censoring language on TV

[scamartistry]

I find this ridiculous, everyone knows exactly what "ugly" word is being used. Even if you are 10 years old, you are probably familiar with the word "fuck" etc...It's WORDS that people use

Who benefits from this?

[DrFidelius]

Bluenoses and Mrs. Grundys will write nasty letters to their congresscritters if they feel that television is trying to corrupt the children.

OR -- just because these are words that some people use, there is no reason for them to be heard in my living room. Unless I just dropped something heavy on my foot. Or broke something. Or if it's funny.

[Omar Little]

Because, I don't want my 4 year old, or my 10 year old for that matter, repeating "fuck".

If you came into my house and my family was present, or if you were in a family restaurant seated at the table next to me and my family and spoke like that, I would walk up to you and ask you to please watch your language, since my children were present.

[janeslogin]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

Because, I don't want my 4 year old, or my 10 year old for that matter, repeating "fuck".

If you came into my house and my family was present, or if you were in a family restaurant seated at the table next to me and my family and spoke like that, I would walk up to you and ask you to please watch your language, since my children were present.

But your 4 year old and your 10 year old don't learn ''fuck'' from the TV or persons in your home or persons i a restaurant. They learn it the same place we all did, from their peers.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by scamartistry

I find this ridiculous, everyone knows exactly what "ugly" word is being used. Even if you are 10 years old, you are probably familiar with the word "fuck" etc...It's WORDS that people use

Who benefits from this?

I do. Swearing is way overused in movies, especially comedies, and too much of it takes me out of the experience. I've even walked out of movies because of the swearing: Knocked Up, I'm looking at you...

IMHO, Independence Day is a better movie on TNT precisely because the swearing is removed.

I even wish that many DVD's would come with a "family friendly" option with the swearing removed - the above-mentioned ID4 is a perfect candidate for such an option. There is not a single thing swearing adds to that movie.

And I say this as somebody who swears. Frequently. I even do it on this board.

[Locrian]

There are times when it IS necessary in movies AND in TV shows. For Snakes On A Plane, Sam Jackson's famous "motherfucking snakes" line drew the biggest cheers in a silly movie. Recently I worked on "True Justice" a new show with Steven Seagal. This show actually had cops say, "If you can't hold your mud, you can't be on our team!"

Hold your mud? Does anyone believe a cop would ever say this in any language? They could have said hold your CRAP, not necessarily "shit".

Also recently on News Radio in L.A., they spoke with a teacher who is against censorship in songs, TV, movies, etc. (Sorry I can't remember who or what organization.) She made some very good points. In writing classes, it doesn't bother her if a kid writes a story with bad language if it helps the reader understand the character. As far as songs go, kids know the lyrics from 100 different sources.

I also remember when the Phillies won in 2008 (WHOOO!). At the parade, Chase Utley came to the mike and said, "World champions. World fucking champions!" It was not censored on any station. The shock and/or the fact it was a sports parade let everyone pause too long to hit the censor button. Not many were upset by this. If your kid is old enough to know what a bad word is, then they are old enough to know that no one, not any grown up, will take them seriously if they curse.

[robardin]

Sometimes the dubs are funnier than the dialogue with curses. By far. Forget you, man! Cheese and onions!

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by JohnT

IMHO, Independence Day is a better movie on TNT precisely because the swearing is removed.

Huh. I think there are a lot of things overused and gratuitous in that movie, but swearing's near the bottom of the list.

[kunilou]

Originally Posted by scamartistry

Who benefits from this?

For the most part, it's the sponsor who benefits from it. Sponsors, as a rule, want the viewing audience to be in a receptive mood when a commercial comes on, not having the parent cover junior's ears while the teenage daughter is saying "what's wrong with 'fuck'? Everyone I know says 'fuck'." While the family argues, they're missing the commercial.

[joebuck20]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

Huh. I think there are a lot of things overused and gratuitous in that movie, but swearing's near the bottom of the list.

Yeah, I was going to say, is there even much swearing in "Independence Day"?

Anyway these days, whenever they beep something out, it often seems like little more than a formality, so as not to get fined by the FCC. Half the time they don't even do a good job of censoring the word, and you can distinctly hear, say, the f and the k sounds.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by robardin

Sometimes the dubs are funnier than the dialogue with curses. By far.

