Voter fraud and tampering

[bullrun]

I graduated college with a History major along with another one. I taught History before in my younger days. Now....it is a hobby of mine. I know something about it though I do not claim to be an expert. Hardly anyone is.
I say this to somewhat qualify what I will talk about. I see a great deal of tampering with our voting system. Especially by the left. There has been allegations computer tampering with voting results. The DOJ has flagrantly allowed anti-whtie racism in the form of voter-intimidation by black panthers standing and threatening people at the polls. We know, without a doubt, that there are many instances of illegal aliens voting with fake identification papers. ACORN has been accused many times that their voter enlistment programs are illegal and many of the voters they sign up or voting more than once and are committing other offenses. Their voters have signed up with many different names, including names llike .."Micky Mouse and Minnie Mouse". Voting is just apparently a joke to some of them. Felons are voting. Some politicians have openly calling for allowing aliens to vote. Most of these politicians are ignorant of the Constitution. People are losing faith in the vote-count facilities and computers. People are beginnning to feel that their vote doesn't matter because the "fix is in".
These people who believe the voting system is corrupt are correct. However the corruption is corroding the whole political system in many ways. This group of people is growing.
Beside electing whom leftist want elected....the corrupt system also causes thousands a year to lose faith in the system and in America. If people cannot feel that their vote counts and that their vote will not be tampered with; then they have two paths to take.
One is that they just give up and quit voting. That choice is what the left hopes will take place. The other choice is to react violently and make their changes by the point of a gun. They are betting (hoping) that will not happen.
Other societies in history have lost faith in their governments. They usually end up putting their nation in the hands of a charismatic dictator who promises to take care of everything and to restore the nation to simpler, more prosperous days.
We MUST clamp down on any and all vote improprieties. Voting is a sacred right that keeps this nation relativiely peaceful and insures the a quiet and smooth transfer of power. When voting does not work.....violence insues.
We are headed for a dictatorship. It always happens. Especially when the government has descended into the depths that this one has. This government is similar to the Weimar Republic of yesteryear in Germany. Read up on it.
The Weimar Republic was a weak, corrupt, leftist government in Germany that was hated by most Germans because of its corruption. Germans had lost faith in their government and as a sidelight...they thought their vote was being watered down and corrupted. It preceded the takeover by Hitler. Hitler was (at first) thought of as a hero to Germans maily because he destroyed the Weirmar regime. Obama's regime is our 'Weimar".
Either we clear up the problem at the polls and start arresting those who vote more than once or tamper with the polls in any form...; or we watch as the population completely loses faith in the govermnent and clamour for the complete rule of a strong man among us who promises us a return to past glories.

[Giles]

Do you have any kind of cite for any of your allegations?

[hotflungwok]

Oh Beavis Christ. What does your being a history major have anything to do with your obvious confirmation bias when it comes to voting fraud allegations?

I saw story after story about altered registrations, destroying registration forms, plus all the stories about Diebold in the 2004 election, and all of these are right wing. So you're saying these are in the minority? Care to back this up?

And ACORN? Are you kidding me? We've done this to death, but here we go again. Those fake voting registration forms with fake names on them were caught by ACORN. They were made by employees who wanted to pad their actual work so they'd get paid more. Once again ACORN caught them, not FOX, not Rush, not O'Reilly, ACORN. And even if they missed some, you still have to have a valid ID to vote. So the only way Micky Mouse is voting is if he has a valid ID saying that he is in fact Micky Mouse.

Oh and it ends with a threat of revolution, great. Bush drives the country into a ditch, and now the people who supported him are screaming about the cost of the tow truck cuz their guy isn't in power any more. Gimmie a break. Yes, voting is important. Obvious misrepresentation, bias, and threats about voting are just another form of fraud.

[Chronos]

hotflungwok, you forgot to mention Rush Limbaugh urging his listeners to commit vote fraud. Representing yourself as a member of a different party for purposes of sabotaging their primary is a crime in several states.

[Kolga]

If the OP was a teacher, I'll either eat my hat, weep for the future of education in this country, or finally understand where some of my students came from.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by bullrun

We know, without a doubt, that there are many instances of illegal aliens voting with fake identification papers.

