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  #1  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:43 PM
Shakes Shakes is offline
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How common is climax during rape?

I was surprised to learn that this actually happens. Which I can only imagine, makes it THAT much more emotionally damaging to the victim.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:51 PM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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A woman's orgasms are more mental than physiological. The incidence of female orgasm during voluntary penis-in-vagina intercourse is less than 30% according to Doctor Drew (no cite here, I'm at work and interesting sites are blocked). Most women do not have orgasms just from penetration, even when they want to be having sex. I don't have a statistic but I assume the incidence of female orgasm during penetrative rape is extremely low.

As far as the incidence of male orgasm while being raped by a female who puts his penis into her vagina, THAT might be higher since male orgasms are more physiological, and this type of rape is only possible when the penis is hard. And the penis can become hard from stroking, even if the male fervently does not want the sex to happen.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:56 PM
KellyCriterion KellyCriterion is offline
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I got the impression from the OP that they were more interested in male climax when a man is raping a woman.

Could be wrong though.
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:07 PM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Most incidences of male rape of females end with the male climaxing. Why would he be asking about the rarity of something that happens all the time?

Not to be rude, but climax is one of the main points of rape. A guy isn't going to start raping a woman, then stop without orgasming... what would be the point?

Last edited by Rachellelogram; 01-14-2011 at 10:10 PM..
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:09 PM
Shakes Shakes is offline
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
I got the impression from the OP that they were more interested in male climax when a man is raping a woman.

Could be wrong though.
No I meant the woman.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:49 PM
Apollon Apollon is offline
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Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
Most incidences of male rape of females end with the male climaxing. Why would he be asking about the rarity of something that happens all the time?

Not to be rude, but climax is one of the main points of rape. A guy isn't going to start raping a woman, then stop without orgasming... what would be the point?
Actually, I always hear is that the exact opposite is the case, but I can't find any cite to support either the one nor the other.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:55 PM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Originally Posted by Apollon View Post
Actually, I always hear is that the exact opposite is the case, but I can't find any cite to support either the one nor the other.
It's not a study that can be ethically set up. And a rapist is not going to be a reliable self-reporter. I don't have a citation either, so I'm willing to step back on my assertion. But it seems like common sense that male rapes of females would usually end with the rapist orgasming.

I do wonder why you (or anyone) would have the impression that a male would not typically orgasm while raping a woman?
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:10 PM
ramel ramel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
Most incidences of male rape of females end with the male climaxing. Why would he be asking about the rarity of something that happens all the time?

Not to be rude, but climax is one of the main points of rape. A guy isn't going to start raping a woman, then stop without orgasming... what would be the point?
I've heard that rape often isn't about sex, but about power. And that it's not that rare for the rapist to have trouble maintaining or getting an erection.
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Crazyhorse Crazyhorse is offline
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In those cases where it could be known that the victim climaxed, whatever the frequency, it would certainly be a revelation that came possibly even years later during therapy or somesuch and not as a part of the initial crime report if one was ever even filed. So it would probably be very difficult or impossible to even estimate a percentage. It is safe to say it is relatively low but does happen. It is also safe to say out of those who have been studied they did report that it increased their confusion, emotional damage, and sense of blaming themselves for the crime. (this was gleaned by Googling "study frequency of climax during rape" and navigating to a few book results which generally wound up leading to cites from the Kinsey Institute).

It is worth noting that both men and women can orgasm when receiving severe physical or emotional trauma completely unrelated to sexual activity (e.g. being decapitated or hung, car accidents, spinal injuries, etc have resulted in orgasm). Some rapes can be so violent and traumatic they could be likened to this level of intense physiological overload response.