Yippy-kay-ay, Mr. Falcon.

[Simplicio]

Originally Posted by joebuck20

Yeah, I was going to say, is there even much swearing in "Independence Day"?

Anyway these days, whenever they beep something out, it often seems like little more than a formality, so as not to get fined by the FCC. Half the time they don't even do a good job of censoring the word, and you can distinctly hear, say, the f and the k sounds.

FCC fines are only for broadcast TV though. And yet most cable channels also censor language, at least before 10pm or so. So I don't think fear of FCC fines are the main driver.

I imagine its done because viewers that, rightly or wrongly, are uncomfortable watching TV with swear words with their children in the room outnumber those that are annoyed by the bleeping.

[Baker]

I remember when "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was on network TV.

There's a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing "Merde, merde, merde!!" At the theater the subtitles said "Shit, shit, shit!!" On network TV it was "Damn, damn, damn" but you could clearly hear Napoleon's voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out.

What? They think we don't know and language but English?

[Baker]

The only known film footage of the first plane to hit the WTC was taken by a French film crew who were with a local firehouse. They'd been filming a documentary all summer, about the training of a firefighter.

As the plane hits you hear the firefighters, in shock and horror, say things like "Holy shit! What was that?" or "What the fuck is going on?"

When this footage was to be aired, years later, as part of a program on the destruction of the WTC, there were protests from some groups about the language, how it should be dubbed out.

Now, I don't like profanity at all, but the language those guys were using was not casual cussing, but part of an honest reaction to the unbelievable. To alter it would be changing an important historical record.

[JohnT]

There's enough swearing in ID4 to earn it a "5" in the profanity index at www.kids-in-mind.com and to get the film a PG-13 rating upon release. Now it obviously wasn't in the same realm as Knocked Up or Pulp Fiction (both of which received a "10" rating), but when you pull out the DVD to show this movie to your kid, the swears come pretty regularly.

[Farmer Jane]

Originally Posted by JohnT

There's enough swearing in ID4 to earn it a "5" in the profanity index at www.kids-in-mind.com and to get the film a PG-13 rating upon release. Now it obviously wasn't in the same realm as Knocked Up or Pulp Fiction (both of which received a "10" rating), but when you pull out the DVD to show this movie to your kid, the swears come pretty regularly.

What did they say? "Damn"?



Sometimes I'm in a network TV mood and sometimes I'm in a cable TV mood. If network TV starts swearing, then what? In five years we'll be watching vampire porn! (okay, maybe that's kind of harsh, but cable has a reputation for a reason.)

[Farmer Jane]

Originally Posted by JohnT

There's enough swearing in ID4 to earn it a "5" in the profanity index at www.kids-in-mind.com and to get the film a PG-13 rating upon release. Now it obviously wasn't in the same realm as Knocked Up or Pulp Fiction (both of which received a "10" rating), but when you pull out the DVD to show this movie to your kid, the swears come pretty regularly.

it says:

PROFANITY 5 - One mouthed F-word, some mild obscenities, anatomical references and scatological references. [profanity glossary]

Hmm...not convinced it's the same as network TV dropping whatever it is they're dropping.

I'd be more worried about nekkidz.

[JohnT]

It also sez...

A CAVEAT: We've gone through several editorial changes since we started covering films in 1992 and some of our early standards were not as stringent as they are now. We therefore need to revisit many older reviews, especially those written prior to 1998 or so; please keep this in mind if you're consulting a review from that period. While we plan to revisit and correct older reviews our resources are limited and it is a slow, time-consuming process.

The film earned a PG-13 for some reason, and it wasn't just for the 30 seconds they showed inside a strip club. (the film earned a "2" for sex and nudity on the same site, so I don't think it was much nekkidness).

Anyway, I'm not going to watch the movie again to prove it one way or the other, so I'll just concede the point.

[Locrian]

Originally Posted by Baker

I remember when "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was on network TV.

There's a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing "Merde, merde, merde!!" At the theater the subtitles said "Shit, shit, shit!!" On network TV it was "Damn, damn, damn" but you could clearly hear Napoleon's voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out.