Yeah, I've read that many times before. I've challenged Dopers to come up with cites for that many times in GD. It seems to be all smoke.

Relevant GD threads from the past few years, in reverse chronological order:

Get-out-the-vote and voter suppression are not equally legitimate political tactics

USA Tim Griffin/"caging lists" redux

"Voter fraud" think-tank mysteriously vanishes

Election Assistance Commission gags co-author of "Voter Fraud" report from speaking

Come on! Let's have some proof, already, that "false voters" really are a problem!

RFK Jr. files whistleblower suit against Diebold

How big a problem is "voting fraud" in the U.S.?

Senators Boxer and Clinton propose "Count Every Vote Act"

Can anyone name any defensible, legitimate value to "voter suppression"?

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

Oh Beavis Christ. What does your being a history major have anything to do with your obvious confirmation bias when it comes to voting fraud allegations?

I saw story after story about altered registrations, destroying registration forms, plus all the stories about Diebold in the 2004 election, and all of these are right wing. So you're saying these are in the minority? Care to back this up?

And ACORN? Are you kidding me? We've done this to death, but here we go again. Those fake voting registration forms with fake names on them were caught by ACORN. They were made by employees who wanted to pad their actual work so they'd get paid more. Once again ACORN caught them, not FOX, not Rush, not O'Reilly, ACORN. And even if they missed some, you still have to have a valid ID to vote. So the only way Micky Mouse is voting is if he has a valid ID saying that he is in fact Micky Mouse.

Oh and it ends with a threat of revolution, great. Bush drives the country into a ditch, and now the people who supported him are screaming about the cost of the tow truck cuz their guy isn't in power any more. Gimmie a break. Yes, voting is important. Obvious misrepresentation, bias, and threats about voting are just another form of fraud.

YOu seem upset...libtard! Is it that people are on to your group's voting fraud and will watch it more closely than ever? I see you did not say anything in reference to the 'black panther voting intimidation'. I guess that is alright with a libtard like you.
I mentioned 'history' because it repeats itself. We are heading for a dictatorship and I promise...it will not be obama leading it and it will not be leftist (as you are apt to believe).

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by Kolga

If the OP was a teacher, I'll either eat my hat, weep for the future of education in this country, or finally understand where some of my students came from.

Liberals have ruined education. They ruin anything they touch.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Yeah, I've read that many times before. I've challenged Dopers to come up with cites for that many times in GD. It seems to be all smoke.

Relevant GD threads from the past few years, in reverse chronological order:

Get-out-the-vote and voter suppression are not equally legitimate political tactics

USA Tim Griffin/"caging lists" redux

"Voter fraud" think-tank mysteriously vanishes

Election Assistance Commission gags co-author of "Voter Fraud" report from speaking

Come on! Let's have some proof, already, that "false voters" really are a problem!

RFK Jr. files whistleblower suit against Diebold

How big a problem is "voting fraud" in the U.S.?

Senators Boxer and Clinton propose "Count Every Vote Act"

Can anyone name any defensible, legitimate value to "voter suppression"?

Come on ...libtard. We know and we can prove it. It has been proven before and lawsuits have been lauched and won over this issue. That is a favorite ploy of the libtard left. You put your hands on your hips and give your best gay pose and say..."do you have any sites to list about that?" Is seems that you never have sites to list unless they are from some communist left leaning blog.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by Giles

Do you have any kind of cite for any of your allegations?

Puhleeeeeze....Giles....ESAD.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

Oh Beavis Christ. What does your being a history major have anything to do with your obvious confirmation bias when it comes to voting fraud allegations?

I saw story after story about altered registrations, destroying registration forms, plus all the stories about Diebold in the 2004 election, and all of these are right wing. So you're saying these are in the minority? Care to back this up?

And ACORN? Are you kidding me? We've done this to death, but here we go again. Those fake voting registration forms with fake names on them were caught by ACORN. They were made by employees who wanted to pad their actual work so they'd get paid more. Once again ACORN caught them, not FOX, not Rush, not O'Reilly, ACORN. And even if they missed some, you still have to have a valid ID to vote. So the only way Micky Mouse is voting is if he has a valid ID saying that he is in fact Micky Mouse.

