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  #1  
Old 08-11-2010, 04:26 PM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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"Adam and Eve were 15 feet tall" - Origin of this belief?

I attend (but do not believe) a conservative, fundamentalist "Church of Christ" congregation in Nashville, Tennessee. Recently, I have overheard some conversations amongst the young folk (teenagers) -- evidently, one of their Sunday School teachers was saying that "Adam and Eve were fifteen feet tall", and that people have degenerated towards the modern height after the Fall/Flood/whatever.

I have also overheard people talking about this belief in a restaurant (my local Hooters restaurant) a few weeks ago. They were talking about the whole "There were giants on the earth" quote from Genesis, and that people really "downsized" due to sin, dislocation from God, unhealthy diet, breeding with pre-Adamic humanoids, etc.

Okay, now I understand the "Giants in the Earth" phenomenon to some extent. I figure that it is a result of pre-scientific people coming across dinosaur or, more likely, prehistoric elephant/mammoth bones, and mistakenly assuming them to be from gigantic humans.

The "fifteen feet tall Adam and Eve" thing has me stumped, however. I am fairly certain that the Bible does not explicitly state that these original humans were that much bigger than people are nowadays. I may be wrong about this, however.

Has anyone else encountered this odd belief? Do you know its origins? Any information would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2010, 04:55 PM
Fake Tales of San Francisco Fake Tales of San Francisco is offline
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There is a belief amongst certain young earth creationists that Adam and Eve were physically perfect. I think I remember Benny Hinn once saying that Adam could fly to the moon.
I think this is because of the whole inbreeding issue, and genetic problems that may result of having billions of people descended from only two people. They claim that we have been degrading slowly, since the 'fall of man' (sin brought imperfection).
Then there is the Nephilim, who were apparently giants, but some say they didn't survive the flood.

A quick google search will land you with articles like this.

I don't really know when or where it started though! Remember that the ages given for the early humans in the Bible number in their hundreds. That's one of the biblical reasons why it was thought that the first people were physically superior.

I own a 'timeline of Biblical history', which I purchased from the British Museum, that includes a diagram of Noah's ark that has space for Unicorns. It was apparently drawn by a 17th century Jesuit called Kircher. They seemed to believe all sort of things back then, and apparently still do!
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:42 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by gytalf2000 View Post
I have also overheard people talking about this belief in a restaurant (my local Hooters restaurant) a few weeks ago. They were talking about the whole "There were giants on the earth" quote from Genesis, and that people really "downsized" due to sin, dislocation from God, unhealthy diet, breeding with pre-Adamic humanoids, etc.
If they were at a Hooters restaurant, it's possible that their entire conception of what sizes things are supposed to be was hopelessly skewed.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:48 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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One of the sequels to A Wrinkle in Time has it the other way around--humans were a lot shorter, and the Nephilim were normal sized.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:21 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Good Lord!

I am a conservative Christian and I've never heard of this idea.

They were just people, I've always assumed. Regular people.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:23 PM
dangermom dangermom is offline
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That's a new one to me. I think I can state pretty confidently that the Bible does not say anything about the size of Adam and Eve.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:24 PM
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One of the sequels to A Wrinkle in Time has it the other way around--humans were a lot shorter, and the Nephilim were normal sized.
Many Waters. It was always my favorite after Wrinkle.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:26 PM
digs digs is offline
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Good Lord!

I am a conservative Christian and I've never heard of this idea.

They were just people, I've always assumed. Regular people.
Good Lord!

I am a conservative Christian and I would laugh with derision in the faces of anyone who postulated this.

