Is it unethical for an able bodied individual* to use the handicap stall if the regular stall is available? what if the regular stall is not available?
I don’t know if this is the acceptable terminology and I appologize if it is not. I tried in earnest to think of the least offensive labels but had to settle on handicap stall because it is a universally (at least within my small universe) recognized term. “Able bodied” certainly seems archaic but I couldn’t bring myself to use the term “non-disabled.” Sorry if I’ve offended.
My sister is handicapped, and I’m pretty fierce about non-handicapped people using handicapped parking spaces, etc. However, I think bathroom stalls are a different matter. Unless you’re planning on camping in there for 20 minutes to hours, there’s really no reason not to use it (unless you see a handicapped person waiting in line to go to the bathroom in which case you might want to make sure they can get in there).
I use the handicapped stall all the time. When there is no one around waiting to go, and appears to be zero chance that a handicapped person is going to need to go pee in the next 2 minutes, I see no reason not to. Also, when you have a long line of people waiting to go (and none of them are handicapped) and you have a limited amount of stalls (let’s say 6, including the handicapped one), what sense does it make to leave that handicapped stall unused while people are squirming, waiting in line? If a handicapped person appears and needs to use it, by all means, make way for them to use it. But until that happens, it makes no sense to leave it there, unused.
I do have an ironic story about the handicapped stall, though. My sister and I were driving through Yosemite National Park (what? me in Yosemite? No! ;)) and she needed to go. We stopped at a public restroom that was not often used (where you turn up to go to Badger Pass, on Highway 41). Just so it’s clear, whenever we use this restroom, it’s almost always empty. Anyway, we walk in and this lady was in the handicapped stall (and why wouldn’t she? There’s usually no one else using that restroom!). She comes out and sees my sister waiting there, using her walker to stand up. The lady looked a little abashed, but my sister was not upset. She only had to wait a minute—if that—so it was no big deal.
Why would it be unethical? The point about facilities for the disabled is that their should be facilities that the disabled can use; not that there should be facilities for the exclusive use of the disabled.
If I’m bringing a small child to the toilet, I will always use the disabled toilet, if there is one available. More space, plus the handbasin is likely to be a little lower. 'Course, I wouldn’t muscle in ahead of a disabled person wanting to use it.
I agree with yosemite about parking spaces for the disabled, where the considerations are quite different. Hell is not hot enough, nor eternity long enough, for those who leave their cars in a disabled space when they can use the regular spaces.
Some restroom stalls are so small that it’s virtually impossible to get inside them and then shut the door without straddling over the toilet, like the ones where I work. I typically use the handicapped stall when I go at work because it’s big enough to actually get in and close the door without having to back up over the toilet.
We currently have no handicapped people in the building, so nobody’s getting deprived. If we did though, there is no reason that the handicapped person couldn’t wait a minute or two in line like the rest of us do for the stall to become available.
I think if the regular stall is available and usable, then it is wrong to use the handicapped stall if you have no reason to need to use the larger stall. But a handicapped stall isn’t handicapped only, so if there is no alternative then a fully able person should feel no qualms in using it.
A related question, do people feel bad about using single occupant restrooms of the opposite sex when their own designated restroom is unavailable?
Well, at my office there is one person who works here in a wheelchair, and he’s a boy, so I use the handicap stall with gay abandon.
However, in other locations, I’ll never choose it first. If there’s a line up, and no handicap people in sight, I’ll use the handicap stall. No sense in it sitting there empty, and I’m not going to be in there for very long anyway.
I used to think this way too, until I learned (here on the SDMB) that yes, sometimes a handicapped person CAN’T wait. Sometimes there are bladder control issues along with the mobility problem.
So now I use the handicapped stall only if the place is virtually deserted.
I should point out that sometimes the apparently non handicapped can’t wait either. General rule of etiquette, if you are at the front of the line and can wait let the person behind with their legs tied in a knot of contortion go first.
I generally won’t use the handicapped stall if a regular one is available, but if there’s nobody actually waiting to use it, I don’t see a problem with it.
A few years ago, I went to a casino to audition for a dealing job, and after my audition, I went to use the bathroom, and there was a lady in a wheelchair who had a problem. See, the “handicapped” stall was too narrow for her to get her chair in, get alongside the commode, turn facing the front of the stall and get onto the damn toilet. I tried to help her get situated, but we quickly discovered that the only feasible way for her to get onto the throne was for her to wheel into the stall, stand up leaning onto the grab-bar while I took the wheelchair away, then appropriately seat herself. I waited for her to do her business, then pushed the chair back into the stall for her when she was done.
Note to businesses- if you are going to have handicapped stalls in the bathroom, make sure they are large enough for the handicapped to, you know, use.
When I was in school, I usually did. Why? Because I usually had a coat and a backpack with me, and have you tried to use a regular stall, where the door closes in, with all that crap? Most of the doors didn’t even have coat hooks. Again, I was never in there a long time, and if I say someone who clearly needed it in line before me, obviously I’ll let them use it.
