The idea that women are not physically sexual creatures is warmed over Victorian BS. Yes, with enough training (which our society is often glad to offer) you can damper your sexual response. But friction is friction, and certain kinds of friction will lead to orgasm despite whatever your mind is thinking. Penis-vag friction may not be the “right kind” of friction for all women, but it certainly is for some.
The OP disagrees. See post 5.
There’s a huge amount of commentary where people make the same basic assertions: that female orgasms happens during rape, and that it’s not uncommon. None of them cite to any authority to support those statements.
Here is an account of a stranger rape in which the victim experiences orgasm during the act, and strikes me as a credible recounting.
If one is depending on a rapist’s statements, he might confuse a woman’s natural lubrication for an orgasm. I really want to say it was on “Slate,” but I can’t remember (which seems to be happening today a lot). There was an article last year mentioned that a woman’s body would release more vaginal lubrication as a defensive measure to limit some of the physical damage than there would be with a “dry” vagina caused by the rape.
The body just reacts on its own.
Some rapists can’t even get a hard on let alone ejaculate - that’s all part of the issue.
Yes, which is why I provided a cite in which the VICTIM reported the orgasm.
There was a thread a long time ago, maybe when the SD was on AOL, where it was mentioned that the woman climaxing was at one time a defense against rape, basically she wanted it and therefore no didn’t mean no.
I’ve heard it happens, and it also has the tendency of having the woman of having feel their body betray them, adding to damage.
This response suggests to me that you didn’t read this thread, because it fails to acknowledge that this observation has been made multiple times:
Did you in fact read any of those posts?
I did read the thread and those replys to the OP including those 3 that you pointed out.
It does not negate my post in any way, nor negated what they have added and adds a potential search for anyone interested or perhaps someone will remember it better. Further I do not need to justify my posting in this thread to you so why did you make this post?
Why didn’t you post such a reply to WhyNot and** Dracoi** because Crazyhorse posted something likewise Bricker?
Nor did I claim it “negated” their posts. I said by posting what you did without the slightest indication that it was duplicative, it gave the impression you weren’t aware of the earlier posts.
Your motive was “adding a potential search,” eh?
]I can tell you that both WhyNot’s and Dracoi’s posts, while containing the same information yours did, also had something additional. Only yours was completely cumulative of previous information and completely failed to acknowledge that fact.
I think it’s extremely important for rape victims to know that orgasm during rape is not them consenting to the act. and in many cases, i’ts your body’s natural response to stimulation. however, i do wonder if the physical sensations that lead to orgasm are ALWAYS a case of the body defending itself or is it just simply the body enjoying a sensation that was meant to be pleasurable. the clitoris can’t tell if it’s a woman’s husband or attacker that is performing cunnilingus on her. likewise, the vagina walls can’t tell if the thickness filling them up is the girth of her husband or an attacker. the body just responds to what feels good and in some cases (maybe even many) it’s not necessarily ‘defense’ but simply an automatic response to stimuli meant to be pleasurable. if anyone is confused by the difference, defense as i refer to it, is the body guarding or protecting the vagina from damage by ‘self-lubricating’ versus physical ‘enjoyment’ where the vagina/clitoris “likes” the sensations they are feeling and lubricate even if the victim is resisting.
An actual factual answer to the question is impossible. How are you going to study it? We don’t even know for sure how many rapes happen each year.
I suspect actual pleasure and orgasms during rape are far more common during attacks on young pubescent individuals than they are during date-rapes or other rapes on adults. The emotional fallout of a young teenager (boy or girl) who was coerced/forced into an act and then experiences pleasure despite not wanting to participate must be incredible.
If true, a rate of 50% is higher than the rate of orgasm among women who have voluntary PIV sex with someone they are attracted to.
A hypothesis (please don’t kill the messenger on this one) for this issue is that orgasm increases the odds of fertilization due to uterine contractions helping sperm move within the fallopian tubes. If a woman gets impregnated by a rapist, and he grows up to become a rapist (rather than someone who impregnates women via gaining resources or having good genetics) that creates an incentive to get pregnant via rape. Women who get pregnant via rape have kids who become rapists and get other women pregnant, and the genes spread.
Basically, we are evolved from a long line of rapists and rape victims.
Then again, a child needs a lot of material and psychological resources and a child of rape is not going to be wanted nearly as much as a child born of a voluntary pair bond. So you’d assume in human history a lot of children of rape were neglected, abused or killed by their mothers which means the genes wouldn’t spread.