Oh and it ends with a threat of revolution, great. Bush drives the country into a ditch, and now the people who supported him are screaming about the cost of the tow truck cuz their guy isn't in power any more. Gimmie a break. Yes, voting is important. Obvious misrepresentation, bias, and threats about voting are just another form of fraud.

NO...they were NOT caught by ACORN.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by bullrun

Come on ...libtard. We know and we can prove it. It has been proven before and lawsuits have been lauched and won over this issue. That is a favorite ploy of the libtard left. You put your hands on your hips and give your best gay pose and say..."do you have any sites to list about that?" Is seems that you never have sites to list unless they are from some communist left leaning blog.

Also....in 2007 the republicans tried to pass a law that simply said that everyone who is to vote must....must...show legitimate Identification. The dems threw a fit and called it discrimination. Don't give me your BS.

[Lamar Mundane]

Originally Posted by bullrun

NO...they were NOT caught by ACORN.

Show us who caught them, then. Use facts, not insults - that's the way things work here.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by Chronos

hotflungwok, you forgot to mention Rush Limbaugh urging his listeners to commit vote fraud. Representing yourself as a member of a different party for purposes of sabotaging their primary is a crime in several states.

You are a liar. What he urged was completely legal in the states he urged it in. The demos were already doing it against the repubs.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane

Show us who caught them, then. Use facts, not insults - that's the way things work here.

I have seen the way things work here. If it is a leftist quote or allegatilon...everything is fine. ANy other points of view are scoffed at are acused of being wrong or lies. Get lost.

[bullrun]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Yeah, I've read that many times before. I've challenged Dopers to come up with cites for that many times in GD. It seems to be all smoke.

Relevant GD threads from the past few years, in reverse chronological order:

Get-out-the-vote and voter suppression are not equally legitimate political tactics

USA Tim Griffin/"caging lists" redux

"Voter fraud" think-tank mysteriously vanishes

Election Assistance Commission gags co-author of "Voter Fraud" report from speaking

Come on! Let's have some proof, already, that "false voters" really are a problem!

RFK Jr. files whistleblower suit against Diebold

How big a problem is "voting fraud" in the U.S.?

Senators Boxer and Clinton propose "Count Every Vote Act"

Can anyone name any defensible, legitimate value to "voter suppression"?

LOL...dopers. You accuse people of what you leftist are.

[Lamar Mundane]

Originally Posted by bullrun

I have seen the way things work here. If it is a leftist quote or allegatilon...everything is fine. ANy other points of view are scoffed at are acused of being wrong or lies. Get lost.

So that's a "no" then?

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by bullrun

LOL...dopers. You accuse people of what you leftist are.

I know you are but what am I? That's so... fourth grade.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by bullrun

NO...they were NOT caught by ACORN.

If someone fills out a registration card as "Mickey Mouse", ACORN is required by law to turn it in, with notation, which they did. No law broken.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by bullrun

Puhleeeeeze....Giles....ESAD.

I'll take that as a no.

I'll be honest, I thought about pitting you "bullrun". But, you ain't gonna last long enough to bother with.

Be sure and tell the guys at Stormfront how you stomped some liberal ass over here...

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by bullrun

YOu seem upset...libtard!

Originally Posted by bullrun

Come on ...libtard. We know and we can prove it. It has been proven before and lawsuits have been lauched and won over this issue. That is a favorite ploy of the libtard left. You put your hands on your hips and give your best gay pose and say..."do you have any sites to list about that?" Is seems that you never have sites to list unless they are from some communist left leaning blog.

Originally Posted by bullrun

Puhleeeeeze....Giles....ESAD.

Originally Posted by bullrun

You are a liar.

bullrun, we have one major rule here, and it's "Don't be a jerk." All of the above is rude, insulting and absolutely jerk-y. It's not allowed in any forum here except the BBQ Pit. (More specifically in Great Debates you are not allowed to call another poster a liar. If you continue to post like this your stay here will probably be very short.

Originally Posted by Registration Agreement

You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. We recognize that this rule cannot be strictly applied in discussions of war, capital punishment and the like but urge users to express themselves in moderate terms nonetheless. If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Fear Itself

If someone fills out a registration card as "Mickey Mouse", ACORN is required by law to turn it in, with notation, which they did. No law broken.

