#24
06-22-2010, 05:00 PM
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#25
06-22-2010, 05:35 PM
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2064879/boneyard.jpg You are basically looking at $1300 worth of never came back over the last 3-4 months. On the plus side, we can often sell off the used parts for more than the $49 in the grand scheme of things, just sucks to have to go to the effort. Most of these machines are blown mobos on socket 478/754 machines that are of questionable worth even to refurb and sell as used. But its not too hard to get $20 for a used 80gb hard drive and $10 for a used DVD/CDRW, $5-10 for used sticks of RAM, $20 for a used CPU, etc. Last edited by drachillix; 06-22-2010 at 05:36 PM.
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#26
06-22-2010, 05:41 PM
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#27
06-22-2010, 05:52 PM
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I'd say: "We charge a flat fee of $49 to diagnose your problem. If you want us to even glance at your computer, it will cost you $49. Afterward, if you decide to have us go ahead and repair your system, the diagnostic feed will be applied toward the total cost of the repair."
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#28
06-22-2010, 06:24 PM
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I remember hearing a LOT of people complain to the cashier about the diagnostic fee. She would tell them a lot of what you explained. If that didn't satisfy them the service manager on duty would come over and do the same. There was a woman who owned two florist shops who would always want to fight with them about servicing their delivery vans. She was hateful and awful. I remember the service manager trying to tell her "What if I called to have you make me and arrangement for a centerpiece for a party and you spent an hour or so putting it together? What if instead of paying for it I just came in and took a picture of it so I could replicate it myself at home?" Although I thought it was a decent comparison, she disagreed. Thank goodness the owner of the dealership finally got sick of it and told her not to come back.
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#29
06-22-2010, 08:44 PM
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I'll second the suggestion to take a minimum payment up front before you even look at the machine. The shop I work at just implemented a new policy requiring all non-invoiced customers (regular Joe Schmoes off the street) to pay up front for anything they order. We were getting stiffed left and right before this. Most of our problems were from flaky people who decided they wanted a set of business cards or brochures one day and then decided to never return our emails/calls after we'd worked hard on a design for them. And, we had issues with a few customers who we'd nicely allowed to build up a tab. And, of course we've had customers who've never come to pick up their completed order because they found it somewhere else $5 cheaper AFTER we'd started on their order.
When we first implemented the policy, we were slightly concerned that we'd lose potential customers who were afraid to financially commit before seeing a sample. In the last month, we've had maybe 4-5 disappear after telling us they'd have to come back to pay the deposit. And you know what? I'm very thankful those 4-5 people didn't come back. If you're afraid to pay up front for customized work, then I will find it very hard to trust your willingness to not shaft us.
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#30
06-22-2010, 09:29 PM
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#32
06-22-2010, 09:58 PM
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Last edited by Rand Rover; 06-22-2010 at 09:59 PM.
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#33
06-23-2010, 08:04 AM
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#34
06-23-2010, 08:16 AM
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We had a retired gent fixing band instruments who charged very reasonable prices. He'd fix a clarinet for $30 or $40 bucks and people would still bitch. One lady complained and claimed that the quote was lower {some employee guessing} so I called her and gave her a reduced price. Her husband came in and picked it up and she called me to complain again because the reduced price I quoted hadn't included tax. Often I feel like saying "You've shopped in this country for a few years right?" because people seem so clueless about how transactions work.
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#35
06-23-2010, 08:28 AM
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OTOH I get very tired of customers thinking they have no personal responsibility to ask questions and use a little common sense. If you agree to pay X for Y service and then ask for something else don't expect it to be included for free. I've pointed our return policy to people , posted in huge letters in the store and printed on thier reciept and their excuse is "Well you know people never read those things" as if that's our fault as well. Last edited by cosmosdan; 06-23-2010 at 08:31 AM.