Or, I might just bite my tongue and come laugh at them here...
  #9  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:35 AM
El Presidente El Presidente is offline
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Just taking the Giants theory and all the 900 and 800 year old men as described in the Bible at face value, (and setting reality aside for most of us) is it scientifically possible that had God just created them with normal genetic characteristics that could evolve with each reproduction, Adam and Eve and Cain and Able could have started the human race by interbreeding, and for that reason, people became smaller, more psychologically flawed, and had shorter lifespans with each generation?
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:42 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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Just taking the Giants theory and all the 900 and 800 year old men as described in the Bible at face value, (and setting reality aside for most of us) is it scientifically possible that had God just created them with normal genetic characteristics that could evolve with each reproduction, Adam and Eve and Cain and Able could have started the human race by interbreeding, and for that reason, people became smaller, more psychologically flawed, and had shorter lifespans with each generation?
Well, did it happen to the various domesticated animals we've bred for centuries? I don't think it did except in the cases where they were aiming for smaller animals and selectively bred small parents together.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:57 AM
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I'd never heard it before. Perhaps someone took a look at a very old representation of the Garden of Eden, with figures drawn at different sizes to show their relative importance, and thought "gee, if that lion is normal sized, Adam and Eve are enormous!" Then they promptly forgot the "if".
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:51 AM
DanBlather DanBlather is offline
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What a weird belief. Everything else about the Bible is so rational.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:08 AM
Alka Seltzer Alka Seltzer is offline
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They needed to be 15 ft tall to beat up dinosaurs of course.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:37 AM
si_blakely si_blakely is offline
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Well, according to Islam Adam was 90ft tall (60 Cubits).

There is nothing in the Bible about how tall Adam was. Some Jewish traditions (outside of the Torah) talk about Adam being extremely tall (the same size as God, maybe), but these traditions also talk of Adam being married to Lilith before Eve, and do not form part of mainstream Judaism or Christianity.

It's out on the fundamentalist spectrum, and stems from a "perfect creation" theology - Adam and Eve were created perfect and long-lived, and since the fall humanity has been diminishing in stature and life expectancy until we are what we are now.

And don't get me started on the subject of nephilim and alien abduction

Si
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:38 AM
psychonaut psychonaut is offline
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There is nothing in the Bible about how tall Adam was. Some Jewish traditions (outside of the Torah) talk about Adam being extremely tall (the same size as God, maybe)
And according to these sources, how tall is God supposed to be?
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:44 AM
Harmonious Discord Harmonious Discord is offline
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You need to ask the person informing the kids their source for this. They may have some reasoning behind this, or they may have no reason other than everybody knows that. It's best to confront the actual person teaching this since you know who they are.
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:12 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
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I attend (but do not believe) a conservative, fundamentalist "Church of Christ" congregation
I bet there's a story there!

(To prevent any confusion, the "Church of Christ" should not be confused with the "United Church of Christ," which is one of the more liberal denominations.)
  #18  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:26 AM
Lanzy Lanzy is offline
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But in movies they seem perfectly normal.
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:32 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Just taking the Giants theory and all the 900 and 800 year old men as described in the Bible at face value, (and setting reality aside for most of us) is it scientifically possible that had God just created them with normal genetic characteristics that could evolve with each reproduction, Adam and Eve and Cain and Able could have started the human race by interbreeding, and for that reason, people became smaller, more psychologically flawed, and had shorter lifespans with each generation?
How do you think these people feel about evolution?

There is such a thing as insular dwarfism or island dwarfism. Given an isolated population and scarce resources, a species may get smaller over time. Inbreeding is part of the reason for that. You're talking about this happening to the whole human race, though, as it spread out around the world. And while smaller animals tend to have shorter lifespans I don't think it's associated with shorter lifespans in any way. And psychology wouldn't enter into it either except to the extent that those traits were inheritable.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:10 AM
UncleFred UncleFred is offline
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... breeding with pre-Adamic humanoids, etc....
Has anyone else heard of that idea? How would the existence of "pre-Adamic humanoids" fit into the creationist position?

I don't doubt someone could concoct a 'fit' but I've just never heard of it. The "Christian Churches of God" (http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p143.html) seem to take it as 'proven' but I can't follow the logic.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:15 AM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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I have also overheard people talking about this belief in a restaurant (my local Hooters restaurant) a few weeks ago. They were talking about the whole "There were giants on the earth" quote from Genesis, and that people really "downsized" due to sin, dislocation from God, unhealthy diet, breeding with pre-Adamic humanoids, etc.
If they were at a Hooters restaurant, it's possible that their entire conception of what sizes things are supposed to be was hopelessly skewed.


Funny!