Some minority of women also entertain rape fantasies. Some to the point they role play these fantasies with their consenting partners. If you assume a small minority of women have strong and frequently exercised rape fantasies and achieve orgasms with their consenting partners while role playing them, it isn't a huge stretch to speculate that if confronted with the actual act some of them might involuntarily orgasm. Even if they are terrified, hurt and completely disgusted by the reality of the situation vs. the fantasy, if those elements have been the basis of a deep-seated sexual fantasy it could happen. Obviously those who fantasize about rape generally fantasize about a much less violent, must less terrifying experience and with someone they are physically attracted to. Women who frequently fantasize also show higher rates of orgasm during masturbation and intercourse in general (Arndt, Foehl, & Good, 1985; Leitenberg & Henning, 1995). Many women report that sexual fantasies help them achieve orgasm and increase sexual arousal (Davidson & Hoffman, 1986; Hariton & Singer, 1974; Sue, 1979). Evidence also shows that some women are able to use fantasies to reach orgasm without any type of physical stimulation (Kinsey, Pomeroy, Martin & Gebhard, 1953; Mah & Binik, 2001; Whipple, Ogden, & Komisaruk, 1992). Recent studies have found the same physiological response during orgasm induced by self induced imagery (fantasies) and genital self stimulation (Stock & Geer, 1982; Whipple, et al., 1992).
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:48 PM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramel View Post
I've heard that rape often isn't about sex, but about power.
I wish we had a sticky about this topic.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:02 AM
needscoffee needscoffee is offline
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nvm

Last edited by needscoffee; 01-15-2011 at 12:03 AM..
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2011, 01:09 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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It matters as much as the reaction of the knee joint to the rubber hammer. Rape is not about physiologiical reactions, it is about the enduring emotional results.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:16 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
It's not a study that can be ethically set up. And a rapist is not going to be a reliable self-reporter. I don't have a citation either, so I'm willing to step back on my assertion. But it seems like common sense that male rapes of females would usually end with the rapist orgasming.

I do wonder why you (or anyone) would have the impression that a male would not typically orgasm while raping a woman?
No cite other than a criminal behavior class I took in college but one of the guest lecturers pointed out to us that she was amazed how often, during rape cases, they don't find any semen in the victim even though there were other signs of penetration.
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:59 AM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
It's not a study that can be ethically set up. And a rapist is not going to be a reliable self-reporter..
Rape kits are taken. Victims can report what they experience. There are factual, measurable answers to these questions, so you can really feel free to stop acting as if there's nothing to go on but your common sense.
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:09 AM
WhyNot WhyNot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief View Post
Rape kits are taken. Victims can report what they experience. There are factual, measurable answers to these questions, so you can really feel free to stop acting as if there's nothing to go on but your common sense.
Rape kits can detect if the male ejaculated, some of the time. If he wore a condom, it won't. If he performed multiple penetrative rapes and there's some semen, you can't tell if he ejaculated every time. Since orgasm and ejaculation in men is correlated, not identical, you can't tell if he orgasmed or not for sure (although it's very likely that if there is semen, he probably orgasmed at least once.)

It can tell you nothing about whether a female orgasmed. And I strongly, very strongly, suspect that "Did you come?" isn't on the interrogation checklist. It's irrelevant to the investigation, and sharing the answer, if affirmative, can be considered very likely to make the woman's experience far more traumatic in the very early stages of the recovery process. Just hearing the question can be horrible, as it suggests that whole line of "she wanted it" blame the victim thinking.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2011, 11:01 AM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
It's not a study that can be ethically set up. And a rapist is not going to be a reliable self-reporter. I don't have a citation either, so I'm willing to step back on my assertion. But it seems like common sense that male rapes of females would usually end with the rapist orgasming.

I do wonder why you (or anyone) would have the impression that a male would not typically orgasm while raping a woman?
Certainly it's a study that can ethically done.

In 1977, in fact, A. Nicholas Gorth, PhD, and Ann Wolbert Burgess, R.N., reported on the results of just such a study in the New England Journal of Medicine. (Oct 6. 1977 pp 764-766)

They broke out sexual dysfunction from rapists into three categories:

"Erective inadequacy," which they defined as the rapist's partial or complete failure or attain or maintain an erection. They noted that some cases were further defined as "conditional impotence," in which the rapist displayed initial erective incompetence but forced the victim to stimulate him orally or manually, or where the victim's struggles in response to the assault produced the erection.

