Obama announces candidacy

[Try2B Comprehensive]

I'm surprised to be the first to have a crack at this.

Obama has my vote at this point. I'm kind of fond of him really. Let me be clear: it is fully possible that I would vote against Obama, should a better candidate appear. Let me strain to be as clear as possible: from the POV of this amateur philosopher, today's GOP is such a suckfest that I expect their nomination process to be nothing short of a laff riot. I am not expecting a viable candidate, let alone a superior one.

Maybe the GOP is saving all their ammo for 2016. They have a lot of discipline and that would actually make sense; wait until they have a chance. Every single member of the GOP appears a bald-faced liar in the wake of Scott Walker's fiasco in Wisconsin, let alone their relentless pandering to absurdities unnumbered. Another four years to work on their credibility would do them good. Frankly I think it will take them at least eight, very possibly more.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive

Maybe the GOP is saving all their ammo for 2016.

Their results in the midterms would suggest otherwise. I think the GOP will be in a difficult position in 2012 and I think you've highlighted the biggest problem, which is the candidates. (The economy also appears to be getting on track.) They may have losers but they'll make an effort to win. The election is still a year and a half away and a lot of things can happen, so it would be stupid not to make the effort. You can't save a candidate that long. Some people thought they threw the 2008 election and that was equally implausible.

their relentless pandering to absurdities unnumbered.

Primaries and general elections are different things, but that hasn't necessarily hurt them to this point. They've had some luck getting absurdities on the table as options.

[Ca3799]

At this point, I expect to vote for Obama as well. I voted for him last time and unless I see someone who strikes me as smarter and more reasonable run, I will vote for him again.

The more serious minded Republican candidates who are considering a run right now aren't impressing me much, and the nuttier ones are downright scary. Our country has far too many big and complicated problems that need attention for me to consider any but the most sober candidate.

[Little Nemo]

I'm disappointed in Obama. But none of the current likely Republican nominees look better. So at this point Obama is my personal front-runner.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Their results in the midterms would suggest otherwise. I think the GOP will be in a difficult position in 2012 and I think you've highlighted the biggest problem, which is the candidates. (The economy also appears to be getting on track.)

Also, if the current budget bruhaha ends in a shutdown, there's no way they'll be able to deflect blame for it. Not after the teevee shows clip after clip of hardcore GOP freshmen taking credit for the shutdown to cheering peanut galleries of Tea-Aide drinkers.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Steve MB

Also, if the current budget bruhaha ends in a shutdown, there's no way they'll be able to deflect blame for it.

Probably. But when it's voting time, will people care about a potential shutdown in early 2011? Will some of them feel it was worth it if it brings about spending cuts? And will they remember how upset they were about the Wisconsin thing? If Obama makes those into campaign issues, it'll help him, but there's no guarantee that's what will be on people's minds in summer and fall 2012.

[typoink]

I'll almost certainly vote for Obama. Not opposed to Republicans on principle, but I hate the vibe of the party lately.

I broadly like Obama; he's smart, articulate, and seems to favor intelligent, thoughtful solutions.

[Try2B Comprehensive]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Their results in the midterms would suggest otherwise. I think the GOP will be in a difficult position in 2012 and I think you've highlighted the biggest problem, which is the candidates.

Well thanks. I'm really not categorically opposed to the GOP. However, they have pretty much sucked my entire adult life, and 2012 is no different. Worse actually.

Primaries and general elections are different things, but that hasn't necessarily hurt them to this point. They've had some luck getting absurdities on the table as options.

True. But I think it gives Obama so much ammo that he will mow down any GOP candidate with ease.

[Try2B Comprehensive]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Probably. But when it's voting time, will people care about a potential shutdown in early 2011? Will some of them feel it was worth it if it brings about spending cuts? And will they remember how upset they were about the Wisconsin thing? If Obama makes those into campaign issues, it'll help him, but there's no guarantee that's what will be on people's minds in summer and fall 2012.

