Well, well ... has Tony Blair become a delusional Islamophobe bigot like me?

Great Debates
1

Just for the sake of argument (what else would it be for on Great Debates?) I just came across Youtube of the British former Prime Minister Tony Blair making these comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Thm6pLmhM&feature=player_embedded

While the Youtube posting appears to have been quite recent (January 21, 2011) I have no information on where and when he made these comments, although it appears to be a public pronouncement that is relatively recent.

What amazes me is that Blair is saying things very similar to what I have said repeatedly on this forum, and for which I have been called a bigot and a racist (Islam is a race???:confused:)

Blair is warning that the West that it must abandon its “wretched posture of apology” towards Islamic extremism.

He is saying that while it is true that the actual terrorists are a small percentage of Muslims, “the global ideology what gives rise to this extremism has far deeper roots”.

Similarly, I have never claimed that ALL Muslims are involved in terrorism or are intent on replacing western democracy with Islam. I do indeed recognize that there are moderate Muslims.

The problem is that these moderate Muslims do not control Islam or the well-financed, extremist, world-wide ideology that is intent on destroying our way of life and replacing it with submission to Allah.

To go back to an analogy I have made hundreds of times, does it really matter to a Holocaust victim that the vast majority of Germans in Nazi Germany did not want to see Jews exterminated? Or is the operative reality here that Germany was controlled by people who DID want the genocide to proceed?

Blair is more of less admitting that contempt for the West and its values is intrinsic to Islam, and that Islam is basically an ideology (he uses the word several times) that is waging a world-wide jihad against the west.

When I mentioned “world-wide jihad” I was of course called delusional and bigoted.

Note also that among the comments following the video is one by a certain ALLAHU AKBAR AlLHAMDULILAH who, far from denying that this is what Islam wants for the west, openly tells us: " Islam will never stop growing **now face it **its the fastest growing religion :)".

2

Yes, Tony Blair is a delusional bigotted Islamophobe. Whether that also describes you, I cannot say in this forum.

3

What? People said mean things to you? Oh, my! Oh, dear me!

4

Meh, to me it shows 2 things:

  1. That it was very likely that Tony Blair had other stupid reasons in the past to go along with Dubya with the stupid invasion of Iraq.

  2. That ALLAHU AKBAR AlLHAMDULILAH does not know how to add, in the matter of the fastest growing religion, what counts is not the proportion but the number of new adherents, Christianity still beats all.

5

That is interesting, because it is the Blair government that allowed massive Muslim immigration to Britain in the past. The increasing demands for Sharia law in Britain, the no-go areas in British cities where infidels dare not set foot, home-grown terrorists like the shoe bomber, the growing resistance movements like the English Defence League and its counterparts in Europe, are all the result of politically correct potliticians in the past 20 years who insisted that anyone who dared to say that Islam was not just a religion like the others were ignorant bigots. What do you suppose changed old Tony right around 180 degrees?

6

I’m not sure why Tony Blair is considered an authority on Islam.

I’m also not sure how Islamic theology is somehow inherently worse than Christianity or Christian theology.

Certainly in many backward countries the Islam that is preached is quite radical but the same is true of Christianity in backward countries.

If you don’t believe me, ask gays in Uganda, “witches” in West Africa or women all over Sub-Saharran Africa.

I’m sure Episcopalions in the US or Anglicans in the UK would be furious at me if I judged them by Peter Akinola and his followers even though Nigerian Anglicans vastly outnumber Anglicans in the US or the UK.

7

Why would you say he made a 180 degrees turn, when it’s more like a 360. It’s the same person that said he had ultimately committed GB to the Iraq Invasion because of his faith.
Personal delusions about a Muslim invasion of Europe would probably find more echo on the Skadi site than here I guess.

8

9/11

9

Well, there’s an error right there. No one entity ‘controls’ Islam. You are aware that there are numerous sects within the religion, right?

Anyway, you are claiming that you couldn’t possibly be a bigot because Tony Blair thinks the same way you do? Isn’t that the fallacy of Appeal to Authority?

10

Is that like a muezzin’s call?

11

I wondered how long it would take for the relativist argument to pop up. As long as there are some forms of ultra-conservative and repressive Christianity in the world, nobody can say anything about what is clearly a world-wide ideology of world submission that is threatening the west?

You remind me of a Muslim who pointed out that gays in Islam are generally whipped for a first offence, and not put to death until they have “re-offended” wheras the Bible (Old Testament) prescribes death, so Islam is less homophobic. Now, let’s see, Ibn Warraq, if you can spot the flaw in this reasoning. (Hint: The answer could begin "Apart from Uganda, no Christian or Western country today. . . . "

12

No kidding. Valteron has never ordered a war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Blair has done that. Valteron is merely having his usualy delusions of grandeur when he compares himself to Blair.

13

Really? I was under the impression the significant immigration of Muslims occurred post-war and through to the early 70s. I also thought that the recent growth in Islamic population was through births rather than new immigration.

14

And this is where you mis the point. The problem doesnt specifically come from Islam, it coms from West vs Third World. Islam is just the latest train. It was Marxism and nationalism before that.

15

Reread my OP. I merely wondered aloud that my bigoted delusional Islamophobia could be spreading to a person who presumably has some knowledge and experience in world affairs. I never said I couldn’t possibly be a bigot. If you want to call that “appeal to authority” go ahead.

Yes, there are reportedly hundreds of sects in Islam, in addition to the basic Shia/Sunni split. So I guess there can’t be any danger. Tell all the people killed by jihadis in Mumbai, New York, London, Madrid, the Philippines, Thailand, Israel, Russia etc. to stop pretending they are dead and to come out of hiding.

Islam is way too divided to harm us, apparently.

16

Surely you don’t intend to imply that Valteron was making stuff up to suit the bizarre needs of his bizarre argument! Everyone who participates in his threads knows that he’s always right. Always.

17

As has already been pointed out, it’s utterly absurd for you to claim that Tony Blair adopted his hatred of Muslims from you. Tony Blair had already killed vast numbers of innocent Muslims before you started posting your anti-Muslim rants here. If there’s any relationship between your bigotry and his, it must have spread from him to you, not the other way around.

The difference between the two of you is that Tony Blair was Prime Minister of Britain, and thus was able to order his country into a war on false premises. You, on the other hand, can do nothing more with you false premises than post them on them on the internet.

18

Oh right.

  • Like those Third World Mexicans who hijacked two jets and flew them into skyscrapers in Chicago, believing that they would go to paradise for murdering thousands of innocent persons.

  • Like those Third World Congolese who blew up trains in Madrid.

  • Like those Vietnamese immigrants whose American-born children return to Viet Nam to train as fighters in Holy Wars against the West.

  • Like those Third World Hindus who blew up busses in London a few years ago.

Never heard of those events? Neither did I. Strange.

19

Any cite on the Islamic immigration under the Blair government argument? You could be right, but it goes against what I had been taught so forgive me for not taking it as read.

20

-No strife in Mexico? Mexican drug war - Wikipedia

-Congolese pacifism ? Sexual violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo - Wikipedia

-India peaceful co-existence of religions? Religious violence in India - Wikipedia