"Premature ejactulation," where ejaculation occurs before or immediately upon penetration.

"Ejaculatory incompetence," in which extended intromission by the rapist did not result in ejaculation at all.

Thirty-four percent of the cases they studied contained some sexual dysfunction as defined above. Another twenty percent were reported as not applicable to determining whether sexual dysfunction existed, due to:
  • No attempt at penetration
  • Assault interrupted
  • Successful resistance by victim

Twenty-one percent of the cases did not provide sufficient data to draw a conclusion. Only twenty-five percent of the cases studied had no sexual dysfunction present.

Of the thirty-four percent mentioned above:
  • 16 percent showed erective inadequacy (impotence)
  • 3 percent showed premature ejaculation
  • 15 percent showed ejaculatory incompetence (no ejaculation)

As the authors go on to discuss, there was a substantial amount of ejaculatory dysfunction, especially ejaculatory incomptence, when considered in comparison to the general population. This is an infrequent complaint, affecting about 1 in 700 men, yet it was the second major cause of sexual dysfunction among rapists.

Analysis of hospital records and rape kits bear this conclusion out. Of 23 victims that encountered multiple rapists during their attack, fully half tested negative for sperm.

In short, if indeed "common sense" suggests that male rapes of females would usually end with the rapist orgasming, then "common sense," is wrong.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2011, 02:07 PM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Originally Posted by WhyNot View Post
Rape kits can detect if the male ejaculated, some of the time. If he wore a condom, it won't. If he performed multiple penetrative rapes and there's some semen, you can't tell if he ejaculated every time. Since orgasm and ejaculation in men is correlated, not identical, you can't tell if he orgasmed or not for sure (although it's very likely that if there is semen, he probably orgasmed at least once.)
I'm not saying rape kits represent a complete factual picture, only that the data is available, and it offers a more complete representation of reality than one person's common sense and heartfelt opinion. See Bricker's cite for details.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2011, 05:16 PM
Mean Mr. Mustard Mean Mr. Mustard is offline
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Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
A woman's orgasms are more mental than physiological. The incidence of female orgasm during voluntary penis-in-vagina intercourse is less than 30%... <snip>
I think you missed the OP's intent by, oh, a million miles.


mmm
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakes View Post
I was surprised to learn that this actually happens. Which I can only imagine, makes it THAT much more emotionally damaging to the victim.
Could you give us the cite where you heard this, so we can evaluate how real it is?
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:13 AM
dracoi dracoi is offline
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Could you give us the cite where you heard this, so we can evaluate how real it is?
I cannot speak for the OP, but I recall reading a rape survivor's story in which it happened. It was a date rape by her boyfriend and there was fooling around going on willingly before he decided to go all the way by force. She said that having an orgasm during the rape made her feel like her body betrayed her and that it made emotional recovery more difficult.
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  #21  
Old 01-16-2011, 09:59 AM
even sven even sven is offline
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The idea that women are not physically sexual creatures is warmed over Victorian BS. Yes, with enough training (which our society is often glad to offer) you can damper your sexual response. But friction is friction, and certain kinds of friction will lead to orgasm despite whatever your mind is thinking. Penis-vag friction may not be the "right kind" of friction for all women, but it certainly is for some.
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  #22  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:05 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
I think you missed the OP's intent by, oh, a million miles.
The OP disagrees. See post 5.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:08 AM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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There's a huge amount of commentary where people make the same basic assertions: that female orgasms happens during rape, and that it's not uncommon. None of them cite to any authority to support those statements.

Here is an account of a stranger rape in which the victim experiences orgasm during the act, and strikes me as a credible recounting.