Actually, not all the waitresses are the "Double D-Cup" type, but I am aware that is the stereotype. Nevertheless, you did make me snicker a bit with that comment...
  #22  
Old 08-12-2010, 08:17 AM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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There is nothing in the Bible about how tall Adam was. Some Jewish traditions (outside of the Torah) talk about Adam being extremely tall (the same size as God, maybe)
And according to these sources, how tall is God supposed to be?


Well, according to Oral Roberts, Jesus is 900 feet tall.
  #23  
Old 08-12-2010, 08:34 AM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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... breeding with pre-Adamic humanoids, etc....
Has anyone else heard of that idea? How would the existence of "pre-Adamic humanoids" fit into the creationist position?

I don't doubt someone could concoct a 'fit' but I've just never heard of it. The "Christian Churches of God" (http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p143.html) seem to take it as 'proven' but I can't follow the logic.


Some people use that phrase, or something like it, to explain fossil hominids.
If you really, really don't want to believe in all the evidence for evolution, you will concoct other theories to explain away australopithecines, homo erectus, etc.
They just happened to be animals that God created that looked a little bit like us.

The other alternative is just pretending the bones aren't there, or that they were all planted by Satan in order to fool people into believing that evolution happened.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:40 AM
digs digs is offline
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You need to ask the person informing the kids their source for this. They may have some reasoning behind this, or they may have no reason other than everybody knows that. It's best to confront the actual person teaching this since you know who they are.
Won't SOMEBODY think of the children?

What ELSE are they being fed?

My "little Fundie church" actually fired a pastor for counseling people with "your psychological problems are Satan's fault." instead of pointing them to Serious Therapy With Real Psychologists.

And I was involved in asking a Sunday School teacher to "retire early", due to her propensity for numerology (!) and general Tin Foil Hat-ness. She wanted to spend one Sunday on "Why we never went to the Moon"!

Look, gytalf, you said you'd "overheard some conversations amongst the young folk (teenagers)" -- what were their attitudes? Were they healthy skeptics, raising their eyebrows? Or little robots accepting it as truth?

BTW, you need to watch out for your own soul. Anyone who starts calling kids "young folk" is in just as much danger as they are of being Assimilated. If you start saying "fellowshipping" when you really mean "just talking", if you're calling acquaintances "brother", OR, if you ask someone about their "walk with the Lord", let us know, and we'll pray for you.

Last edited by digs; 08-12-2010 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: just wondering if we need a support group for Born-Again Dopers...
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:08 AM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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You need to ask the person informing the kids their source for this. They may have some reasoning behind this, or they may have no reason other than everybody knows that. It's best to confront the actual person teaching this since you know who they are.
Won't SOMEBODY think of the children?

What ELSE are they being fed?

My "little Fundie church" actually fired a pastor for counseling people with "your psychological problems are Satan's fault." instead of pointing them to Serious Therapy With Real Psychologists.

And I was involved in asking a Sunday School teacher to "retire early", due to her propensity for numerology (!) and general Tin Foil Hat-ness. She wanted to spend one Sunday on "Why we never went to the Moon"!

Look, gytalf, you said you'd "overheard some conversations amongst the young folk (teenagers)" -- what were their attitudes? Were they healthy skeptics, raising their eyebrows? Or little robots accepting it as truth?

BTW, you need to watch out for your own soul. Anyone who starts calling kids "young folk" is in just as much danger as they are of being Assimilated. If you start saying "fellowshipping" when you really mean "just talking", if you're calling acquaintances "brother", OR, if you ask someone about their "walk with the Lord", let us know, and we'll pray for you.


Okay, some further info about my situation:

I am not really "involved" in the Church at all, other than showing up on Sunday morning, because I like to sing hymns, and then, after the service, I will sometimes go to lunch with my sister and her family. She is fairly devout; I am not, and she knows it. We still enjoy each other's company, despite intellectual differences.

The congregation has about 1800 members. I did not know the teens who were talking about the fifteen-foot-tall Adam and Eve, (I am going with the "little robots" terminology for now, since I could discern no mocking or derisive tone to their voices) so I have no idea who was promoting the idea. If I had known, I definitely would have gone straight to that person.


And thanks for warning me about the term "young folk". I will strive mightily to not use the phrase again, in my walk with the Lord, my dear, Christian brother. Will you please pray for me, in my hour of need? Now I truly fear for my (semi-) precious soul...