What? They think we don't know and language but English?

HA! I actually worked on a reformat of the "edited" subtitles years ago! We were all laughing at the office saying the same thing you were.

But of course, us subtitlers need to be familiar with certain foreign words-- especially curse words-- to alert the client if they want the foreign audio changed. Let me assure you right now that NO client, out of hundreds and hundreds I've worked with, EVER wants to spend the time and money to send in a voice actor and redo it. NEVER!

I really don't think TV censroring helps with shielding your kids from curse words. There's YouTube, MySpace, South Park Studios, Urban Dictionary, Free Porn Sites, the classmate with the R-rated DVD collection, etc.

There's also alternate curses that people use. Like "effing". When they hear that, you'll have to find a way to explain why they're saying effing, and don't lie to them and say they mean "fluffy" or "Ferdinand" or something.

[JohnT]

I'm not worried about shielding my kids from swearing, I just want some"place" we can go w/o being inundated by it. I'm thrilled that there is swearing on Youtube, but that doesn't mean I want it being broadcast into my home on the TV.

[Markxxx]

I really don't see why this is such an issue. There is a time and a place for everything and that includes bad words. But there is also a place for show with NO bad words.

I have no problem with setting aside a block of time with, so called "safe" programming and allowing mature programming at other times.

It's really not that big of a compromise. I happen to be a big fan of innuendo and I am also a huge fan of OTR. They always manage to get a LOT across without profanity.

Look at the great movies of the 40s about WWII. Now come on, realistically you're not gonna have a bunch of Marines or other military persons without a massive amount of swearing. Yet it doesn't appear in the movies of those times. But the movies are so well written you really don't miss it.

Unrealistic yes, marines would be cussing up a storm, but it shows that language isn't going to make a bad film good and lack of it, isn't going make a good film too unrealistic to watch.

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by JohnT

I do. Swearing is way overused in movies, especially comedies, and too much of it takes me out of the experience. I've even walked out of movies because of the swearing: Knocked Up, I'm looking at you...

I did the same with White Men Can't Jump, for the same reason. The sheer volume of profanity just overwhelmed the story.

Actually, I ejected the DVD in the middle, but, otherwise, same thing...

[Locrian]

Originally Posted by JohnT

I'm not worried about shielding my kids from swearing, I just want some"place" we can go w/o being inundated by it. I'm thrilled that there is swearing on Youtube, but that doesn't mean I want it being broadcast into my home on the TV.

The swearing on YouTube IS being broadcast into your home. Just don't log on. If TV is offensive, change the channel.

Don't get me wrong. There's a time and place for it in entertainment. Being unemployed, I am a big fan of Phineas & Ferb (especially Perry the Platypus) and iCarly. Both shows are innovative, new outlooks and hilarious. And there's plenty of sitcoms and dramas that don't swear, although they have mature content (L&O SVU) and the sits have sexual innuendos.

Since both parents started working more regularly, it's important to actually look up the shows the kids are into and you have to watch an episode or two to make the best decision. That's the bead news. Television, movies, internet give us more work.

Years ago, I saw The Lion King in the theater and when Scar and Mufasa went up the cliff, ONE smart mom took her five year old (a guess) for a bathroom/concessions break. Scar kills Mufasa and Simba cries. So did half of the young audience The mom & kid missed all that, the crying too. I asked the mom later, "How'd you know where that part was?" She said another mom told her, described the scene and plans were made in advance.

That IS a lot of work to me, especially from a movie from a family company like Disney, but at least you can search the Internet now, a lot easier than hoping for a helpful neighbor.

[JohnT]

Since both parents started working more regularly, it's important to actually look up the shows the kids are into and you have to watch an episode or two to make the best decision.

One doesn't follow from the other - if both parents work more regularly (which I'm reading as "both parents work more"), then they have less time to look up the shows the kids are watching.

Therefore, knowing that a general rule exists that "from 8-10pm swearing will be eliminated or kept to a bare minimum on the major networks" is far preferable, especially given the fact that we parents are working more.

[scamartistry]

Originally Posted by JohnT

I do. Swearing is way overused in movies, especially comedies, and too much of it takes me out of the experience. I've even walked out of movies because of the swearing: Knocked Up, I'm looking at you...