I was listening to Rachel Maddow tonight... you wouldn't believe some of the riders the GOP has put on the budget bill. It's really no wonder there is no compromise possible. Things like limiting Obama's powers as commander in chief, gutting the EPA such that coal dust cannot be declared hazardous, making it impossible to shut down Gitmo... they've really pulled out the stupid. Americans have short attention spans, but these things will define them for some.

[aruvqan]

I swear it is getting bad enough that I am thinking of unregistering as a republican and reregistering independant or democrat. [normally I don't care, but I am getting ashamed of confessing to be a registered republican]

This is getting ridiculously stupid. There is so much dog in a manger/passive aggressive bullshit going on that they are fucking the governments ability to function on a day to day basis. Supposedly our government was designed to function despite short term idiocy in the members [which is why we have short terms for various types of representatives and a term limit on the president]

[Skammer]

I've been pretty disappointed with Obama, but I don't see anyone I'm more likely to vote for. He's certainly not going to get a serious challenge from the left.

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive

True. But I think it gives Obama so much ammo that he will mow down any GOP candidate with ease.

Hm. Another candidate, maybe. Obama? When has he, in his entire tenure, used any ammunition at his disposal?

Don't get me wrong. I'm going to pull the lever for Obama, and believe he will somewhat handily beat whichever Tea Party sycophant the Republicans ultimately nominate, but I'm confident it won't be because of anything Obama actually does.

By the way, I won't be so much voting for Obama as voting against the crazy.

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by Skammer

I've been pretty disappointed with Obama, but I don't see anyone I'm more likely to vote for. He's certainly not going to get a serious challenge from the left.

He won't get any challenge from the left. Why do folks believe this is a possibility? What Democrat challenged Clinton's second term? What Republican challenged Bush-the-Lesser's second term?

[Ca3799]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

I swear it is getting bad enough that I am thinking of unregistering as a republican and reregistering independant or democrat.

This is exactly what happened to me.. in 2006. I was just raising my tiny flag to let the the Republicans know I was unhappy with the way they were handling things and they were losing my support. Now I am actively ashamed of many of them- the pandering, manipulation, misrepresentation by some of them ... it's just shameful and I can't support it.

[Try2B Comprehensive]

So funny this is coming up.

I've been registered Independent for 20 years. But I've realized that I actually am opposed to the GOP. I won't vote for their candidates again- they've blown it. I am going to change my registration to Democratic (mostly so I can caucus), and hope for maybe a lefty 3rd or 4th party to pull a little more in that direction.

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

There is so much dog in a manger/passive aggressive bullshit going on that they are fucking the governments ability to function on a day to day basis.

A wild and crazy enough guy might even get the impression that that's what they want.

[aruvqan]

Originally Posted by Onomatopoeia

Hm. Another candidate, maybe. Obama? When has he, in his entire tenure, used any ammunition at his disposal?

Don't get me wrong. I'm going to pull the lever for Obama, and believe he will somewhat handily beat whichever Tea Party sycophant the Republicans ultimately nominate, but I'm confident it won't be because of anything Obama actually does.

By the way, I won't be so much voting for Obama as voting against the crazy.

Voting against the crazy is a perfect way of thinking about it.

Originally Posted by Ca3799

This is exactly what happened to me.. in 2006. I was just raising my tiny flag to let the the Republicans know I was unhappy with the way they were handling things and they were losing my support. Now I am actively ashamed of many of them- the pandering, manipulation, misrepresentation by some of them ... it's just shameful and I can't support it.

Yes, exactly. I really have not been happy with the republicans since the first Bush. Not that I liked Clinton either, mind you.

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive

So funny this is coming up.

I've been registered Independent for 20 years. But I've realized that I actually am opposed to the GOP. I won't vote for their candidates again- they've blown it. I am going to change my registration to Democratic (mostly so I can caucus), and hope for maybe a lefty 3rd or 4th party to pull a little more in that direction.