And, IIRC, in the case that made the news, it turned out the registrant in question actually was a person named Mickey Mouse.

[cosmosdan]

I was going to post but I see the OP has developed an immunity to facts and reason and just stopped by to hurl insults.

No need for Krescan here to see the future.

Yes, we do have those far left ideas of facts and reason. We even have smart conservatives who enjoy those things as well. If you manage to stick around you might learn something form them. I'm not holding my breath.

It would be interesting for you to post something like this in the pit so the glove were off for the left as well.

[ivan astikov]

I never got a convincing rebuttal when I started this thread a while back.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by ivan astikov

I never got a convincing rebuttal when I started this thread a while back.

You mean other than Shodan's cites in Post #7 or the fact that at the time of the alleged fraud, touch screens were not in use (nor planned for use) in the affected district?

I'm gonna regret this, but what kind of cite were you looking for? What WOULD you find convincing other than a complete vindication of your stance? Is there any evidence or cite you would accept that contradicts your view of the world?

[cosmosdan]

To warrant the expense and hours involved in an investigation there has to be some credible evidence of voter fraud.

Felons who were ineligible may have voted. OKay. That might indicate a review of that specific aspect of voting needs to be reviewed with reasonable questions like

Did they know they were ineligible and voted anyway?
Do we know if their voting was slanted toward a particular candidate?
Is there any evidence of party officials being involved, knowing about it and/or encouraging it in any way.

Without real credible evidence we are left with wild politically motivated speculation wuth does nothing except distract us from real serious issues.

the point being, that a convincing rebuttal is only nessecary when there is a convincing fact based argument presented.

[hotflungwok]

Originally Posted by bullrun

YOu seem upset...libtard!

You are a liar.

NO...they were NOT caught by ACORN.

Is this all you got? Insults and childish retorts? This is not an echo chamber. This is not your personal blog. If you wanna spew screed and watch all the bobble heads start nodding in agreement then back to the Freerepublic, Conservapedia, Fox News, or whatever other board you wandered away from. In here we expect a bit of evidence, logic or reason, and you've given us nothing.

Given the level of grammar and spelling you've displayed, your claim of being a teacher is suspect at best.

[Snnipe 70E]

This country is being set up for voter fraud.

In 1968 I was away going to college, so I applied for an absentee ballot. I had to have a good reason, I was going to school in Vallejo CA and registered in Montery county CA. It was good for that election only.

Now I am a perminate absentee voter, why long story but one election I was not allowed to vote before going to work. The State of Calif is trying to get everyone to sign up as an absentee voter. I believe this is a dangerous set up. Also when we have only electrronic voting someone will find a way to change the results, it will happen in the future. And this is not a right or left that is pushing it but both.

Several years ago I was voting when a man finished voting and asked to pick up his wife's ballot to take to her. Under absentee voting as now administered he can get her ballot mailed to their home.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

Given the level of grammar and spelling you've displayed, your claim of being a teacher is suspect at best.

Could be a phys.ed. teacher . . .

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by bullrun

Liberals have ruined education. They ruin anything they touch.

Something certainly ruined yours. You were obviously never taught about rational thought, backing up your arguments with facts, or engaging in actual debate.

And your English teachers need to be blamed for your atrocious writing skills.

Whether or not those incompetent teachers were liberal or conservative has not been proven.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by bullrun

Puhleeeeeze....Giles....ESAD.

Woo. You're not going to be here long if you can't prove a damned thing and keep acting a damned fool.

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by bullrun

NO...they were NOT caught by ACORN.

Many were flagged by ACORN. That is all they can do. They had no police power, they had no authority to reject applications. That was the election commissions place. I pity the poor children who you will propagandize.

[Really Not All That Bright]

ACORN is so evil it can steal elections when it doesn't even exist? Glad I'm on their side.

[gonzomax]

BULLRUN should get a new hobby. Voter fraud is very rare in the US.
Perhaps he does not know that ACORN is defunct due to right wing lies. All they did was register voters. By the way, 2 people in America are named Mickey Mouse. i suppose they should not be allowed to vote.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

BULLRUN should get a new hobby. Voter fraud is very rare in the US.
Perhaps he does not know that ACORN is defunct due to right wing lies. All they did was register voters. By the way, 2 people in America are named Mickey Mouse. i suppose they should not be allowed to vote.

