Should a disabled person get first use of the handicapped bathroom stall when there's a line?

[Annie-Xmas]

This only happened once when I was wearing the cast on my arm. I went into the public bathroom and there was a line. When the person came out of the one hanicapped stall, I was seven people back, but the next person on line used it. When she came out, I was three people back, but the lady at the head of the line told me I could go.

So what is your opinion?

[Ann Onimous]

I think so.

[One And Only Wanderers]

I'm voting yes.

This is assuming that there are more standard stalls than disabled. An able bodied person has more available stalls, the disabled person just the one.

If however there is just the one stall, which happens to be disabled friendly, then I would need to rethink.

[Sarahfeena]

I would say yes, but also that I don't think having a cast on your arm is a disability that requires the handicapped stall.

[Ann Onimous]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

I would say yes, but also that I don't think having a cast on your arm is a disability that requires the handicapped stall.

I'll have to disagree on that in some cases. With a cast, your range of motion is limited, and you may need more room to... uh... pull your pants down. Some of the regular stalls I've seen are extremely small.

[Annie-Xmas]

Really? At the time I only had use of one hand. Would a missing arm count as handicapped?

Praise be for elastic waistbands on pants!

ETA: As Ann Onimous pointed out, regular stalls are very small. Try doing your thing with a full cast from wrist to halfway up your upper arm.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Ann Onimous

I'll have to disagree on that in some cases. With a cast, your range of motion is limited, and you may need more room to... uh... pull your pants down. Some of the regular stalls I've seen are extremely small.

Maybe, I guess. But I don't think people are going to notice someone with a cast on their arm and automatically assume that they need the handicapped stall. I don't think it would occur to me, quite honestly, whereas if someone had a wheelchair or crutches it would.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Really? At the time I only had use of one hand. Would a missing arm count as handicapped?

Praise be for elastic waistbands on pants!

ETA: As Ann Onimous pointed out, regular stalls are very small. Try doing your thing with a full cast from wrist to halfway up your upper arm.

I broke my arm way up by my shoulder once. They couldn't put a cast on it, and so they immobilized it by strapping it to my body with a big brace. Couldn't move it at all. It was a huge pain in the ass to do anything, but there's nothing about a handicapped stall that would have helped me even a little.

[CrazyCatLady]

Depends on the situation. If they're within the next cycle, then absolutely wave them ahead into the disabled stall when it comes available. Otherwise, when they come to the front of the line, they're going to be waiting most of another cycle before they can get into a stall. If there's a line out the door where people at the front of the line have been waiting for 10 minutes, and they've just joined the very back of the line...they can wait a little while.

[Malacandra]

The disabled stall is for disabled people. Use of it by able-bodied people is a privilege, not a right, and lasts only until a disabled person needs to use the facility. If you don't like it, go get yourself a disability and see if you think the perk is worth it.

--Mal, able-bodied.

[Manda JO]

One, as CCL says, they should go to the front of the line because otherwise they will have to wait at the front of the line for 3-5 people before actually getting a chance to go.

Furthermore, seeing as it is such a tremendous pain in the ass to use a public restroom when you are disabled, I tend to assume that if they are there at all, they really, really need to go.

Finally, if some schmuck actually manages to play the disabled card and get an advantage they didn't really need . . . I think I am ok with that. I mean, I get to be abled for the rest of the day (and hopefully longer). I'm not going to worry if they pulled one over on me.

[Skammer]

My wife is a primary caregiver for her handicapped sister, so I'm very sensitive to these situations. I tend to agree with most of the comments so far: if the handicapped person was in a long line outside the bathroom (like in a stadium) they should wait for a while like everyone else; but once they get closer they should be allowed to take the handicapped stall as soon as it is available. The distance they get to move up is determined by the number of stalls.

It wouldn't occur to me to give a handicapped stall to someone with a broken or missing arm, although I understand and have no problem with doing so. It's just that my brain tends to equate "handicapped stall" with "wheelchair accessible" so it wouldn't dawn on me that a one-armed person would need to use it.

[Annie-Xmas]

Try this experiment: Just once, strap one arm to your body and then use the bathroom. You will never take two-armed toilet use for granted again.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Try this experiment: Just once, strap one arm to your body and then use the bathroom. You will never take two-armed toilet use for granted again.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...29&postcount=8

I'm not saying I take it for granted, I said I didn't need the big stall.