IMHO, Independence Day is a better movie on TNT precisely because the swearing is removed.

I even wish that many DVD's would come with a "family friendly" option with the swearing removed - the above-mentioned ID4 is a perfect candidate for such an option. There is not a single thing swearing adds to that movie.

And I say this as somebody who swears. Frequently. I even do it on this board.

wow.....So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this?

[fumster]

Originally Posted by Baker

I remember when "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was on network TV.

There's a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing "Merde, merde, merde!!" At the theater the subtitles said "Shit, shit, shit!!" On network TV it was "Damn, damn, damn" but you could clearly hear Napoleon's voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out.

What? They think we don't know and language but English?

See threads on crudité and carafe for an answer.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by scamartistry

wow.....So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this?

Religion may or may not play into it. Taboo words exist in just about every culture. For instance, in the current U.S. culture, the n-word is considered taboo, and religion has nothing to do with it. A lot of people who would have no problem with "fuck" would have a huge problem with "nigger". And there's nothing wrong with that. It's human nature.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by scamartistry

wow.....So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea.

That was my reaction as well .
But if people like John T exist who enjoy watching melonfarmers give people the flipper, I guess we should accommodate the fuckers.

Originally Posted by Baker

I remember when "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was on network TV.

There's a scene in the bowling alley, Napoleon has fallen on his face and is swearing "Merde, merde, merde!!" At the theater the subtitles said "Shit, shit, shit!!" On network TV it was "Damn, damn, damn" but you could clearly hear Napoleon's voice, using the profanity. No apparent attempt to blot it out.

What? They think we don't know any language but English?

They probably do. Seriously. Foreign swearing is one of many, many ways American show writers get to sneak stuff in under the censors' radar. Either it's because the censors themselves don't speak foreign, or they do but figure Americans are stupid and don't know foreign swearwords, I do not know for certain.
But I'd put my money on the latter: Terry Pratchett once said, commenting on how his books were being somewhat dumbed down for the American public, that he never set out to nor assumed that public was stupid - but his American publishers did, and asked him for rewrites.

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

That was my reaction as well .
But if people like John T exist who enjoy watching melonfarmers give people the flipper, I guess we should accommodate the fuckers.



They probably do. Seriously. Foreign swearing is one of many, many ways American show writers get to sneak stuff in under the censors' radar. Either it's because the censors themselves don't speak foreign, or they do but figure Americans are stupid and don't know foreign swearwords, I do not know for certain.
But I'd put my money on the latter: Terry Pratchett once said, commenting on how his books were being somewhat dumbed down for the American public, that he never set out to nor assumed that public was stupid - but his American publishers did, and asked him for rewrites.

You seem to think that censors have a personal stake in this. They don't. A few Christian or family-oriented channels will want to maintain the right image, but for other networks, the worry is not that viewers will be offended and change the channel, but that sponsors or the FCC will object, resulting in lost revenue or fines. (The reason, obviously, is that sponsors and the FCC are far more sensitive than the average viewer because they typically--or always in the case of the FCC--respond to complaints by unhappy viewers, not to concerns about what the majority of viewers or the "average" viewer thinks.)

If in the past "merde" has been said on TV without garnering complaints by sponsors or the FCC, the network censors don't really care why. They don't care if people are too dumb to be offended or too smart to be offended or if they are offended and complain, but the sponsors ad the FCC are ok with it. As long as they avoid loss of revenue and unintended controversy, they're fine with whatever you want to "sneak by" them.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by scamartistry

wow.....So people like you really DO exist, I had no idea. Exactly what about swearing bothers you? Is there some religious thing i should read into this?

Only if you want to. Or maybe you could read a maturity thing, or a "people are different from me" thing, or whatever "thing" you care to.

The fact is, most people over the age of 25 don't live in a world where people swear an average of once every 3 minutes, yet a typical comedy that contains 30 "fucks" and "shits" and etc, does. It's jarring, takes one out of the movie, and, as I said, rarely adds anything to it. Knocked Up was particularly bad at this sort of thing, a movie apparently written by people who think that professionals talk like college students.