Oh dear! The Assimilation... It Burns! Aaarrrggghhh!
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:55 AM
DanBlather DanBlather is offline
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You need to ask the person informing the kids their source for this. They may have some reasoning behind this...
Unlikely
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Shmendrik Shmendrik is offline
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There's a midrash (Jewish tradition not found in the bible) that Moses was 15 feet tall, and some Ultra-Orthodox Jews take that literally.

The Jewish tradition of Adam's great height can be found in this talmudic passage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanhedrin 38b
Rab Judah said in Rab's name: The first man reached from one end of the world to the other, as it is written, Since the day that God created man upon the earth, even from the one end of Heaven unto the other. But when he sinned, the Holy One, blessed be He, laid His hand upon him and diminished him, as it is written, Thou hast hemmed me in behind and before, and laid Thy hands upon me. R. Eleazer said: The first man reached from earth to heaven, as it is written, Since the day that God created man upon the earth, and from the one end of Heaven [the other]. But when he sinned, the Holy One, blessed be He, laid His hand upon him and diminished him, for it is written, Thou hast hemmed me in behind and before etc.
Then there's this midrashic statement about what his height was after God "diminished" him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by B'reshith Rabbah 12:6
Said R. Aibu, "He was cut down in height and reduced to one hundred cubits."
I don't know of anyone who bothers interpreting that literally.

Last edited by Shmendrik; 08-12-2010 at 11:25 AM..
  #28  
Old 08-12-2010, 11:47 AM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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There's a midrash (Jewish tradition not found in the bible) that Moses was 15 feet tall, and some Ultra-Orthodox Jews take that literally.

The Jewish tradition of Adam's great height can be found in this talmudic passage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanhedrin 38b
Rab Judah said in Rab's name: The first man reached from one end of the world to the other, as it is written, Since the day that God created man upon the earth, even from the one end of Heaven unto the other. But when he sinned, the Holy One, blessed be He, laid His hand upon him and diminished him, as it is written, Thou hast hemmed me in behind and before, and laid Thy hands upon me. R. Eleazer said: The first man reached from earth to heaven, as it is written, Since the day that God created man upon the earth, and from the one end of Heaven [the other]. But when he sinned, the Holy One, blessed be He, laid His hand upon him and diminished him, for it is written, Thou hast hemmed me in behind and before etc.
Then there's this midrashic statement about what his height was after God "diminished" him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by B'reshith Rabbah 12:6
Said R. Aibu, "He was cut down in height and reduced to one hundred cubits."
I don't know of anyone who bothers interpreting that literally.


Interesting! I had no idea about this.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:27 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Then there's this midrashic statement about what his height was after God "diminished" him:
Quote:
Originally Posted by B'reshith Rabbah 12:6
Said R. Aibu, "He was cut down in height and reduced to one hundred cubits."
I don't know of anyone who bothers interpreting that literally.
100 cubits would make him four and a half meters tall, or 150 feet. Looks like someone forgot to carry the 1.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:55 PM
california jobcase california jobcase is offline
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Looks like someone forgot a decimal point-
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Actually, I added one. 45 meters, not 4.5.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Shmendrik Shmendrik is offline
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Then there's this midrashic statement about what his height was after God "diminished" him:


I don't know of anyone who bothers interpreting that literally.
100 cubits would make him four and a half meters tall, or 150 feet. Looks like someone forgot to carry the 1.
Am I being whooshed? How is 150 feet = 4.5 metres?
  #33  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:12 PM
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I have heard of this, but I have no idea what the basis is. It seems to stem from the "Adam and Eve were created perfect and mankind has degenerated since" school of thought, with a helping of "statures decreased similarly to lifespans" on the side (this last bit is just my thought, though).

I was raised in a fundamentalist protestant church (Seventh Day Adventist, to be precise), and this wouldn't be commented on as out of place in their service. They have a number of other interesting views on religion, it must be said.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:12 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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100 cubits would make him four and a half meters tall, or 150 feet. Looks like someone forgot to carry the 1.
Am I being whooshed? How is 150 feet = 4.5 metres?
Inflation?
  #35  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:49 PM
Harmonious Discord Harmonious Discord is offline
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You need to ask the person informing the kids their source for this. They may have some reasoning behind this...
Unlikely
Don't cut my sentence in half in the quote. Do you design campaign ads?