[Skammer]

I'm not saying it's an illegitimate use of the handicapped stall; it just wouldn't be on my radar.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Skammer

I'm not saying it's an illegitimate use of the handicapped stall; it just wouldn't be on my radar.

Exactly.

[elbows]

Personally, I think they should wait. The disabled people I know would prefer to be treated like anyone else, or so they're always saying, anyway.

And as someone currently having an out of commission right arm, I fail to see what the handicap stall provides that will help me. Getting my pants down is the same trial in any stall. I would hardly expect to jump the queue because of it.

[ENugent]

I answered the poll before reading the OP, so I was thinking wheelchair, not broken arm. An additional factor there is that many of the conditions that can put you in a wheelchair in the first place can make it very difficult to wait for the bathroom. I'd wave them in, no matter how far back in line they were. A broken arm, I might wait until they get close to the front of the line, as others have said.

[Vihaga]

I'd lt someone in a wheelchair go ahead of me, but someone in a cast wouldn't even register as needing the handicapped stall, let alone needing to go to the bathroom more urgently than anyone else.

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by elbows

Personally, I think they should wait. The disabled people I know would prefer to be treated like anyone else, or so they're always saying, anyway.

It's not being treated the same as everyone else if you get to the front of the line and then have to let the 4 people behind you go first because the 4 normal stalls open up before the handicap one does again.

[perfectparanoia]

Letting someone who is disabled go ahead of me will cost me very little in terms of my time. They have to deal with their disability 100% of their time. Definitely let them go ahead.

As to the one-handed thing. I used the handicap stall when I broke my dominant hand but not when I had a similar injury to my non-dominant hand. It gave me more room to dance into my (thank-god-for-elastic-waistband) pants. Good grief my right arm is a useless piece of junk!

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

It's not being treated the same as everyone else if you get to the front of the line and then have to let the 4 people behind you go first because the 4 normal stalls open up before the handicap one does again.

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I wouldn't take the handicapped stall if there was anyone in line I thought might need it. It just wouldn't occur to me that someone with their arm in a cast would need it. If they asked me, though, I'd say go right ahead, of course.

[levdrakon]

If there are multiple stalls and one is marked the handicapped stall, then it's a bit like taking the handicapped parking spot at the grocery store and making the poor guy in the wheelchair van behind you wait because you'll "just be a sec!"

If there's only one stall and it's also handicapped, you gotta wait your turn.

Arm cast? Wouldn't really occur to me that you're handicapped, but I'd probably let you go ahead unless I had to pee really bad.

[Cheesesteak]

I'd say a fair way to do it is to let the disabled person get "next" for the handicapped stall if they're close to the front of the line. Close being defined as "fewer people in front of you than there are available stalls" That is, if there are 5 stalls, you get "next" if you're 5th in line. If you're 6th in line, you wait.

I'd be willing to adjust this if the disabled person is disabled in a way that makes waiting to go to the bathroom a difficulty.

[LouisB]

Standing in place causes me some unusual pain; if it is a stall designated for use by the handicapped, I (or any other handicapped person) should have first claim. Even so, if someone in front of me is in dire need of a stall, I would yield my claim.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I would let the handicapped person go ahead of me.

That being said, a person in an arm cast or a person who 'standing in place causes me some unusual pain' wouldn't even strike me as being handicapped so it wouldn't occur to me to offer up the stall.

Seriously - how does 'standing in place causes me some unusual pain' even look so that others would know it was an issue? And if there was a person in a wheelchair also waiting for the stall, would you go ahead and use it or offer it to them?

And don't even get me started on the fact that the diaper changing deck is in the handicapped stall more often than it isn't. Actually - that's a bit of a non-starter I guess - If I were waiting with Junior and a person in a wheelchair came in I would still let them go first. While a poopie diaper probably doesn't feel good, he can probably wait. It still wouldn't occur to me to let someone in an arm cast or an uncomfortable stander go in front though.