At my current job, I work in a hospital. Since there are lots of people in a hospital who might need to use the handicapped stall, I always use the regular one at work.
I’d be inclined to tell the manager his or her handicapped bathroom doesn’t function as a handicapped bathroom. That way it can be fixed so handicapped people in standard sized wheelchairs can use the bathroom - as the law requires.
I’ve always felt bad when I’ve had to use it (like my turn at the head of a loooong line where women are staring at you menacingly if you dilly-dally), so I’ve wondered what the answer to this question would be for other people. Even when there’s no one around, I still try not to use it for fear that someone who truly needs it will come along at. any. given. second. I feel to awful no matter what if I do, necessary or otherwise. I do agree though that some regular stalls are not only ill equipped but downright impossible to maneuver. catsix described it perfectly. And although I’d rather not when I’ve got a lot of crap (hahaha) with me, I’ll tend to go in those regardless.
About using the opposite sex’s restroom if you REALLY gotta go (dying after a long trip, 14 gallons of Coke, millions at a concert stadium, etc.) and someone has apparently set up camp in the one designated for you, then I see absolutely no problem with it. It’s just a toilet after all and no one else is in there but you. What’s the big deal? I mean, if a guy came out of ours, I wouldn’t be fazed in the slightest. I’d only wonder if he’d left a number.
To my mind this is not a clear cut issue. If there is a regular stall available, it’s pretty clear; use it and leave the handicapped stall free. If there is no regular stall available it depends on how bad I have to go. I can’t see fouling my pants because a handicapped person might show up while I’m in there, but if I can hold it, I would wait.
I work with disabled people. There is no ethical breech in using the handicapped stall unless (obviously) you are intentionally preventing a disabled person from using it. In my experience, very few, if any, people with disabilities would get very upset about waiting for a non-disabled person to use the stall except in the very rare instance (which I’ve never seen) of a non-disabled person who is a.) aware that a disabled person needs that stall, b.) there is another stall available and c.) chooses to use it anyway.
So the short answer is that as long as your not being a deliberate asshole and unnecessarily cockblocking a person who needs that stall, you’re on on ok ethical ground.
I’ve seen situations like the one Yosemite described where a disabled person rolls into the can and there’s somebody already in the “handicrapper.” They generally don’t take any sort of offense (although they might show the normal irritation that anyone would show at having to wait to use the john). They’re usually not idiots, after all. They know that the person in there couldn’t have predicted that an actual person in a wheelchair would roll into the bathroom at the precise minute they were seated on the handicapped throne.
Are not bathroom stalls handicap accessible, not reserved? Parking spots are reserved. Bathroom stalls are for everybody, some are just designed to make it easier for the handicapped to use. Since it a bathroom stall they would only have to wait a few minutes extra.
As an Architect I design bathrooms for ‘x’ number of people and depending upon the use, ‘y’ of those stalls are designated as handicap stalls. We don’t design for ‘x’ number and throw in an extra one or two as a HC stall. The ADA is intended to provide reasonable accommodations for the disabled–not exclusive right to use that stall. This reasonable accommodation is a good goal and one I am proud to say I follow in my practice.
Now parking stalls are totally different—as has been pointed out in this thread. They are provided specifically for the use because of their proximity to entrances, etc.
By the reasoning of some of the folks in this thread I am assuming that they don’t use a uni-sex toilet at a small restaurant at all! I mean you go in there and it has grab bars and all the same manuevering room as a HC stall—what if you came out of the uni-sex bath and there was someone in a wheelchair waiting? How is it any different in a public restroom. The reason that uni-sex toilet room has those grab bars, etc is to meet the ADA–providing a reasonable accommodation–that unisex toilet isn’t there for the exclusive use of someone in a wheelchair–it is intended for all users of that restaurant.
I think Dio hit it on the head–as long as you aren’t being a jerk and knocking someone over to get into the HC stall you should give yourself a break and not feel too guilty over it.
As far as the opposite sex restrooms goes, it is common at many gay bars for guys to use the female restroom. Many localities have laws which regulate the types of bathrooms that must be provided even if the clientele is overwhelmingly male. I don’t find it weird.
In reply to the thread’s title, my answer is no. If there is a line-up outside a disabled toilet and you notice a disabled person in the line the disabled person should be able to cut to the front of the line though.
Often there might be lines, sometimes big lines (particularly with women’s toilets) and it might be very rare for a disabled person who truly needs the disabled toilet (i.e. they’re in a wheelchair or something) to come along. So I think it’s stupid for a toilet to just be vacant while others might have to wait up to maybe 15+ minutes to use a toilet. Like I said, disabled people should be able to cut to the front of a disabled person’s line.
Disabled parking is different though, since disabled people would need a convient spot, and they can’t wait around for the person to leave. In the case of disabled toilets, they can wait - unless they are also incontinent. But most incontinent people in public probably aren’t disabled (in a wheelchair, etc). They’d have to wait in line, and those lines could be shorter if ordinary people could share disabled toilets, assuming there aren’t any disabled people around.