Do you have some kind of proof for that? I'd assume that voter fraud is pretty sparse as well, but I don't know one way or another. There is that "Vote early, vote often" saying that pops up in Chicago politics, though.

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Do you have some kind of proof for that? I'd assume that voter fraud is pretty sparse as well, but I don't know one way or another. There is that "Vote early, vote often" saying that pops up in Chicago politics, though.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200810140013 Actually 2 in Florida ,32 across the nation named Mickey Mouse.

[Saint Cad]

Originally Posted by bullrun

Also....in 2007 the republicans tried to pass a law that simply said that everyone who is to vote must....must...show legitimate Identification. The dems threw a fit and called it discrimination. Don't give me your BS.

One time in California, I walked ito the polling booth only to find I had already voted.

And I never had to show ID to vote in Cali.

[Markxxx]

Even if you accept all (or most) of the OP arguments, the one fact is this:

Not enough people in the USA vote.

So what does this mean? It means the government wants to make it EASY not hard to register to vote.

And this does allow for abuse. But as long as the government wants to make it EASY not hard to register this will continue.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Markxxx

Even if you accept all (or most) of the OP arguments, the one fact is this:

Not enough people in the USA vote.

So what does this mean? It means the government wants to make it EASY not hard to register to vote.

And this does allow for abuse. But as long as the government wants to make it EASY not hard to register this will continue.

Well, not necessarily. From a civics viewpoint, certainly, high voter turnout is always better than low voter turnout, in and of itself. However: "The government" as such has no interest in high voter turnout as such. A low-turnout election still gets officials elected, after all. By "the government" you mean the elected officials sitting at any given time -- any one of whom might gain or might lose by higher turnout in the next election. Generally, Dems want high turnout and Pubs want low turnout, but that can vary with local or temporal conditions.

[RealityChuck]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

Do you have some kind of proof for that? I'd assume that voter fraud is pretty sparse as well, but I don't know one way or another. There is that "Vote early, vote often" saying that pops up in Chicago politics, though.

The number of cases that have gone to court, let alone result in convictions, is ridiculously small. From 2002 to 2005, the Bush Justice Department made enforcing laws against voter fraud a top priority. It resulted in a total of 38 cases, 14 of which were either dismissed or found not guilty. That's 24 cases in three years, when the Justice Department was going out of its way to prosecute. Not exactly a crime wave.

Of the 38, the Justice Department found only two cases where the fraud occurred during a minority registration drive, their main target.

[descamisado]

It's an epidemic!

[Bryan Ekers]

And Madagascar voted to close the ports!

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

The number of cases that have gone to court, let alone result in convictions, is ridiculously small. From 2002 to 2005, the Bush Justice Department made enforcing laws against voter fraud a top priority. It resulted in a total of 38 cases, 14 of which were either dismissed or found not guilty. That's 24 cases in three years, when the Justice Department was going out of its way to prosecute. Not exactly a crime wave.

Of the 38, the Justice Department found only two cases where the fraud occurred during a minority registration drive, their main target.

Good to know.

[Squink]

Wisconsin Progressive Group Alleges Joint GOP And Tea Party Voter Fraud Conspiracy

A coordinated plot by the Republican Party of Wisconsin, Americans for Prosperity-Wisconsin and organizations in the so-called Tea Party movement targeting minority voters and college students in a possibly illegal “voter caging” effort for voter suppression has been uncovered in evidence obtained by One Wisconsin Now, a statewide advocacy organization in Madison, Wisconsin.

“Based on what we have heard, the Republican Party of Wisconsin, the Americans for Prosperity-Wisconsin and leading Tea Party organizations are in collusion in an effort to suppress the ability of minorities and university students in Wisconsin to exercise their right to vote this November,” said Scot Ross, One Wisconsin Now Executive Director. “We will be providing all of the evidence we have received on this wrongdoing to federal and state authorities so that they can investigate to ensure justice and democracy prevail.”

[Bryan Ekers]

Well, we should distinguish between cases of imaginary voters who cast ballots and real voters who are blocked from casting ballots.

I suspect the latter cases are far more widespread and represent a more serious problem/failing of democracy.