[Locrian]

Originally Posted by JohnT

One doesn't follow from the other - if both parents work more regularly (which I'm reading as "both parents work more"), then they have less time to look up the shows the kids are watching.

Therefore, knowing that a general rule exists that "from 8-10pm swearing will be eliminated or kept to a bare minimum on the major networks" is far preferable, especially given the fact that we parents are working more.

Certain channels do exactly that, so I'd stick with those like Disney, Nick, Family Channel, etc. You won't have to worry about swearing OR innuendos. Major networks like ABC, NBC, CBS won't have swearing, but they have adult situations and innuendos.

As far as both parents working more, I meant both parents have 9 to 5ers. They have less time to look it up or watch an episode? Too bad. If you think your kids learn swearing entirely from a television show or channel, you HAVE to find the time.

What's offensive to one family may not be to another. Specifics matter. Hanna Montana is considered family entertainment to many, but I've met many people who say Hanna dresses too "slutty", so no Hanna for them.

[JohnT]

As I said, my kid doesn't need to hear swearing on TV to learn the words: all she has to do is what kids from time immemorial did... listen to dad. Or get it from their friends.

[Yookeroo]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

Because, I don't want my 4 year old, or my 10 year old for that matter, repeating "fuck".

Originally Posted by janeslogin

But your 4 year old and your 10 year old don't learn ''fuck'' from the TV or persons in your home or persons i a restaurant. They learn it the same place we all did, from their peers.

True enough. But another option is not letting your kid watch shows with all the "bad" language.

Originally Posted by Simplicio

FCC fines are only for broadcast TV though. And yet most cable channels also censor language, at least before 10pm or so. So I don't think fear of FCC fines are the main driver.

No, it's advertisers.

It's pretty embarrassing that we censor* as much as we do. We're like a nation of 6-year-olds sometimes. And we coddle our kids way too much.

[Alan Smithee]

A few weeks ago, I noticed an ad on Comedy Central for the movie "Your Highness," which had the word "fuck" in it. I suddenly realized how weird it is that more advertising hasn't tried to bend these rules. Most advertisers want to avoid controversy, but some like it. I'd think using nudity or bad language would be a great way to generate buzz for something aimed at young people. That's obviously what they did in this case.

It also made em wonder whether this was the first time it's been done. I don't watch that much tv these days, so this might not be the first. Have any other ads done this? he closest I can come up with is the Volkswagon ad showing a woman in an accident who started to say the word "shit" but it changed into the tagline "Safe happens." Brilliant, that ad was.

[Magiver]

Originally Posted by Locrian

The swearing on YouTube IS being broadcast into your home. Just don't log on. If TV is offensive, change the channel.

You tube is not broadcast into people's homes. You don't understand the meaning of the word. Broadcast stations are licensed to transmit over the air.

If TV is not offensive enough for you then swear during the shows.

[Shakes]

I don't get it either.

One of the great things about Syfy's BSG was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word "fuck" and turned it in to "Frak" (Sp?).

Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by "fuck" then they should absolutely be offended by "Frak" because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they're offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe.

[Sandwich]

Originally Posted by Shakes

I don't get it either.

One of the great things about Syfy's BSG was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word "fuck" and turned it in to "Frak" (Sp?).

Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by "fuck" then they should absolutely be offended by "Frak" because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they're offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe.

Compare and contrast with all the people (in this very thread) who have some sort of problem that the word "fuck" isn't inserted regularly into every TV show on every channel. It doesn't change the meaning to use a euphemism, often it didn't actually contribute to the meaning anyway, but was just punctuation. And yet, the idea that a typical TV channel might choose not to broadcast the word during the day is some sort of outrage.

[Amasia]

Originally Posted by Shakes

I don't get it either.

One of the great things about Syfy's BSG was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word "fuck" and turned it in to "Frak" (Sp?).

Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by "fuck" then they should absolutely be offended by "Frak" because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they're offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe.

Really? You don't get it? Hint: It's not the x number of letters arranged in a certain way that make up a word; it's the social value and meaning attached to it. This is something that pretty much every 14 year old discovers and triumphantly declares to their parents.

"Frak" means nothing to most people, outside of the BSG context. Obviously "fuck" has a social meaning. There's nothing intrinsically offensive/non-offensive about one or the other.