[shiftless]

I voted no and was surprised to find myself so alone. Of course, a lot depends on the actual handicap and how long the line is. One or two people - sure, step aside and give the guy in the wheelchair a break. A hundred people in line and a guy with a faint limp heads to the front - no way. I also think the handicapped shouldn't go to the front of the line at amusement parks, so maybe I'm just insensitive.

[Little Nemo]

It's a question of entitlement. A disabled person is entitled to priority to the handicapped stall over a non-disabled person. Non-disabled people are only entitled to use the handicapped stall when there are no disabled people around.

It's like if you had a roommate who had a video game system and he said you could use it. So you play video games while he's at work. But when he gets home, he can kick you off the system and play games himself even though you were using it first. He's entitled to use it whenever he wants because he has priority over you.

[Annie-Xmas]

Originally Posted by elbows

Personally, I think they should wait. The disabled people I know would prefer to be treated like anyone else, or so they're always saying, anyway..

I think that statement should read "Being treated like everyone else when it is appropriate, but getting help when it is required or asked for."

When I went to Yankee Candle with the full cast on my arm, the nice salesclerk asked me if I needed any help. I said no, I'd be a while picking out candles. She went away. Later, when I asked her for a plastic bag, she got me one and snapped it open (I would have had to use my teeth to do that). She didn't offer to put the candles in the bag, as I could do that with my one good hand. When I asked her to put the bag in my tote bag, she did it.

[BrotherCadfael]

Someone permanently in a wheelchair may and probably does have bladder and bowel control issues, and may really, really need to jump the line, and should be allowed to do so. So if there are multiple stalls, non-handicapped users can use the accessible stall, but handicapped users get priority.

There are some who would say that the non-handicapped should NEVER use the accessible stall, because a handicapped user with bladder or bowel issues MIGHT come in, but this is, I think, going too far.

Someone in a cast (arm or leg) needs the extra room to maneuver, but ought to wait in line like everyone else.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

I think that statement should read "Being treated like everyone else when it is appropriate, but getting help when it is required or asked for."

When I went to Yankee Candle with the full cast on my arm, the nice salesclerk asked me if I needed any help. I said no, I'd be a while picking out candles. She went away. Later, when I asked her for a plastic bag, she got me one and snapped it open (I would have had to use my teeth to do that). She didn't offer to put the candles in the bag, as I could do that with my one good hand. When I asked her to put the bag in my tote bag, she did it.

Right, because 1) she could easily see that it would be difficult for you to open the plastic bag with one hand, and 2) only an asshole would not help when someone requested it.

Neither of these applies in a situation where a person with a cast is standing in line in a bathroom, unless that person pipes up and asks to go next.

[Hakuna Matata]

This question seems to come up a lot and I can only answer it as an Architect so you have to bear with me!

A Handicap toilet stall is an accommodation and is NOT similar to a Handicap parking space. A HC parking space is for specific use of someone who is disabled. A HC toilet is for use by everyone but has the accommodation of being easier to use then a regular toilet stall. A HC person can use a regular toilet stall, but it is more difficult. When we determine the number of toilets in a facility it only takes into account the numbers of female and male users, not the % of disabled individuals. The code just requires that one of the stalls have this accommodation. If you don't use the HC stall you are underusing the capacity of the toilet room.

Now given all that, the courteous thing to do is to allow the HC person to use the HC stall, which is what I would do given they were already within the next group of users. If you are outside the door, then the HC person should wait their turn until they are within the group of next immediate users in my opinion.

But I did want to discourage anyone from thinking that the HC stall is only for use by the disabled which has come up in previous threads on this topic. Someone who is very large also has difficulties in a regular stall as well, they can use it, but clearly a HC stall would be easier. The HC stall if for use by all patrons and is an accommodation for those who need it.

[Annie-Xmas]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

Right, because 1) she could easily see that it would be difficult for you to open the plastic bag with one hand, and 2) only an asshole would not help when someone requested it.

There are a few assholes in this world, cause I had people turn down requests to zip up my coat and tie my shoes when I was in the cast.

Neither of these applies in a situation where a person with a cast is standing in line in a bathroom, unless that person pipes up and asks to go next.

You couldn't easily see that a handicapped person needs the handicapped stall? They should have to ask for it?