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#36
06-23-2010, 08:34 AM
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Last edited by cosmosdan; 06-23-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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#37
06-23-2010, 08:50 AM
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The nice older gent who fixed horns for us introduced me to that phrase. He said some customers are always going to be a pain and they just aren't worth it. My brother turned his hobby of repairing old clocks into a side business. Drove out to a customers house {about 40 minutes} and fixed their antique mantel clock on the spot. Gave the guy a bill and he complained it was too high. My brother explained it was actually very fair considering the house call. The guy continued to try and haggle and finally my brother said " I don't have time to argue. My price is fair but pay me what you think it's worth" customer "Is $$50 okay?" brother "No it isn't, but if that's what you're willing to pay then pay it and I'll be on my way" The pay off was 8 or 9 months later when then guy called back to have that same clock repaired again. brother " After what happened when I did work for you before I'm not interested in doing any work for you again" customer "but who am I going to get to repair it?" brother " I wouldn't send anyone I know your way, so you'll have to find someone on your own" gotta love those little moments of satisfaction. Last edited by cosmosdan; 06-23-2010 at 08:50 AM.
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#38
06-23-2010, 11:03 AM
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I have a question for the people who run a computer shop. Do you guys...look at the pictures in the computers? Because sometimes I have issues and I want to take my computer in, but I have lots and lots of porn on it, to the point where it would be embarassing. Are tech people laughing behind my back when I do need one?
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#39
06-23-2010, 12:26 PM
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#40
06-23-2010, 01:02 PM
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We have had several folks with pornographic screensavers that we shut off just to avoid upsetting other customers, one lady had the windows screensaver set to my pictures and had an extensive picture collection of herself and several smokin hot friends at the beach, in the hottub, on a cruise, etc. A few guys parked on the couch and just drooled...I could have sold a ton of popcorn.
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#41
06-23-2010, 01:15 PM
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#42
06-23-2010, 01:18 PM
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#43
06-23-2010, 01:27 PM
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When it came time to check out our group did a mental tally of what we thought we owed and asked it that was right, and he shrugged and said "whatever you think you owe, man". I certainly didn't want to lowball him, and never would. The annoyance came in wondering if A) we were way low in what we owed him, and he secretly thought we were trying to get away with something and so would resent us even though we made an honest mistake, or B) we calculated too high and he was lackadaisical because he thought he was going to get a lot of money
Last edited by Ludovic; 06-23-2010 at 01:27 PM.
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#44
06-23-2010, 03:35 PM
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#45
06-24-2010, 01:59 AM
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My point is, some people will cheat and steal at every opportunity. And if you are in a position of power, you should do everything you can to deny these people a chance to cheat and steal from YOU and your business. So what if they can't get their clock repaired, or their computer fixed? Actions should have consequences, and maybe, just maybe, they'll learn from the experience.
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#46
06-24-2010, 03:00 AM
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We have had one place go to state consumer affairs to file a complaint, after the investigator discussed it with me the complaint was dismissed as without merit and no fines or problems were listed on my licencing. One customer went to the better business bureau because several weeks after a virus cleanup she started getting error messages again, she had revirused it, we went ahead and took care of it. Machine still seemed kinda slow and hard drive light was on alot so we loaded up our HDD tester, it was forecasting a hard drive failure in about 6 weeks. We informed the customer of this and she freaked out just knowing we did something to come up with an excuse to charge more money.  all we were going to do was charge her for the drive and clone it over.Her complaint to the BBB demanded that we replace her hard drive because we should have seen the problem before. Fortunately the BBB saw things my way especially when we presented it as "customer is demanding we provide warranty replacements for parts we did not install or provide". Customer never replied again, BBB wrote it off as resolved.
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#47
06-24-2010, 04:39 AM
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It probably wouldn't work well if there was a lot of people doing it, but so long as you're dealing with honest folk (like you and your friends) and there is enough information to figure out the "right" price, it does work.
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#48
06-24-2010, 05:57 AM
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Still, you have to find the balance between sales and that kind of loss. Sometimes being to overly zealous costs you sales and honest customers. I always act as if the customer has made an honest mistake. We had a real problem with customers switching price tags or removing them and hoping by asking "how much is this?" they'd get a better price. If it's something really overt then it's a different story.
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#49
06-24-2010, 06:56 AM
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Our pricing is somewhat middle of the road and usually we don't have a problem, execpt with some clowns.
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#50
06-24-2010, 07:02 AM
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Unless your screensaver starts showing your naked pics, we just back up your "Crap"........ and if your a hot chick.... sorry for looking..... but if your a fat guy with his wiener.....juck... wtf would I look? I heard this every day: these documents are confidential, privat, importand, etc...... I've got no time to look at customers stuff and I also do not care about it...... move it from A to B, fix A, then move files back to A - get paid...... and getting paid is what I look out for.
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