What? I don’t understand your logic here. Maybe I’m just tired…
In the article it says that 4 to 5% of rape victims report orgasm. The therapist you quote seems to be dealing with survivors of statutory rape which causes psychological damage but is not always traumatic in the moment.
As you point out, this may be a short-term reproductive strategy… but:
-it often takes a lot of close encounters of the penetrative kind before a woman becomes pregnant. Random opportunistic forced intercourse probably has a much lower success rate than a regular couple’s relationship.
-until the advent of agriculture, say 5,000 to 10,00 years ago, humans lived in small tribes. Certain behaviours are not compatible with living in small groups. Someone using rape as a reproductive strategy probably risked not only rejection of his children, but also risked life and limb (or other appendage) himself. Male jealously is a strongly ingrained trait, for specifically that reason.
I recall reading an article discussing women’s rape fantasies. Usually, these revolved around desirable males forcing themselves on the woman. It was suggested that most societies, being male dominated, used social pressure to prevent women from exploring their sexuality. Imagining that they “had no choice” was a safe out for women’s fantasies, it’s not their fault so they are not violating social codes; just as a male fantasizes that women throw themselves at him, thereby bypassing the difficult task of persuasion or seduction, or violating social codes against acts like adultery. In neither case is it an indication that they want undesirable strangers to have their way, and is unlikely to mean they are excited during the act.
Yes, our bodies may very well “like” an aggressive mate who does not shy away from violence, as one reproductive strategy.
And/or a psychologist or psychiatrist is likely to see a self selected sample of victims, those who were most emotionally traumatized by their attacks…which could easily skew to those who feel their body betrayed them by orgasming.
Most women’s bodies seem to feel nothing but pain during acts of rape, according to reports by the victims. Many women suffer significant vaginal tearing and physical damage.
As to the other question, do men climax during rape, apparently many rapists do indeed have performance problems:
J Sex Med. 2013 Jul;10(7):1744-54. doi: 10.1111/jsm.12188. Epub 2013 May 13.
The sexual functioning profile of a nonforensic sample of individuals reporting sexual aggression against women.
Carvalho J1, Quinta-Gomes A, Nobre PJ.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
Sexual offenders are believed to present marked sexual difficulties. However, most of the studies characterizing sex offenders’ sexual functioning were conducted with samples of documented/incarcerated sexual aggressors. At the present state of the knowledge there is limited information on the sexual functioning profile of individuals reporting some form of sexual violence but who were not documented/apprehended by the judicial system.
AIM:
The aim of this preliminary study was to characterize a sample of community sexual aggressors (college students) according to their sexual functioning. Results were expected to add information about the relationship between sexual functioning and sexual violence, and to impact strategies aimed at preventing sexual aggression on college campus.
METHODS:
One hundred sixty-one male college students participated in a cross-sectional study. Students were recruited at a Portuguese university using nonrandom methods. Among these students, 35 reported sexual aggression against women. The measures were completed individually and anonymously.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Participants completed a modified version of the International Index of Erectile Function, the Sexual Inhibition and Sexual Excitation Scales, the Sexual Self-Consciousness Scale, the Questionnaire of Cognitive Schema Activation in Sexual Context, and the Sexual-Esteem Scale.
RESULTS:
Results indicated that students reporting sexual aggression against women presented significantly more erectile and orgasmic difficulties, and more sexual inhibition due to the threat of performance failure than the control peers. Additionally, students reporting sexual aggression presented more sexual embarrassment, and more schemas of undesirability and incompetence.
CONCLUSIONS:
Results pointed toward a possible relationship between sexual violence as reported by college students and sexual performance anxiety. These findings are expected to impact conceptual models on sexual aggression perpetrated by nonforensic individuals.
© 2013 International Society for Sexual Medicine.
KEYWORDS:
College Students; Rapists; Sexual Aggression; Sexual Functioning
See, anytime you start using words like “most,” I’m going to start asking for numbers.
Some women experience tearing and physical trauma. Some don’t. The very real problem with assuming “most” do (without evidence, numbers) is that leads us back down the path of doubting women whose rape exams reveal no damage.
Remember, most rape isn’t sudden, violent rape by a stranger - only 10% of rapes fit that model. Most rape is done by someone the victim knows and trusts, and quite often it escalates, with enough time for her body to respond by producing vaginal lubrication.
It doesn’t take long for my body to provide lubrication, whether I’m actually wanting sex or not. Unless someone performed a classic jump out of the bushes stranger rape, chances are good that I’m not going to tear. I didn’t tear any of the multiple times I was raped (by someone I knew.) Still rape.