[SciFiSam]

Obviously the disabled person should have priority. That's partly point of the stall. They're not 'toilets for disabled people but only if the able-bodied people feel like letting them use it.'

A lot of toilets for disabled people in the UK can only be opened by a radar key, which isn't easy to get - you have to be claiming disability benefits, according to my local council. People without disabilities aren't even supposed to us that stall at all.

This can be a stupid policy sometimes, though, since it excludes people with temporary disabilities like a broken leg and people whose disabilities aren't bad enough to necessitate disability benefits, but are bad enough that they need the special loo. Like, when my narcolepsy was particularly bad, I'd avoid stairs because I fainted so frequently, and obviously most disabled toilets are placed where you don't have to use the stairs.

You wouldn't have know I had a disability, though; you don't know if the other people in that queue did either.

[Doctor Who]

You wait! (obligatory Curb Your Enthusiasm youtube reference for non-link clickers).

[SciFiSam]

Originally Posted by Hakuna Matata

This question seems to come up a lot and I can only answer it as an Architect so you have to bear with me!

A Handicap toilet stall is an accommodation and is NOT similar to a Handicap parking space. A HC parking space is for specific use of someone who is disabled. A HC toilet is for use by everyone but has the accommodation of being easier to use then a regular toilet stall. A HC person can use a regular toilet stall, but it is more difficult. When we determine the number of toilets in a facility it only takes into account the numbers of female and male users, not the % of disabled individuals. The code just requires that one of the stalls have this accommodation. If you don't use the HC stall you are underusing the capacity of the toilet room.

Now given all that, the courteous thing to do is to allow the HC person to use the HC stall, which is what I would do given they were already within the next group of users. If you are outside the door, then the HC person should wait their turn until they are within the group of next immediate users in my opinion.

But I did want to discourage anyone from thinking that the HC stall is only for use by the disabled which has come up in previous threads on this topic. Someone who is very large also has difficulties in a regular stall as well, they can use it, but clearly a HC stall would be easier. The HC stall if for use by all patrons and is an accommodation for those who need it.

Re: the bolded bit. Lots of people with disabilities wouldn't be able to use the regular stalls at all. You're an architect and didn't realise that someone in a wheelchair wouldn't be able to get up stairs or manoeuvre around a regular-sized stall?

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

You couldn't easily see that a handicapped person needs the handicapped stall? They should have to ask for it?

Only one where the handicap is such that it isn't immediately obvious that the person would have a preference for the handicap stall. As has been made clear in this thread, some people (and types of casts) require the extra room, and some don't, and it's going to be on the person in the cast to say "I really need the extra room in there. Is it okay if I jump ahead now that it's open?".

[Agent Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by shiftless

I voted no and was surprised to find myself so alone. Of course, a lot depends on the actual handicap and how long the line is. One or two people - sure, step aside and give the guy in the wheelchair a break. A hundred people in line and a guy with a faint limp heads to the front - no way. I also think the handicapped shouldn't go to the front of the line at amusement parks, so maybe I'm just insensitive.

I agree. I put Other as it depends on the situation. If someone's in obvious physical discomfort waiting in line, then yes. Broken arm? Wait your turn.

[Hakuna Matata]

Originally Posted by SciFiSam

Re: the bolded bit. Lots of people with disabilities wouldn't be able to use the regular stalls at all. You're an architect and didn't realise that someone in a wheelchair wouldn't be able to get up stairs or manoeuvre around a regular-sized stall?

There are LOTS of disabled people with LOTS of different disabilities. I was one just awhile back when I was on crutches for six months with a broken hip. Trust me I totally understand the issues involved. For example a deaf or a blind person is still disabled and could use a regular stall, so is someone like myself who is on crutches. I did use the HC stall when it was available but if it wasn't I used the regular stalls. It was difficult but it can be done.

I stated that someone in a wheelchair 'can' use a regular stall but with extreme difficulties. That is why the accommodation is there, so they won't have to deal with those difficulties. Are you telling me that if someone in a wheelchair came into a toilet room without a HC stall they are shit out of luck? They would use the toilet that is there. It won't be easy or pretty but it can be done.

[Manda JO]

Actually, I would pretty much let anyone who asked politely cut ahead in a restroom line. It's such an odd thing to do, and something thing I think 99% of people would only do in severe distress, that I can't imagine saying no.