I'm not particularly offended by "fuck" but I also realize that it can have a crude connotation and that many people are offended, so I don't use it without consideration of others.

If you don't watch network TV, how is this ever something you even run into, btw?

[Shakes]

Originally Posted by Amasia

Really? You don't get it? Hint: It's not the x number of letters arranged in a certain way that make up a word; it's the social value and meaning attached to it. This is something that pretty much every 14 year old discovers and triumphantly declares to their parents.

I'm not sure I'm getting you here. Are you saying at 14, children start swearing in front of their parents? If that's what you're saying, I disagree.

"Frak" means nothing to most people, outside of the BSG context. Obviously "fuck" has a social meaning. There's nothing intrinsically offensive/non-offensive about one or the other.

I'm not particularly offended by "fuck" but I also realize that it can have a crude connotation and that many people are offended, so I don't use it without consideration of others.

If you don't watch network TV, how is this ever something you even run into, btw?

People who didn't whatch BSG would obviously be off the radar. I'm saying that the people who did watch the show had to know that frak and fuck are the same thing. Hence, they both should have the same social stigma by default.

Even an avid 14yo fan of the show would know what a "Mother Fraker" is.

The OP was talking about censorship on TV. If you're talking about using the word (fuck) in regular social interactions; I'm on board with you.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Louis CK has a bit about "the n-word" and his objection to it, that when you say "n-word" your audience has to translate it in their head into the word "nigger," so you're forcing the audience to say in their head the word that you're unwilling to say yourself. It's a good point, and I feel that way about a lot of censoring: if you beep out a word, then I automatically spend some time trying to figure out what word would have been beeped out, and say a string of profanity in my head until I hit on the right word. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

That said, in The Stuff of Thought, Steven Pinker references some research showing that (IIRC) the amygdala shows a spike when someone hears a swear word from their native language, a spike generally associated with negative feelings. Swearing apparently causes negative feelings in the heads of the audience, which isn't necessarily a nice thing to do.

Originally Posted by JohnT

The fact is, most people over the age of 25 don't live in a world where people swear an average of once every 3 minutes

You know what? I also don't live in a world in which adultery is committed once every 41 minutes, or in which mobsters kill someone I know once every couple of weeks, or in which robots attack once every 22 minutes, or in which gunslingers have a shootout in the street once every 82 minutes. I live in a world in which students chat when they're not supposed to once every 30 minutes, and papers are turned in once an hour, and electronic bells ring four times a day. I watch shows to see things that DON'T happen in my life. I live my own life. It doesn't remotely jar me out of the experience to watch or hear something that doesn't reflect my own experience--if it did, there would be no television show or movie that I could watch.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Shakes

I don't get it either.

One of the great things about Syfy's BSG was the unintended social experiment that came with the show. They famously took the word "fuck" and turned it in to "Frak" (Sp?).

Nobody, as far as I know, had a problem with this. If certain parties are offended by "fuck" then they should absolutely be offended by "Frak" because both words mean the exact same thing! Unless they're offended by the phonetic sound of fuck. Which just seems too bizarre to believe.

The original BSG used "feldercarb" for shit. Like a character said he was in deep feldercarb. So credit Larson for that one.
Not that this was new. Norman Mailer used "fug" for fuck in The Naked and the Dead, needing to put some sense of reality in his military dialog while not being allowed to. (This was maybe the first instance of "band name!" coming true.)
Which is the main argument against censorship, I think. Like the half bed sheet that women use, or the twin beds in old TV series, banning four-letter words everywhere ruins the reality of lots of shows.
I also suspect that there would be less of it if it weren't censored.
When I started to subscribe to The New Yorker, "dirty words" were banned. They now appear, with no loss of artistic or cultural value.

[Blaster Master]

I don't really understand all the fuss over language in shows. Sure, I think it's overdone, one of my mottoes is that cursing is a crutch for a poor vocabulary, but that's for people who seem to use cursing to modify everything they say.

However, that doesn't preclude the fact that it is something you we hear in every day life, and in films and movies depicting certain aspects of the human condition, it's a necessary part of that. There are some characters and situations in film that simply make more sense with it, like the aforementioned famous line of "Yippee-kay-yay, mother fucker."