Quote:
They may have some reasoning behind this, or they may have no reason other than everybody knows that.
  #36  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:00 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Giants came from..... Fallen Angels taking human wives

6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Last edited by aceplace57; 08-12-2010 at 02:01 PM..
  #37  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:26 PM
Drunky Smurf Drunky Smurf is offline
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Giants came from..... Fallen Angels taking human wives

6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Adam and Eve were made from dirt by God not from angels and people having "relations". So people really are dirtbags.

EDIT: I had not heard of the 15ft. thing before this thread.

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 08-12-2010 at 02:27 PM..
  #38  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:48 PM
digs digs is offline
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Won't SOMEBODY think of the children?

What ELSE are they being fed?

My "little Fundie church" actually fired a pastor for counseling people with "your psychological problems are Satan's fault." instead of pointing them to Serious Therapy With Real Psychologists.

And I was involved in asking a Sunday School teacher to "retire early", due to her propensity for numerology (!) and general Tin Foil Hat-ness. She wanted to spend one Sunday on "Why we never went to the Moon"!

Look, gytalf, you said you'd "overheard some conversations amongst the young folk (teenagers)" -- what were their attitudes? Were they healthy skeptics, raising their eyebrows? Or little robots accepting it as truth?

BTW, you need to watch out for your own soul. Anyone who starts calling kids "young folk" is in just as much danger as they are of being Assimilated. If you start saying "fellowshipping" when you really mean "just talking", if you're calling acquaintances "brother", OR, if you ask someone about their "walk with the Lord", let us know, and we'll pray for you.


Okay, some further info about my situation:

I am not really "involved" in the Church at all, other than showing up on Sunday morning, because I like to sing hymns, and then, after the service, I will sometimes go to lunch with my sister and her family. She is fairly devout; I am not, and she knows it. We still enjoy each other's company, despite intellectual differences.

The congregation has about 1800 members. I did not know the teens who were talking about the fifteen-foot-tall Adam and Eve, (I am going with the "little robots" terminology for now, since I could discern no mocking or derisive tone to their voices) so I have no idea who was promoting the idea. If I had known, I definitely would have gone straight to that person.


And thanks for warning me about the term "young folk". I will strive mightily to not use the phrase again, in my walk with the Lord, my dear, Christian brother. Will you please pray for me, in my hour of need? Now I truly fear for my (semi-) precious soul...

Oh dear! The Assimilation... It Burns! Aaarrrggghhh!
My take is that not being "in" the church absolves you from a lot of guilt over the whacko things that the church teaches. Once you told us of your "guest" status, I changed to thinking you don't have to confront anyone if you don't want to. Maybe your sister would want to talk to the teacher, who presumably she knows. Now, there is a slim chance she'll turn on you: "You pagan!!! Eve was 16' tall--taller than that 15' wimp Adam!"

And don't worry. As far as assimilation goes, you've got a long way to go before you start "walking the walk!" or "naming it and claiming it!" When you start "rightly dividing the word of truth", come back for a de-programming.
  #39  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:15 AM
shauny boy shauny boy is offline
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hey hey

In Genesies it says And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Basically there was water below earth. now the ocean and water above earth wich is the sky. water was frozen above the earth. still ice is found in space. So having ice surrounding earth. Gave earth better oxygen as you know oxygen sealed rooms help with many diseses. Practiced all over the world. Ice helped prevent the rays from the sun hitting the earth not all but most. We all know the damage the sun ray does to us. God made Adam in his image so he was perfect in every way so Im sure he wasnt some average dude he had size on him. When the flood came all the water from beneath came up and the water above came down. Opening the sky to the sun. and we were cursed that man would not live long. So thru time we have been getting smaller and dying earlier, but because of modern medicine we can live little longer. Wich also disproves evolution lol. What what lol. Bible also talks about Giants. What ever the bible says I believe.
  #40  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:45 AM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Moderator Note

shauny boy, General Questions is for factual answers. If you want to discuss your religious beliefs, Great Debates is the most appropriate forum. Since this is an old thread that has been raised without providing new factual information, I'm going to close it.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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