I just found these on YouTube.
Pilot from 1968, called “Justice For All” to reflect Archie Bunker was originally named Archie Justice
The 1969 pilot called “Those Were The Days” featuring Chip Oliver (From the Oakland Raiders) in the “Mike” role (called Richard or ‘Dickie’) here.
The pilots are pretty much the exact same script as aired but the Gloria and Mike characters as well as Lionel character are played by different people.
What do you think?
I saw parts of these somewhere, I can’t remember, and I can’t watch them now. (Though I will, thank you!) I do remember that Mike (or Richard) was supposed to be Irish at first, not Polish.
A masterpiece of television All in the Family.
Amazing how much younger and slimmer Carroll O’Connor and Jean Stapleton looked just 2 years before shooting the real series.
I remember reading that Sally Struthers eventually won the part of Gloria because she tested well with Carroll O’Connor and they played better as father and daughter than any of the other actresses. However, that’s something that wouldn’t be seen in the pilot (nor for many episodes afterward.)
I’ve read that Jackie Gleason and Mickey Rooney were considered for the role of Archie. Gleason was too expensive and not that interested- not sure why Rooney was reconsidered. I didn’t realize they’d chosen Carroll O’Connor that early.
Penny Marshall actually met Rob Reiner when she was auditioning for Gloria. They moved in together within a couple of weeks and married a few months later.
I adore All In The Family. When I went to the Smithsonian a few years ago, my favorite display was Archie’s & Edith’s chairs. I made my husband take my picture with them, and I completely embarrassed him with all my fan-gurling over those damn chairs.
Anyhoo, I really like how Edith evolved from being rather deadpan in her delivery to being the full-blown Queens dingbat we know and love.
We say “disappernted” for disappointed, “verses” for voices, and “sperled” for spoiled quite often in our house. Which is particularly funny when contrasted with our coastal Georgia accents.
According to Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_in_the_family#Main_characters, Rooney was the first choice to play Archie Bunker, but turned it down because of potential controversy and what he felt was a poor chance for success. If it failed, he didn’t want to be remembered for playing an unlikeable bigot.
The first pilot in 1968 was toned down a lot. Like Richard (as Mike was then called) and Archie in a face off over the table. And Lionel was played really racist. The 1969 and the one that actually aired, by then Lionel was sacrcastic, he played the black guy with dignity.
I think Rob Reiner grasped the part where Mike goes off on political tangets better than the other two. None of the Glorias matched Sally Struthers.
Funny on the original two pilots Edith and Archie didn’t have much chemistry together. That came quickly though.
Oh, thanks! I often think of Harlan Ellison’s complaint that Justice For All would never see the light of day, in The Glass Teat.
Will be glad to see for myself if the unadulterated Archie Justice is better or worse than the softer, gentler Archie that we finally got (in part due to interest resulting from Ellison’s column.)
Okay, I watched the 1969 one, and I have to say, the two younger actors are totally wrong for the roles. They belong on My Three Sons or something else of the era. Struthers and Reiner had real intensity, especially compared to other sitcom actors of the era. O’Connor and Stapleton are about the same though (which is good).
That is too funny. I often say to my brother, “I gotta go to woik in the morning”.
mmm
I can’t even look at a can of cling peaches (in heavy seeer-up) without getting the giggles.
I agree the pilot Mike & Gloria do not work and have zero chemistry. Sally S really kinda looks like Carroll O’Connor.
Another thing about these early episodes, is that Archie and Edith are supposed to be in their late 40s - early 50s when the show started, and man… 48 sure doesn’t look that old anymore. I always thought the characters looked older than what they were supposedly supposed to be. My husband and I are in our late 40s, and we don’t look that old.
I also like how the creators made it clear that the Bunker house had not changed one iota since the day Archie & Edith moved into it. It appeared to have no updating since the 40s, and the Jefferson house next door had been modernized somewhat (at least by 70s standards).
However, it annoyed me that the set for the Bunker house had a porch and the real house in the opening and closing credits did not.
You know you’re exactly right. I was thinking this but didn’t know how to express it. In both pilots the Dickie (Mike) character, was too good looking.
It seemed both of the ladies that played Gloria in each of the pilots tried to give the role a more ethnic “new york” type of accent.
It was also a bit odd in the second pilot Dickie (Mike) calls Archie, “pop.” In the final version Mike calls Archie “Arch” or “Archie” while calling Edith, “Ma.”
I’d be very surprised if any of the 2010 pilots for sitcoms were near as “for mature audiences” in their content: arguments about race/affirmative action and the existence of God with both characters having good and bad qualities wouldn’t happen.
Also, Gloria in both pilots called her husband Richard “Dickie.” Sally Struthers always called Mike by his full name, Michael, in the final version. Even Archie and Edith called him Mike. Gloria never did to my recollection.
In a strange coincidence the actors who played both Richard and Lionel from the 1968 pilot died young of heart attacks in the 1980s.
Even in the actual series the character of Edith changed a lot in the first season. In some of the early episodes she wears pants and pantsuits (which later she never did) and could be very sharp tongued and bitter, a bit more like Golde from Fiddler on the Roof than Edith Bunker as she’s remembered. Anyone know if Else Garnett was like that?
I haven’t seen any of the series Till Death Us Do Part but I did see the theatrically released movie that tracks the family through World War II to the late 1960s (present day when filmed). She seemed a bit dense and low personality in that, and they have such a limited sex life both are at a complete loss to remember when their daughter was conceived before casually remembering “Oh yeah… it was during that Luftwaffe raid when we didn’t have any other way to pass the time…”. What I thought was funny was that one of All in the Family’s controversies was that you heard a toilet flush (I think for the first time on a U.S. TV show, may be wrong) while the first scene of the Till Death Us Do Part movie has Alf Garnett (the Archie character) sitting on a toilet reading the newspaper and talking to a backwall neighbor he can hear through the vents.
I have seen a lot of episodes of “Till Death Do Us Part” and I found it very sharp and mean spirited. I even started a thread about it here.
Even when Mike and Archie fought, you always felt on some level there was some love and affection. Even though on the surface, Archie put up with Mike for the sake of his daughter and Mike put up with Archie for the sake of this wife, you always felt Archie and Mike like to fight with each other and each hoped the other would change over. Which did happen, Archie grew more liberal and Mike grew more conservative.
But with “Till Death…” it seemed very mean but maybe I didn’t see enough episodes.
I’ve seen two “Till Death” episodes, and although they may not be representative, I didn’t like them much. They were basically Alf monologues, with occasional input from Else; the daughter and SIL didn’t engage him at all. Which just feels flat, because I like the back-and-forth between all four characters. And I agree with you about Mike vs. Archie. I think Mike was supposed to have lost his father early? Sure comes off that way.