In other situations, as another motto of mine goes, sometimes fuck is the only word. Like someone else mentioned upthread of the film crew who saw the plane hit the WTC, a response of "gee willikers" doesn't cut it, but "Holy shit!" does. Even if I'm watching something that doesn't cover an aspect of humanity where cursing is rampant, if there's a situation where cursing is appropriate, I don't want them to skirt around it afraid to offend someone, I want them to be authentic or it ruins my immersion. Sure, some of the dubbed over things are hilarious, but it's hilarious precisely because of how jarringly out of place it is.


And the idea that you don't want to hear it in your livingroom, I can understand that, but I don't think censoring for everyone is the right way to go. If you don't want your 4yo to hear a curse word, I'm left wondering why a 4yo is watching something where cursing fits. I'd think seeing a movie that has cursing in it probably has a lot more stuff that's a lot more objectionable to a 4yo than cursing like, I dunno, violence and sex. Would anyone here seriously contend that Pulp Fiction, or another movie with excessive swearing, would suddenly become appropriate for a child if all the profanity is censored out?

All that needs to be done is have people rate the language and other content and then let parents and individuals watch or not watch whatever they want, or even get a device that can block that stuff. Hell, hasn't that more or less been done for years now with the v-chip? They already do HD and non-HD versions of channels, would it be that difficult to implement a censored and uncensored version of the audio?

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

That said, in The Stuff of Thought, Steven Pinker references some research showing that (IIRC) the amygdala shows a spike when someone hears a swear word from their native language, a spike generally associated with negative feelings. Swearing apparently causes negative feelings in the heads of the audience, which isn't necessarily a nice thing to do.

Also from that book (which was very interesting, by the way), he talks about how swear words and other kinds of taboo words exist in every language and every culture, and how it relates to human nature.

[villa]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Therefore, knowing that a general rule exists that "from 8-10pm swearing will be eliminated or kept to a bare minimum on the major networks" is far preferable, especially given the fact that we parents are working more.

It's the double standard that bugs me - I watched From Dusk Till Dawn on a regular channel (Fox I believe) and the violence was untouched - heads getting chopped off etc. But they couldn't allow the bar to be called the Titty Twister - instead it was the City Twister.

Violence (especially violence without consequences such as the A Team) is something I would want my son to see far less than hearing the odd curse word.

[scamartistry]

This censoring business , is it a worldwide phenomenon?

I don't think I've seen it outside the US, at least not to to that ridiculous extent, Where a lot of shows are completely unwatchable. I actually find censoring of movies offensive and very hard to understand as a phenomenon.

[Locrian]

Originally Posted by Magiver

You tube is not broadcast into people's homes. You don't understand the meaning of the word. Broadcast stations are licensed to transmit over the air.

If TV is not offensive enough for you then swear during the shows.

You're thinking of broadcast network licenses. I'm talking about broadcast physically-- like just now, turned on my computer, clicked my YouTube link, it's coming through the air, it's broadcast. And just like TV, some clips (channels) are offensive, some are not.

I don't understand your second sentence.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by Locrian

You're thinking of broadcast network licenses. I'm talking about broadcast physically-- like just now, turned on my computer, clicked my YouTube link, it's coming through the air, it's broadcast. And just like TV, some clips (channels) are offensive, some are not.

Broadcast historically refers to sending a single program to a lot of folks simultaneously, and I think that's a useful meaning to maintain. A broadcast program is distinguished from a requested program because for a broadcast is sent at the whim (or market research) of the producer/distributor, whereas a requested program is sent at the whim of the consumer. Especially when you're talking about things like censorship, this difference is highly relevant. A broadcaster presumably has greater responsibility to ensure that a program is inoffensive than does the producer of a program that must be specifically requested.

[control-z]

Some people are just offended by crude language. It's probably also so toddlers won't go around saying "fuck" and "shit" all day.

But really with the way they have the networks rate TV shows these days for violence and language, you'd think you could just say anything you want on TV now as long as you're ok with the "L" for language tag. This site details the ratings that every show seems to have in the USA: http://www.tvguidelines.org/ratings.htm