[Hero From Sector 7G]

I once got reprimanded for using a handicap stall. There was no line and it was the only empty when I entered. Upon exit there was a grumpy person in a wheelchair that scolded me for using that stall.

So I'm a little bitter. In truth, I'd let a handicap person cut in line. But those stalls aren't set aside for them only. I'll poop where I please damnit.

Edit: Good crap I hate it when my life mirrors Larry David

[Hakuna Matata]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

Actually, I would pretty much let anyone who asked politely cut ahead in a restroom line. It's such an odd thing to do, and something thing I think 99% of people would only do in severe distress, that I can't imagine saying no.

Yep, that's me too. I figure if you ask me, then you gotta go and go really bad! So if anyone asked--sure go ahead!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Yes, I would let a diasabled person go first, but there's a difference bewteen disabled and merely having a temporary injury.

[SciFiSam]

Originally Posted by Hakuna Matata

There are LOTS of disabled people with LOTS of different disabilities. I was one just awhile back when I was on crutches for six months with a broken hip. Trust me I totally understand the issues involved. For example a deaf or a blind person is still disabled and could use a regular stall, so is someone like myself who is on crutches. I did use the HC stall when it was available but if it wasn't I used the regular stalls. It was difficult but it can be done.

I stated that someone in a wheelchair 'can' use a regular stall but with extreme difficulties. That is why the accommodation is there, so they won't have to deal with those difficulties. Are you telling me that if someone in a wheelchair came into a toilet room without a HC stall they are shit out of luck? They would use the toilet that is there. It won't be easy or pretty but it can be done.

I know there are lots of different types of disabilities - please note that I didn't say all disabled people are physically incapable of using regular stalls.

And yeah, if the entrance is too narrow, the stall too small, or the stairs too many - and all these factors are common - then someone in a wheelchair is not going to be able to use the regular toilets. Ye canna change the laws of physics, cap'n.

[Little Edie]

I voted yes, but I'd have a hard time resenting anyone who didn't let them go ahead of them. For all I know, the seemingly able-bodied woman up ahead is pregnant and needs to pee really bad, or has arthritis and needs the higher toilet seat.

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by SciFiSam

They're not 'toilets for disabled people but only if the able-bodied people feel like letting them use it.'

They're also not 'toilets reserved for disabled people so they don't have to wait like everybody else.'

[sugar and spice]

When I was 15 I my broke my arm at the elbow and wore a sling for maybe 2 months. No cast (there was an operation with pins and screws) but basically I was down to one arm for a while. I don't remember ever needing the handicapped stall, I seriously don't think it even occurred to me. If fact I remember reading previous handicapped stall threads and thinking to myself "Wow, aren't I lucky that I've never been in that situation!" So yeah, unless this is a large shoulder brace with metal rods sticking out, it would not occur to me that someone with an arm cast would need or want to use the handicapped stall. If they asked then sure (and yeah, if anyone asks then I'm probably not going to question them) but I don't think someone's a jerk because they don't automatically assume the guy with the arm cast needs special accommodation.

[vix]

If I'm next in line and the handicapped stall opens up, and I see a person behind me (within three or four people), who appears to need it, I'd ask them if they wanted to go next. This would include a mom with a couple small kids and/or a stroller.

[SciFiSam]

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak

They're also not 'toilets reserved for disabled people so they don't have to wait like everybody else.'

Yeah, in the US, as I've now discovered. In the UK that's exactly what they are, and it's not just being nice to the poor ickle cripples, it's because some disabilities cause incontinence problems and some cause pain while standing, so those people do have good reasons for jumping the queue.

I'm surprised it's the US which is crap in this regard compared to the UK - I thought you lot'd be better.

[Pai325]

It's hard to say. Some handicaps are not visible. What about the person with a colostomy bag who is having problems? You can't see her disability, but should someone with a visible disability go in front of her? As people wave the other person to go first, does she have to speak up and say she is disabled, too, and explain her medical history? What about the person who has IBS or Crohn's who may not need the larger stall, but needs to get into some stall ASAP? It's not that disabled people shouldn't go first, but as with handicapped license plates, you can't tell by looking.