I never blindly voted the party line, I have always researched the candidates and issues and voted my mind.

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

I never blindly voted the party line, I have always researched the candidates and issues and voted my mind.

I have never blindly voted the party line; I have always researched the candidates and issues and voted Democrat.

[foolsguinea]

I've never been really good at deep research into politics. I voted GOP because that was the power in my district--until they nominated W Bush for what I thought were stupid & offensive reasons.

I look at the GOP now & I can't countenance going back. W was a warmonger & fiscal loony, but at least he wasn't a racist; most GOP pols I can't even grant that. They're warmongers, fiscal loonies, and play the nativist. So turns out that I like the guy I left the party rather than vote for better than the party. Imagine that.

[Try2B Comprehensive]

It is still true that things could change before November '12. At his next State of the Union, Obama could roll his eyes up into his head and scream a barking mad rant of crazy predictions about the coming apocalypse in 2012, punctuated only by the repeated vomiting of nails, broken glass and barbed wire. Then, why it would be time to take a close look at the independents.

But not the GOP. Because that is actually a pretty good description of my image of the GOP right now, possessed as they are by the various Mammons of their billionaire and corporate sponsors, sacrificing their children (we constituents) in some moronic religious trance.

I wonder if these guys are even capable of intellectual honesty anymore. Global warming doesn't exist- really? Obama's birth certificate isn't valid- really? We can't raise taxes on the rich because we need to cut funding for planned parenthood, NPR, and, oh, all of public education- really? The military budget can't be cut, not even the shit that the goddamn fucking Pentagon itself says should be cut- really!?!?!?!?

There isn't a fucking end to their incompetence, duplicity, and steaming heaps of horseshit! Whomever is dragging their balls across Boehner's face ought to slap him with them

[Try2B Comprehensive]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

I never blindly voted the party line, I have always researched the candidates and issues and voted my mind.

Thing is, I don't think any real evaluation of GOP candidates is possible anymore, post Citizens United and now post Walker (not that these are the only two factors, far from it). We aren't allowed to know who is funding candidates- which goes for both parties of course but I think we're seeing where the biggest bullshit manouvers are coming from. And Walker has made it clear that GOP candidates know the public would not vote for them if they were upfront about their agenda. And so they hide it and you won't find out what it is until after they take office. Surprise! They want to run Wisconsin on behalf of and for the benefit of the Koch brothers, and gut the teachers' union to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations.

This isn't something the public has been asking of their representatives. Clearly the GOP has no intention of representing the interests of a vast majority of Americans. On the contrary, their intention is to remove any and all protections for the general public so that the wealthy can screw them as much as possible, via hijacking the government. Under the circumstances it just doesn't matter what a GOP candidate says anymore. One of them could present the perfect dream agenda, and once elected it'll be, "Gee, I really should have mentioned this, but our penultimate goal is the repeal of the 14th amendment."

Energy and the environment are the perfect example to illustrate this. DID YOU KNOW: if you factor in the methane released from the fracing process and add that to the greenhouse gasses produced by burning natural gas, the total greenhouse gas emissions of frac gas is worse than that of coal? That's right, the energy source the Republican's would have us base our energy future on is dirtier than coal. How do they deal with it? By lying and misleading of course. They stress that it is "clean burning", which is true and yet a lie by omission. Then they gut the EPA, arrange for fracing to be exempt from the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act, and make it illegal for measurements of the air around frac mines to be measured. If nobody knows, what's the big deal right? There's money to be made. Then they trumpet that natural gas is cheaper than wind power- only because they extract it in an unacceptable (but cheap!) way, and are trying to tie the country to it before the alternatives become clearly cheaper in all cases. Lock 'em out and tie us to the option that benefits their sponsors, that's their Plan for America.

So it appears that a world which becomes uninabitable they day after these guys die is okay with them.

Sorry, it isn't that I intend to vote party-line democrat. It is that the GOP is our enemy and will never, ever get another one of my votes. Not even for oily-pelican catcher.