Last edited by Bricker; 01-16-2011 at 10:09 AM..
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Jormungandr Jormungandr is offline
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If one is depending on a rapist's statements, he might confuse a woman's natural lubrication for an orgasm. I really want to say it was on "Slate," but I can't remember (which seems to be happening today a lot). There was an article last year mentioned that a woman's body would release more vaginal lubrication as a defensive measure to limit some of the physical damage than there would be with a "dry" vagina caused by the rape.
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  #25  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:41 PM
Bam Boo Gut Bam Boo Gut is offline
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Originally Posted by dracoi View Post
She said that having an orgasm during the rape made her feel like her body betrayed her and that it made emotional recovery more difficult.
The body just reacts on its own.

Some rapists can't even get a hard on let alone ejaculate - that's all part of the issue.
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2011, 08:06 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Originally Posted by Jormungandr View Post
If one is depending on a rapist's statements, he might confuse a woman's natural lubrication for an orgasm. I really want to say it was on "Slate," but I can't remember (which seems to be happening today a lot). There was an article last year mentioned that a woman's body would release more vaginal lubrication as a defensive measure to limit some of the physical damage than there would be with a "dry" vagina caused by the rape.
Yes, which is why I provided a cite in which the VICTIM reported the orgasm.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2011, 10:00 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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There was a thread a long time ago, maybe when the SD was on AOL, where it was mentioned that the woman climaxing was at one time a defense against rape, basically she wanted it and therefore no didn't mean no.

I've heard it happens, and it also has the tendency of having the woman of having feel their body betray them, adding to damage.
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2011, 10:23 AM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
I've heard it happens, and it also has the tendency of having the woman of having feel their body betray them, adding to damage.
This response suggests to me that you didn't read this thread, because it fails to acknowledge that this observation has been made multiple times:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyhorse View Post
It is safe to say it is relatively low but does happen. It is also safe to say out of those who have been studied they did report that it increased their confusion, emotional damage, and sense of blaming themselves for the crime. (this was gleaned by Googling "study frequency of climax during rape" and navigating to a few book results which generally wound up leading to cites from the Kinsey Institute).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot View Post
And I strongly, very strongly, suspect that "Did you come?" isn't on the interrogation checklist. It's irrelevant to the investigation, and sharing the answer, if affirmative, can be considered very likely to make the woman's experience far more traumatic in the very early stages of the recovery process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dracoi View Post
I cannot speak for the OP, but I recall reading a rape survivor's story in which it happened. It was a date rape by her boyfriend and there was fooling around going on willingly before he decided to go all the way by force. She said that having an orgasm during the rape made her feel like her body betrayed her and that it made emotional recovery more difficult.
Did you in fact read any of those posts?
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2011, 11:20 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
This response suggests to me that you didn't read this thread, because it fails to acknowledge that this observation has been made multiple times:







Did you in fact read any of those posts?
I did read the thread and those replys to the OP including those 3 that you pointed out.

It does not negate my post in any way, nor negated what they have added and adds a potential search for anyone interested or perhaps someone will remember it better. Further I do not need to justify my posting in this thread to you so why did you make this post?

Why didn't you post such a reply to WhyNot and Dracoi because Crazyhorse posted something likewise Bricker?

Last edited by kanicbird; 01-17-2011 at 11:25 AM..
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
I did read the thread and those replys to the OP including those 3 that you pointed out.

It does not negate my post in any way, nor negated what they have added and adds a potential search for anyone interested or perhaps someone will remember it better. Further I do not need to justify my posting in this thread to you so why did you make this post?

Why didn't you post such a reply to WhyNot and Dracoi because Crazyhorse posted something likewise Bricker?
Nor did I claim it "negated" their posts. I said by posting what you did without the slightest indication that it was duplicative, it gave the impression you weren't aware of the earlier posts.

Your motive was "adding a potential search," eh?

]I can tell you that both WhyNot's and Dracoi's posts, while containing the same information yours did, also had something additional. Only yours was completely cumulative of previous information and completely failed to acknowledge that fact.
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